Water pump pulley needed

[LarryW]

Just talked to Bob Dunahue. He is about 60 mi east of Albuquerque NM. Water pump shaft twisted off and bent the pulley in the process. Only damage
is kinda tore up the shroud. Did not touch the radiator or anything else. He found a replacement water pump at a local parts store and thinks he can
hammer the pulley back into shape enough to get to Tucson. So, if any of you that are coming to Tuscon rally have an extra water pump pulley that you
could sell to him, please bring to GMCMI rally. He engine is the 403 Olds.

Please help if you can.

--
Larry
78 Royale w/500 Caddy
Menomonie, WI.

 

[Matt Colie]

Larry,
I just sent one of the parts he might need to Tom Pryor.
If he has a list with him, ask him to call Tom.
Matt

--
Matt & Mary Colie - '73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan
OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit

 

[LarryW]

> Just talked to Bob Dunahue. He is about 60 mi east of Albuquerque NM. Water pump shaft twisted off and bent the pulley in the process. Only
> damage is kinda tore up the shroud. Did not touch the radiator or anything else. He found a replacement water pump at a local parts store and
> thinks he can hammer the pulley back into shape enough to get to Tucson. So, if any of you that are coming to Tuscon rally have an extra water pump
> pulley that you could sell to him, please bring to GMCMI rally. He engine is the 403 Olds.
>
> Please help if you can.

Hey all, just found out that he also needs the crank pulley. So, now Bob needs both crank and water pump pulley for the Olds 403.

--
Larry
78 Royale w/500 Caddy
Menomonie, WI.

 

[LarryW]

> Larry,
> I just sent one of the parts he might need to Tom Pryor.
> If he has a list with him, ask him to call Tom.
> Matt

Phone # that I can pass on to Bob?
--
Larry
78 Royale w/500 Caddy
Menomonie, WI.

 

[hal stclair]

Just taked with Bob, he's about 70 miles from us. I think I have the parts he'll need off the old 403 sitting in the shop. If he can limpit to here I
think we'll get him back whole.
He'll have to share the shop with another GMCer who's on his way with a leaking water pump. Go figure.
Hal
--
1977 Royale 101348,

1977 Royale 101586, Diesel powered,

1975 Eleganza II, 101230,

1974 Eagle Bus 45',w/slideout,

Rio Rancho, NM

 

[sgltrac]

Is this the Bob with the Mercedes fan setup?

Sully
77 eleganza 2
Bellevue.

On Mon, Apr 2, 2018 at 6:04 PM Hal StClair
wrote:

> Just taked with Bob, he's about 70 miles from us. I think I have the parts
> he'll need off the old 403 sitting in the shop. If he can limpit to here I
> think we'll get him back whole.
> He'll have to share the shop with another GMCer who's on his way with a
> leaking water pump. Go figure.
> Hal
> --
> 1977 Royale 101348,
>
> 1977 Royale 101586, Diesel powered,
>
> 1975 Eleganza II, 101230,
>
> 1974 Eagle Bus 45',w/slideout,
>
> Rio Rancho, NM
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>

 

[LarryW]

> Is this the Bob with the Mercedes fan setup?
>
> Sully
> 77 eleganza 2
> Bellevue.
>
> On Mon, Apr 2, 2018 at 6:04 PM Hal StClair

>
> > Just taked with Bob, he's about 70 miles from us. I think I have the parts
> > he'll need off the old 403 sitting in the shop. If he can limpit to here I
> > think we'll get him back whole.
> > He'll have to share the shop with another GMCer who's on his way with a
> > leaking water pump. Go figure.
> > Hal
> > --
> > 1977 Royale 101348,
> >
> > 1977 Royale 101586, Diesel powered,
> >
> > 1975 Eleganza II, 101230,
> >
> > 1974 Eagle Bus 45',w/slideout,
> >
> > Rio Rancho, NM
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > GMCnet mailing list
> > Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> > http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
> >
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org

yes...Interesting huh?
--
Larry
78 Royale w/500 Caddy
Menomonie, WI.

 

[Ken B]

Someone might want to look for a slower engaging clutch. The OEM clutch even the severe duty one never engages fully and it comes on and goes off
slowly. I have never heard of twisting a water pump shaft. If he wants to keep that clutch, maybe he can trim that fan down a few inches.
--
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana

 

[Matt Colie]

> Someone might want to look for a slower engaging clutch. The OEM clutch even the severe duty one never engages fully and it comes on and goes off
> slowly. I have never heard of twisting a water pump shaft. If he wants to keep that clutch, maybe he can trim that fan down a few inches.

