plan B. I really don't need my ride height sensors/valves anyway. Just simple.

> Now you've added another parameter. I put reaction arms on both coaches and was/am greatly impressed with the better stopping distance. I drve a
> couach with discs on the back and could tell no difference, so I skipped them. Both have sway bars, but they're normal ones. What's a 'reaction
> arm sway bar' please?
>
> --johnny

As Jim Described:

http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/g5831-disc-brakes-2fchuck-aulgur-reaction-arm-install.html

http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/g5481-cad-photos.html

--
Carl Stouffer
'75 ex Palm Beach
Tucson, AZ.
Chuck Aulgur Reaction Arm Disc Brakes, Quadrabags, 3.70 LSD final drive, Lenzi knuckles/hubs, Dodge Truck 16" X 8" front wheels, Rear American Eagles,
Solar battery charging. GMCSJ and GMCMI member
 
The X-PB which I bought to get its refurbished front clip had Caspro sway
bars at all 3 positions. It was impossible to level that coach -- raising
or lowering one side in the rear changed the other side almost the same
amount. I moved the front bar to my X-Birchaven and have been happy with
it, but my son was much happier after removing the rear bars from the X-PB.

That's why I don't think much of the idea of the "Sway Bar Reaction Arms"
-- it's too much of a commitment to sway bars which may prove to not be to
one's liking. Of course, I suppose one could cut the sway bar in the
middle, with a sleeve over the cut. I know Chuck Aulgur once mentioned
that; I don't know whether it's ever been done. It may even be an option
on new units; I dunno.

Ken H.

> > Now you've added another parameter. I put reaction arms on both coaches
> and was/am greatly impressed with the better stopping distance. I drve a
> > couach with discs on the back and could tell no difference, so I skipped
> them. Both have sway bars, but they're normal ones. What's a 'reaction
> > arm sway bar' please?
> >
> > --johnny
>
>
> As Jim Described:
>
> http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/g5831-disc-brakes-
> 2fchuck-aulgur-reaction-arm-install.html
>
> http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/g5481-cad-photos.html
>
 
Ken and others, you are correct when you mention the Caspro sway bars. They
would be fine on a Duce and a half in an off road application. But, they
are far too robust for a GMC. Chuck resolved this by using bars that were
smaller in diameter than the Caspro. They can be campsite leveled with the
GMC ride height systems. They DO stiffen the ride a bit over no sway bars.
I also had conversations with Chuck about a sleeve connector under the
coach for campsite leveling, but as far as I know, he never built any
examples like that before his health failed. Damn shame. What a brilliant
guy he was.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Or
78 GMC ROYALE 403

> The X-PB which I bought to get its refurbished front clip had Caspro sway
> bars at all 3 positions. It was impossible to level that coach -- raising
> or lowering one side in the rear changed the other side almost the same
> amount. I moved the front bar to my X-Birchaven and have been happy with
> it, but my son was much happier after removing the rear bars from the X-PB.
>
> That's why I don't think much of the idea of the "Sway Bar Reaction Arms"
> -- it's too much of a commitment to sway bars which may prove to not be to
> one's liking. Of course, I suppose one could cut the sway bar in the
> middle, with a sleeve over the cut. I know Chuck Aulgur once mentioned
> that; I don't know whether it's ever been done. It may even be an option
> on new units; I dunno.
>
> Ken H.
>
>

>

> > > Now you've added another parameter. I put reaction arms on both
> coaches
> > and was/am greatly impressed with the better stopping distance. I drve a
> > > couach with discs on the back and could tell no difference, so I
> skipped
> > them. Both have sway bars, but they're normal ones. What's a 'reaction
> > > arm sway bar' please?
> > >
> > > --johnny
> >
> >
> > As Jim Described:
> >
> > http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/g5831-disc-brakes-
> > 2fchuck-aulgur-reaction-arm-install.html
> >
> > http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/g5481-cad-photos.html
> >
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
 
The sway bars on my Chuck Aulgur Reaction Arm set-up do not affect leveling at all. For one thing, they are attached to the rotating torque boxes,
which allow them to move independently on each side. They are also of a lighter duty rating than the Caspro bars.

