1978 Royale Update and Restoration

RF_Burns said:
Mike,
I'm envious of your battery system. I have two 100 Ahr LiFePO4 batteries in parallel and they have been great.
If I was doing four batteries, I would have looked into wiring them in series for 48 volts. That reduces the current to 1/4 so that smaller wiring can be used. But the chargers and inverters are typically more expensive because of lower production.
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I thought about changing the voltage, but decided against it just because of the (maybe perceived) difficulty in getting all the other "stuff" that operates on 12V to work with a 48 V system. The 2/0 wire was expensive, but all my components are relatively close together so I will probably be able to do it with less than 20 feet total. I have a bunch of 4 gage left over from another project as well, so that helped.
 
Getting close to having power back in the ol motorhome. I have the batteries all connected to the switches, fuses, etc. and all that stuff is mounted to my board. The final piece of the puzzle (for now) is to get my DC - DC charger installed. I need to run a big wire from the alternator to the back of the coach. There is one already there…but I don’t think it’s big enough. My charger is a 30 amp, so it’s gonna need a decent piece of copper to go 30’ish feet at a 3% loss rate and 12V nominal voltage.

I’m pretty happy with how this is turning out. My hinge idea works beautifully and the layout is pleasing to my eye so far. It’s going to get busier, but I’m trying really hard to not get impatient and keep my wires nice and neat.

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Mike_H said:
Getting close to having power back in the ol motorhome. I have the batteries all connected to the switches, fuses, etc. and all that stuff is mounted to my board. The final piece of the puzzle (for now) is to get my DC - DC charger installed. I need to run a big wire from the alternator to the back of the coach. There is one already there…but I don’t think it’s big enough. My charger is a 30 amp, so it’s gonna need a decent piece of copper to go 30’ish feet at a 3% loss rate and 12V nominal voltage.

I’m pretty happy with how this is turning out. My hinge idea works beautifully and the layout is pleasing to my eye so far. It’s going to get busier, but I’m trying really hard to not get impatient and keep my wires nice and neat.
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Mike,
Install the DC-DC charger as close to the batteries as possible. The charger will compensate for whatever input voltage it gets and outputs the proper charge profile (voltage and current) to the batteries. I used a #8 wire from the from the Chassis Battery Positive Terminal through a 50A MIDI fuse along the drivers side (along the inside of the body) to the electrical cabinet at the rear. The DC-DC charger acts as your Isolator and mine has an Ignition Switch control so it does not charge unless the engine is running. Hooking it to the House side of the Isolator will present the charger with unfiltered rectified 3 phase DC pulses. I don't think the charger will like that. I left my Isolator (I paralled both diodes) in place so I still get the higher MAX AC fan speed from the dash AC.

#8 wire is rated for just over 50A so it should work in your case too. If your charger is rated at 30A, it may consume 35-40A when its charging at the maximum rate. My unit (a Renogy DC-DC charger) also has a 1/2 rate input which reduces the maximum charge rate to 50%. So I installed a switch on the dash so I can select Low/OFF/High charge rate. Most of the time I have it set to Low since we almost always have shore power so the batteries are already charged. In that case I just want it to keep up with our all-electric fridge.
 
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Mike,

Of course Bruce is right. Electrical answers from he or KenB can be taken as fact.

I would very much like to find the guy that came up with those 1% and 3% charts and make him fix the damage he has done. On low voltage systems (like the 12~15VDC), the problem is much more that of mV lost. I my case, that of the 23 with the house bank in the front and the converter/charger in the rear, it was a lost cause. When we were someplace dry, I would have to run the APU for HOURS to get back to 95%SOC. To make it so I could get to 95% in a reasonable time would require more copper than I could fit in the coach.

There was a solution, I put another converter at the passengers right ankle and about 2' of #7AWG (actually 3 runs of #10 because that is what I had and could fit in the space.

Matt
 
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RF_Burns said:
Mike,
Install the DC-DC charger as close to the batteries as possible. The charger will compensate for whatever input voltage it gets and outputs the proper charge profile (voltage and current) to the batteries. I used a #8 wire from the from the Chassis Battery Positive Terminal through a 50A MIDI fuse along the drivers side (along the inside of the body) to the electrical cabinet at the rear. The DC-DC charger acts as your Isolator and mine has an Ignition Switch control so it does not charge unless the engine is running. Hooking it to the House side of the Isolator will present the charger with unfiltered rectified 3 phase DC pulses. I don't think the charger will like that. I left my Isolator (I paralled both diodes) in place so I still get the higher MAX AC fan speed from the dash AC.

