The engine water pump to get, CARDONE Select 55-21118H

Bob Dunahugh

New member
Sep 17, 2012
2,784
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3
As many know. I had a new engine water pump fail on Interstate 40. That had about 1000 miles on it. The front ball bearing locked up. The pump was a ball/ball type. This Cardone Select pump is a roller/ball bearing type. Thus a roller bearing at the front to carry the belt load. Plus the 6 pump veins have the full disk attached to the back. I got it from Jim K at Applied. He said that he would have it here in Tucson today. He did that. And it's absolutely correct. Bob Dunahugh
 
What is the diameter of the impeller?

--
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
 
> What is the diameter of the impeller?

Ken,
I haven't measured mine, but it is about as big as fits in the casting.
OK,
I decided to stop being lazy. I walked all the way out to the shop and across the shop to mine that is waiting to be installed.

4.250 inches with a closed back.

Matt

--
Matt & Mary Colie - '73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan
OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit
 
Ken. 4.25. But the bearing type is the big deal. Bob Dunahugh

________________________________
From: Bob Dunahugh
Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2018 2:32 AM
To: gmclist
Subject: The engine water pump to get, CARDONE Select 55-21118H

As many know. I had a new engine water pump fail on Interstate 40. That had about 1000 miles on it. The front ball bearing locked up. The pump was a ball/ball type. This Cardone Select pump is a roller/ball bearing type. Thus a roller bearing at the front to carry the belt load. Plus the 6 pump veins have the full disk attached to the back. I got it from Jim K at Applied. He said that he would have it here in Tucson today. He did that. And it's absolutely correct. Bob Dunahugh
 
Anyone know what the H means in the part number?
--
1977 Kingsley 455 as stock as it gets except lots of Ragusa parts
 
Looks like the H stands for Heavy Duty.

The part number without the H comes back as standard duty.

--
77 Royale, Rear Dry Bath. 403, 3.55 Final Drive, Lenzi goodies, Patterson carb and dizzy.
Mid Michigan
 
YOU REALLY HAVE TO HAVE THE..... (H).... AT THE END OF THE PART NO TO GET
THE BALL/ ROLLER BEARING VERSION.

In the Cardone online catalog pgs 211 & 212 for the 403 and 455 the :

55-21118 is designated as a "STANDARD PUMP" (ball/ball)

55-21118H is designated as an "OPTIONAL SEVERE DUTY PUMP" (ball/roller)

I have investigated the nomenclature of many sources and found much
confusion and misleading information on these Cardone pumps.

For example Amazon......SEE: https://www.a
mazon.com/Cardone-Select-55-21118-Water-Pump/dp/B000CFF91S
The add describes the non....(H).... pump as
"Manufactured
to original casting specifications; bearing type (ball/roller vs.
ball/ball) and materials meet or exceed original specifications."

Make sure that you use the.... H..... at the end of the part number when
you order..........when you receive make sure the part number on the
bearing is a WR (roller).................not a WB (ball)

JUST SAY'N, EH!

--
Regards,

Tom Pryor
4188 Limerick Dr
Lake Wales, Fl 33859
Cell 248 470 9186

Living on a waterfront is not a matter of life or death. Its more
important than that.
 
> > What is the diameter of the impeller?
>
> Ken,
> I haven't measured mine, but it is about as big as fits in the casting.
> OK,
> I decided to stop being lazy. I walked all the way out to the shop and across the shop to mine that is waiting to be installed.
>
> 4.250 inches with a closed back.
>
> Matt


Excellent. I do not need one but that is what I would go after if I ever need one.
I would order one but I already have enough spares around that I'll never use.

Thanks Matt.

--
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
 
So does anyone know if there are other pumps that meet the Roller/ball bearing requirement besides the Cardone Select?

The Tuff Stuff pumps were mentioned... What about Flow Kooler? Any others?
--
Mark S. '73 Painted Desert,
Manny 1 Ton Front End,
Howell Injection,
Leigh Harrison 4bag and Rear Brakes,
Fort Worth, TX
 
So does anyone know if there are other pumps that meet the Roller/ball
bearing requirement besides the Cardone Select?

The Tuff Stuff pumps were mentioned... What about Flow Kooler? Any others?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


I talked with Both Tuff Stuff and Flow Kooler. Tuff Stuff would not
divulge the Bearing Part number so its not verified...........Flow Kooler
is just not interested!

As far as I can discover, these are the only folks making new pumps with
new entrails, Eh?
--
Regards,

Tom Pryor
4188 Limerick Dr
Lake Wales, Fl 33859
Cell 248 470 9186

Living on a waterfront is not a matter of life or death. Its more
important than that.
 