Ken,

I do not believe that the fan clutch could be an issue here. I have three or four thousand miles on mine and have had no issue and in actual fact,
the fan clutch really does not load the water pump shaft as it is fastened to the water pump sheave. What we do know is that this was a water pump
that Bob has zero history on because it was in the replacement coach.

Just as a note, this fan is a "ring fan" and as such trimming the tip radius would be a trick.

Matt
--
Matt & Mary Colie - '73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan
OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit

 

[Ken H.]

Sounds, based on minimal evidence, like the engagement signal needs to ramp
up slowly. Shouldn't be a difficult feature to implement -- for someone
still electronically proficient.

I don't think reducing the fan diameter is practical because it has a
blade-tip circumferential ring.

Ken H.

> Someone might want to look for a slower engaging clutch. The OEM clutch
> even the severe duty one never engages fully and it comes on and goes off
> slowly. I have never heard of twisting a water pump shaft. If he wants
> to keep that clutch, maybe he can trim that fan down a few inches.
> --
> Ken Burton - N9KB
> 76 Palm Beach
> Hebron, Indiana
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>

 

[les burt]

KenB, I was thinking along similar lines. I believe Bob is running a 3.70 FD, which has the engine spinning a fair bit faster. I’m wondering if the fan is putting enough of an extra load on the system that it has found a new weak spot.

The extra RPM combined with the new fan could be loading the belts excesssively, causing the WP shaft to flex enough to cause premature failure.

I seem to recall that Bob had just changed the WP, which may also be a factor.

I waiting to hear how this all plays out.

Les Burt
Montreal
'75 Eleganza 26'

>
> Someone might want to look for a slower engaging clutch. The OEM clutch even the severe duty one never engages fully and it comes on and goes off
> slowly. I have never heard of twisting a water pump shaft. If he wants to keep that clutch, maybe he can trim that fan down a few inches.
> --
> Ken Burton - N9KB
> 76 Palm Beach
> Hebron, Indiana
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org

 

[hal stclair]

Ken, using PWM to engage the fan is the method I'm in the process of using on my 6.5. Hayden makes a really nice PWM controller thats adjustable and
can be manually over ridden if desired. Its a really robust unit, capable of 24 amps, much more needed than the 2 amp draw of a fan clutch. It starts
at 60% and ramps up to 100% engagement when needed over a 10 degree temperature rise. Looks great on paper, we'll see how it does in real life
shortly. It should keep the shock loading to a minimun.
Hal
--
1977 Royale 101348,

1977 Royale 101586, Diesel powered,

1975 Eleganza II, 101230,

1974 Eagle Bus 45',w/slideout,

Rio Rancho, NM

 

[78gmcroyale]

I have a spare pully off a 403 I was going to send down to Tom Pryor. Keep me posted and if he needs it I can FedEx it down to him.

Ray
414-484-9431
--
Ray Erspamer
78 GMC Royale
414-484-9431

 

[robert mueller]

Matt,

You lost me!

Could you please explain this a bit more:

"the fan clutch really does not load the water pump shaft as it is fastened to the water pump sheave."

Regards,
Rob M.
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
USA '77 Kingsley - TZE 267V100808


-----Original Message-----
From: Gmclist [mailto:gmclist-bounces] On Behalf Of Matt Colie
Sent: Tuesday, April 3, 2018 7:19 AM
To: gmclist
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Water pump pulley needed

Ken,

I do not believe that the fan clutch could be an issue here. I have three or four thousand miles on mine and have had no issue and
in actual fact, the fan clutch really does not load the water pump shaft as it is fastened to the water pump sheave. What we do
know is that this was a water pump that Bob has zero history on because it was in the replacement coach.

Just as a note, this fan is a "ring fan" and as such trimming the tip radius would be a trick.

Matt

 

[johnny]

These clutches have a viscous clutch action, it is smooth, over a period of time. It doesn't shock load the drive system. It differs from OEM only
in the way the valve is opened and closed to allow the acting fluid into the clutch chamber.

