Time to manufacture 6 wheel disc brakes for under $300

[thomas g. warner]

Is this what this is all down to paying over $3000 for a brake mod that
should cost less than $500. Sad.

Looks like the next thing to manufacture is a brake mod kit for under $500.
Right now I am getting remanufactured front calipers for $20. Use them on
all 6 wheels thats $120. Add adapter plates and guess we could get it down
to under $300. Any other ideas? Anyone got a Eldorado rear brake and adapter
for a model?

\

>Jim--
>I purchased the whole package from Leigh Harrison:
> Master cylinder kit (increased capacity)
> Front axle kit (larger calipers)
> Center axle kit with remanufactured hub $2096
>
> Rear axle kit $825
>
> Sensitized vacuum booster $200
>
> Parking brake kit $250
>
> Core charges (refundable) were added ($400 center axle hubs + $100 v.
>booster)
>
> Anderson Automotive (local GMC specialist) did the entire installation for a
>little over $600 labor. I installed new rear bearings at the same time. The
>installation was straight forward with all parts fitting nicely without any
>machine work required. The nuts holding the vacuum booster in place and the
>actuating rod nut caused some confusion ad to how to get at them --- seems the
>later model coaches had these buried in the dash and the only way to get at
them
>is to cut a part of the under dash out. It is not visible but kind of a
strange
>way to put things together (see Gene Fisher's pages--he has a good description
>which I found after we were finished). We thought we had a brake bleeding
problem
>--- soft pedal --- but Leigh assured us to drive it carefully, stop from 20 mph
>about 25 times and the pads would seat themselves and the pedal would firm
up. It
>did!!!
>
>There is a night to day difference in stopping. Pulling my Tracker Toad I
am able
>to stop just as quickly and effortlessly as stopping in my unladen Jeep
Cherokee.
>And there will be no more fade!!! I have not installed the parking brake (next
>week before leaving for Albuquerque) but I'm assured that it will hold even
with
>full power in low range. That is quite an improvement, to say the least.
Now I
>won't have to carry that heavy anchor and chain for my wife to throw out in
panic
>situations.
>
>As you can tell from the above, I'm sold on the brakes and Harrison's
package. In
>fact so sold that the 4-bag suspension from Harrison is next after Albuquerque.
>
>See you in Albuquerque???
>
>Gary
>North Bend, Oregon Coast
>
>
>

>
>> Gary,
>> I'm interested in better brakes and wondered about any improvements you found
>> with the Harrison brakes. How much do they cost and how hard/how much
time to
>> install? Thanks,
>> Jim
>
>
>
>
>

 

[marcus mcgee]

Perhaps we should contact Baer or Brembo to see if they have such an animal. Who
knows, we could even end up with something grooved and cross drilled for cooling

Marcus.

> In a message dated 9/15/99 1:13:42 AM Eastern Daylight Time, warner

>
> > Anyone got a Eldorado rear brake and adapter
> > for a model?
>
> Tom!
> I was reading what Gary paid for his brake system and said there is no way I
> could afford that system. I have some feelers out for 78 Eldorado rotors.
> Looking for a supplier of Rotors without holes drilled so they can be used on
> front and back. They would require enlarging center hole and drilling new
> mounting holes. Jim Wagner, new to list, stopped over today, with a rotor
> (78 Eldo) in which he had the holes welded. He redrilled the rotor after
> filling, enlarged the center hole and he used it on the back of his GMC. He
> also brought over a new 78 eldo rotor from auto zone # 5512 (Aimco brand).
> I had one hub which I had to replace and rather than returning it for the
> core amount, I kept it. We used the old hub to examine the fit of the 78 Eldo
> rotor. If we could get a rotor without mounting holes drilled, necessary
> enlarging of center hole and drilling would not be very hard!.
>
> Scott NEHODA'S
> BACK YARD
>
>

 

[chuck blanford]

OK Tom. You made me a believer with the excellent puller that you
engineered and produced at an attractive, affordable price. Put me down for
a "Warner" 6 Wheel Disk Brake system!