>
> So does anyone know if there are other pumps that meet the Roller/ball
> bearing requirement besides the Cardone Select?
>
> The Tuff Stuff pumps were mentioned... What about Flow Kooler? Any others?
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> I talked with Both Tuff Stuff and Flow Kooler. Tuff Stuff would not
> divulge the Bearing Part number so its not verified...........Flow Kooler
> is just not interested!
>
> As far as I can discover, these are the only folks making new pumps with
> new entrails, Eh?
> --
> Regards,
>
> Tom Pryor
> 4188 Limerick Dr
> Lake Wales, Fl 33859
> Cell 248 470 9186
>
> Living on a waterfront is not a matter of life or death. Its more
> important than that.
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Newark,CA
jimk
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
 
Tom

What's with the Eh stuff?? :)
You got a Canuck connection?

Mike in NS

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>

> >
> > So does anyone know if there are other pumps that meet the Roller/ball
> > bearing requirement besides the Cardone Select?
> >
> > The Tuff Stuff pumps were mentioned... What about Flow Kooler? Any
> others?
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >
> > I talked with Both Tuff Stuff and Flow Kooler. Tuff Stuff would not
> > divulge the Bearing Part number so its not verified...........Flow Kooler
> > is just not interested!
> >
> > As far as I can discover, these are the only folks making new pumps with
> > new entrails, Eh?
> > --
> > Regards,
> >
> > Tom Pryor
> > 4188 Limerick Dr
> > Lake Wales, Fl 33859
> > Cell 248 470 9186
> >
> > Living on a waterfront is not a matter of life or death. Its more
> > important than that.
> > _______________________________________________
> > GMCnet mailing list
> > Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> > http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
> >
> --
> Jim Kanomata
> Applied/GMC, Newark,CA
> jimk
> http://www.appliedgmc.com
> 1-800-752-7502
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>

--
Michael Beaton
1977 Kingsley 26-11
1977 Eleganza II 26-3
Antigonish, NS

Life is too short to hold a grudge; slash some tires and call it even !
 
Tom,

I really want to thank you for finding that pump and spreading the information. From what I read here it definitely is the item to use for any future
pump replacements on both the 403 and 455. The roller bearing and the full size impeller (4.25") are the real differences of importance to me.

Ken B.
--
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
 
>
> So does anyone know if there are other pumps that meet the Roller/ball
> bearing requirement besides the Cardone Select?
>
> The Tuff Stuff pumps were mentioned... What about Flow Kooler? Any others?
>
>
> I talked with Both Tuff Stuff and Flow Kooler. Tuff Stuff would not
> divulge the Bearing Part number so its not verified...........Flow Kooler
> is just not interested!
>
> As far as I can discover, these are the only folks making new pumps with
> new entrails, Eh?
> --
> Regards,
>
> Tom Pryor
> 4188 Limerick Dr
> Lake Wales, Fl 33859
> Cell 248 470 9186
>
> Living on a waterfront is not a matter of life or death. Its more
> important than that.

Well I did a lot of searching and found the following cross reference. All of these numbers a
"appear" to be the Heavy Duty variety that you want with numbers mostly ending in H or HD. There were 85 pages of vehicles that it fit and most said
w/AC and heavy duty cooling. That said, I did look up the Auto Zone one and it was available by mail only. I do not want to research this any more.


If I am going to get one by mail I would order it from Jim K at Applied GMC. The price would be about the same or cheaper, and you know that you will
get the correct item the first time. There is nothing wrong with Cardone Products which is what I believe he is selling.

Here is the List:

Brands: ADVANCE, ADVANCE/CARQUEST WATER PUMPS, ADVANCE/DRIVEWORKS, AIRTEX AUTOMOTIVE DIVISION, ALL PRO/FMI, ASC INDUSTRIES, ASC INDUSTRIES (FRENCH),
ASC INDUSTRIES (SPANISH), AUTOZONE/ DURALAST-ASC, AUTOZONE/BOSCH, AUTOZONE/CARDONE, BOSCH, CARDONE/CARDONE SELECT, CARQUEST, CARQUEST/CARQUEST WATER
PUMPS, CARQUEST/DRIVEWORKS, CARQUEST/GMB, FMI WATER PUMPS, HYTEC AUTOMOTIVE, MASTER PRO SELECT WATER PUMP, MURRAY TEMPERATURE CONTROL, NOVAPACIFIC,
PARTS MASTER/ASC, PARTS MASTER/FMI, PARTS PLUS NEW WATER PUMPS, UNI-SELECT CAN/PRO SERIES WATER PUMPS, US MOTOR WORKS

Part Numbers: 20039H, 3-455HD, 347014, 51-2164, 55-21118H, 58-295H, 58-297H, 98033, AW1120H, CP1120H, CWP-455HD, NP021120H, PWP-455HD, T3086, US1120H,
WP-455HD

Good Luck

Ken B.

--
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
 
Tom P confronted the pump Mfg to find out where they squire the bearing.
Some would not say, others using US made ones informed Tom .

