S & J Engines in Spokane, WA

>


The STP is what saved you.
All STP is/was (used to be) is a can of ZDDP and a calcium based anti-wear additive (CRS) and some viscosity improvers to make it look thick (high viscous - thixotropic) for marketing.


Matt [/quote]
Matt,

Sooo...STP is no longer a "can of ZDDP"? So, what is it?, and would it work as a cam break-in lub?



--
Larry :)
78 Royale w/500 Caddy
Menomonie, WI.
 
> > The STP is what saved you.
> > All STP is/was (used to be) is a can of ZDDP and a calcium based anti-wear additive (CRS) and some viscosity improvers to make it look thick (high viscous - thixotropic) for marketing.
> > Matt
>
> Matt,
>
> Sooo...STP is no longer a "can of ZDDP"? So, what is it?, and would it work as a cam break-in lub?

Larry,

I wish I could give you a solid answer there, but I have not seen a laboratory analysis in at least a dozen years. I am not even sure that the old STP is still available. So many products have been discontinued.

Dewalt doesn't sell radial arm saws anymore and Ridgid sells saws..... Who'da Thunk??

If I were replacing a flat follower cam, I would ask the vendor what is the recommended product.

Matt
--
Matt & Mary Colie
'73 Glacier 23 Chaumière (say show-me-air) Just about as stock as you will find
SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit
 
We used to use Marvel Mystery Oil as breakin lube on flat motors.  Worked fine.
 
--johnny
 
'76 23' transmode norris
'76 palm beach

From: Larry
To: gmclist
Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2012 9:35 AM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] S & J Engines in Spokane, WA

>

The STP is what saved you. 
All STP is/was (used to be) is a can of ZDDP and a calcium based anti-wear additive (CRS) and some viscosity improvers to make it look thick (high viscous - thixotropic) for marketing.

Matt  [/quote]
Matt,

Sooo...STP is no longer a "can of ZDDP"?  So, what is it?, and would it work as a cam break-in lub?

--
Larry  :)
78 Royale w/500 Caddy
Menomonie, WI.
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> In the last 40 yrs or so, I've replaced lots of cams in rebuilds or just upgrading to a HP cam with headers....etc. Until I met this group, I never did a cam break-in....never heard of it. I'd start the motor and just let it idle for 20 minutes or so and look for leaks, loose belts, etc. Never had a cam failure. In every case I used STP on the cam and lifters during assembly...I wonder if that had anything to do with it. Maybe with today's oils (low ZDDP counts) it is more critical...or maybe I might be just lucky.

[/quote]
In the day I think even Mondello recomended using a mix of STP and Torco oil for the bearings and the cam. At least that is the way I built engines with no problems.
--
Roy Keen
Minden,NV
76 X Glenbrook
 
Jim,

What about long term use of Moly in the engine - Good / Bad / Hype?
.

Greg H.

I don't just march to the beat of my own drum - I have an entire brass band
to keep me company.

.
----- Original Message -----
From: "James Hupy"
To:
Sent: Sunday, January 29, 2012 12:30
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] S & J Engines in Spokane, WA

> There are other similar
> products on the market, most with MOS as the principal ingredient.
> Molybedunum Disulphide or some derivitive of it. Comes under the trade
> name
> of MolySlip, MolyKote, and several others. Good stuff for cam and lifter
> break in. A number of engine assembly lubes also contain the stuff.
 
I have seen engine oil additives that are advertised as containing M2SO4
and similar compounds, that the manufacturer claimed were for continous use
in internal combustion engines. I personally only have used it for break-in
additive and the instructions that I followed were to do the flat tappet
cam & lifter break in, and then to drain the oil and change the filter.
I have used molykote lubricants in differentials and manual transmissions
for many years. To my damaged hearing, the gear whine was noticeably
quieter with it than not. I do not know what it might do to a catastrophic
converter or other emission equipment, including O2 sensors. As it is a
heavy metal compound, I suspect that it might have some health effects as
well. I would advise to use it at your own discretion.
Jim Hupy
Salem, OR
78 GMC Royale 403

On Tue, Jan 31, 2012 at 2:34 PM, Greg and April
wrote:

> Jim,
>
> What about long term use of Moly in the engine - Good / Bad / Hype?
> .
>
> Greg H.
>
> I don't just march to the beat of my own drum - I have an entire brass band
> to keep me company.
>
> .
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "James Hupy"
> To:
> Sent: Sunday, January 29, 2012 12:30
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] S & J Engines in Spokane, WA
>
>
> > There are other similar
> > products on the market, most with MOS as the principal ingredient.
> > Molybedunum Disulphide or some derivitive of it. Comes under the trade
> > name
> > of MolySlip, MolyKote, and several others. Good stuff for cam and lifter
> > break in. A number of engine assembly lubes also contain the stuff.
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
 
> Jim,
>
> What about long term use of Moly in the engine - Good / Bad / Hype?
>
> Greg H.

