1978 Royale Update and Restoration

[Matt Colie]

As far as I have heard, the alternator belt squeal was really only a problem with 23s with upsized house banks. I fought it for a long time until I woke up and put my bell current probe on the line after a weekend of dry camping. When I saw that the alternator peaked at 98 amps, I knew right then what the problem was. It only happened when the house bank was way down.
Matt

 

[Blur911]

New alternator is in and the gen light is off! Only bummer about the new alternator is that it has metric threads, not standard, so I thought I had stripped the tension lock bolt. The ground bolt was metric, so on a whim, I dug through my bolt bin and tried a 10 mm x 1.25. Tightened up like it’s supposed to.

Regarding the dual belt setup…I’ve never had my alternator squeal the belt, so I didn’t do it. Not saying it isn’t a good idea, I’ll probably do it eventually, but right now, I’m calling good.

Mine has metric threads too, I think I commented on it when I renewed the belts. IIRC, it took an oddball wrench as well, like maybe a 15mm

 

[Mike_H]

Mine has metric threads too, I think I commented on it when I renewed the belts. IIRC, it took an oddball wrench as well, like maybe a 15mm

15 mm isn’t that odd, in the metric bolt world. I bet half the metric fasteners on my 04 wrangler require a 15mm wrench

 

[Blur911]

15 mm isn’t that odd, in the metric bolt world. I bet half the metric fasteners on my 04 wrangler require a 15mm wrench

I think I had only ever used it before on an oil pan drain bolt. Rare to need it on Euro or industrial stuff. I have an 11mm for adjusting front torsion bar settings on a 911, I think the only place I've used it. I don't think I've ever used my 18mm wrench.

 

[Mike_H]

I think I had only ever used it before on an oil pan drain bolt. Rare to need it on Euro or industrial stuff. I have an 11mm for adjusting front torsion bar settings on a 911, I think the only place I've used it. I don't think I've ever used my 18mm wrench.

It doesn't surprise me that Chrysler went their own way on that. My metric wrenches get a lot of use: 10, 11, 13, 15, 17, 18 are all in frequent rotation.

 

[LarryW]

8, 10, 12, 13, 14, 15, 17 most used by me.

 

[Matt Colie]

As my life has required that I work on lots of strange things, I have had to expect all the possible sizes of fasteners. So the different sequences of metric sizes is no surprise. One might think that "Metric" is "Metric". Sorry, but there is DIN as one, then JIC that is another and now we have the "Metricfication" as approached by the US OEs and those are different as are Korean and Chinese common uses.
Metrification as the US OEs managed it was interesting.
Ford's first cut was to change all the engine descriptors to metric, so the 302 became a 5.0 litre and the 300 became a 4.9 litre. It was said that they also changed the compression ratios to metric.
GM decreed that existing heavy casting would stay SAE until retooled. So, things that screwed onto the block/crankcase were still SAE, but things that were attached to the intake were metric, this left the cylinder head in limbo. Some stayed SAE for a long time, but if there were a serious revision, the new heads might be MM.
Lets not go into the old British things in Whitworth.
Fun, isn't it??
Matt

 

[Mike_H]

As my life has required that I work on lots of strange things, I have had to expect all the possible sizes of fasteners. So the different sequences of metric sizes is no surprise. One might think that "Metric" is "Metric". Sorry, but there is DIN as one, then JIC that is another and now we have the "Metricfication" as approached by the US OEs and those are different as are Korean and Chinese common uses.
Metrification as the US OEs managed it was interesting.
Ford's first cut was to change all the engine descriptors to metric, so the 302 became a 5.0 litre and the 300 became a 4.9 litre. It was said that they also changed the compression ratios to metric.
GM decreed that existing heavy casting would stay SAE until retooled. So, things that screwed onto the block/crankcase were still SAE, but things that were attached to the intake were metric, this left the cylinder head in limbo. Some stayed SAE for a long time, but if there were a serious revision, the new heads might be MM.
Lets not go into the old British things in Whitworth.
Fun, isn't it??
Matt

All I know is that it’s given me an excuse to have a larger Tool collection than an amateur wrench spinner has any business of having, Lol!

