Generator ?

Thanks That was one of the first things I did.

>
> Check your oil level. There is a low oil shutoff that will shut you down if your oil gets too low. If the level is borderline, it will shut down and
> restart then shut back down again.
> --
> Patti & Jerry Burt
> 73 Gmc 26' Canyon Lands -
> 77 Palm Beach
> Members: FMCA - GMCMI - GMCWS
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
 
My original 6k barbarian in my 77 Royale ALWAYS smelled like shit when it
ran. But once I went through the D.S. checklist it always ran and always
produced. If it’s producing keep it running and the windows closed

Sully
Coachless
Bellevue

On Wed, Jun 6, 2018 at 8:41 PM amansfield1104 <

> Thanks That was one of the first things I did.

> >
> > Check your oil level. There is a low oil shutoff that will shut you down
> if your oil gets too low. If the level is borderline, it will shut down and
> > restart then shut back down again.
> > --
> > Patti & Jerry Burt
> > 73 Gmc 26' Canyon Lands -
> > 77 Palm Beach
> > Members: FMCA - GMCMI - GMCWS
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > GMCnet mailing list
> > Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> > http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
 
Sully, it still runs and produces electricity.
Jim Hupy

> My original 6k barbarian in my 77 Royale ALWAYS smelled like shit when it
> ran. But once I went through the D.S. checklist it always ran and always
> produced. If it’s producing keep it running and the windows closed
>
> Sully
> Coachless
> Bellevue
>
> On Wed, Jun 6, 2018 at 8:41 PM amansfield1104 <

>
> > Thanks That was one of the first things I did.

> > >
> > > Check your oil level. There is a low oil shutoff that will shut you
> down
> > if your oil gets too low. If the level is borderline, it will shut down
> and
> > > restart then shut back down again.
> > > --
> > > Patti & Jerry Burt
> > > 73 Gmc 26' Canyon Lands -
> > > 77 Palm Beach
> > > Members: FMCA - GMCMI - GMCWS
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > GMCnet mailing list
> > > Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> > > http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > GMCnet mailing list
> > Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> > http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
> >
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
 
> I do not know if the motor runs hotter. The area where the fuel pump was mounted ran at 110F open and 160F closed. I measured it several times and it was always about 160F by the fuel pump when it quit.
> On top of the Onan the point cover was a little cooler … 145F.


There has been much speculation about the temperatures inside the compartment when the beast is running. I instrumented the enclosure with thermocouples and recorded the results. You might be surprised that the temperature in the compartment is just a couple tens of degrees over ambient *while the unit is running*. Once the unit is shut down the heat extraction by the flywheel blower ceases and the compartment heat soaks as would be expected.

Taking measurements after the unit has shut down produces results completely unrelated to the conditions while it is running.

There is a chart in the album that shows the temperatures inside the compartment directly above the manifold and also between the compartment insulation and the body. Look at all 5 pics for context:

http://www.jcmco.com/gallery/album29 http://www.jcmco.com/gallery/album29


Jim Miller
1977 Eleganza
1977 Royale
Hamilton, OH
 
That might be what happened as it takes a few minutes to pull out the generator. I assume you had thermal couplers near the fuel pump.

Art

>

>
>> I do not know if the motor runs hotter. The area where the fuel pump was mounted ran at 110F open and 160F closed. I measured it several times and it was always about 160F by the fuel pump when it quit.
>> On top of the Onan the point cover was a little cooler … 145F.
>
>
> There has been much speculation about the temperatures inside the compartment when the beast is running. I instrumented the enclosure with thermocouples and recorded the results. You might be surprised that the temperature in the compartment is just a couple tens of degrees over ambient *while the unit is running*. Once the unit is shut down the heat extraction by the flywheel blower ceases and the compartment heat soaks as would be expected.
>
> Taking measurements after the unit has shut down produces results completely unrelated to the conditions while it is running.
>
> There is a chart in the album that shows the temperatures inside the compartment directly above the manifold and also between the compartment insulation and the body. Look at all 5 pics for context:
>
> http://www.jcmco.com/gallery/album29 http://www.jcmco.com/gallery/album29
>
>
> Jim Miller
> 1977 Eleganza
> 1977 Royale
> Hamilton, OH
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
 
I fell like I move the fuel pump for no reason if the temperature is bot correct.