Greg,

If by Moly, you are meaning MoS2, it is great in SI engines. Not so good in diesels because the carbon particulate in the oil attacks the MoS2 molecules.

If using it in an engine, you must establish a good break in before introducing the MoS2 or the engine may never completely seat critical components like piston rings.

Why isn't it used more?
Because it is extremely expensive when compared to any other anti-wear additive.

Does it work?
I have been using a colloidal suspension (particles so small that they won't ever settle out of the liquid) for over forty years. It was the only reason that some of my race engines survived at all. I have about a dozen of my personal vehicles that went way past TBO without any engine work. Like the car in my garage right now. It is the race version of something that looks like a gen1 Neon (called a AlCR). I was told to expect the engine to go about 60K. If I got past that it would certainly self destruct between there and 80K. Well, it has a hydraulic lash adjuster going bad. It still doesn't use enough oil to matter between changes. It still rarely gets over 33MPG (in all honesty, if it wasn't fun to drive, it could do a lot better). At 172k, (some time next month) it will be in my shop for another lube service and I am getting kind of tired of having it around after thirteen years.

Matt
--
Matt & Mary Colie
'73 Glacier 23 Chaumière (say show-me-air) Just about as stock as you will find
SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit
 
What do you consider a "good break in period"?
.

Greg H.

I don't just march to the beat of my own drum - I have an entire brass band
to keep me company.

.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Matt Colie"
To:
Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2012 17:04
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] S & J Engines in Spokane, WA

If using it in an engine, you must establish a good break in before
introducing the MoS2 or the engine may never completely seat critical
components like piston rings.
 
Engines that have been remanufactured generally break in quite quickly. In
my personal experience, they seem to develop more power, in passenger car
usage, after 5000 miles. That would equate to about 100 engine hours of
operating time at 50 mph. Other people will have other experience.
Generally speaking, the cylinders need to be well filled with air fuel
mixture to generate sufficient pressures in the cylinders as well as normal
loads on the bearings. Many people recommend short periods of wide open
throttle (with a nervous eye on oil pressure and temperature) to aid in
break in. On engines that I am going to use, I drive 'em like I am going to
use them, but I balloon foot the accelerator for the first 5000 miles or
so, and gradually work the engine harder and harder. You will probably get
many opinions on this subject.
Jim Hupy
Salem, OR
78 GMC Royale 403

On Tue, Jan 31, 2012 at 4:28 PM, Greg and April
wrote:

> What do you consider a "good break in period"?
> .
>
> Greg H.
>
> I don't just march to the beat of my own drum - I have an entire brass band
> to keep me company.
>
> .
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Matt Colie"
> To:
> Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2012 17:04
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] S & J Engines in Spokane, WA
>
>
>
> If using it in an engine, you must establish a good break in before
> introducing the MoS2 or the engine may never completely seat critical
> components like piston rings.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
 
Which is fine by me, as that alows me to get a better idea of what is good
and what is not.
.

Greg H.

I don't just march to the beat of my own drum - I have an entire brass band
to keep me company.

.
----- Original Message -----
From: "James Hupy"
To:
Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2012 17:53
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] S & J Engines in Spokane, WA

> You will probably get
> many opinions on this subject.
> Jim Hupy
> Salem, OR
> 78 GMC Royale 403
>
 
The flat motors would usually seat the rings in five or six hours - chrome cylinders took substantially longer, and some chromes never seated the rings.  This on the airplane, after a 30 minute initial run - in on a test stand with a test club fitted.  The seating is indicated by a drop in oil temp.  Once they're seated, we told the owners, treat it how you like.  Remember though, the flat motor sees much harder duty in an airplane than the engine in a road vehicle.  It's more analoguous to a boat engine.