Chuck
77 Kingsley
North Idaho

>Is this what this is all down to paying over $3000 for a brake mod that
>should cost less than $500. Sad.
>
>Looks like the next thing to manufacture is a brake mod kit for under $500.
>Right now I am getting remanufactured front calipers for $20. Use them on
>all 6 wheels thats $120. Add adapter plates and guess we could get it down
>to under $300. Any other ideas? Anyone got a Eldorado rear brake and
adapter
>for a model?

>>I purchased the whole package from Leigh Harrison:
>> Master cylinder kit (increased capacity)
>> Front axle kit (larger calipers)
>> Center axle kit with remanufactured hub $2096
>> Rear axle kit $825
>> Sensitized vacuum booster $200
>> Parking brake kit $250
>> Core charges (refundable) were added ($400 center axle hubs + $100
v.
>>booster)
>> Anderson Automotive (local GMC specialist) did the entire installation
for a
>>little over $600 labor.

 

[blank]

Gee, what happened to supporting GMC vendors? Before you rush to judgement
on Leigh's brake system, take a long hard look at it(there are a few pics on
the "Marion" page of my site). I doubt seriously that his cost of
manufacture is anywhere close to $500, not to mention the R&D time he put
into it. It's not just hanging rebuilt front calipers on the other four
wheels - just check out the rotor and caliper on the front bogie for
starters. All of his stuff bolts right up, no muss, no fuss. Contrast that
with the TSM conversion, which will have you scratching your head for
days(right Emery?).

Sure you can probably put together a COMPLETE rear disk brake conversion for
less than $1,000, but not under $500. Just don't even begin to believe that
it will be the equal of Leigh Harrison's system. My coach stops better with
the TSM conversion than any stock braked GMC I've ever been in, but it
doesn't hold a candle to Leigh's coach. Also remember the $1,000 will just
be the cost of parts, no profit in there to cover silly things like product
liability insurance.

My $.02,
Patrick

>
> Is this what this is all down to paying over $3000 for a
> brake mod that should cost less than $500. Sad.
>
> Looks like the next thing to manufacture is a brake mod kit
> for under $500. Right now I am getting remanufactured front
> calipers for $20. Use them on all 6 wheels thats $120. Add
> adapter plates and guess we could get it down to under $300.
> Any other ideas? Anyone got a Eldorado rear brake and adapter
> for a model?

 

[jim bounds1]

Marcus,

You know I am one of the first that will run the gauntlet and try new stuff
and I am also in the alusive search for better brakes but I want to just
say that the brake system is not the electrical or plumbing systems. One
miss calculated component can lead to catestrophic results.

It has been known for some years that a standard Toronado rotor filled &
redrilled could be used on the front and without much modification on a
rear system. The problem has always been trying to find a machine shop
that would assume the liability on welding and center drilling of a rotor.
The heat and stresses involved will cause failure if not done properly, any
machine shop that understands the laibility involved will not do the work.
Likewise, if I were to modify brake components in this manny, I would be
taking an unacceptable liability on my companies part.

I am excited that our creative juces are flowing on this and in no way want
to stop it but the trick to this game is to adapt something off shelf to do
the job. By the letter of the law, we will still be changing the origional
DOT approved device but at least the component, in it's use and intention,
will be designed and warrented to be acceptable to the job, ie. you will
have at least 1/2 a leg to stand on!

The research, testing, and insurance is what drives the cost of parts such
as these sky high. An off the shelf rotor is reasonably priced because
with thousands being made the associated costs can be spread out to where
they are reasonable. A limited production would have to have higher per
part pricing to pay for the tooling and the other stuff.

Lets all keep our eyes open and keep thinking about this issue. I would
suggest you think in the direction of off shelf for putting a kit together.
I agree that the current kits out there are pretty pricey but if people
like Leigh Harrison are willing to stick their neck out there with brake
mods, you may want to ponder the value in buying one of their set ups!

I am certainly not closed mind to this or any other mod issue but I am
leaning toward sensitized boosters, standby vacuum motor assemblies and
making the OEM set up the best it can be. I see less liability and more
reliability.

I know I will probobly stir up a hornets nest with this post but I always
try to only state thinks I know first hand and I tried to get someone to
fill & drill rotors several years ago to no avail.

Jim Bounds
- ----------------------

P.S. We are closed today, can you tell I have too much time on my hands!!