#8 wire is rated for just over 50A so it should work in your case too. If your charger is rated at 30A, it may consume 35-40A when its charging at the maximum rate. My unit (a Renogy DC-DC charger) also has a 1/2 rate input which reduces the maximum charge rate to 50%. So I installed a switch on the dash so I can select Low/OFF/High charge rate. Most of the time I have it set to Low since we almost always have shore power so the batteries are already charged. In that case I just want it to keep up with our all-electric fridge.
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Bruce, thanks for the info. I’ll be able to use the existing wire that was powering my original DC supply then. My Royal had the house batteries up front and the DC distribution in the rear.

Regarding where to connect the charger. I bought the isolated one because I planned on removing the factory installed isolator. Was planning on connecting to the chassis (+) terminal like you. I bought a 50 amp breaker as protection.
 
I had to order some new wire for the DC charger. The wire I was planning on tieing into was existing. Once I started looking into it, it was pieced together from Previous Owners...I really wish people that didn't know what they are doing would leave stuff alone. I found a "splice" that was really just two ring terminals, bolted together and taped with electrical tape. No junction box, or solidly mounted post. Just a loose wire, dangling around the frame with an always connected 12V in it and nothing more than a couple wraps of vinyl tape to protect it.

So, I got 40 feet of 6 ga red wire and 10 feet of 6 Ga black. Ordered some techflex wire wrap to protect the new wire and I'll be using some adel clamps to fix it to the frame.

do it right, or do it twice....

Buy Once, Cry Once...

Right? That's what I'm telling my self as I pour money into this thing.
 
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Ooof. I hope I don’t offend anyone, I know this is a small community and these coaches sometimes get passed around, but holy cow. The electrical on my coach is awful. I removed the 6 gage wire that ran from the main fuse and isolator for my factory installed house battery yesterday. Since I have a coachman, there are also two other circuits tied into that same post.

Those all came out, because of some nasty surprises. One of the two coachman circuits (used in the kitchen) had rubbed bare on the frame, which could create a dead short. None of the wires were loomed or properly contained…only zip tied to the fuel supply line.

I found this fuse holder, added to the factory harness. IMG_1310.jpeg
And it was spliced in by twisted two wires together and taping them! IMG_1311.jpeg

Further, the blue wire carried on to the NEGATIVE post of the isolator! I don’t have any idea what that circuit was supposed to power, but it ain’t gonna work like that.

I found this nice splice in the back of my coach. This is the main supply for the DC house system, for what it’s worth. IMG_1309.jpeg

For those paying attention, you’ll notice a 6 gage wire crammed into a yellow ring terminal…(10-12 AWG size) and a bunch of broken strands. It’s no wonder I have had trouble with my house DC. Oh…that junction wasn’t made on a chassis post or screw terminal or any of the other proper ways to do that. Nope, just that bolt and nut, dangling free in space, wrapped in tape.


I’ve also found two other wires that were clipped in half or broken along their journey to the back of the coach. I believe they are wires from the remote panel for the generator. As I strip more of this old stuff out, I’ll see what needs to be replaced. I am going to use blue tooth level sensors for my waste, propane, and fresh water tanks, which will communicate with my Cerbus. So a long of that wiring will go away.


It’s a wonder this thing hasn’t burned to the ground.

The wife and I are heading to botrangers surplus on Friday this week too. I pulled the fridge and oven in anticipation of that. Still trying to decide if I want to stay with an absorption style fridge, or go DC compressor. We’re also installing an induction cooktop vs the range. We have a convection microwave oven if we ever feel the need to use an oven. Hopefully, we can score a good deal on a couple new appliances.
 
We had a pretty good day at the Surplus Stores last Friday. Ended up getting our fridge, a cooktop, a couple new faucets (real brass, not stupid plastic), and found some new captain and co-captains chairs. That was unexpected and welcome. We had bought some from a Mazda Minivan, but I wasn't super excited about installing them. The seat framework was wonky (on account of their removability from the Minivan) and the color wasn't right, so I was looking at sewing a cover or installing a seat cover (which I've never liked).

The Fridge is a Norcold 10 CuFt model, stainless door, DC compressor. Since we bought it from a surplus store, I plugged it in yesterday (I have a 12 V power supply) and let it run for a couple hours to make sure it works. Seems to. I let the freezer get down to about 10 F and the Fridge was around 45 degrees when I unplugged it. I also flipped the doors around. Gotta look at that, since the lock doesn't really work anymore. Might have an incorrect part or something.

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The new seats. They are brand new, obsoltete models from some Jayco coach. They feel pretty comfortable in the few minutes I sat in them, dual armrest, but not lumbar adjustment. I may tear into my old seats and retrieve those air bladders. Everything else looks like it will bolt right up though. I may have to remove a side skirt to open a pass through for th seat slider lever...but we'll see.

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No pics of the induction cooktop, since its still in a box. Its a Furrion 1800 watt model though. Looks like this one.

