Ignition Switch

HI jim,
No Carb....EFI. I guess I should have better defined grinding. When hot, the starter turns over very slowly. You can hear it just almost stopping
when it hits compression. Sometimes after a couple of compression stops, it goes normal and spins at normal speed and engine starts. Has never
happened since high torque starter. Just my experience.

> Try rebuilding your Carburetor. Might put a lower temp thermostat, too. You
> are having heat soak, but it won't effect a starter in good shape with
> adequate cables. It does boil the fuel and flood the engine.
> Jim Hupy
> Salem, Oregon
>
> On Thu, Jan 2, 2020, 5:00 PM Larry via Gmclist

>
> > I've had troubles with "hot soak" starts. After a hot run in hot weather,
> > and stopping for fuel, the restart has always been a grinder. Tried
> > everything from parts house rebuilds to our local starter/motor rebuilder
> > with no success. Even went as far as building a sheet metal shield between
> > the exhaust manifold and the starter. It helped but didn't cure the issue.
> > I finally bit the bullet and got a "high Torque" starter off of eBay..
> > Starter with a high RPM, physically smaller starter with gear reduction.
> > Have had no hot start issues. JWID
> > --
> > Larry
> > 78 Royale w/500 Caddy
> > Menomonie, WI.
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > GMCnet mailing list
> > Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> > http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
> >
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
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--
Larry
78 Royale w/500 Caddy
Menomonie, WI.
 
Well, that changes things a bit. Sounds like what you describe is very
accurate. Slow crank is a bit different than normal cranking speed, just
too long to fire up. That pins it down to starter related issues. Sounds
like you properly diagnosed and solved the problem in your case. Those
small high speed starter motors first came into my sights on high
compression mopars. Particularly 383/440 high deck motors. Takes some
"grunt" to spin those things. Hemi's too.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Oregon

On Thu, Jan 2, 2020, 5:36 PM Larry via Gmclist
wrote:

> HI jim,
> No Carb....EFI. I guess I should have better defined grinding. When hot,
> the starter turns over very slowly. You can hear it just almost stopping
> when it hits compression. Sometimes after a couple of compression stops,
> it goes normal and spins at normal speed and engine starts. Has never
> happened since high torque starter. Just my experience.
>

> > Try rebuilding your Carburetor. Might put a lower temp thermostat, too.
> You
> > are having heat soak, but it won't effect a starter in good shape with
> > adequate cables. It does boil the fuel and flood the engine.
> > Jim Hupy
> > Salem, Oregon
> >
> > On Thu, Jan 2, 2020, 5:00 PM Larry via Gmclist

> >
> > > I've had troubles with "hot soak" starts. After a hot run in hot
> weather,
> > > and stopping for fuel, the restart has always been a grinder. Tried
> > > everything from parts house rebuilds to our local starter/motor
> rebuilder
> > > with no success. Even went as far as building a sheet metal shield
> between
> > > the exhaust manifold and the starter. It helped but didn't cure the
> issue.
> > > I finally bit the bullet and got a "high Torque" starter off of eBay..
> > > Starter with a high RPM, physically smaller starter with gear
> reduction.
> > > Have had no hot start issues. JWID
> > > --
> > > Larry
> > > 78 Royale w/500 Caddy
> > > Menomonie, WI.
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > GMCnet mailing list
> > > Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> > > http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > GMCnet mailing list
> > Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> > http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
> --
> Larry
> 78 Royale w/500 Caddy
> Menomonie, WI.
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
 
> Well, that changes things a bit. Sounds like what you describe is very
> accurate. Slow crank is a bit different than normal cranking speed, just
> too long to fire up. That pins it down to starter related issues. Sounds
> like you properly diagnosed and solved the problem in your case. Those
> small high speed starter motors first came into my sights on high
> compression mopars. Particularly 383/440 high deck motors. Takes some
> "grunt" to spin those things. Hemi's too.
> Jim Hupy
> Salem, Oregon

The other thing I like about the "high Torque" starter is the sound of it. Sounds like a new GMC Pick-Up. I do carry the old starter in case :roll:
--
Larry
78 Royale w/500 Caddy
Menomonie, WI.
 
Jim did not the early 426 Hemi engines use a direct drive truck starter? Later this transitioned to the geared starter off the other RB engines.