>Perhaps we should contact Baer or Brembo to see if they have such an
animal. Who
>knows, we could even end up with something grooved and cross drilled for
cooling
>
>Marcus.
>

>
>> In a message dated 9/15/99 1:13:42 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
warner

>>
>> > Anyone got a Eldorado rear brake and adapter
>> > for a model?
>>
>> Tom!
>> I was reading what Gary paid for his brake system and said there is no
way I
>> could afford that system. I have some feelers out for 78 Eldorado rotors.
>> Looking for a supplier of Rotors without holes drilled so they can be
used on
>> front and back. They would require enlarging center hole and drilling new
>> mounting holes. Jim Wagner, new to list, stopped over today, with a rotor
>> (78 Eldo) in which he had the holes welded. He redrilled the rotor after
>> filling, enlarged the center hole and he used it on the back of his GMC.
He
>> also brought over a new 78 eldo rotor from auto zone # 5512 (Aimco brand).
>> I had one hub which I had to replace and rather than returning it for the
>> core amount, I kept it. We used the old hub to examine the fit of the 78
Eldo
>> rotor. If we could get a rotor without mounting holes drilled, necessary
>> enlarging of center hole and drilling would not be very hard!.
>>
>> Scott NEHODA'S
>> BACK YARD
>>
>>
>
>
>

 

[bartz paul]

Gee, isn't it funny that some people actually practice what they
preach??????

If you saw Leigh's parts list and priced the items, $500 would net you just
a little more than two calipers, and I'm not talking rebuilt/remanufactured
ones.

Paul Bartz

From: Patrick.Flowers
[mailto:Patrick.Flowers]
Sent: Wednesday, September 15, 1999 8:52 AM

Gee, what happened to supporting GMC vendors? Before you rush to judgement
on Leigh's brake system, take a long hard look at it (there are a few pics
on the "Marion" page of my site). I doubt seriously that his cost of
manufacture is anywhere close to $500, not to mention the R&D time he put
into it. It's not just hanging rebuilt front calipers on the other four
wheels - just check out the rotor and caliper on the front bogie for
starters. All of his stuff bolts right up, no muss, no fuss. Contrast that
with the TSM conversion, which will have you scratching your head for
days(right Emery?).
Sure you can probably put together a COMPLETE rear disk brake conversion for
less than $1,000, but not under $500. Just don't even begin to believe that
it will be the equal of Leigh Harrison's system. My coach stops better with
the TSM conversion than any stock braked GMC I've ever been in, but it
doesn't hold a candle to Leigh's coach. Also remember the $1,000 will just
be the cost of parts, no profit in there to cover silly things like product
liability insurance.

Is this what this is all down to paying over $3000 for a brake mod that
should cost less than $500. Sad.
Looks like the next thing to manufacture is a brake mod kit for under $500.
Right now I am getting remanufactured front calipers for $20. Use them on
all 6 wheels thats $120. Add adapter plates and guess we could get it down
to under $300.
Any other ideas? Anyone got a Eldorado rear brake and adapter for a model?

 

[bartz paul]

Scott:

All of Leigh's parts are new and not rebuilt/remanufactured ones. New
prices are always considerably higher than rebuilt/remanufactured pricing.
Therefore, rear disc brakes for $500 is unrealistic.

Paul Bartz

From: Adohen [mailto:Adohen]
Sent: Wednesday, September 15, 1999 10:30 AM

In a message dated 9/15/99 10:20:27 AM Eastern Daylight Time,

> Gee, isn't it funny that some people actually practice what they
> preach??????
>
> If you saw Leigh's parts list and priced the items, $500 would net you
just
> a little more than two calipers, and I'm not talking
rebuilt/remanufactured
> ones.
>
Hi Paul!

I don't understand this comment, can you elucidate on it somewhat?

Scott NEHODA'S
BACK YARD

 

[bright walter]

Would this brake system include emergency brake? I mean the conventional
cable actuated type? Could it be done on all 4 rear wheels?