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So, Now the pressure is on...I'm almost done with my install on the power system upgrade. Gotta start chasing wires that I don't need anymore (all the level sensors for my tanks are going away, so that is a BUNCH of wires to pull).
 
Unfortunately, the fridge is gonna add to the list of projects. We had a 7 Cu foot fridge (56" tall). Botrangers had the same model as what we bought in a 8 cu ft version, but knowing how my wife likes to pack, I opted to get the bigger one. Its 60" tall and I had measured the cabinet where it fits and knew a 60" model would fit, if I got rid of the riser that was installed. I didn't really think too much of it.

Well, I should have pulled the riser before buying the fridge...Circled in red is the drain line from my sink. The fridge needs to sit flat on the floor to fit in the existing cabinet space. Couple different options...I have plenty of depth, so I can re-route the drain. That will involve pulling my shower though (It appears to share the same drain line). The other (and more probable option) is to replace the cabinet face and change the upper cabinet. It will get shorter...but honestly, that will be the easiest solution. No returns allowed when you buy this stuff...so I would have to try and sell it, then drive two hour south and buy another fridge to use the cabinet as it...and the face has some damage anyway.

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I got most of the wiring pulled today that I'm going to pull. I still have a couple AC lines to remove and one more DC circuit, but all my old tank sender wires are out, my DC wires are pulled, the LP tank sender is pulled, etc. I have a LOT of extra copper now.

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I also worked out getting power to my DC-DC charger. This is coming together nicely. Weather proof Cord grip through the firewall, runs along the side of the coach and finally terminates at the charger. Used up all 40 feet of the wire I bought doing it this way though. I'm a lot happier with this circuit being inside the walls, vs dangling along the frame, outside. I'm also cleaning up all the poorly added circuits and the OLD factory electronics up front.

Old. The circle is where they (Coachman, the upfitter) tied in two circuits vs pulling power of the rear distribution. The battery maintainer is supposed to go between the house and chassis batteries...It was only connected to the house side so it wasn't maintaining anything. All that loom was for added circuits and splices. The blue thing in the upper left is my old isolator. It was a MESS.
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New...Still have a couple wires to trace down, and I think I want a buss bar to bring power off of for all the tie ins on the Boost solenoid. I will elminate that since my Li batteries cannot be used to start IC engines. My next bunch of work days are going to be very electo-centric.

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After finding what I’ve found with electrical, and looking under my shower, I’m taking a break in the rebuild to pull the rest of the walls and kitchen out. Started with the bath yesterday. I can’t believe coachman put carpeting under the shower! I have some flooring to replaceIMG_1377.jpegIMG_1375.jpeg

I got the shower enclosure out through the front door. Then I found thisIMG_1382.jpeg

Biggest flipping mouse nest yet! This one has a dead mouse in it. 🤮 🤮

No wonder we’ve had a bad smell in the coach that we couldn’t clear.

It’s going to be more work than we anticipated, but it needs to be done. I’ve also decided on a direction for the fridge. It will have to go on the riser. The wheel well gets in the way of bending the plumbing around enough to clear the floor. That means I’ll be remaking the cabinet face frames for the whole coach, and some doors, and drawers. What have I gotten into? 😂
 
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After 7 months we are finally coming to terms with the fact that EVERYTHING needs to be rebuilt. No incremental fixes here. Yesterday we focused on getting the rest of the interior pulled out.

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Obviously, I still have some cleanup to do. Since I'm this far, I have some Ideas on the dumb location of the propane tank, so that will probably change. One of the things I really didn't like about the original layout was that there wasn't a really nice spot to sit and relax. Just the Dinette. One of the reasons for that is the giant, 60 gal propane tank that juts out into the floor. Elminating that gives me an opportunity to put a couple comfortable chairs in with a fold out table. That is my preferred option, but my wife is concerned with the loss of seating that brings. I'm concerned with losing the storage area in back, which is nice to have.
 
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Mike,
I sure hope you can keep up the energy level required. In any given year we see a few coaches come up for sale than have been gutted. They don't bring much... We have also had owners show up at rallies with nothing but air mattresses and sleeping bags.
Matt_C
 
Matt Colie said:
Mike,
I sure hope you can keep up the energy level required. In any given year we see a few coaches come up for sale than have been gutted. They don't bring much... We have also had owners show up at rallies with nothing but air mattresses and sleeping bags.
Matt_C
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If I had a dollar for every person who's said that (or some similar variation) to me, I could probably take the coach to Cinnabar and have them finish it.
 
Mike_H said:
After 7 months we are finally coming to terms with the fact that EVERYTHING needs to be rebuilt. No incremental fixes here. Yesterday we focused on getting the rest of the interior pulled out.
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Once you get everything old that is staying cleaned up, before reassembling, I would spray with poly or paint to seal in any residual aromas trapped in the old wood.
 
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