--johnny
--
Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
 
Yes, as did the generation 1 engines, the 331 and baby hemi, the De Soto
241. Drove one of those in a slingshot dragster for an owner that was a
great builder, had a big stack of money, but was not much on reaction time.
The 426 hemi 2nd gen, along with the wedge motor of the same displacement
used a reduction gearbox. They made a unique noise. Don't know what the
current crop of hemi's use. Come to think of it, the very early ones used 6
volts. They worked quite well when you applied 12 volts to them.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Oregon

On Sat, Jan 4, 2020, 7:21 AM Johnny Bridges via Gmclist <

> Jim did not the early 426 Hemi engines use a direct drive truck starter?
> Later this transitioned to the geared starter off the other RB engines.
>
> --johnny
> --
> Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
> Braselton, Ga.
> I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me
> in hell
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
 
I have a Chrysler marine hemi engine with rear waterproof dual point dist, chrome valve covers, chrome 4tube headers and 4 Stromburg carbs inline with
bellhousing cast on the block. Cubic inch and year unknown. It has a 24 volt starter that uses a series parallel switch like the one on my 79
Kenworth A model.

> Yes, as did the generation 1 engines, the 331 and baby hemi, the De Soto
> 241. Drove one of those in a slingshot dragster for an owner that was a
> great builder, had a big stack of money, but was not much on reaction time.
> The 426 hemi 2nd gen, along with the wedge motor of the same displacement
> used a reduction gearbox. They made a unique noise. Don't know what the
> current crop of hemi's use. Come to think of it, the very early ones used 6
> volts. They worked quite well when you applied 12 volts to them.
> Jim Hupy
> Salem, Oregon
>
> On Sat, Jan 4, 2020, 7:21 AM Johnny Bridges via Gmclist <

>
> > Jim did not the early 426 Hemi engines use a direct drive truck starter?
> > Later this transitioned to the geared starter off the other RB engines.
> >
> > --johnny
> > --
> > Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
> > Braselton, Ga.
> > I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me
> > in hell
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > GMCnet mailing list
> > Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> > http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
> >
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org

--
C. Boyd
76 Crestmont
East Tennessee
 
Early production engine, chrysler industrial engine. Thick wall casting.
Will stand a huge overbore. Made for Crusader, Mercury Marine, and lots of
industrial applications like water pumps and the like. Started out as a
"shared lube" engine. Engine and transmission shared the lube, as well as
the fluid clutch. Think "Fluid Drive" dodge and DeSoto in the 1950 -1952
era.
The shared lube idea went away very quickly as did the fluid clutch.
But, the overhanging bell housing remained. Don't know exactly when they
retooled and eliminated that feature. There are some guys that advertise in
Hot Rod magazine that feature early Hemi engines exclusively. They
specialize in 51 - 58 Chrysler, Dodge, and De Soto hemi's. Hot Heads
Research and Racing. Bob Walker is one of the guys. They are in Lowgap,
N.C.. google them at www.hothemiheads.com if you are interested in finding
out more than I know.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Oregon

On Sat, Jan 4, 2020, 9:01 AM Charles Boyd via Gmclist <

> I have a Chrysler marine hemi engine with rear waterproof dual point dist,
> chrome valve covers, chrome 4tube headers and 4 Stromburg carbs inline with
> bellhousing cast on the block. Cubic inch and year unknown. It has a 24
> volt starter that uses a series parallel switch like the one on my 79
> Kenworth A model.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

> > Yes, as did the generation 1 engines, the 331 and baby hemi, the De Soto
> > 241. Drove one of those in a slingshot dragster for an owner that was a
> > great builder, had a big stack of money, but was not much on reaction
> time.
> > The 426 hemi 2nd gen, along with the wedge motor of the same displacement
> > used a reduction gearbox. They made a unique noise. Don't know what the
> > current crop of hemi's use. Come to think of it, the very early ones
> used 6
> > volts. They worked quite well when you applied 12 volts to them.
> > Jim Hupy
> > Salem, Oregon
> >
> > On Sat, Jan 4, 2020, 7:21 AM Johnny Bridges via Gmclist <

> >
> > > Jim did not the early 426 Hemi engines use a direct drive truck
> starter?
> > > Later this transitioned to the geared starter off the other RB
> engines.
> > >
> > > --johnny
> > > --
> > > Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
> > > Braselton, Ga.
> > > I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer
> to me
> > > in hell
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > GMCnet mailing list
> > > Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> > > http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > GMCnet mailing list
> > Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> > http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
>
> --
> C. Boyd
> 76 Crestmont
> East Tennessee
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
 
Thank you Sir.