That said, I can't really say that they do a whole lot for sway control and they are mostly there to transmit the brake torque to the frame. The have
an unintended side benefit in that they help to laterally stabilize the rear bogies in much the way the 'tru-track' system does.
--
Carl Stouffer
'75 ex Palm Beach
Tucson, AZ.
Chuck Aulgur Reaction Arm Disc Brakes, Quadrabags, 3.70 LSD final drive, Lenzi knuckles/hubs, Dodge Truck 16" X 8" front wheels, Rear American Eagles,
Solar battery charging. GMCSJ and GMCMI member
 
Carl, that is what I had determined in my installation of Chuck's system
for other GMCers. I did try to level the coaches on my shop floor, and had
no problems doing so with everything new and very tight. But, I never tried
to level one on a campsite, so, I can't comment on that aspect of them. The
design and construction of his system is hands down superior to anything
else that I personally have installed, in my opinion. Others may differ,
and that's O.K. by me.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Or
78 GMC ROYALE 403

> The sway bars on my Chuck Aulgur Reaction Arm set-up do not affect
> leveling at all. For one thing, they are attached to the rotating torque
> boxes,
> which allow them to move independently on each side. They are also of a
> lighter duty rating than the Caspro bars.
>
> That said, I can't really say that they do a whole lot for sway control
> and they are mostly there to transmit the brake torque to the frame. The
> have
> an unintended side benefit in that they help to laterally stabilize the
> rear bogies in much the way the 'tru-track' system does.
> --
> Carl Stouffer
> '75 ex Palm Beach
> Tucson, AZ.
> Chuck Aulgur Reaction Arm Disc Brakes, Quadrabags, 3.70 LSD final drive,
> Lenzi knuckles/hubs, Dodge Truck 16" X 8" front wheels, Rear American
> Eagles,
> Solar battery charging. GMCSJ and GMCMI member
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
 
I have 4 and 3/4 inches of ground clearance just ahead of my rear tires at best. Thus I can't have any air system that lowers from my maximum ride height. So far I've had no issues in 7 years of hitting anything except a very large Coon, and a pig. Both on interstates in Ill. Bob Dunahugh 78 Royale

________________________________
From: Bob Dunahugh
Sent: Monday, July 3, 2017 12:14 AM
To: gmclist
Subject: plan B. I really don't need my ride height sensors/valves anyway. Just simple.

I always have my bags turned off by the isolation valves when on the road. I just need to slightly tilt the drive in shower floor to drain. So two compressors, and 2 solenoid valves to low. Bob Dunahugh 78 Royale
 
Bob, Factory spec on your coach should be 11 and 11/16" to the top of the
slot in the frame behind your rear tires. The front end is higher than
that, so the frame angles upward from rear to front. Your spec seems a bit
low to me. But, I know, we are measuring at different points, and I don't
have a coach in the shop to measure. Pigs on the freeway? We have deer,
elk, antelope, here, but no pigs. Plenty of Racoons, though.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Or
78 GMC ROYALE 403

> I have 4 and 3/4 inches of ground clearance just ahead of my rear tires
> at best. Thus I can't have any air system that lowers from my maximum ride
> height. So far I've had no issues in 7 years of hitting anything except a
> very large Coon, and a pig. Both on interstates in Ill. Bob Dunahugh 78
> Royale
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Bob Dunahugh
> Sent: Monday, July 3, 2017 12:14 AM
> To: gmclist
> Subject: plan B. I really don't need my ride height sensors/valves anyway.
> Just simple.
>
>
> I always have my bags turned off by the isolation valves when on the
> road. I just need to slightly tilt the drive in shower floor to drain. So
> two compressors, and 2 solenoid valves to low. Bob Dunahugh 78 Royale
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
 
Hey Jim

I believe Bob's clearance height is due to the wheelchair ramp he has under-mounted on his coach.

Dennis

> Bob, Factory spec on your coach should be 11 and 11/16" to the top of the
> slot in the frame behind your rear tires. The front end is higher than
> that, so the frame angles upward from rear to front. Your spec seems a bit
> low to me. But, I know, we are measuring at different points, and I don't
> have a coach in the shop to measure. Pigs on the freeway? We have deer,
> elk, antelope, here, but no pigs. Plenty of Racoons, though.
> Jim Hupy
> Salem, Or
> 78 GMC ROYALE 403
>

