Converting to LiFePO4 batteries and Sailor Man's LiFePO4 Build

[sailor man]

I thought that you might like to see some progress on the mini split installation.
The bedroom mini split is mounted and I am piping and wiring it.

Just imagine what will happen when the roof mounted air conditioning unit is gone. There will be a very ugly hole in the overhead with an unpleasant looking rim material to deal with.

I intend to fit a 2’” old flat screen 12v dc in the hole that drops down when we are viewing in bed. When it is still up, it will be covered by a custom Cypress panel matching the cabinetry.

At least I am making progress getting rid of alternating current.I thought that you might like to see some progress on the mini split installation.

 

[74_Coach]

I am upgrading my 1976 Coach and have a completely different approach. Among all LiPO4 batteries, only one has a UL certificate. It is Lithionics, maunfactured in Clearwater, FL.
I am also upgrading by undertaking a complete energy conservation upgrade. As a result, I have (2) different batteries, one 13.6v and one 51.6v.
I have also remove the Onan 6000 generator and replaced it with a Firman inverter generator dual fuel (yes lpg too).
I am removing the highly inefficient rooftop ac units (one with resistance heating) (SEER 5.5-7) with (2) 12,000 btu Mini-split heat pumps (SEER 33).
I am replacing the inefficient stock 12v alternator with (2) Balmar alternators (12v & 48v).
With LiPO4 batteries allowing 100% withdrawal of power (Lead acid 50%), my enhanced electrical storage is 11.5 times the current capacity.
Electrical Hot water eliminated by replacing with lpg tankless hot water heater.
All glass is to be tinted with ceramic film (blocks 95% of solar ac load).

I can attest to “All glass is to be tinted with ceramic film”. I just completed the same film addition to all the windows and the rear bedroom is significantly cooler then before the tint. My tint guy also has a clear ceramic tint film for the windshield but he is not sure it will flex around the sharp curves.

 

[sailor man]

I have decided to use BattleBorn LiPO4 batteries instead of the Lithionics batteries. It is just way too difficult to deal with Lithionics through their distributers. In addition, it is much simpler to use batteries with internal BMS battery management systems.
BattleBorn also has their products ready to ship and ships for free.
They also have many different designs which make it easier to find a way to fit it into a GMC.
(3) 12v, 100AH batteries fit perfectly into the Ragusa aluminum battery pan.

 

[sailor man]

I have decided to use BattleBorn LiPO4 batteries instead of the Lithionics batteries. It is just way too difficult to deal with Lithionics through their distributers. In addition, it is much simpler to use batteries with internal BMS battery management systems.
BattleBorn also has their products ready to ship and ships for free.
They also have many different designs which make it easier to find a way to fit it into a GMC.
View attachment 6651(3) 12v, 100AH batteries fit perfectly into the Ragusa aluminum battery pan.

I an also fit (10) BattleBorn BBGC2 batteries under the front settee in (2) row of (5) batteries.

The (11) batteries connected in parallel provides 1100ah of 12vdc storage (13,200 kWh).


Since 100% of this stored power can be used. unlike the 50% of a lead acid or AGM battery, this is a substantial upgrade.

At 35 lb per battery, this massive battery bank is only 385 lb and the individual batteries are very easy to handle.

 

[sailor man]

I am installing (4) GC3 12dc 275ah batteries wired in series to provide a 48vdc 275ah battery bank to power the (2) YMGI 12,000 btuh mini split heat pumps mounted above the rear bumper. (2) of the batteries fir in the revised generator compartment next to the Firman 3042df generator on a custom slide out. Another (2) of these batteries willl be located under the bed in the rear.

Each battery weighs only 80.8lbs, so they can still be handled with reasonable effort unlike the normal lead acid battery it replaces. The total weight of the 48vdc battery bank is 323.2 lb.

The total weight of the battery banks, 708lbs is less than the normal 12vdc,m 200ah lead acid batteries and the Onan. 200ah original vs the 2,400 ah of this design. In addition, all 2,400ah can be used vs. the available 100ah of the lead acid battery installation. That is 24 times the original capacity with less weight. It is also about the capacity of (2) Tesla PowerWalls, which can now only be bought in conjunction with Tesla solar panels.

Since there are only (2) very efficient heat pumps attached to this massive battery bank, It also backs up
the 12vdc house & starting battery bank through MasterVolt 48v to 12v dc to dc converter.

The 48v battery bank can be charged via shore power or generator through a Victron MultiPlus II. charger/inverter. It can also be charged from the 12vdc battery bank through a 12vdc to 48vdc battery to battery charger.

Ince the solar array is charging the 12vdc battery bank, the 48vdc bank can be also indirectly charged by the solar array.