 

[RJW]

As my life has required that I work on lots of strange things, I have had to expect all the possible sizes of fasteners. So the different sequences of metric sizes is no surprise. One might think that "Metric" is "Metric". Sorry, but there is DIN as one, then JIC that is another and now we have the "Metricfication" as approached by the US OEs and those are different as are Korean and Chinese common uses.
Metrification as the US OEs managed it was interesting.
Ford's first cut was to change all the engine descriptors to metric, so the 302 became a 5.0 litre and the 300 became a 4.9 litre. It was said that they also changed the compression ratios to metric.
GM decreed that existing heavy casting would stay SAE until retooled. So, things that screwed onto the block/crankcase were still SAE, but things that were attached to the intake were metric, this left the cylinder head in limbo. Some stayed SAE for a long time, but if there were a serious revision, the new heads might be MM.
Lets not go into the old British things in Whitworth.
Fun, isn't it??
Matt

So maybe you know why there are empty spaces in my metric deep socket organizer. Why there never seem to be 20, 23 and 25 mm sockets? Not that I have never needed them before.

 

[Blur911]

Some sets of wrenches and sockets skip the rarely used ones. I remember waiting for an 11 piece set to go on sale because the very similar 9 piece set didn't have an 11mm.
I have way too many of some tools, I had a set for work, a set for the garage, and another for the cottage.
For no apparent reason I have a few British Whitworth spanners....don't call them wrenches.

 

[Mike_H]

Another Successful trip in the books! Went to Hartwick Pine State park last weekend to marvel at the HUGE trees in the old growth forest preserve there. If you need a visual, imagine the speeder scene from Endor in Return of the Jedi. No pictures, as I didn't have cell service, so my phone was in the camper and powered off.

I did get this pic of our campsite and the ol girl looking serene in the forest setting



As always, the dogs ride shotgun and kick my wife out to the dinette!



I also ran into GMC couple. We talked a bit. Their names are Ed and Sue. They have a pretty nice rig with a Caddy 472 in it! I didn't get a great picture.



I have another punch list of items to take care of. First of all, before we left, I figured out what was going on with my 12V system (posted some questions on FB). Basically, the fuse "panel" for the 12V side of the coach had REALLY bad conductivity on the main, 50AMP fuse holder. So, the Supply side was getting power, it was going through the fuse, but wasn't feeding the circuits properly. This was causing all 12V power to be pulled through the refer circuit (added on by coachman) and was causing that fuse to blow...I repaired that before we left but have all new Blue Sea components to go in. Those are being delivered today.

I also found my gray water tank is leaking...and its VERY small and drains very slow. Peering underneath shows a lot of sealant slathered all around the fitting, so I'll have to clean that up and investigate. Hopefully a simple fix...

 

[pvfjr]

Very cool, looking good! Funny you mention a 472--everyone is always talking about 500s, but I was just considering buying a local 472 from 1969. Should be a decent flowing set of heads...

 

[Mike_H]

Very cool, looking good! Funny you mention a 472--everyone is always talking about 500s, but I was just considering buying a local 472 from 1969. Should be a decent flowing set of heads...

I talked with Ed about the Cadillac motors quite a bit. Apparently the valve train is their weak link. Something to do with the rockers and how they are made. They are stamped and eventually start to roll off the post. When they do that they lose timing and bad things happen. He recommended installing a roller rocker new valve train from day one. But there isn’t really a good place to get one for caddy engines. Harland sharp makes one but you gotta call and ask for it. They don’t have it in the catalog.

 

[LarryW]

Yes, the valve train is a weak system in the 472 and 500 Cad's. There is a "T" pedestal with rockers on both sides of the T. A small spring steel clip holds the rockers in place and that clip has been known to break and the rocker slips off of the T. . Also the T has been known to break off. In both cases, when the rocker drops, the pushrod hops out followed by the lifter. Without the lifter in the bore, oil pressure drops to zero. If you don't shut the engine down immediately, internal engine damage can occur. I speak from experience when I say, If you are building a 472/500, putting a shaft rocker system of some kind is highly advisable.

There are several companies selling rocker systems. Applied GMC has a system, and The Cad Company of Alburquerque NM has several systems that are more than adequate for our purposes. MTS out of Apple Valley CA. (they have had several name changes over the last several years) also sells rocker systems, but their reputation has been tarnished so I would stay away from them. JMHO

 

[Mike_H]

Another edition of Fix it better than it was...I replaced my DC electrical distribution "panel" tonight. Replaced the old, loose, and corroded connections with a bunch of new Blue Sea stuff. I'm a big fan of marine style electrical in an RV.

Here is my old set-up.

And the new stuff. I used the same base plate, but removed the hinged cover because all my new stuff came with their own covers. All my wires now have terminals to prevent stray wires, they are all crimped properly and heatshrinked. I used an ANL Fuse holder with a 50A fuse to protect the system. Then the protected wire connects to the fuse block, which distributes the power to the individual circuits through standard ATC fuses (not the dumb little glass tubes anymore).