Tom, I know my mid 70's T-Bird had optional 4 wheel discs driven by the
power steering, because the vacuum boost was insufficient on such a heavy
car in 4 wheel disc form. What about a power steering pump powered drum set
up? Maybe it could be made to generate more braking power than vacuum
without the need to heavily modify the rear set up (it would also keep the
emergency/parking brake that the NJ vehicle inspection people adore). Just
new hoses and wheel cylinders. The mod would be in the engine compartment.
We already have a steering pump and they (the GM unit) is very reliable too.
walter bright, 76 GB.



>Looks like the next thing to manufacture is a brake mod kit for under $500.
>Right now I am getting remanufactured front calipers for $20. Use them on
>all 6 wheels thats $120. Add adapter plates and guess we could get it down
>to under $300. Any other ideas? Anyone got a Eldorado rear brake and
adapter
>for a model?

 

[bartz paul]

Scott:

Do you not remember (no, don't tell me CRS got you again ) all the
discussion back in March and April, complete with part numbers, about a much
cheaper alternative system using 76-78 El Dorado backing plates??????? All
six wheels for ~ $1000.

Trick is trying to find the backing plates.

Paul Bartz

From: Adohen [mailto:Adohen]
Sent: Wednesday, September 15, 1999 12:11 PM

I guess the only way I would be able to afford Harrisons brake systems is to
sell the GMC, but at least it would be new. The brake system would also
take up less space. I probably would be able to spend up to $600.00 for
rear brakes but not much more. It is the same old story, those that have,
get, and those that don't, make do. I seem to be stuck between a rock and a
hard place trying to make things do! Those that can afford purchasing off
the shelf stuff will continue and those of us that can't, will pursue other
avenues. Fortunately, we have this forum to banter around the pioneering
spirit. The question about liability is somewhat of a misnomer, how many
out there driving with rusted brake lines, rotted frames, bad ball joints,
older tires. If I or someone else comes up with a cheaper disc brake
component system, that has a reasonable chance of performing flawlessly over
brake drums, I hope it gets posted. Squelching something over liability
issues seems to run the gamete, who's fault is it if the powermaster system
fails after one of us installs it! Or the vacuum booster? Lowering the
steering wheel? Installing 80 mm calipers? Magnafluxing and grinding front
hubs? The old adage using these parts is at your own risk, this is what I
did seems to apply, what you do is up to you and at your risk!

 

[blank]

>
> The question about liability is somewhat of a misnomer,
> how many out there driving with rusted brake lines,
> rotted frames, bad ball joints, older tires. If I or
> someone else comes up with a cheaper disc brake
> component system, that has a reasonable chance of
> performing flawlessly over brake drums, I hope it gets
> posted. Squelching something over liability issues
> seems to run the gamete, who's fault is it if the
> powermaster system fails after one of us installs it!

Scott, you're confusing two separate issues here. Read Jim Bounds' post
again and maybe it'll be clearer. When you jump from "purchasing" to
"manufacturing" the rules change big time. Like Jim said, if you can put
together a system by using off-the-shelf parts or parts made by other
manufacturers, you shift most(but not all) of the exposure to the
manufacturers. Garage owners do have a hefty liability exposure and I'm
sure Jim has some horror stories he could share. When tragedies happen,
survivors often look for scapegoats and lawyers look around for deep
pockets. Product Liability Law has been a cash cow for the US civil
justice system for nearly four decades. It's relatively easy to convince a
jury of negligence on the part of a manufacturer(even the fact that a
product was improved is often used as evidence that the previous version was
"faulty").

There's a tremendous difference between me buying a powermaster and
installing it on my own coach vs. me manufacturing a braking system and then
selling it to 100 other coach owners. First, look at what underwriters like
to call the "exposure base" - the first example has an exposure base of 1
unit, the second example 100 units(that's oversimplified for discussion's
sake) - roughly 100 times more exposure before you even start discussing the
difference in liability. As an individual maintaining my coach, there's
very little legal liability assumed - US civil law just doesn't address
it(probably because there ain't much money there for the lawyers to go after
and they make the laws). When you buy a used vehicle, you assume some risk
just by the knowledge that this vehicle has changed since it left the
showroom new, just like you assume some risk of injury by getting those
foul-line box seats at a baseball game. However, when you manufacture a
product, there's volumes of civil law that applies to you.