>

>
>> I do not know if the motor runs hotter. The area where the fuel pump was mounted ran at 110F open and 160F closed. I measured it several times and it was always about 160F by the fuel pump when it quit.
>> On top of the Onan the point cover was a little cooler … 145F.
>
>
> There has been much speculation about the temperatures inside the compartment when the beast is running. I instrumented the enclosure with thermocouples and recorded the results. You might be surprised that the temperature in the compartment is just a couple tens of degrees over ambient *while the unit is running*. Once the unit is shut down the heat extraction by the flywheel blower ceases and the compartment heat soaks as would be expected.
>
> Taking measurements after the unit has shut down produces results completely unrelated to the conditions while it is running.
>
> There is a chart in the album that shows the temperatures inside the compartment directly above the manifold and also between the compartment insulation and the body. Look at all 5 pics for context:
>
> http://www.jcmco.com/gallery/album29 http://www.jcmco.com/gallery/album29
>
>
> Jim Miller
> 1977 Eleganza
> 1977 Royale
> Hamilton, OH
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
 
Might be a coincidence because I never verified it by re installing ( I was
run ragged by my 6k by the time it started to give more than took) my 6 k
in my 77 royale had a circular screen in the float bowl which had become
dislodged. I don’t know if that screen was original or a well fabricated
P.O. custom but one of the last things I did to it before it became hands
off was remove that screen. Iirc it was supposed to be held in place by the
main jet? The issues I was having pointed at fuel starvation and I rigged
up a w/s washer tank on gravity to isolate the fuel pump as a possible
contributor. I had the carb on and of multiple times before I removed that
screen. There were a few other things I did right at the end before it
stopped acting up but the fuel screen sticks out in memory as the last
thing I touched before genvana

Sully

Bellevue

> Sully, it still runs and produces electricity.
> Jim Hupy
>

>
> > My original 6k barbarian in my 77 Royale ALWAYS smelled like shit when it
> > ran. But once I went through the D.S. checklist it always ran and always
> > produced. If it’s producing keep it running and the windows closed
> >
> > Sully
> > Coachless
> > Bellevue
> >
> > On Wed, Jun 6, 2018 at 8:41 PM amansfield1104 <

> >
> > > Thanks That was one of the first things I did.
> > > > On May 28, 2018, at 8:09 PM, Jerry Burt

> > > >
> > > > Check your oil level. There is a low oil shutoff that will shut you
> > down
> > > if your oil gets too low. If the level is borderline, it will shut down
> > and
> > > > restart then shut back down again.
> > > > --
> > > > Patti & Jerry Burt
> > > > 73 Gmc 26' Canyon Lands -
> > > > 77 Palm Beach
> > > > Members: FMCA - GMCMI - GMCWS
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > GMCnet mailing list
> > > > Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> > > > http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > GMCnet mailing list
> > > Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> > > http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > GMCnet mailing list
> > Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> > http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
> >
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
 
Jim,

I note that the temp above the exhaust manifold hovered around 30 C (86 F) and that you ran the test on the 22 of August of 2015. It would be interesting to know what the OAT was when you ran the test.

Regards,
Rob M.
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
USA '77 Kingsley - TZE 267V100808


-----Original Message-----
From: Gmclist [mailto:gmclist-bounces] On Behalf Of Jim Miller
Sent: Wednesday, June 6, 2018 8:52 PM
To: gmclist
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Generator ?

> I do not know if the motor runs hotter. The area where the fuel pump was mounted ran at 110F open and 160F closed. I measured it several times and it was always about 160F by the fuel pump when it quit.
> On top of the Onan the point cover was a little cooler … 145F.

There has been much speculation about the temperatures inside the compartment when the beast is running. I instrumented the enclosure with thermocouples and recorded the results. You might be surprised that the temperature in the compartment is just a couple tens of degrees over ambient *while the unit is running*. Once the unit is shut down the heat extraction by the flywheel blower ceases and the compartment heat soaks as would be expected.