>
> > I have 4 and 3/4 inches of ground clearance just ahead of my rear tires
> > at best. Thus I can't have any air system that lowers from my maximum ride
> > height. So far I've had no issues in 7 years of hitting anything except a
> > very large Coon, and a pig. Both on interstates in Ill. Bob Dunahugh 78
> > Royale
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: Bob Dunahugh
> > Sent: Monday, July 3, 2017 12:14 AM
> > To: gmclist
> > Subject: plan B. I really don't need my ride height sensors/valves anyway.
> > Just simple.
> >
> >
> > I always have my bags turned off by the isolation valves when on the
> > road. I just need to slightly tilt the drive in shower floor to drain. So
> > two compressors, and 2 solenoid valves to low. Bob Dunahugh 78 Royale
> > _______________________________________________
> > GMCnet mailing list
> > Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> > http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
> >
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org

--
Dennis S
73 Painted Desert 230
Memphis TN Metro
 
I forgot about that. It serves double duty. Ramp and "possum scoop" ( grin)
Jim Hupy

> Hey Jim
>
> I believe Bob's clearance height is due to the wheelchair ramp he has
> under-mounted on his coach.
>
> Dennis
>

> > Bob, Factory spec on your coach should be 11 and 11/16" to the top of the
> > slot in the frame behind your rear tires. The front end is higher than
> > that, so the frame angles upward from rear to front. Your spec seems a
> bit
> > low to me. But, I know, we are measuring at different points, and I don't
> > have a coach in the shop to measure. Pigs on the freeway? We have deer,
> > elk, antelope, here, but no pigs. Plenty of Racoons, though.
> > Jim Hupy
> > Salem, Or
> > 78 GMC ROYALE 403
> >

> >
> > > I have 4 and 3/4 inches of ground clearance just ahead of my rear
> tires
> > > at best. Thus I can't have any air system that lowers from my maximum
> ride
> > > height. So far I've had no issues in 7 years of hitting anything
> except a
> > > very large Coon, and a pig. Both on interstates in Ill. Bob
> Dunahugh 78
> > > Royale
> > >
> > >
> > > ________________________________
> > > From: Bob Dunahugh
> > > Sent: Monday, July 3, 2017 12:14 AM
> > > To: gmclist
> > > Subject: plan B. I really don't need my ride height sensors/valves
> anyway.
> > > Just simple.
> > >
> > >
> > > I always have my bags turned off by the isolation valves when on the
> > > road. I just need to slightly tilt the drive in shower floor to
> drain. So
> > > two compressors, and 2 solenoid valves to low. Bob Dunahugh 78
> Royale
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > GMCnet mailing list
> > > Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> > > http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > GMCnet mailing list
> > Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> > http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
>
> --
> Dennis S
> 73 Painted Desert 230
> Memphis TN Metro
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
 
I personally like the EL11 system " Philosophy " the best. But I would like it to correct to real time conditions quicker. With all the technology
advances, why can't we find a sensor that uses radio altimeter or even laser distances to measure from the frame to the ground? And self adjust with
corrections in a split second? Or a buffered period of time. Will probably need extreamly durable pumps, and even a air chamber for quicker
inflations. And have it run during all driving segments?
And be nice on the comments... I only drive them. I don't engineer the recommendations!!
Scott
Happy Independence Day!!
--
Scott Nutter
1978 Royale Center Kitchen, Patterson 455, switch pitch tranny, 3.21 final drive, Quad bags, tankless water heater.
Houston, Texas
 
Wow! I just got back from Canada. We went up there to help a GMC friend
celebrate his 70th birthday. He has a "Corvette in Cadillac Clothes". It
has such a suspension, only it can be adjusted from the driver's seat.
Electro magnetic stuff. Wow. It is a rocket, but docile when you don't push
it. If you can imagine it, it can be built. All it takes is, time,
determination, and oh yes, cubic money. Baby steps? Like Jerry Work says,
"If GMC coaches were still being built today, we would be on EL 37 today!"
Jim Hupy
Salem, Or
78 GMC ROYALE 403

> I personally like the EL11 system " Philosophy " the best. But I would
> like it to correct to real time conditions quicker. With all the technology
> advances, why can't we find a sensor that uses radio altimeter or even
> laser distances to measure from the frame to the ground? And self adjust
> with
> corrections in a split second? Or a buffered period of time. Will probably
> need extreamly durable pumps, and even a air chamber for quicker
> inflations. And have it run during all driving segments?
> And be nice on the comments... I only drive them. I don't engineer the
> recommendations!!
> Scott
> Happy Independence Day!!
> --
> Scott Nutter
> 1978 Royale Center Kitchen, Patterson 455, switch pitch tranny, 3.21 final
> drive, Quad bags, tankless water heater.
> Houston, Texas
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
 
Jim, you are right. And thanks for not tearing me a new one!
But to answer your response, why is there not a EL 40 +?????
Especially at the low price of technology? There has to be a engineering type out there who can do it.
But my suspicion is that the original(with updates) might be the best.