It may not seem fair and IMO, there's a lot wrong with the system, but we
can't fix it here.

My $.02,
Patrick

 

[blank]

Maybe we need to get after TSM again about making the larger backing plates.
They will sell any of their components separately. Last I heard, they were
beginning to change their tune as the market was bigger than they thought.
I can't imagine that it would be that tough to reprogram the plasma cutter
to make the bigger piece.

Patrick

>
> Trick is trying to find the backing plates.
>
> Paul Bartz

 

[bartz paul]

Scott:

Does this help your memory????

Paul

From: Bartz, Paul [mailto:s9d3452]
Sent: Thursday, June 03, 1999 1:34 PM
Subject: RE: GMC: Rear Disk Brake Conversion Parts

Bill:
We previously corresponded May 19th on the 80 mm caliper upgrade parts for
the front wheels. Some updates to that list of AutoZone parts are: caliper
bolt p/n H5004 @ $1.79 and master cylinder p/n 10-1668.
One option for converting to rear disc brakes is using 76-78 Cadillac El
Dorado rear wheel backing plates as the basis to mount the caliper's.
Enlarging the center hole (2.250" with a 45 degree by 1/16" chamfer on the
back side) and elimination of the dust shield on the backing plate is
required, as well as a slight notching of the backing plate to clear the
swing arm.
The rotor requires locating and drilling three new holes (same size as
existing) for the mounting bolts.
Additional parts, from Autozone (price does not include tax), you'll need to
change over to rear disc brakes on the rear wheels are:
2 ea Banjo bolt, p/n 313940, $1.99
1 ea Caliper, left front rear axle, p/n 90185, $12.99 + core
charge ($17.00)
1 ea right front rear axle, p/n 90184, price same
as above
1 ea Caliper, left rear rear axle, p/n 90557, $73.94 + core charge
($70.00)
1 ea right rear rear axle, p/n 90553, $73.94 + core charge
($70.00)
8 ea mounting bolt, p/n H5002, $3.39
1 ea Brake pad set (front rear axle), p/n 0524, $26.99 (these are
Performance Friction carbon metallic pads)
1 ea Brake pad set (rear rear axle), p/n 25265, $6.49 (these are not
Performance Friction carbon metallic pads)
4 ea Flexible hose, p/n 77226, $9.99
2 ea bracket, left side p/n 3757443, $8.20
2 ea bracket, right side, p/n 10257203, $8.20
4 ea bracket clip, p/n H1457, $1.29
4 ea jam nut (don't have AutoZone number for
this)
4 ea Brake line, 3/16 x 20", p/n H320, $2.49

From: Adohen [mailto:Adohen]
Sent: Wednesday, September 15, 1999 1:05 PM

In a message dated 9/15/99 12:18:05 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

Do you not remember (no, don't tell me CRS got you again ) all
the discussion back in March and April, complete with part numbers, about a
much cheaper alternative system using 76-78 El Dorado backing plates???????
All six wheels for ~ $1000.

Hi Paul!
Hell no I don't remember, somebody have a kit? I'll look in the
archives. How come we don't have a kit put together so everybody can do
this easily and affordable? Tom's post is well recieved here: "Time to
manufacture 6 wheel disc brakes for under $300 " . I agree and will help
where possible.

 

[blank]

Scott,

If I'm not mistaken(and I'm sure someone will correct me if I am), the
front rotors with four holes will work on the rear without any modification.
The trick then is to find the Eldo backing plates. I know that Zeb Frady
sells replacement front rotors for $90(nope, I don't know who makes 'em) and
I think that Cinnabar might even be less than that. I know that's probably
twice what you can pick up Eldo rotors for, but no welding or machining is
required.

Patrick

> I'm still looking for 78 eldo rotors without mounting holes,
> if you would like to use them, they might fit the GMC set
> up if you drill holes to make them mount to hub and enlarge
> the center hole. Is that better? Anybody have an idea of
> where to look? I don't like the thought of welding the holes!