> Early production engine, chrysler industrial engine. Thick wall casting.
> Will stand a huge overbore. Made for Crusader, Mercury Marine, and lots of
> industrial applications like water pumps and the like. Started out as a
> "shared lube" engine. Engine and transmission shared the lube, as well as
> the fluid clutch. Think "Fluid Drive" dodge and DeSoto in the 1950 -1952
> era.
> The shared lube idea went away very quickly as did the fluid clutch.
> But, the overhanging bell housing remained. Don't know exactly when they
> retooled and eliminated that feature. There are some guys that advertise in
> Hot Rod magazine that feature early Hemi engines exclusively. They
> specialize in 51 - 58 Chrysler, Dodge, and De Soto hemi's. Hot Heads
> Research and Racing. Bob Walker is one of the guys. They are in Lowgap,
> N.C.. google them at www.hothemiheads.com if you are interested in finding
> out more than I know.
> Jim Hupy
> Salem, Oregon
>
> On Sat, Jan 4, 2020, 9:01 AM Charles Boyd via Gmclist <

>
> > I have a Chrysler marine hemi engine with rear waterproof dual point dist,
> > chrome valve covers, chrome 4tube headers and 4 Stromburg carbs inline with
> > bellhousing cast on the block. Cubic inch and year unknown. It has a 24
> > volt starter that uses a series parallel switch like the one on my 79
> > Kenworth A model.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >

> >> Yes, as did the generation 1 engines, the 331 and baby hemi, the De Soto
> >> 241. Drove one of those in a slingshot dragster for an owner that was a
> >> great builder, had a big stack of money, but was not much on reaction
> > time.
> >> The 426 hemi 2nd gen, along with the wedge motor of the same displacement
> >> used a reduction gearbox. They made a unique noise. Don't know what the
> >> current crop of hemi's use. Come to think of it, the very early ones
> > used 6
> >> volts. They worked quite well when you applied 12 volts to them.
> >> Jim Hupy
> >> Salem, Oregon
> >>

> >>
> >>> Jim did not the early 426 Hemi engines use a direct drive truck
> > starter?
> >>> Later this transitioned to the geared starter off the other RB
> > engines.
> >>>
> >>> --johnny
> >>> --
> >>> Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
> >>> Braselton, Ga.
> >>> I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer
> > to me
> >>> in hell
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> GMCnet mailing list
> >>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> >>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
> >>>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> GMCnet mailing list
> >> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> >> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
> >
> >
> > --
> > C. Boyd
> > 76 Crestmont
> > East Tennessee
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > GMCnet mailing list
> > Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> > http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
> >
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org

--
C. Boyd
76 Crestmont
East Tennessee
 
Well I got back to the coach today and the starter works as it should. It did not start out that way however. I had installed the starter and I was
just checking the wiring to see what was happening with that. Still had the 6.2 on the "wrong" wire and 12 volts and change on the cable but nothing
on the wire that should be firing up the starter. Bypassed the neutral safety switch and still nothing. Removed the start switch from the steering
column and used my leatherman to move it and voila the starter engaged. I bent the metal rod that engages the switch a bit and repositioned the start
switch on the steering column and all is well. Now the key acts as it should and returns when released. My next question is while I have the power
steering pump dislodged should I take it out and have it gone through also. I would rather do this while I'm into it than have issues later. I'm
taking the radiator out and taking it in to my radiator shop and having it done. Better now than later. Would I do better to start another thread
about the power steering pump and do they get rebuilt or replaced.

Once again thank you for all the help with this. I have worked an a lot of machines and this one is truly unique.

Melbo
--
Albuquerque NM Bus Conversion 1978 MCI 1973 GMC
 
> Well I got back to the coach today and the starter works as it should. It did not start out that way however. I had installed the starter and I
> was just checking the wiring to see what was happening with that. Still had the 6.2 on the "wrong" wire and 12 volts and change on the cable but
> nothing on the wire that should be firing up the starter. Bypassed the neutral safety switch and still nothing. Removed the start switch from the
> steering column and used my leatherman to move it and voila the starter engaged. I bent the metal rod that engages the switch a bit and
> repositioned the start switch on the steering column and all is well. Now the key acts as it should and returns when released. My next question is
> while I have the power steering pump dislodged should I take it out and have it gone through also. I would rather do this while I'm into it than
> have issues later. I'm taking the radiator out and taking it in to my radiator shop and having it done. Better now than later. Would I do better
> to start another thread about the power steering pump and do they get rebuilt or replaced.
>
> Once again thank you for all the help with this. I have worked an a lot of machines and this one is truly unique.
>
> Melbo

You will get better responses if you put each individual issue in a separate posting. I have never replaced a power steering pump and my radiator had
to be replaced due to damage.
Matt
--
Matt & Mary Colie - '73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan
OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit
 
Terry, that vid is from the same era as the 392 inch engine, no? Had "CHRYSLER FIRE POWER" stamped in the rocker covers. The Chrysler guys called
those 'double rocker' motors inhouse I'm told.

--johnny
--
Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
 
If the pump is not leaking or making noise, I would keep using it, and just
replace the filter on the hydraulic wiper motor. It looks like a 3” pipe
nipple on the motor, to which the hose from the pump attaches. The wiper
motor uses the residual pressure downstream of the steering gear box, and
if that filter clogs, it will starve the pump and reduce power steering
effectiveness. Or, replace all that with an electric wiper kit from Ken
Henderson.

