Problem Moog ball joints

C

charles boyd

New member
Jul 8, 2007
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I ran into that a few years ago with ball joints and posted my findings.

http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/ball-joint-compare/p39635-dsc02815.html

I got no experience with leaving break in oil to many years. I did use Joe Gibbs break in oil and ran it about 1500 miles before changing with no
evident issues.

> After about 500 miles (and too many years) I changed the break in engine oil. There was some metallic grit on the drain plug magnet but none on
> the oil filter medium. Compression in all cylinders was 160 +/- 2 psi.
>
> WIth the coach front end jacked up and the wheels off for mechanical inspection I decided to lube the front end. On the driver side lower ball
> joint it was necessary to firmly hold the grease nozzle onto the zerk fitting or grease would squirt out from the side of the nozzle. The passenger
> side lower ball joint was completely blocked and could not be greased at all. I removed the zerk fitting and it checked out OK. Then I removed the
> base to the zerk fitting and inside the ball joint could see a circular impression where the base fitting had bottomed out in the grease channel.
> Using a diamond blade on a dremel tool I cut notches in the base threads. That solved the problem and I can now easily lube the lower ball joints.
> These Moog ball joints were installed new a few years back. If I had inspected more carefully the first lube job the blobs of grease around the
> zerk fittings would have been obvious. Fortunately the ball joints don't have too many miles.
>
> JP

--
C. Boyd
76 Crestmont
East Tennessee
 
Sir: by cutting slots in the bottom of the zert it will allow grease to get in the ball joint but the end of the zert is still jammed against the
joint and could cause wear or issues. I might advise shortening the overall threads to keep it from touching the ball. On my issue the housing was
thin.

> I ran into that a few years ago with ball joints and posted my findings.
>
> http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/ball-joint-compare/p39635-dsc02815.html
>
> I got no experience with leaving break in oil to many years. I did use Joe Gibbs break in oil and ran it about 1500 miles before changing with no
> evident issues.
>
>

> > After about 500 miles (and too many years) I changed the break in engine oil. There was some metallic grit on the drain plug magnet but none
> > on the oil filter medium. Compression in all cylinders was 160 +/- 2 psi.
> >
> > WIth the coach front end jacked up and the wheels off for mechanical inspection I decided to lube the front end. On the driver side lower
> > ball joint it was necessary to firmly hold the grease nozzle onto the zerk fitting or grease would squirt out from the side of the nozzle. The
> > passenger side lower ball joint was completely blocked and could not be greased at all. I removed the zerk fitting and it checked out OK. Then I
> > removed the base to the zerk fitting and inside the ball joint could see a circular impression where the base fitting had bottomed out in the
> > grease channel. Using a diamond blade on a dremel tool I cut notches in the base threads. That solved the problem and I can now easily lube the
> > lower ball joints. These Moog ball joints were installed new a few years back. If I had inspected more carefully the first lube job the blobs of
> > grease around the zerk fittings would have been obvious. Fortunately the ball joints don't have too many miles.
> >
> > JP

--
C. Boyd
76 Crestmont
East Tennessee
 
Quote:

> Sir: by cutting slots in the bottom of the zert it will allow grease to get in the ball joint but the end of the zert is still jammed against the
> joint and could cause wear or issues. I might advise shortening the overall threads to keep it from touching the ball. On my issue the housing was
> thin.
>

> Thanks for the link to the pics. Your last pic described the ball joint as bad so I presume that you solved the problem by replacing the ball
> joint.
>
> I am concerned that the zerk is pressed against the rotating ball but don't know exactly how the ball joint is constructed internally. The clue
> that I noticed was a circular impression inside the ball joint that matched the end of the zerk fitting. As the impression was circular (rather
> than a scratch mark) I concluded that the contact point did not rotate but was a fixed channel of some kind. So I cut notches rather than shorten
> the threads. I'll take another look at that issue. The only cutaway ball joint pic I could find was a sealed model with a plastic internal cup.
> It was no help.
>
> BTW the break in oil was dark colored which I guess comes from leaving it in too long.

Jp, I know how it is constructed and how it is supposed to work. (I had to, it was my job,) I had the same issue years back. The zerk fitting should
not be interfering with the ball. If it is, the wear can shed metal into the loaded area. The fact that you can see wear means that it has already.
The fact that the fitting did interfere with the ball means the part was tapped too deep by Moog.