I do like your wireless system. But I have a very heavy royale, and I want almost instant handling corrections with the ability to go above 100 lbs of
air if needed.

We have new updated everything except the air delivery system. Why????
Every updated air system since the originals seem to be more of a bandaid vs a true fix.

Like I said, I just drive them, and report back to the brains who know how to improve them.
--
Scott Nutter
1978 Royale Center Kitchen, Patterson 455, switch pitch tranny, 3.21 final drive, Quad bags, tankless water heater.
Houston, Texas
 
> Jim, you are right. And thanks for not tearing me a new one!
> But to answer your response, why is there not a EL 40 +?????
> Especially at the low price of technology? There has to be a engineering type out there who can do it.
> But my suspicion is that the original(with updates) might be the best.
>
> I do like your wireless system. But I have a very heavy royale, and I want almost instant handling corrections with the ability to go above 100
> lbs of air if needed.
>
> We have new updated everything except the air delivery system. Why????
> Every updated air system since the originals seem to be more of a bandaid vs a true fix.
>
> Like I said, I just drive them, and report back to the brains who know how to improve them.

Scott,

I guess you haven't been following very closely. Kieth Vasilakes has developed such, but is not ready to release a kit - - Yet.

Matt


--
Matt & Mary Colie - '73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan
OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit
 
I suspect that you could pull your GMC into any shop that does the custom "bagged" cars (you know, the ones that can jump up and down at the whim of
the driver), and get fitted with a system capable of raising or lowering a GMC in pretty short order. Yeah, it would cost more, be more complicated,
and take up a lot more room (mainly because of the size of the holding tank it would require). But the thought of seeing the tail end of my 12,000
pound hot rod moving up, down and (sort of) sideways in real-time might make it all worthwhile. The technology is all there, though mainly because
someone wanted to make an Impala jump a couple feet in the air.
--
Mark Hickey
Mesa, AZ
1978 Royale Center Kitchen
 
There's a saying about bringing home the bacon. I had miss piggy everywhere under the GMC, and Linda's Chevy Uplander. Took the exhaust systems off of both. It's common around DeKalb Ill. to hit domestic pigs according to the highway patrol. If an air ride system ever went down. I'd loose a $1000 aluminum ramp. And any way to get Linda, and her power wheelchair even out. I always say it's like Apollo 13 for our GMC. Failure is NOT an option. And our last 78 GMC went 52000 miles, and 38 states. And never left us to the side of the road. This one needs to do the same thing. An with this GMC. It's been 2 Chinese fuel pumps to get off to a bad start.. Bob Dunahugh

________________________________

I have 4 and 3/4 inches of ground clearance just ahead of my rear tires at best. Thus I can't have any air system that lowers from my maximum ride height. So far I've had no issues in 7 years of hitting anything except a very large Coon, and a pig. Both on interstates in Ill. Bob Dunahugh 78 Royale

________________________________
From: Bob Dunahugh
Sent: Monday, July 3, 2017 12:14 AM
To: gmclist
Subject: plan B. I really don't need my ride height sensors/valves anyway. Just simple.

I always have my bags turned off by the isolation valves when on the road. I just need to slightly tilt the drive in shower floor to drain. So two compressors, and 2 solenoid valves to low. Bob Dunahugh 78 Royale
 
Scott. Our problem is that there just not a lot of 78's out there that were built after Dec of 77.

________________________________
From: Bob Dunahugh
Sent: Tuesday, July 4, 2017 7:30 PM
To: gmclist
Subject: RE: plan B. I really don't need my ride height sensors/valves anyway. Just simple.

