Freeze Plugs- what do i need to know ?

dave silva

New member
Oct 2, 2009
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The Revcon has not been run much for years, it's still not driving (brakes)

I was running it up to temp to set up the controller for the electric fan when steam began coming out of the right rear of the engine.

I was pretty happy to diagnose a freeze plug rather than a head gasket.

So, should i replace as many as i can reach or just the bad one?

Are some more likely to fail than others?

This engine has had mostly just water in it for the last few years

--
Dave & Ellen Silva

1972 Revcon Olds 455, toro drive train. All Stock
 
General motors use a pellet to put in the cooling system to help seal small
leaks on a new engine they sell.
Depending on what you think, it is a fast anf inexpensive way to fix.

On Mon, Jan 20, 2020 at 6:22 AM dave silva via Gmclist <

> The Revcon has not been run much for years, it's still not driving (brakes)
>
> I was running it up to temp to set up the controller for the electric fan
> when steam began coming out of the right rear of the engine.
>
> I was pretty happy to diagnose a freeze plug rather than a head gasket.
>
> So, should i replace as many as i can reach or just the bad one?
>
> Are some more likely to fail than others?
>
> This engine has had mostly just water in it for the last few years
>
>
>
> --
> Dave & Ellen Silva
>
> 1972 Revcon Olds 455, toro drive train. All Stock
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>

--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Newark,CA
jimk
http://www.appliedgmcrvparts.com
1-800-752-7502
 
Never run just water. CORROSION let alone freeze damage. I'd replace the leaking ones and add coolant for now, until further investigation can happen.

--
John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II
 
If you are running only water in the cooling system, that maybe the reason for the failure. Antifreeze has anti-corrosion properties in it.

The other plugs may fail in the near future.

Just my farmboy shade-tree mechanic way of seeing it.

--
Bruce Hislop
ON Canada
77PB, 455 Dick P. rebuilt, DynamicEFI EBL EFI & ESC.1 ton front end
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showphoto.php?photo=29001
My Staff says I never listen to them, or something like that
 
My experience replacing freeze plugs in limited but the few that I have replaced all were rusted through and never blown out from freezing. They also
were on installed engines. Many times on instaled engines they are almost impossible to get to. So my recommendation is replace what is broke or
easy to get to. If the engine is out of the vehicle then replace them all.
--
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
 
> Never run just water. CORROSION let alone freeze damage. I'd replace the leaking ones and add coolant for now, until further investigation can
> happen.

Forgive me for I am a SINNER!

I've had the coach 10 years, for about seven of those years I really wanted it gone. But now i have two boys and they love it so we are diving back
in with family support.

--
Dave & Ellen Silva

1972 Revcon Olds 455, toro drive train. All Stock
 
Good on ya, Dave!

D C "Mac" Macdonald​
Amateur Radio K2GKK​
Since 30 November '53​
USAF and FAA, Retired​
Member GMCMI & Classics​
Oklahoma City, OK​
"The Money Pit"​
TZE166V101966​
'76 ex-Palm Beach​
k2gkk + hotmail dot com

________________________________
From: Gmclist on behalf of Dave Silva via Gmclist
Sent: Monday, January 20, 2020 10:09
To: gmclist
Cc: dave silva
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Freeze Plugs- what do i need to know ?

> Never run just water. CORROSION let alone freeze damage. I'd replace the leaking ones and add coolant for now, until further investigation can
> happen.

Forgive me for I am a SINNER!

I've had the coach 10 years, for about seven of those years I really wanted it gone. But now i have two boys and they love it so we are diving back
in with family support.

--
Dave & Ellen Silva

1972 Revcon Olds 455, toro drive train. All Stock

_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
 
> The Revcon has not been run much for years, it's still not driving (brakes)
> I was running it up to temp to set up the controller for the electric fan when steam began coming out of the right rear of the engine.
> I was pretty happy to diagnose a freeze plug rather than a head gasket.
> So, should i replace as many as i can reach or just the bad one?
> Are some more likely to fail than others?
> This engine has had mostly just water in it for the last few years

Dave,

It could be just the one plug, but that is rare. You should be prepared to replace more.
Now, here comes some "good" news. I recently (in the last few years) have had mine and other engines on the shop floor. I always take lots of
pictures for two reasons: With modern cameras they are cheap AND They are better than my memory.
So, I pulled up the pictures just to be sure and you are lucky. The 455 has only three core support holes in the outside of both banks and none in
the rear of the block, under the timing gear cover or in the valley. You only have to worry about the six plugs that you can see from the sides.

As KenB stated, Anticorrosion protection is one of the larger purposes of modern coolant.
Get used to calling them "Core Plugs" as they never were freeze protection and will never do that. They corrode away in untreated water pretty fast.

Now, in your specific case, I would arrange to replace the failed core plug and be ready to replace others. They are not easy to remove and the hole
must be clean before replacement. When you start this operation, have a cooling system pressure tester on hand. When the first is replaced, please
pressure test the system to what ever the little pump will do. It has been my experience that there is seldom just one that needs replacing.

I wish you a simple success.

Matt
--
Matt & Mary Colie - '73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan
OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit
 
The use of water out of the tape for cooling systems IMPHO is a NO NO! I
have always use distilled water, it is very inexpensive and typically about
90 cents a gallon depending on what part of the county you live in. Tap
water has your minerals of the day depending where you live. We spend our
winters here in Tucson and the water here is from the Colorado river and
many deep wells (150+) in the Tucson area. The water here is high in
minerals including carbonates and is fairly hard (ave of 215 mg/L) You can
really see the carbonates if you look at the walls of Lake Mead is most
noticeable when you look at pictures of Hoover Dam and the white appearing
walls. of the lake. The first year we were here in winter 2010/2011 the
fixtures of the bath and kitchen sink had a white powder buildup by the
time we ended our 4 1/2 month stay. I later years we used a water
softener to reduce the mineral load and it worked reasonably well.

