Tire Wars

> Heinz I understand the problem and money is most certainly a factor for
> many. It is not easy to shell out $1150 for new alcoas and than another
> $1000 for tires. But I have to wonder how many years this problem existed
> simply because people were not aware of the problem. for instance the
tires
> on my coach were over 10 years old, and I did not know it until one of
them
> blew out.

That is indeed and ouch. Perhaps that may be partially how I've been "lucky"
enough not have problems in all my miles and years. I don't think I've ever
had a tire older than 3 or 4 years.

>
> Now because of this net, we have information available almost instantly.
In
> the last year I have made it a point when seeing new GMC motorhomes to
look
> at the tires. I am amazed at how many of them have old tires with little
> tread, checked sidewalls, and looking underinflated.

That is the very unfortunate part and you're right that the net is helping
to make people aware, especially new prospective owners so that they can
negotiate better and more informed... and hence be a safer GMC'er.

>
> I hope that we have learned that no matter what tire you select, after 3-5
> years, replace them.

I guess this is were my ignorance shows once again... I always thought this
to be the case :-)

Heinz

>
>
>
>

> >Tom.
> >I don't think anyone is realy worried about 20 bucks to go to E's at next
> >tire change, it's the decision and cost as to when to do that tire change
> >that's causing us to question as to when the right time is. That's the
boa
> >constrictor some of us have to deal with and sometimes a straw is all we
> >have :-)
> >
> >That's the dilema that I am (was) at but I decided to forego my
marguarita
> >allowance on the next couple of trips. Going to pick up my Michelins on
> >Monday. Of course they won't get put on until next trip as Alcoa
replacments
> >are still 5 weeks away.
> >
> >The unfortunate part is that every D tire failure will be attributed to
the
> >fact of it simply being D. I firmly believe that the reason we don't hear
of
> >many E failures is simply because there are not as many "old" ones out
there
> >compared to the number of D's out there. What are we going to blame when
> >the E's start to get old and get used to beyond what they should be in
time,
> >etc. and start to blow?
> >
> >Heinz
> >
> >
> >> Trying to kill this tire myth is like trying to kill a boa constrictor
> >with
> >> a straw. We are talkin about approx $20 per tire to change from D rated
> >> tires to all steel E rated ones. If there is even the slightest chance
of
> >> Wes Caulan being right can you really afford to not take his advice? I
> >will
> >> spend $120 any day to avoid a blowout or worse. Wait until you get the
> >bill
> >> for the coach repairs if you ever have a blow out.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Here is what Wes said:
> >> "In the early 1980's GM replaced all of its original equipment
> >> polyester-casing load range D tires with Michelin All-steel load range
E
> >> RADIAL tires. It was not in the 1970's."
> >>
> >>
> >>

> >> >
> >> >> Then if my logic is logical, why haven't the owners of '73 & '74
models
> >> >> received a recall from GM to replace those non-radial wheels which
> >won't
> >> >> hold
> >> >> up under the stress of the required radial tires?? I missed out on
the
> >> >tire
> >> >> recall, having ditched my Generals and bought Michelins with my own
> >money,
> >> >> and now I've replaced their defective wheels.
> >> >
> >> >Lanier,
> >> > IIRC, the "D" => "E" tire recall involved installing steel-belted
BIAS
> >PLY
> >> >load-range E tires, not radials. (Probably not steel-sidewalls
either,
> >> >FWIW.) In fact one early recall was to install little stickers
reminding
> >> >everyone NOT to mount radials. My '75 has such a sticker in the
> >glovebox.
> >> >So, basically, radial tires were never "required".
> >> >
> >> > It was not until late '75 that radial-ready wheels were used, and
some
> >> >time after THAT, that GM "reluctantly" (Wes Coughlin's words)
installed
> >> >radial tires. Incidentally, one bulletin I have admonishes the
dealers
> >that
> >> >unless the customer uses the lone approved Generel "steel-belted" (not
> >> >all-steel) radial tire, GM would disavow any complaints of harsh ride,
> >poor
> >> >tracking (wiggle), or the like.
> >> >
> >> > As late as 1990, Wes Coughlin, while advocating all-steel radial
> >tires,
> >> >was advising a questioner to go find some bias-ply tires if he really
> >wanted
> >> >to eliminate the tendency to follow the grooves in the highway. (cf:
> >"Coach
> >> >Talk", Sept. 1990, published in the GMC Western States' newsletter,
pp.
> >3-4)
> >> >
> >> > Having thrown my cup of gasoline on the flames, I retire to my
> >fortified
> >> >keyboard to watch the second act of "Tire Wars".
> >> >;-)
> >> >
> >> >Rick Staples
> >> >'75 Eleganza
> >> >Louisville, CO
> >> >
> >> >
> >> Tom & Marg Warner
> >> Vernon Center NY
> >> 1976 palmbeach
> >> "The beautiful Mohawk Vally"
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> Tom & Marg Warner
> Vernon Center NY
> 1976 palmbeach
> "The beautiful Mohawk Vally"
>
>
 