 

[loren \(skip\) newhouse]

> Scott,

In addition to what Paul forwarded, here is message 2 & 3

>
>
> Subject: RE: GMC: Rear Disk Brake Conversion Parts
>
> Bill:
> We previously corresponded May 19th on the 80 mm caliper upgrade parts for
> the front wheels. Some updates to that list of AutoZone parts are: caliper
> bolt p/n H5004 @ $1.79 and master cylinder p/n 10-1668.
> One option for converting to rear disc brakes is using 76-78 Cadillac El
> Dorado rear wheel backing plates as the basis to mount the caliper's.
> Enlarging the center hole (2.250" with a 45 degree by 1/16" chamfer on the
> back side) and elimination of the dust shield on the backing plate is
> required, as well as a slight notching of the backing plate to clear the
> swing arm.
> The rotor requires locating and drilling three new holes (same size as
> existing) for the mounting bolts.
> Additional parts, from Autozone (price does not include tax), you'll need to
> change over to rear disc brakes on the rear wheels are:
> 2 ea Banjo bolt, p/n 313940, $1.99
> 1 ea Caliper, left front rear axle, p/n 90185, $12.99 + core
> charge ($17.00)
> 1 ea right front rear axle, p/n 90184, price same
> as above
> 1 ea Caliper, left rear rear axle, p/n 90557, $73.94 + core charge
> ($70.00)
> 1 ea right rear rear axle, p/n 90553, $73.94 + core charge
> ($70.00)
> 8 ea mounting bolt, p/n H5002, $3.39
> 1 ea Brake pad set (front rear axle), p/n 0524, $26.99 (these are
> Performance Friction carbon metallic pads)
> 1 ea Brake pad set (rear rear axle), p/n 25265, $6.49 (these are not
> Performance Friction carbon metallic pads)
> 4 ea Flexible hose, p/n 77226, $9.99
> 2 ea bracket, left side p/n 3757443, $8.20
> 2 ea bracket, right side, p/n 10257203, $8.20
> 4 ea bracket clip, p/n H1457, $1.29
> 4 ea jam nut (don't have AutoZone number for
> this)
> 4 ea Brake line, 3/16 x 20", p/n H320, $2.49
>

Paul,

Thank you very much for the detailed list of parts. I do have a few questions
that would help me clarify things:

caliper bolt p/n H5004 @ $1.79

Is this new number for the H5002 bolt referred to below?

and master cylinder p/n 10-1668.

Is this the P-30 master cylinder?

.... 76-78 Cadillac El Dorado rear wheel backing plates .... Enlarging the
center hole (2.250" with a 45 degree by 1/16" chamfer on the back side) ....

Do the backing plate mounting bolt holes need to be enlarged or moved?

The rotor requires locating and drilling three new holes (same size as
existing) for the mounting bolts.

What is the part number or application for the rotor?

8 ea mounting bolt, p/n H5002, $3.39

Is this the Caliper mounting bolt? Is this the one that is replaced by the H5004
part?

2 ea bracket, left side p/n 3757443, $8.20
2 ea bracket, right side, p/n 10257203, $8.20
4 ea bracket clip, p/n H1457, $1.29

What are these brackets used for?

4 ea jam nut (don't have AutoZone number for

What is the jam nut used for?

4 ea Brake line, 3/16 x 20", p/n H320, $2.49

Where is the brake line used?

Sorry for all the questions but I am trying to visualize how it all fits
together.

Dave 73 Sequoia
Dave:

Answers to your questions:

1. Yes it is.
2. Yes it is.
3. No they don't. Machining is only required to allow the backing plate to
fit over the axle shaft.
4. Sorry, I overlooked listing the rotor. It is AutoZone p/n 5512, $36.94.

5. Yes it is.
6. The bracket restrains the flexible hose where it joins the steel line.
7. Jam nut secures the flexible hose to the bracket.
8. Brake line goes from the T hose, mounted on top of the rear wheel center
casting, to the flexible hose connection.

If interested in saving a little money, when you obtain your backing plates also
get the calipers. They can be turned in when purchasing caliper's and eliminate
the core charge.

If the rotors are in decent shape and within tolerance, get them also. They can
be cleaned up and used in lieu of purchasing new one's. I'm told that "aged"
rotor's have a hardness greater than new one's.

Paul Bartz

Hope this helps, Skip

 

[bartz paul]

Patrick:

I'm told that you can't get there!