Rebuilts may not be better than what you have now if it already works and
doesn’t leak.

Radiators may or may not be a problem, but what makes them hard to replace
is the frame they sit in. A popular mod is to cut that frame on both sides
of the radiator several inches above the bottom, and install hinges that
have removable pins over the cuts. That makes it easy to drop the radiator
if needed in the future, after you can assess the effectiveness of your
cooling system. Just pull the pins and the radiator comes out straight
down. Replacement radiators are not cheap, and the old tanks may not
support a recore.

(I thought I had pics of this mod online, but I don’t see them in my
albums. Someone else may have a pic handy.)

Rick “who installed an aluminum radiator when they were a bit less
expensive than now” Denney

On Sat, Jan 4, 2020 at 6:52 PM melmull--- via Gmclist <

> ... My next question is while I have the power
> steering pump dislodged should I take it out and have it gone through
> also. I would rather do this while I'm into it than have issues later. I'm
> taking the radiator out and taking it in to my radiator shop and having it
> done. Better now than later. Would I do better to start another thread
> about the power steering pump and do they get rebuilt or replaced.

--
'73 X-Glacier 230 "Jaws"
Northern Virginia
Offlist email: rick at rickdenney dot com
 
A note on the steering pump. Buy it with the reservoir. The reservoir is lightweight tin and the pump is a very tight fit in its O-ring. The
reservoir bends if you look at it. Pay someone else to bend in :)

--johnny
--
Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
 
While am this deep into it the radiator needs to come out and be gone through or replaced. The electric wiper kit is on the list with the hoses that
I need to order. Probably get the fan shroud too unless I want to be creative in the sheet metal shop. The PS pump is less than 60 dollars at NAPA so
it might be a good investment while I am playing. The radiator frame mod looks like a simple and effective way to remove the radiator if it becomes
necessary again (which of course I am hoping it won't). It just makes sense to replace 40 year old parts or have them checked before putting
everything back together again.

Thank you all once again for the advice and information.

Melbo
--
Albuquerque NM Bus Conversion 1978 MCI 1973 GMC
 
If you buy a replacement pump make sure you “rent” the pulley tool and
return your core after replacement as you will likely need to transfer the
pulley.

Sully
Bellevue wa

On Sun, Jan 5, 2020 at 4:13 PM melmull--- via Gmclist <

> While am this deep into it the radiator needs to come out and be gone
> through or replaced. The electric wiper kit is on the list with the hoses
> that
> I need to order. Probably get the fan shroud too unless I want to be
> creative in the sheet metal shop. The PS pump is less than 60 dollars at
> NAPA so
> it might be a good investment while I am playing. The radiator frame mod
> looks like a simple and effective way to remove the radiator if it becomes
> necessary again (which of course I am hoping it won't). It just makes
> sense to replace 40 year old parts or have them checked before putting
> everything back together again.
>
> Thank you all once again for the advice and information.
>
> Melbo
> --
> Albuquerque NM Bus Conversion 1978 MCI 1973 GMC
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
 
Make sure that the reservoir is the same or similar in shape, and
fittings. Some of the rebuild may come with metric threads and fitting and
the pump itself is used don a multitude of vehicles. You can swap the
reservoir putting your old one on.

J.R. Wright
GMC Great Laker
GMCGL Tech Editor
GMC Eastern States
GMCMHI
TZE Zone Restorations
78 Buskirk Custom 29.5' Stretch
75 Avion (Under going Frame up Restoration)

On Sun, Jan 5, 2020 at 5:30 PM Todd Sullivan via Gmclist <

> If you buy a replacement pump make sure you “rent” the pulley tool and
> return your core after replacement as you will likely need to transfer the
> pulley.
>
> Sully
> Bellevue wa
>
> On Sun, Jan 5, 2020 at 4:13 PM melmull--- via Gmclist <

>
> > While am this deep into it the radiator needs to come out and be gone
> > through or replaced. The electric wiper kit is on the list with the
> hoses
> > that
> > I need to order. Probably get the fan shroud too unless I want to be
> > creative in the sheet metal shop. The PS pump is less than 60 dollars at
> > NAPA so
> > it might be a good investment while I am playing. The radiator frame mod
> > looks like a simple and effective way to remove the radiator if it
> becomes
> > necessary again (which of course I am hoping it won't). It just makes
> > sense to replace 40 year old parts or have them checked before putting
> > everything back together again.
> >
> > Thank you all once again for the advice and information.
> >
> > Melbo
> > --
> > Albuquerque NM Bus Conversion 1978 MCI 1973 GMC
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > GMCnet mailing list
> > Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> > http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
> >
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
 
I'd admire to watch you swap the reservoir :) Mine was a stone bitch to get on without bending it beyond repair.

--johnny
--
Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
 
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