I can't believe it but it's great fun. This tire stuff is like the trick
candles on birthday cakes where you blow them out and they come back to
life again and start burning brightly!!
I have to agree with Tom Warner and some others --E and steele is the
right way to go, but then to be honest I have to admit I have a couple
of D's with rag side walls and which are seven years old that I'm trying
to wear out. If successful I'll think I'm smart; if not I'll have to go
bury my head in the sand. To beat the odds,I keep them right up to
pressure, out of the sun,garaged all the time when not in use,covered
when parked in the sun,and on the middle wheels as I think they get less
twisting in this position being at the fulcrum point of the vehicle.They
are running at about 1700 lbs on each wheel so not overloaded. I thought
of putting on the front to wear even faster but wondered what would
happen if I got a blow there.Just hope they don't blow!!

For some who are considering putting on steele wheels-maybe they are
cheaper but for my money I would wait till I could afford the Alcoas.
They were one of the better things I did for the coach. Each wheel is 20
lbs. lighter. That's about 120 lbs for six wheels. They are forged so
dead true, with out runout. and perhaps because of the different metal
they don't tranmit road noise in the same way that the steele ones do.I
like them; they look good and one solves in one fel swoop the problems
of hub caps- whether its the clicking, or falling off, or just getting
at the valve caps so you know you are up to pressure.Thats it .
Claude in Victoria BC.
 
just interested Claude how you know that you are running at about 1700 # on
each wheel?

>I can't believe it but it's great fun. This tire stuff is like the trick
>candles on birthday cakes where you blow them out and they come back to
>life again and start burning brightly!!
>I have to agree with Tom Warner and some others --E and steele is the
>right way to go, but then to be honest I have to admit I have a couple
>of D's with rag side walls and which are seven years old that I'm trying
>to wear out. If successful I'll think I'm smart; if not I'll have to go
>bury my head in the sand. To beat the odds,I keep them right up to
>pressure, out of the sun,garaged all the time when not in use,covered
>when parked in the sun,and on the middle wheels as I think they get less
>twisting in this position being at the fulcrum point of the vehicle.They
>are running at about 1700 lbs on each wheel so not overloaded. I thought
>of putting on the front to wear even faster but wondered what would
>happen if I got a blow there.Just hope they don't blow!!
>
>For some who are considering putting on steele wheels-maybe they are
>cheaper but for my money I would wait till I could afford the Alcoas.
>They were one of the better things I did for the coach. Each wheel is 20
>lbs. lighter. That's about 120 lbs for six wheels. They are forged so
>dead true, with out runout. and perhaps because of the different metal
>they don't tranmit road noise in the same way that the steele ones do.I
>like them; they look good and one solves in one fel swoop the problems
>of hub caps- whether its the clicking, or falling off, or just getting
>at the valve caps so you know you are up to pressure.Thats it .
>Claude in Victoria BC.
>
>
Tom & Marg Warner
Vernon Center NY
1976 palmbeach
"The beautiful Mohawk Vally"
 
That's exactly my problem Heinz! I just got back from a trip up on the
panhandle using my Michelin spare in place of another 'D' Goodyear. The
tread separated on it just like 2 others. WalMart gives me replacements
free since there is no real tread wear.

I wonder if they'd just buy the tires back from me so I could go ahead and
switch to Steel Micky's.!!??

bdub

>Tom.
>I don't think anyone is realy worried about 20 bucks to go to E's at next
>tire change, it's the decision and cost as to when to do that tire change
>that's causing us to question as to when the right time is. That's the boa
>constrictor some of us have to deal with and sometimes a straw is all we
>have :-)
>
>That's the dilema that I am (was) at but I decided to forego my marguarita
>allowance on the next couple of trips. Going to pick up my Michelins on
>Monday. Of course they won't get put on until next trip as Alcoa replacments
>are still 5 weeks away.
>
>The unfortunate part is that every D tire failure will be attributed to the
>fact of it simply being D. I firmly believe that the reason we don't hear of
>many E failures is simply because there are not as many "old" ones out there
>compared to the number of D's out there. What are we going to blame when
>the E's start to get old and get used to beyond what they should be in time,
>etc. and start to blow?
>
>Heinz
>
>
>> Trying to kill this tire myth is like trying to kill a boa constrictor
>with
>> a straw. We are talkin about approx $20 per tire to change from D rated
>> tires to all steel E rated ones. If there is even the slightest chance of
>> Wes Caulan being right can you really afford to not take his advice? I
>will
>> spend $120 any day to avoid a blowout or worse. Wait until you get the
>bill
>> for the coach repairs if you ever have a blow out.
>>
>>
>>
>> Here is what Wes said:
>> "In the early 1980's GM replaced all of its original equipment
>> polyester-casing load range D tires with Michelin All-steel load range E
>> RADIAL tires. It was not in the 1970's."
>>
>>
>>