 
--johnny
'76 23' transmode norris
'76 palm beach

________________________________
From: James Hupy
To: gmclist
Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2012 7:53 PM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] S & J Engines in Spokane, WA

Engines that have been remanufactured generally break in quite quickly. In
my personal experience, they seem to develop more power, in passenger car
usage, after 5000 miles. That would equate to about 100 engine hours of
operating time at 50 mph. Other people will have other experience.
Generally speaking, the cylinders need to be well filled with air fuel
mixture to generate sufficient pressures in the cylinders as well as normal
loads on the bearings. Many people recommend short periods of wide open
throttle (with a nervous eye on oil pressure and temperature) to aid in
break in. On engines that I am going to use, I drive 'em like I am going to
use them, but I balloon foot the accelerator for the first 5000 miles or
so, and gradually work the engine harder and harder. You will probably get
many opinions on this subject.
Jim Hupy
Salem, OR
78 GMC Royale 403

On Tue, Jan 31, 2012 at 4:28 PM, Greg and April
wrote:

> What do you consider a "good break in period"?
> .
>
> Greg H.
>
> I don't just march to the beat of my own drum - I have an entire brass band
> to keep me company.
>
> .
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Matt Colie"
> To:
> Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2012 17:04
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] S & J Engines in Spokane, WA
>
>
>
> If using it in an engine, you must establish a good break in before
> introducing the MoS2 or the engine may never completely seat critical
> components like piston rings.
>
>
>  _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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""Jim,

What about long term use of Moly in the engine - Good / Bad / Hype?
""

Not Jim, but a good moly oil is about the only additive that has merit as a long term additive for engines, final drives and manual transmissions.
--
Bob de Kruyff
78 Eleganza
Chandler, AZ
 
The question that I have then becomes, "What defines a *good* moly oil?" or
better yet "How do you tell a good moly oil from bad moly oil?" ( besides
the joke that good molly will stay out of trouble and a bad molly is
pregnant at 16 ).

Please don't mind the bad joke - the medication for my migraine started
kicking in about 40 min ago.
.

Greg H.

I don't just march to the beat of my own drum - I have an entire brass band
to keep me company.

.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob de Kruyff"
To:
Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2012 20:20
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] S & J Engines in Spokane, WA

>
>
> ""Jim,
>
> What about long term use of Moly in the engine - Good / Bad / Hype?
> ""
>
> Not Jim, but a good moly oil is about the only additive that has merit as
> a long term additive for engines, final drives and manual transmissions.
> --
> Bob de Kruyff
> 78 Eleganza
> Chandler, AZ
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
 
> What do you consider a "good break in period"?
>
> Greg H.

Greg,

This is very engine dependent. I always let the engine tell me. With modern passcar, it typically only takes 10~12 hours of mixed driving. An overhauled or re-man is anybody's bet but not usually very much different.

If the engine is not on an instrumented test stand (as in - any nominal person's situation), then just pay attention to idle quality, blow-by and oil consumption as those will be easily available indicators.

No, there isn't one thing you can point to that works for all situations.

Matt
--
Matt & Mary Colie
'73 Glacier 23 Chaumière (say show-me-air) Just about as stock as you will find
SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit
 
""The question that I have then becomes, "What defines a *good* moly oil?" or
better yet "How do you tell a good moly oil from bad moly oil?" ( besides
the joke that good molly will stay out of trouble and a bad molly is
pregnant at 16 ).

Please don't mind the bad joke - the medication for my migraine started
kicking in about 40 min ago.
""
Actually that was pretty good--I would stay on whatever the meds are :)

Years ago, moly was mostly available in large granular form and didn't pass through oil filters and also tended to settle in the medium it was packaged in. Now, that is a thing of the past assuming you purchase it for engine oil purposes. You can buy it as a supplement or in premixed 5 gallon jugs (you can find it on ebay). I buy the supplements to reduce shipping costs.
--
Bob de Kruyff
78 Eleganza
Chandler, AZ
 
Bob,

Is there one brand that stands ahead of the others or are they all about the
same?
.

Greg H.

I don't just march to the beat of my own drum - I have an entire brass band
to keep me company.

.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob de Kruyff"
To:
Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2012 7:58
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] S & J Engines in Spokane, WA

>
> Years ago, moly was mostly available in large granular form and didn't
> pass through oil filters and also tended to settle in the medium it was
> packaged in. Now, that is a thing of the past assuming you purchase it for
> engine oil purposes. You can buy it as a supplement or in premixed 5
> gallon jugs (you can find it on ebay). I buy the supplements to reduce
> shipping costs.
> --
> Bob de Kruyff
> 78 Eleganza
> Chandler, AZ
 
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