There's a saying about bringing home the bacon. I had miss piggy everywhere under the GMC, and Linda's Chevy Uplander. Took the exhaust systems off of both. It's common around DeKalb Ill. to hit domestic pigs according to the highway patrol. If an air ride system ever went down. I'd loose a $1000 aluminum ramp. And any way to get Linda, and her power wheelchair even out. I always say it's like Apollo 13 for our GMC. Failure is NOT an option. And our last 78 GMC went 52000 miles, and 38 states. And never left us to the side of the road. This one needs to do the same thing. An with this GMC. It's been 2 Chinese fuel pumps to get off to a bad start.. Bob Dunahugh

________________________________

I have 4 and 3/4 inches of ground clearance just ahead of my rear tires at best. Thus I can't have any air system that lowers from my maximum ride height. So far I've had no issues in 7 years of hitting anything except a very large Coon, and a pig. Both on interstates in Ill. Bob Dunahugh 78 Royale

________________________________
From: Bob Dunahugh
Sent: Monday, July 3, 2017 12:14 AM
To: gmclist
Subject: plan B. I really don't need my ride height sensors/valves anyway. Just simple.

I always have my bags turned off by the isolation valves when on the road. I just need to slightly tilt the drive in shower floor to drain. So two compressors, and 2 solenoid valves to low. Bob Dunahugh 78 Royale
 
Matt, I have seen something about Keith's system. But like you said, not out for production yet. So until it is, it's just a rumor(that's 35 years of
airline dysfunction/rumor control, we've seen it all). I would think you would know about that.

Bob, your probably right. All the big guys say junk the EL11 and start from scratch. Because all the parts are getting obsolete.

--
Scott Nutter
1978 Royale Center Kitchen, Patterson 455, switch pitch tranny, 3.21 final drive, Quad bags, tankless water heater.
Houston, Texas
 
Scott,

It's NOT a rumor here it is!

http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/g6645-ride-height.html

Note that he has actually run some testing!

http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/ride-height/p55359-ride-height-data.html

Regards,
Rob M.
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
USA '77 Kingsley - TZE 267V100808


-----Original Message-----
From: Scott Nutter

Matt, I have seen something about Keith's system. But like you said, not out for production yet. So until it is, it's just a rumor
(that's 35 years of airline dysfunction/rumor control, we've seen it all). I would think you would know about that.

Bob, your probably right. All the big guys say junk the EL11 and start from scratch. Because all the parts are getting obsolete.

Scott
 
> The wireless system has no ride height sensors, instead relying upon air
> pressure monitoring in the bags. Plus or minus 3 psi. The remote control
> and the air manifold each have wireless modems that communicate constantly
> as long as the ignition key is in "on" or "acc" position. The user selects
> the air pressure required to achieve correct ride height, and programs the
> remote to reflect that pressure. That stores data in the remote. If the
> bags gain or lose as little as 3 psi., the manifold responds by either
> starting the built in ViAir 480 compressor and inflating the bags to preset
> levels, or by releasing air through a exhaust port in the manifold until
> preset pressure is achieved. There are two user selected presettings. One
> for ride height, and one for lowering the rear of the coach to drain the
> holding tanks. User can override all presettings for campsite leveling.
> When ready to leave, all that needs to be done is to push the preset
> button, and normal ride height is restored. If your coach is overloaded for
> short periods, additional pressure can be added to both sides at the same
> time in 10 psi steps with the push of a button as well.
> THE ORIGINAL SYSTEMS ALL USE A TIME DELAY TO RESPOND TO WEIGHT
> TRANSFER AND ROAD CONDITIONS, SOME AS LONG AS 30 SECONDS. But all things
> said, they have a huge "null" point in their sensors. 5/8" in some cases.
> So they miss a bunch of conditions that don't last that long.
> Jim Hupy
> Salem, Or
> 78 GMC ROYALE 403

Thanks for the explanation.

--
Richard
76 Palm Beach
SE Michigan
www.PalmBeachGMC.com


Coop Roller Cam 455, Howell TBI + EBL, 3.42 FD, Quadra Bag, Macerator, Manny Tranny etc.
 
> I am certain that much of this is due to the fact that Chaumière is a 9500# coach and not a 12000# coach that so many are.
> Matt

Hi Matt,

I love your nickname for your coach ... "Je aime beaucoup le nom de Chaumière ... !!"
You can get get them in France in various forms ... ;)

http://www.hotelroomsearch.net/france/chaumi%C3%A8re

scroll down a bit ... ;)

Bye, Daniel

--
Daniel Jacobs, No GMC, but an admirer of them .... We'll see what the future brings ....

Always remember, the world is full of nice people!
So, if you can't find one, be one!
 
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