--johnny
--
76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
"I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell" - ol Andy, paraphrased

 

[johnny]

A rather colorful groupd of mechanics and racing fans who replaced the water pump on my 223' when it went Dixie. And came to pieces. And junked the
water pump pulley. Stock fan and horsecollar shroud. They >will< come apart.

http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/g6197-r-d-27s-service-gastonia.html

Incidentally, including power for the overnight stay (It quit at 4:30 PM) on his parking lot, the entire job - parts, machine shop, labor, etc. $585.
All - time bargain.

--johnny
--
76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
"I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell" - ol Andy, paraphrased

 

[Matt Colie]

> Matt,
>
> You lost me!
>
> Could you please explain this a bit more:
>
> "the fan clutch really does not load the water pump shaft as it is fastened to the water pump sheave."
>
> Regards,
> Rob M.

Rob,

Apart from the possible change in the horsepower load of FEAD (Front Engine Accessory Drive) the only load on the water pump shaft is the pumping
load. As this fan is actually better balanced than the original (at least mine sure was/is) so that just is not likely to be any issue. The sheaves
and the fan adapter are all fastened to the water pump drive flange.

Matt
--
Matt & Mary Colie - '73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan
OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit

 

[john phillips]

Is there anyone who is happy with an electric fan transferring the load to
the alternator?

> > Matt,
> >
> > You lost me!
> >
> > Could you please explain this a bit more:
> >
> > "the fan clutch really does not load the water pump shaft as it is
> fastened to the water pump sheave."
> >
> > Regards,
> > Rob M.
>
> Rob,
>
> Apart from the possible change in the horsepower load of FEAD (Front
> Engine Accessory Drive) the only load on the water pump shaft is the pumping
> load. As this fan is actually better balanced than the original (at least
> mine sure was/is) so that just is not likely to be any issue. The sheaves
> and the fan adapter are all fastened to the water pump drive flange.
>
> Matt
> --
> Matt & Mary Colie - '73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
> Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan
> OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
> SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>

--

*John Phillips*

 

[d c *mac* macdonald]

Isn't this all about an electrically energized fan and NOT an electric fan?

D C "Mac" Macdonald
Amateur Radio K2GKK
Since 30 November '53
USAF and FAA, Retired
Member GMCMI & Classics
Oklahoma City, OK
"The Money Pit"
TZE166V101966
'76 ex-Palm Beach
k2gkk + hotmail dot com

________________________________
From: Gmclist on behalf of John Phillips
Sent: Tuesday, April 3, 2018 19:52
To: gmclist
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Water pump pulley needed

Is there anyone who is happy with an electric fan transferring the load to
the alternator?

> > Matt,
> >
> > You lost me!
> >
> > Could you please explain this a bit more:
> >
> > "the fan clutch really does not load the water pump shaft as it is
> fastened to the water pump sheave."
> >
> > Regards,
> > Rob M.
>
> Rob,
>
> Apart from the possible change in the horsepower load of FEAD (Front
> Engine Accessory Drive) the only load on the water pump shaft is the pumping
> load. As this fan is actually better balanced than the original (at least
> mine sure was/is) so that just is not likely to be any issue. The sheaves
> and the fan adapter are all fastened to the water pump drive flange.
>
> Matt
> --
> Matt & Mary Colie - '73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
> Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan
> OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
> SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit

 

[terry1]

Did Bob's pump lock up? I can see no other reason for a twist-off of that shaft. Fan torque is transmitted directly to the pulley (sheave) and the
shaft is not involved, just the bolts for the clutch assembly. The Mercedes setup is a small switch pitch torque converter type, so engagement cannot
be instantaneous. I would think the next better setup would be a resonant magnetic lock, which would probably have to be modulated to avoid belt
chirping.

"Is there anyone who is happy with an electric fan transferring the load to
the alternator?"

John, I've read on here somewhere that there was at least one owner happy with the electric fan transferring the load like in a modern car, and I
don't really understand why there aren't lots, but I think it has to do with the aluminum radiator in the modern cars and the engines being much
smaller and/or made of aluminum also.

I put an extra electric fan on mine, and while it will help to cool things down when moving slow, the actual structure of the fan obstructs the
airflow enough at highway speed that it actually makes it run warmer unless I turn it on. And the fan only cools half the radiator, so if it was full
coverage like the big Mercedes electric fan I have, I'd probably have to keep it running constantly.
--
Terry Kelpien

ASE Master Technician

73 Glacier 260

Smithfield, Va.