I'm about 90% done. I see there is one ground that needs to be covered up (missed the heatshrink). My charger/converter wires also need some bushings. The old way it was connected was just bare wire pushed into the terminals on the charger. The "attachment" was just a dogpoint set screw...well, that doesn't work all that well. I gave em a little tug and they pulled right out. I think I have some bushings I can crimp on so the screw has something to bite against.

The inverter was also installed haphazardly. There are like three splices where its pulling its 12v power...and it was connected on the unprotected side of the fuse. I'll run some new primary wire, all one piece, to provide power to it. Then I gotta figure out how its providing 120V AC to the coach. From what it looks like, its going to the outlet the charger/inverter is plugged into and bypassing any type of circuit breaker protection! I think its only 1500 watts too, so it won't run much. I may just pull it out and install a decent one.

Finally, I need to make some labels. The fuse block came with a sheet of them. I'd like to figure out how to run it through my laser printer for nice, neat labels.

If anyone see anything seriously wrong, please speak up. Its connected pretty much the way it came out (with the exception of the inverter). It makes sense to me, but I'm a mechanical engineer, not electrical...plus I'm relatively new to this whole RV thing.

 

[Mybanana]

purple power will soften the cooked on stuff but it wont fall off without some help. may take a few washes but its much better than simplegreen and its biodegradable too. yeah, give it a try. it also cleans soap scum and smoke stains effortlessly. I pretty much use it for everything except glass and waxed paint (takes wax right off anything too)

I lost a lot of oil thru the valve covers on my 76 Brook. Bought the gaskets,and removed covers to see no old gaskets. Just a very small bead of sealer. Factory procedure I was told. Has cork-rubber gaskets now and no leaks.

 

[Matt Colie]

Banana,
FIP (Formed in Place) was all the rage in that period. While they did last long enough for the warranty to run out, they seldom lasted any longer.
Matt

 

[Mike_H]

I lost a lot of oil thru the valve covers on my 76 Brook. Bought the gaskets,and removed covers to see no old gaskets. Just a very small bead of sealer. Factory procedure I was told. Has cork-rubber gaskets now and no leaks.

Mine too!

 

[Mike_H]

Quick update...Been wanting to make my rig look a little nicer. Was thinking I needed to repaint...but just for giggles, I got some of the compound and polish that I used to restore the gelcoat on my boat a few years ago. I can't believe the results...I did a test section about 2 x 3 and worked it for about a half hour.

This is where I started...Yes, its an actual picture of the motorhome, not a color chip, lol.



and the same spot, after compounding, Polish, and wax. Photos were taken inside my storage barn, so the lighting is crappy too.



This makes me very excited. Imron is very good paint and I'm happy I don't have to repaint the whole rig. I will probably need to do the area below the rub rail, but that is a much easier project.

 

[Mike_H]

The long cold winter is on its way out here in Michigan and my jeep projects are done. I have a heated barn, but the GMC is just a touch too big to fit, so it has to live at my folks. With warmer weather on the way, My wife and I started working on the interior.

Our first project to tackle is going to be the ceiling (tho, its already turning into much more than the ceiling). We had a plywood covered with wallpaper. Then, somewhere along the line, more wallpaper was added, covering the rubber trim panel strips and everything else in the way. It was falling down and looked terrible. We have also had a few leaks through the years and stains were showing. Finally, the front and rear end caps were cracked, yellowed and pretty ugly.

This is kinda what we're working with. Cabinets down and starting to get a feel for how this thing is assembled.





The rear cap was cracked all the way through.



Got all the panels out and noticed some very thin spots in the insulation.








Still working on pulling the wall panels, will finish that this weekend. I'm also planning on tackling the insulation. We elected to pull the ceiling and walls at the same time, as I will be adding another circuit or two for lighting. I don't have any overhead lighting that is switch controlled, so walking into the coach in the dark was a bit of a blind faith proposition to get to the first light fixture with a switch. To help, I bought some 2" surface mount LED's to run through the center of the coach.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B012ZOI3ZW

In the meantime, I've brought all the plastic from the ceiling and walls home with me, and have been working on repairing the cracks and refinishing the 'class A' surfaces.

I also decided the two rooftop units I have (both original to the coach) needed to be replaced. They are VERY loud and I can't run them both at the same time when I'm plugged in at a campground. I did a bit of research and decided on a couple Furrion Chill 13.5K units. They are High Efficiency and only pull 11.4 amps at full cooling. I bought them with heat strips and automatic air distribution boxes as well. Finally, I purchased a multi-zone thermostat to control the whole shebang.