The front rotor center hole is larger than what the rear hub needs.

Paul Bartz

From: Patrick.Flowers
[mailto:Patrick.Flowers]
Sent: Wednesday, September 15, 1999 1:37 PM

Scott,

If I'm not mistaken (and I'm sure someone will correct me if I am), the
front rotors with four holes will work on the rear without any modification.
The trick then is to find the Eldo backing plates.
Patrick

I'm still looking for 78 eldo rotors without mounting holes, if you would
like to use them, they might fit the GMC set up if you drill holes to make
them mount to hub and enlarge the center hole. Is that better? Anybody
have an idea of where to look? I don't like the thought of welding the
holes!

 

[blank]

I wonder if it's necessary for the rotor center hole to fit the hub tightly?
I don't recall the TSM rotors being that close a fit - but they also kept
the 8-bolt arrangement. Do you know if the bolt circle is the same?

I've got an old drum and rotor in the shop - I think I'll dig them out and
have a look tonight.

Patrick

>
> The front rotor center hole is larger than what the rear hub needs.
>
> Paul Bartz
>
> From: Patrick.Flowers
> [mailto:Patrick.Flowers]
> Sent: Wednesday, September 15, 1999 1:37 PM
>
> If I'm not mistaken (and I'm sure someone will correct me if
> I am), the front rotors with four holes will work on the
> rear without any modification.

 

[jim bounds1]

Scott,

I agree and it would be wrong to not bring up an idea because of the
liability issue. I have tried and will continue to try stuff that may be
considered unusual because it is. I love to hear about new ideas! I will
though tell you that before I recommend or do work for someone I will be
sure it is reliable and safe!

I installed a blind that is part of the wall! It really needs some work
but I think it is a good first step. I want other people to look at it,
pick it apart and then a better one will emerge or maybe it will be scraped
all together.

Some of the best upgrades I have seen have come out of wild ideas that were
refined and that is called creativity!

I've seen stuff roll in that I swear would not make it around the block but
that was worn out stuff. If I go in there modify and cobble up something,
I do have a responsibility and take mods and repairs seriously.

I have an old cartoon on the wall in my garage, it shows a beautifully
restored model T passing a candy apple blown T bucket. One driver said,
"lousey butcher" the other said, "stupid purist". I think I'm a bit of both!

Jim Bounds
- ----------------------------

>
>
>I guess the only way I would be able to afford Harrisons brake systems is to
>sell the GMC, but at least it would be new. The brake system would also
>take up less space. I probably would be able to spend up to $600.00 for
rear
>brakes but not much more. It is the same old story, those that have, get,
>and those that don't, make do. I seem to be stuck between a rock and a hard
>place trying to make things do! Those that can afford purchasing off the
>shelf stuff will continue and those of us that can't, will pursue other
>avenues. Fortunately, we have this forum to banter around the pioneering
>spirit. The question about liability is somewhat of a misnomer, how many
>out there driving with rusted brake lines, rotted frames, bad ball joints,
>older tires. If I or someone else comes up with a cheaper disc brake
>component system, that has a reasonable chance of performing flawlessly over
>brake drums, I hope it gets posted. Squelching something over liability
>issues seems to run the gamete, who's fault is it if the powermaster system
>fails after one of us installs it! Or the vacuum booster? Lowering the
>steering wheel? Installing 80 mm calipers? Magnafluxing and grinding front
>hubs? The old adage using these parts is at your own risk, this is what I
>did seems to apply, what you do is up to you and at your risk!
>
>Scott NEHODA'S
>BACK YARD
>
>

 

[bruce herrin]

Another thing you have to do with the 76-78 El Dorado backing plates is
to weld some gussets (sp) for strengthening. An old GMC hand told me in
their tests a few years back, that you would twist the backing plates if
you didn't. I have the complete set of parts to put on my coach. I think
I can get pictures of my backing plates if anyone is interested. Might
even be able to get some drawings of the welding that is necessary.

Also make sure you get the little piece that the emergency brake cable
hooks to on the Eldo caliper, you can't buy it new and it doesn't come
with new or rebuilt calipers.