>> >
>> >> Then if my logic is logical, why haven't the owners of '73 & '74 models
>> >> received a recall from GM to replace those non-radial wheels which
>won't
>> >> hold
>> >> up under the stress of the required radial tires?? I missed out on the
>> >tire
>> >> recall, having ditched my Generals and bought Michelins with my own
>money,
>> >> and now I've replaced their defective wheels.
>> >
>> >Lanier,
>> > IIRC, the "D" => "E" tire recall involved installing steel-belted BIAS
>PLY
>> >load-range E tires, not radials. (Probably not steel-sidewalls either,
>> >FWIW.) In fact one early recall was to install little stickers reminding
>> >everyone NOT to mount radials. My '75 has such a sticker in the
>glovebox.
>> >So, basically, radial tires were never "required".
>> >
>> > It was not until late '75 that radial-ready wheels were used, and some
>> >time after THAT, that GM "reluctantly" (Wes Coughlin's words) installed
>> >radial tires. Incidentally, one bulletin I have admonishes the dealers
>that
>> >unless the customer uses the lone approved Generel "steel-belted" (not
>> >all-steel) radial tire, GM would disavow any complaints of harsh ride,
>poor
>> >tracking (wiggle), or the like.
>> >
>> > As late as 1990, Wes Coughlin, while advocating all-steel radial
>tires,
>> >was advising a questioner to go find some bias-ply tires if he really
>wanted
>> >to eliminate the tendency to follow the grooves in the highway. (cf:
>"Coach
>> >Talk", Sept. 1990, published in the GMC Western States' newsletter, pp.
>3-4)
>> >
>> > Having thrown my cup of gasoline on the flames, I retire to my
>fortified
>> >keyboard to watch the second act of "Tire Wars".
>> >;-)
>> >
>> >Rick Staples
>> >'75 Eleganza
>> >Louisville, CO
>> >
>> >
>> Tom & Marg Warner
>> Vernon Center NY
>> 1976 palmbeach
>> "The beautiful Mohawk Vally"
>>
>>
>
>
 
Maybe it is time to get the big boys involved and see what they say. I sent
this to michelin minutes ago>

Members of the GMC motorhome community are presently having a serious
disagreement over the correct tire to use on the GMC motorhome. General
Motors recalled the originally fitted D rated bias ply General tires in the
1980 time frame and replaced them with E rated all steel LT225/75R16
Michelin tires.

Since than many of the owner have continued to use the D rated tires with
sometimes disasterous results. Just last fall two of mine suffered
catastrophic failures and one blew entirely apart causing quite a lot of
damage to my coach. Michelin was nice enough to replace the tires at no cost.

The GMC motorhome is a 11-12,000# motorhome with bogie intermediate wheels,
suspended by air bags on each side. It is powered by a 455 oldsmobile front
wheel drive engine and transaxel. This combination puts enormous sidewall
forces on the tires.

Wes Caughlan of Cinnabar Engineering, 10836 West Loyola Drive, Los Altos,CA
94024 accomplished extensive engineering analysis for GM on this problem in
the 1980-'s time frame. His telephone # is 415-948-2618. Could you either
coordiante with him or give me information that will enable us once and for
all to decide the correct tire for this motorhome and the correct inflation
pressure? Our members are using between 55-80PSi in the tires at the
current time.

In the interest of safety and the Michelin reputation for safety and
integrity of your products I thought that you would take an interest.

Thanks

>That's exactly my problem Heinz! I just got back from a trip up on the
>panhandle using my Michelin spare in place of another 'D' Goodyear. The
>tread separated on it just like 2 others. WalMart gives me replacements
>free since there is no real tread wear.
>
>I wonder if they'd just buy the tires back from me so I could go ahead and
>switch to Steel Micky's.!!??
>
>
>bdub
>
>