 

[sailor man]

One of the issues I have wrestled with is justifying purchasing a motorhome that I may use a maximum of 30 days a year and spending a lot of money to upgrade it. What good is it to have a motorhome and investment sitting next to house, uselessly, for 330 days.

How about using the solar energy collected during those 330 days, storing it in the onboard battery banks and powering the house. Solar energy without putting any collectors on the house’s roof.

Well, the 2 battery banks have Victron MultiPlex II that each can generate 30amps @ 120vac single phase. There is the solar panel array and the possibility of (2) paired Firman 3042DF generators. We live in a mandatory evacuation zone in the Tamp Bay area of Florida. We already have (2) paired Westinghouse i4500DF generator connected to (3) 110 gal lpg tanks.

Unfortunately, all these generators only provide 120vac single phase power, not the (2) phase 120/240 vac residential power we get from the grid.

Therefore, I am installing a Victron 100amp Autotransformer that converts 120v ac single phase into 120/240v (2) phase residential power similar to what we get from the grid.

The photo is of a 50amp shore power outlet normally located on a dock but will be mounted on the motorhome to transfer power to my house.

Thanks to highly efficient equipment and maximum energy conservation, my average 24hr electrical usage in July is 41.34kwh or 1.72 kWh per hour. During the warmish November, the average daily usage is 25.07kwh or 1.045 kWh per hour.

That means a very low current draw and the 200 amp, 120/240v service seems grossly excessive.

The 12v battery bank capacity is 13.2kwh and the 48v battery bank is also 13.2kwh for a total useable storage of 26.4kwh.

The battery bank certainly has enough capacity to handle the house without any addition solar power collection for 24 hours in November without any from the grid. Addling the amount of solar collection and/or some generator power for peaks, using the this GMC Motorhome design is close to getting my house of the grid, even though it is in a nearly completely off the grid.

Unfortunately, I only spent $1,511 in the last 12 months on electrical power from the grid. I can’t save enough money to justify solar panels on the roof. It is only my passion for being nearly carbon footprint free to convince me to do it.

My house is a 3 br, 2 1/2 bath, 1,732sf elevated house on a canal with a 1,350sf unheated and uncooled garage, storage and shop below. I am also charging a Chevy Volt plug in hybrid and a Ford CMax plug in hybrid and (2) sailboats with electric propulsion. We only spent $550 on gasoline last year, but we will spend more when this GMC Motorhome is put into service.

 

[sailor man]

This is the Indel Drawer 17 unit that can be used as a refrigerator or freezer. It is only powered by 12vdc. It has an additional accessory that can control the dc compressor speed to save energy and lower current draw. I have relocated the compressor from the rear to this location.
It will be used mainly to freeze and store ice.
The pink insulation will be fabricated into additional fitted panels to be laminated to rear, side, top and bottom of the unit to increase the insulation and further reduce its energy draw.
It is sitting on a custom maple wine rack destined to be stained and varnished to match the existing cypress cabinetry and will support the Drawer 17.

 

[sailor man]

It is temporarily in place. The matching Indel Stacked Refrigerator over Freezer, each with its own dc and ac compressor will be installed above. They will also have custom insulated panels laminated to the sides, rear and top to further reduce the energy use.

 

[sailor man]

View attachment 6655
It is temporarily in place. The matching Indel Stacked Refrigerator over Freezer, each with its own dc and ac compressor will be installed above. They will also have custom insulated panels laminated to the sides, rear and top to further reduce the energy use.

This is the Indel CR 195 Combi refrigerator/freezer that sits above the Indel Drawer 17. It has much greater capacity than the Norcold,etc and is brushed stainless steel. It runs on 12vdc and 120vac. The freezer and refrigerator have their own direct current compressors and I bought the individual Indel dc motor controllers which will reduce energy use. According to the manufacturer, the CR195 will use 680 watts in 24 hours without the controller.

 

[sailor man]

Perhaps you would like to know how I plan to wire and pipe the (2) YMGI 12,000 btuh mini splits. I am using BlueSea Cable Clam waterproof seals for both the refrigerant line and the wiring. This is for the unit on the driver’s side that cool and heats the bedroom.

 

[sailor man]

View attachment 6658
Perhaps you would like to know how I plan to wire and pipe the (2) YMGI 12,000 btuh mini splits. I am using BlueSea Cable Clam waterproof seals for both the refrigerant line and the wiring. This is for the unit on the driver’s side that cool and heats the bedroom.

This is the unit for the front of the coach. The BlueSea SMS waterproof circuit breaker box has (2) 30 amp, 48v breakers for the unit. It also has (2) 20 amp 48v breaker for (2) MasterVolt 48v to 12v dc to dc converters for back up house loads from the 48v battery bank.

 

[sailor man]

View attachment 6659
This is the unit for the front of the coach. The BlueSea SMS waterproof circuit breaker box has (2) 30 amp, 48v breakers for the unit. It also has (2) 20 amp 48v breaker for (2) MasterVolt 48v to 12v dc to dc converters for back up house loads from the 48v battery bank.