Taking measurements after the unit has shut down produces results completely unrelated to the conditions while it is running.

There is a chart in the album that shows the temperatures inside the compartment directly above the manifold and also between the compartment insulation and the body. Look at all 5 pics for context:

http://www.jcmco.com/gallery/album29 http://www.jcmco.com/gallery/album29

Jim Miller
1977 Eleganza
1977 Royale
Hamilton, OH

_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
 
>
> I note that the temp above the exhaust manifold hovered around 30 C (86 F) and that you ran the test on the 22 of August of 2015. It would be interesting to know what the OAT was when you ran the test.

Hi Rob, it was around 80F during the test; at the time I was really surprised to see how close the compartment temp was to ambient temp while it was in operation - I had expected much higher temperatures as was the common belief on the GMCnet. There was a lot of thought that went into the design of the unit and I am not one to second guess the engineers from Onan and GM that came up with a design that has lasted as long as it has; my GMCs have the stock Bendix pump and solenoid in their original configuration. If compartment temps were a problem for the fuel delivery/induction system then the engineers would have done something different.

I have a long standing suspicion that many of those who are having fuel delivery problems to their Onans are suffering from porous fuel lines that have been degraded over the years by the ridiculous ethanol with which our rulers have adulterated our fuel. I have personally seen two cases of Onans that had chronic fuel problems that were solved by replacing the line to the tank pickup. Outward appearance of these lines showed NO problems but they would not deliver a stream of liquid fuel to the pump inlet. Replacing the line resulted in an immediate resolution to the Onans’ fuel problems.

It is easy enough to prove a porous line - disconnect the pump inlet line from the coach tank and replace it with a short length of new line run outside the compartment to a jerry can. Prime the pump, start the machine and see whether or not it runs correctly.

—Jim

Jim Miller
1977 Eleganza
1977 Royale
Hamilton, OH
 
Jim,

I am currently in Houston until July 31st trying to get a bunch of projects on this side of the Pacific done, if I have time I'll instrument the Onan in my Avion the way you did and see what I get in the Houston Heat.

Regards,
Rob M.
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
USA '77 Kingsley - TZE 267V100808


-----Original Message-----
From: Gmclist [mailto:gmclist-bounces] On Behalf Of Jim Miller
Sent: Wednesday, June 6, 2018 9:37 PM
To: gmclist
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Generator ?

>
> I note that the temp above the exhaust manifold hovered around 30 C (86 F) and that you ran the test on the 22 of August of 2015. It would be interesting to know what the OAT was when you ran the test.

Hi Rob, it was around 80F during the test; at the time I was really surprised to see how close the compartment temp was to ambient temp while it was in operation - I had expected much higher temperatures as was the common belief on the GMCnet. There was a lot of thought that went into the design of the unit and I am not one to second guess the engineers from Onan and GM that came up with a design that has lasted as long as it has; my GMCs have the stock Bendix pump and solenoid in their original configuration. If compartment temps were a problem for the fuel delivery/induction system then the engineers would have done something different.

I have a long standing suspicion that many of those who are having fuel delivery problems to their Onans are suffering from porous fuel lines that have been degraded over the years by the ridiculous ethanol with which our rulers have adulterated our fuel. I have personally seen two cases of Onans that had chronic fuel problems that were solved by replacing the line to the tank pickup. Outward appearance of these lines showed NO problems but they would not deliver a stream of liquid fuel to the pump inlet. Replacing the line resulted in an immediate resolution to the Onans’ fuel problems.

It is easy enough to prove a porous line - disconnect the pump inlet line from the coach tank and replace it with a short length of new line run outside the compartment to a jerry can. Prime the pump, start the machine and see whether or not it runs correctly.

—Jim
 
May be time to celebrate?