>>Tom.
>>I don't think anyone is realy worried about 20 bucks to go to E's at next
>>tire change, it's the decision and cost as to when to do that tire change
>>that's causing us to question as to when the right time is. That's the boa
>>constrictor some of us have to deal with and sometimes a straw is all we
>>have :-)
>>
>>That's the dilema that I am (was) at but I decided to forego my marguarita
>>allowance on the next couple of trips. Going to pick up my Michelins on
>>Monday. Of course they won't get put on until next trip as Alcoa replacments
>>are still 5 weeks away.
>>
>>The unfortunate part is that every D tire failure will be attributed to the
>>fact of it simply being D. I firmly believe that the reason we don't hear of
>>many E failures is simply because there are not as many "old" ones out there
>>compared to the number of D's out there. What are we going to blame when
>>the E's start to get old and get used to beyond what they should be in time,
>>etc. and start to blow?
>>
>>Heinz
>>
>>
>>> Trying to kill this tire myth is like trying to kill a boa constrictor
>>with
>>> a straw. We are talkin about approx $20 per tire to change from D rated
>>> tires to all steel E rated ones. If there is even the slightest chance of
>>> Wes Caulan being right can you really afford to not take his advice? I
>>will
>>> spend $120 any day to avoid a blowout or worse. Wait until you get the
>>bill
>>> for the coach repairs if you ever have a blow out.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Here is what Wes said:
>>> "In the early 1980's GM replaced all of its original equipment
>>> polyester-casing load range D tires with Michelin All-steel load range E
>>> RADIAL tires. It was not in the 1970's."
>>>
>>>
>>>

>>> >
>>> >> Then if my logic is logical, why haven't the owners of '73 & '74 models
>>> >> received a recall from GM to replace those non-radial wheels which
>>won't
>>> >> hold
>>> >> up under the stress of the required radial tires?? I missed out on the
>>> >tire
>>> >> recall, having ditched my Generals and bought Michelins with my own
>>money,
>>> >> and now I've replaced their defective wheels.
>>> >
>>> >Lanier,
>>> > IIRC, the "D" => "E" tire recall involved installing steel-belted BIAS
>>PLY
>>> >load-range E tires, not radials. (Probably not steel-sidewalls either,
>>> >FWIW.) In fact one early recall was to install little stickers reminding
>>> >everyone NOT to mount radials. My '75 has such a sticker in the
>>glovebox.
>>> >So, basically, radial tires were never "required".
>>> >
>>> > It was not until late '75 that radial-ready wheels were used, and some
>>> >time after THAT, that GM "reluctantly" (Wes Coughlin's words) installed
>>> >radial tires. Incidentally, one bulletin I have admonishes the dealers
>>that
>>> >unless the customer uses the lone approved Generel "steel-belted" (not
>>> >all-steel) radial tire, GM would disavow any complaints of harsh ride,
>>poor
>>> >tracking (wiggle), or the like.
>>> >
>>> > As late as 1990, Wes Coughlin, while advocating all-steel radial
>>tires,
>>> >was advising a questioner to go find some bias-ply tires if he really
>>wanted
>>> >to eliminate the tendency to follow the grooves in the highway. (cf:
>>"Coach
>>> >Talk", Sept. 1990, published in the GMC Western States' newsletter, pp.
>>3-4)
>>> >
>>> > Having thrown my cup of gasoline on the flames, I retire to my
>>fortified
>>> >keyboard to watch the second act of "Tire Wars".
>>> >;-)
>>> >
>>> >Rick Staples
>>> >'75 Eleganza
>>> >Louisville, CO
>>> >
>>> >
>>> Tom & Marg Warner
>>> Vernon Center NY
>>> 1976 palmbeach
>>> "The beautiful Mohawk Vally"
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Tom & Marg Warner
Vernon Center NY
1976 palmbeach
"The beautiful Mohawk Vally"
 
Great idea Tom. Wonder why we didn't think of this sooner. Hope you
get an answer. I would be interested in what the big "M" says about
tire pressure also.

Bill
'74 GL

>>> clip
Date: Sun, 30 May 1999 20:33:02 -0400 (EDT)
From: Tom Warner
Subject: Re: GMC: Tire Wars

Maybe it is time to get the big boys involved and see what they say. I
sent this to michelin minutes ago>
>>>
_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
 
Tim,
The stock tire that was mounted on the GMC was the 8.75R 16.5 which had
a rolling diameter of aproximately 29.2" or 709 Revs per mile. The list
following show other size tires. You should always check the
manufactures spec's, all tire may differ a little bit. All sizes are approximate!

9.50R 16.5 30.4" diameter 686 Revs per mile
225/75R16 29.4" diameter 706 Revs per mile
245/75R16 30.6" diameter 681 Revs per mile
215/85R16 30.7" diameter 676 Revs per mile
235/85R16 32" diameter 655 Revs per mile

J.R. Wright
GMC GreatLaker
&& Eleganza II
Michigan

>
> J.R. Wright wrote:
 
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