Sent from my iPhone

>

>>
>> So does anyone know if there are other pumps that meet the Roller/ball
>> bearing requirement besides the Cardone Select?
>>
>> The Tuff Stuff pumps were mentioned... What about Flow Kooler? Any others?
>>
>>
>> I talked with Both Tuff Stuff and Flow Kooler. Tuff Stuff would not
>> divulge the Bearing Part number so its not verified...........Flow Kooler
>> is just not interested!
>>
>> As far as I can discover, these are the only folks making new pumps with
>> new entrails, Eh?
>> --
>> Regards,
>>
>> Tom Pryor
>> 4188 Limerick Dr
>> Lake Wales, Fl 33859
>> Cell 248 470 9186
>>
>> Living on a waterfront is not a matter of life or death. Its more
>> important than that.
>
>
>
> Well I did a lot of searching and found the following cross reference. All of these numbers a
> "appear" to be the Heavy Duty variety that you want with numbers mostly ending in H or HD. There were 85 pages of vehicles that it fit and most said
> w/AC and heavy duty cooling. That said, I did look up the Auto Zone one and it was available by mail only. I do not want to research this any more.
>
>
> If I am going to get one by mail I would order it from Jim K at Applied GMC. The price would be about the same or cheaper, and you know that you will
> get the correct item the first time. There is nothing wrong with Cardone Products which is what I believe he is selling.
>
> Here is the List:
>
> Brands: ADVANCE, ADVANCE/CARQUEST WATER PUMPS, ADVANCE/DRIVEWORKS, AIRTEX AUTOMOTIVE DIVISION, ALL PRO/FMI, ASC INDUSTRIES, ASC INDUSTRIES (FRENCH),
> ASC INDUSTRIES (SPANISH), AUTOZONE/ DURALAST-ASC, AUTOZONE/BOSCH, AUTOZONE/CARDONE, BOSCH, CARDONE/CARDONE SELECT, CARQUEST, CARQUEST/CARQUEST WATER
> PUMPS, CARQUEST/DRIVEWORKS, CARQUEST/GMB, FMI WATER PUMPS, HYTEC AUTOMOTIVE, MASTER PRO SELECT WATER PUMP, MURRAY TEMPERATURE CONTROL, NOVAPACIFIC,
> PARTS MASTER/ASC, PARTS MASTER/FMI, PARTS PLUS NEW WATER PUMPS, UNI-SELECT CAN/PRO SERIES WATER PUMPS, US MOTOR WORKS
>
> Part Numbers: 20039H, 3-455HD, 347014, 51-2164, 55-21118H, 58-295H, 58-297H, 98033, AW1120H, CP1120H, CWP-455HD, NP021120H, PWP-455HD, T3086, US1120H,
> WP-455HD
>
> Good Luck
>
> Ken B.
>
> --
> Ken Burton - N9KB
> 76 Palm Beach
> Hebron, Indiana
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
 
Jim,

My point was that Tom has already done the research and posted it here. You are already stocking and selling them at a reasonable price. Why bother
researching it any more. I did supply the cross reference that I found on the Internet with the information he wanted.
--
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
 
> My point was that Tom has already done the research and posted it here. You are already stocking and selling them at a reasonable price. Why
> bother researching it any more.

Easy. Because I already have a flow kooler pump on my coach that I am happy with, and I'd like to know if it would be prudent to replace it when I
install the new fan setup. I asked about other pumps in case someone else is in the same boat with another brand pump....

--
Mark S. '73 Painted Desert,
Manny 1 Ton Front End,
Howell Injection,
Leigh Harrison 4bag and Rear Brakes,
Fort Worth, TX
 
BTW, I sat on hold myself with flow kooler customer service, and they finally said they would find out and get back to me. When they did, the girl
told me it was a "roller/ball bearing". When I asked her to clarify, she basically said that was the best she could find out.

Researching further, at least in flow kooler's case, their business model is to buy a "quality" pump (whatever that means) then replace the supplied
impeller with their own impeller. The flow kooler pump I have was stamped GMB. I'll try GMB to see if they have any info on the bearings.
--
Mark S. '73 Painted Desert,
Manny 1 Ton Front End,
Howell Injection,
Leigh Harrison 4bag and Rear Brakes,
Fort Worth, TX
 
Mark,

If you are not going to tear into the cooling system or FEAD, leave it alone until you feel like it.
If you can get a macro of the end of the pump shaft, it might have the bearing maker's part number. If it does, that may tell us.
I bought the Cardone pump because it was real convenient to change now. The rest of the engine is in little boxes and neat piles in my barn so
changing a water pump is just not an issue.

Matt
--
Matt & Mary Colie - '73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan
OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit
 
> Mark,
>
> If you are not going to tear into the cooling system or FEAD, leave it alone until you feel like it.
> If you can get a macro of the end of the pump shaft, it might have the bearing maker's part number. If it does, that may tell us.
> I bought the Cardone pump because it was real convenient to change now. The rest of the engine is in little boxes and neat piles in my barn so
> changing a water pump is just not an issue.
>
> Matt

Thanks for the advice, Matt and good idea on the macro. Going to give that a shot when I install the fan.

--
Mark S. '73 Painted Desert,
Manny 1 Ton Front End,
Howell Injection,
Leigh Harrison 4bag and Rear Brakes,
Fort Worth, TX