A better short term fix would be (I know you really a want to crawl under there again) to use a cut off wheel on a (generic) Dremel tool to remove a
thread from the fitting. When you get that done, pump grease through the fitting before screwing it back in. Mark that ball joint for replacement at
some future date. The fact that it wore that far means it is well worn. Fortunately, the coach weight sits on the ball, so separation is not a big
risk.

Matt

--
Matt & Mary Colie - '73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan
OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit
 
> Jp, I know how it is constructed and how it is supposed to work. (I had to, it was my job,) I had the same issue years back. The zerk fitting
> should not be interfering with the ball. If it is, the wear can shed metal into the loaded area. The fact that you can see wear means that it has
> already. The fact that the fitting did interfere with the ball means the part was tapped too deep by Moog.
>
> Matt

I've had issues with my lower ball joint on the driver side. It had been replaced sometime in the past (>21 years ago). During my ownership, I
enlarged the mounting bolt hole (a no no the way I did it according to Mr. Lenzi) to accommodate larger bolts. A few years ago I noticed that the zerk
fitting was loose enough to fall out. I could not get it back in (threads stripped?). Turns out it is a special zerk that is unobtainable (also
according to Lenzi). So I decided to install a new ball joint and found that the new one would not seat properly. They have to seat properly in
order to support the weight of the front of the coach. So I reinstalled the old one that did seem to seat correctly. You could wobble the new one
slightly. I have idea why that was the case with the new Moog joint. So in order to leave on a trip I JB Welded the zerk back in place. That worked
for a few years. It came loose again during the last grease job. So now I think I will have to remove the control arm and have it reworked to get a
new ball joint installed and seated correctly. I am currently paranoid about control arm failures as I am about fires.

FYI Coach is now resting in its new uncompleted home. It doesn't want to leave after spending the winter outside in my driveway. In fact it decided
to report to me that its brakes need help.

--
Richard
76 Palm Beach
SE Michigan
www.PalmBeachGMC.com


Coop Roller Cam 455, Howell TBI + EBL, 3.42 FD, Quadra Bag, Macerator, Lenzi stuff, Manny Tranny etc.
 
Richard
The zirc fittings come in many sizes of thread size.
Pipe thread, metric thread, sae thread and others.

I am sure that you can easily drill and tap the hole for a slightly larger thread size to solve your problem.

Emery Stora

>

>> Jp, I know how it is constructed and how it is supposed to work. (I had to, it was my job,) I had the same issue years back. The zerk fitting
>> should not be interfering with the ball. If it is, the wear can shed metal into the loaded area. The fact that you can see wear means that it has
>> already. The fact that the fitting did interfere with the ball means the part was tapped too deep by Moog.
>>
>> Matt
>
> I've had issues with my lower ball joint on the driver side. It had been replaced sometime in the past (>21 years ago). During my ownership, I
> enlarged the mounting bolt hole (a no no the way I did it according to Mr. Lenzi) to accommodate larger bolts. A few years ago I noticed that the zerk
> fitting was loose enough to fall out. I could not get it back in (threads stripped?). Turns out it is a special zerk that is unobtainable (also
> according to Lenzi). So I decided to install a new ball joint and found that the new one would not seat properly. They have to seat properly in
> order to support the weight of the front of the coach. So I reinstalled the old one that did seem to seat correctly. You could wobble the new one
> slightly. I have idea why that was the case with the new Moog joint. So in order to leave on a trip I JB Welded the zerk back in place. That worked
> for a few years. It came loose again during the last grease job. So now I think I will have to remove the control arm and have it reworked to get a
> new ball joint installed and seated correctly. I am currently paranoid about control arm failures as I am about fires.
>
> FYI Coach is now resting in its new uncompleted home. It doesn't want to leave after spending the winter outside in my driveway. In fact it decided
> to report to me that its brakes need help.
>
> --
> Richard
> 76 Palm Beach
> SE Michigan
> www.PalmBeachGMC.com
>
>
> Coop Roller Cam 455, Howell TBI + EBL, 3.42 FD, Quadra Bag, Macerator, Lenzi stuff, Manny Tranny etc.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
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> Richard
> The zirc fittings come in many sizes of thread size.
> Pipe thread, metric thread, sae thread and others.
>
> I am sure that you can easily drill and tap the hole for a slightly larger thread size to solve your problem.
>
> Emery Stora

I'll give that a try. Thanks
--
Richard
76 Palm Beach
SE Michigan
www.PalmBeachGMC.com


Coop Roller Cam 455, Howell TBI + EBL, 3.42 FD, Quadra Bag, Macerator, Lenzi stuff, Manny Tranny etc.
 
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