This is a pretty neat installation and allows either mini split to be shut down for servicing.

 

[sailor man]

This is what the current electrical power center looks like. I am upset that solid copper electrical cable has been used. A dynamic environment like a GMC Motorhome requires tinned strand wiring. Since I also have to add a 48vdc wiring system and I don’t need alternating current for (2) rooftop air conditioning units or the installed inverter, I have to severely alter this compartment.

 

[sailor man]

This is the new marine grade electrical panel I am assembling. The top section is a 120v ac panel that allows me to select either the 50amp shore power or (2) 30 amp generator feeds. It also allows me to export 120v to other loads.

The center panel has (6) 120vac for the microwave oven, Indel Freezer, Indel Refrigerator, toaster oven and ac outlets throughout the coach.

The lower panel is for 12v dc loads with (8) circuit breakers for various loads.

 

[sailor man]

This is how I plan to have this compartment organized.
The new electrical panels are mounted on the left and protrude into the adjacent closet. There are back panel covers to enclose the wiring and are only 3” deep.
On back is a Victron MultiPlex II inverter/charger connected to the 12v battery bank.
Underneath on the left side is a 12vdc fan to cool the compartment.
I would be pleased to answer any questions about what I have just posted. Comments both positive and negative are welcome.

 

[bdub]

I have decided to use BattleBorn LiPO4 batteries instead of the Lithionics batteries. It is just way too difficult to deal with Lithionics through their distributers. In addition, it is much simpler to use batteries with internal BMS battery management systems.
BattleBorn also has their products ready to ship and ships for free.
They also have many different designs which make it easier to find a way to fit it into a GMC.
View attachment 6651(3) 12v, 100AH batteries fit perfectly into the Ragusa aluminum battery pan.

What will you use for a starting battery?

 

[bdub]

BY the way, I apologize for the delay in getting you this additional information. On my way to Cliff Golby I had some chest pain and turned around and went to my local emergency room. I was adn=miited and a week later they have cleared my (3) blocked arteries and I have (6) new stents.

I guess when you are 80, you have to take yourself to shop much more often.

I am now in much better shape to continue with this project.

Glad you're in good shape. That could've been catastrophic!

 

[sailor man]

What will you use for a starting battery?a

Thank you for your question. When I was designing a system with Lithionics that issue never came up. All of their batteries were capable had a CCA or 625 cranking amps, so their batteries could be used both as a house battery and a starting battery. One series was designed as a drop in unit for automobiles with an internal BMS and would shut off if you drained off 90% of the capacity. However, with their Never Die feature, you could press a button on top of the battery to access the final 10% to start the engine from a seeming dead battery.
Battle Born has been consistent in saying that their batteries are strictly dead storage batteries and can not be used to start batteries. They are limited to a draw of 200 amps. However, they had many inquires about this and said that they were working on a product to overcome this limitation and it would be available is 2021. Haven’t hear about it since.
Therefore, I may need to include a third battery bank with a single Lithionics 12V130A-G31-LRBM8 battery. It is 1 130ah LiPO4 unit and I could charge it with Sterling 12v to 12v battery to battery charger.
I am working on that issue now.
I have installed another Ragusa aluminum battery pan on the drivers side, but I have installed the new 12v air conditioning compressor on it. I don’t know if there is room for the starting battery.

 

[sailor man]

What will you use for a starting battery?

This is the redesign. I have eliminated one of the Battle Born BBGC2 and substituted a Lithionics 12V130AH G31 battery. It will be charged solely from the Battle Born 12v House Bank using a Sterling 12v to 12v battery to battery charger. The Lithionics Never Die feature will mean that there will never be a "dead battery" problem.

Thank you again for the heads up.

 

[sailor man]

This is a used Villa 6-way electric drivers chair that I bought on eBay. I also bought the passenger chair and the (2) dining table settees. This unit reclines with foot rest, rotates 360* and only lacks seat heating and vibration.
Flexsteel no long makes them and Villa will now only sell to builders and renovators, so purchasing options are limited.
We also would like to see and try out them in person, so we went to the largest rv repair and rv in the states, which is near us. That was a revelation. There must have been a hundred diesel pushers in repair bays. There is a hotel there that a customer can stay in while the coach is being repaired. We pretended to be money bags buyers and looked a three used Tiffen diesel pusher, just to see and try out the Villa seats.
The comfort and the three point built in seat belts were the most important.
We were sold on the Villas, so I bought these. The leather may be micro-cracked, but not unsightly and they are so comfortable. I put down the money and they were shipped immediately.
It is a bitch getting them into the coach but we did it.
These seats cost over $4,000 new now, if you can get them. I bought these for $1,000 each plus shipping.