Bruce
77 Palm Beach
Mechanincsburg, PA

- ------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 13:33:05 -0400
From: "Bartz, Paul"
Subject: RE: GMC: Time to manufacture 6 wheel disc brakes for under
$300

Scott:

Does this help your memory????

Paul

From: Bartz, Paul [mailto:s9d3452]
Sent: Thursday, June 03, 1999 1:34 PM
Subject: RE: GMC: Rear Disk Brake Conversion Parts

Bill:
We previously corresponded May 19th on the 80 mm caliper upgrade parts
for
the front wheels. Some updates to that list of AutoZone parts are:
caliper
bolt p/n H5004 @ $1.79 and master cylinder p/n 10-1668.
One option for converting to rear disc brakes is using 76-78 Cadillac El
Dorado rear wheel backing plates as the basis to mount the caliper's.
Enlarging the center hole (2.250" with a 45 degree by 1/16" chamfer on
the

 

[wayne newland]

Bruce

If we could agree on a time (after the storm) would you show me what you
have put together?

Wayne Newland F9300 75 Palm Beach Columbia, Md

> Another thing you have to do with the 76-78 El Dorado backing plates is
> to weld some gussets (sp) for strengthening. An old GMC hand told me in
> their tests a few years back, that you would twist the backing plates if
> you didn't. I have the complete set of parts to put on my coach. I think
> I can get pictures of my backing plates if anyone is interested. Might
> even be able to get some drawings of the welding that is necessary.
>
> Also make sure you get the little piece that the emergency brake cable
> hooks to on the Eldo caliper, you can't buy it new and it doesn't come
> with new or rebuilt calipers.
>
> Bruce
> 77 Palm Beach
> Mechanincsburg, PA
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 13:33:05 -0400
> From: "Bartz, Paul"
> Subject: RE: GMC: Time to manufacture 6 wheel disc brakes for under
> $300
>
> Scott:
>
> Does this help your memory????
>
> Paul
>
> From: Bartz, Paul [mailto:s9d3452]
> Sent: Thursday, June 03, 1999 1:34 PM
> Subject: RE: GMC: Rear Disk Brake Conversion Parts
>
> Bill:
> We previously corresponded May 19th on the 80 mm caliper upgrade parts
> for
> the front wheels. Some updates to that list of AutoZone parts are:
> caliper
> bolt p/n H5004 @ $1.79 and master cylinder p/n 10-1668.
> One option for converting to rear disc brakes is using 76-78 Cadillac El
> Dorado rear wheel backing plates as the basis to mount the caliper's.
> Enlarging the center hole (2.250" with a 45 degree by 1/16" chamfer on
> the

 

[bartz paul]

Bruce:

I know several people who have installed the El Dorado backing plates who
did not do any additional welding, with no ill effects. But you do have to
eliminate the dust shields from them by cutting the spot welds.

Paul Bartz

From: Bruce Herrin
Sent: 9/15/99 10:44 PM

Another thing you have to do with the 76-78 El Dorado backing plates is
to weld some gussets (sp) for strengthening. An old GMC hand told me in
their tests a few years back, that you would twist the backing plates if
you didn't. I have the complete set of parts to put on my coach. I think
I can get pictures of my backing plates if anyone is interested. Might
even be able to get some drawings of the welding that is necessary.

Also make sure you get the little piece that the emergency brake cable
hooks to on the Eldo caliper, you can't buy it new and it doesn't come
with new or rebuilt calipers.

Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 13:33:05 -0400
From: "Bartz, Paul"

Scott:

Does this help your memory????

Paul

From: Bartz, Paul [mailto:s9d3452]
Sent: Thursday, June 03, 1999 1:34 PM
Subject: RE: GMC: Rear Disk Brake Conversion Parts

Bill:
We previously corresponded May 19th on the 80 mm caliper upgrade parts
for
the front wheels. Some updates to that list of AutoZone parts are:
caliper
bolt p/n H5004 @ $1.79 and master cylinder p/n 10-1668.
One option for converting to rear disc brakes is using 76-78 Cadillac El
Dorado rear wheel backing plates as the basis to mount the caliper's.
Enlarging the center hole (2.250" with a 45 degree by 1/16" chamfer on
the