Larry Davick

>
> I replaced the coil. Moved the fuel pump and it still did not run for 30 minute when pushed back. I was surprised that the generator started right up even with the fuel pump mounted on the RV frame.
>
> Sick of playing with this generator. Something is heat sensitive. I have two condenser that I can replace. That will be all I could think of.
>
> Well I started to replace the condenser at the points. Guess what it had come lose at the point connection. I tightened the connection. Started it up closed it up and it ran for 30 minutes. It was late so I shut it down and will run it more tomorrow.
>
> Art

>>
>> Art,
>>
>> There is no need to relocate the fuel pump, there are hundreds of Onans that run just fine with the fuel pump where it is.
>>
>> RE: "My coils ohm out right so they should be ok."
>>
>> Not necessarily, the Onan on Double Trouble would run for an hour or so then it would quit. If I opened the door and let it cool down it would run when it got cooler; I'd close the door and it would run for an hour or so and then quit again.
>>
>> I installed a new coil and that fixed the problem.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Rob M.
>> The Pedantic Mechanic
>> Sydney, Australia
>> AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
>> USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
>> USA '77 Kingsley - TZE 267V100808
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Gmclist [mailto:gmclist-bounces] On Behalf Of amansfield1104
>> Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2018 3:58 PM
>> To: gmclist
>> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Generator ?
>>
>> Thanks everyone. The fuel pump has been replace by one that mounts to the same location as the original generator. I’m going to move that pump under the RV to keep it cooler. In the process I will replace the fuel line under the generator.
>>
>> I ordered new points and condensers for the generator just in case that's the problem. My coils ohm out right so they should be ok.
>>
>> This morning the generator cranked right up. Weather not to good right now so I can not work on it.
>>
>> Art

>>>
>>> Check the fuel lines anyway, heat will can cause an vapor lock or you have
>>> a line that has a crack or hole.
>>>
>>>
>>> J.R. Wright
>>> GMC Great Laker
>>> GMC Eastern States
>>> GMCMHI
>>> TZE Zone Restorations
>>> 78 Buskirk Custom 30' Stretch
>>> 75 Avion (Under going Frame up Restoration)
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, May 29, 2018 at 3:08 PM, amansfield1104 <

>>>
>>>> The generator ran for a while when pushed back. The temperature went from
>>>> 110 deg F to 160 deg F. I do not think it is a pinch fuel line. I think
>>>> it is temperature related.
>>>>
>>>> Art

>>>>>

>>>>>
>>>>>> I got it started once but it was running every rough. Earlier today I
>>>> had it running and handling both AC unite. Than I push it back in and it
>>>> ran for a while then quit. Since then it has not run.
>>>>>
>>>>> If it ran for a bit after you pushed it back in then it most likely
>>>> explanation is that the fuel line got pinched.
>>>>>
>>>>> OTOH if it did not run at all after pushing back in then I’d go after
>>>> electrical. I think it would be quite an unlikely coincidence that your
>>>> {points,coil,control board - pick one} failed at the exact moment you
>>>> pushed it back in.
>>>>>
>>>>> Before fiddling with ignition I would suggest confirming whether or not
>>>> you have a fuel delivery problem by the simple test of taking the nut out
>>>> of the bottom of the carb bowl and seeing if fuel drains out. If the bowl
>>>> is dry then you have a fuel delivery problem. Rule that out before
>>>> disturbing other systems.
>>>>>
>>>>> —Jim
>>>>>
>>>>> Jim Miller
>>>>> 1977 Eleganza
>>>>> 1977 Royale
>>>>> Hamilton, OH
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> GMCnet mailing list
>>>>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>>>>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> GMCnet mailing list
>>>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>>>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> GMCnet mailing list
>>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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I kind of had something like this a couple of weeks ago. I was sorting through some electrical issues with monitoring of the battery bank (AIMS 3K
inverter-charge controller) and at the same time changed the hour meter on the Onan remote, and the Onan 6K would not restart when hot and acted like
the remote switch was intermittent.
Long story short, what solved it was cleaning up this connection (link below) behind the inside electrical panel. It is bear to get to and I coated
the connections with electrical antioxidant, and everything works better. Chasing gremlins in a 43 yr old vehicle....sigh..
I must have moved it while running the monitoring cable for the AIMS.

http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/electrical-panel/p64883-onan-remote-connector-behind-inside-electrical-panel.html

Jack
--
Jack Ramsey
Tulare, CA
TZE165V101526
1975 Palm Beach
 
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