Sorry for the long winded comments, but if you use tap water you are
creating your own problems, again IMPHO. Use only a quality antifreeze and
dilute to a 50/50 mixture, I make my own by using a empty 1 gallon
container and filling it half way with antifreeze and the balance with
distilled water and continue until I make about 6 gallons of 50/50 mix.
You need this much for a flush and change and I have an auxiliary HVAC unit
in the coach that requires extra coolant. I always carry a gallon of mix
for top-off of the coolant reservoir. In a pinch while on the road you can
use the premix that is sold, but you are paying for very very expensive
water (1/2 gal AF @ $4.50 & 1/2 gal of H2O $4.50) That make the water coat
$9 per gal. You can make your own 50/50 mix of antifreeze for +/- $11 a
gal and distilled H20 for 80 cents for a total of $12 +/- for 2 gal of
antifreeze for your coach at about half the cost of premix of the same
volume.

The real expert is Emery who sold antifreeze products for Dow and know the
ins and outs.

Again just IMPHO and you can do and spend as you wish.

Regards,

J.R. Wright
GMC Great Laker
GMCGL Tech Editor
GMC Eastern States
GMCMHI
TZE Zone Restorations
78 Buskirk Custom 29.5' Stretch
75 Avion (Under going Frame up Restoration)
On Location in Tucson ( We don't do winter)

On Mon, Jan 20, 2020 at 9:14 AM D C _Mac_ Macdonald via Gmclist <

> Good on ya, Dave!
>
> D C "Mac" Macdonald​
> Amateur Radio K2GKK​
> Since 30 November '53​
> USAF and FAA, Retired​
> Member GMCMI & Classics​
> Oklahoma City, OK​
> "The Money Pit"​
> TZE166V101966​
> '76 ex-Palm Beach​
> k2gkk + hotmail dot com
>
> ________________________________
> From: Gmclist on behalf of Dave Silva
> via Gmclist
> Sent: Monday, January 20, 2020 10:09
> To: gmclist
> Cc: dave silva
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Freeze Plugs- what do i need to know ?
>

> > Never run just water. CORROSION let alone freeze damage. I'd replace the
> leaking ones and add coolant for now, until further investigation can
> > happen.
>
> Forgive me for I am a SINNER!
>
> I've had the coach 10 years, for about seven of those years I really
> wanted it gone. But now i have two boys and they love it so we are diving
> back
> in with family support.
>
>
>
> --
> Dave & Ellen Silva
>
> 1972 Revcon Olds 455, toro drive train. All Stock
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
 
Thanks Matt,

Cooling system pressure test ?

What would be a good target PSI? Would it be as simple as putting shop air to a heater hose?

--
Dave & Ellen Silva

1972 Revcon Olds 455, toro drive train. All Stock
 
Don’t put shop compressed air to your radiator. You could easily blow it out.
If you have an original radiator you could regulate it to perhaps 15 psi and it should work.
However you are much better off using a Stant radiator pressure tester such as
https://www.amazon.com/Stant-12270-Cooling-System-Pressure/dp/B0002SRGWU/ref=asc_df_B0002SRGWU/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=312844081654&hvpos=1o1&hvnetw=g&hvrand=2778592311742544424&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9028887&hvtargid=pla-569917460079&psc=1 https://www.amazon.com/Stant-12270-Cooling-System-Pressure/dp/B0002SRGWU/ref=asc_df_B0002SRGWU/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=312844081654&hvpos=1o1&hvnetw=g&hvrand=2778592311742544424&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9028887&hvtargid=pla-569917460079&psc=1

This has a gauge and arrows showing your pressure as you pump it.

I have one that is about 45 years old and it is still working well. It can be used to test pressure caps as well.
I often bring it to rallies to test other peoples systems.

I was at one rally a few years back and about 20 people wanted me to test their radiators for leaks.
I told them I would also test their caps and said I would wager that about 70% of the caps would not hold pressure.
I was wrong. About 85% of their caps were bad. I told them that a pressure cap has a spring that is constantly working and it gets weak.
It also has a rubber gasket that deteriorates over time. The average radiator cap will only last about 2 years.

If you have an original GMC radiator you should not use more than a 9# cap. If you have an aluminum radiator you can use about a 15# cap.
The higher pressure caps will put pressure on the system and increase the boiling point.

Emery Stora
77 Kingsley
Frederick, CO

>
> Thanks Matt,
>
> Cooling system pressure test ?
>
> What would be a good target PSI? Would it be as simple as putting shop air to a heater hose?
>
>
> --
> Dave & Ellen Silva
>
> 1972 Revcon Olds 455, toro drive train. All Stock
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
 
The few times I ever replaced core plugs I used a slide hammer with a screw on the end in a hole drilled in the plug. Put the replacement in with a
piece of about 1 inch round stock against the center of the plug and lay a lick on it with a dead-blow hammer. I've no idea if that';s a good bad or
indifferent way to do it, it's been decades since I did one. P'raps the guru(s) will comment.

--johnny
--
Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
 
If someone hasn't already mentioned it, I've always used Brass freeze plugs. Unless someone can give a reason why that is not a good idea. (I can't
think of one) JWID
--
Larry
78 Royale w/500 Caddy
Menomonie, WI.
 
You can correct me if I'm wrong, and I probably am wrong... but isn't the rad cap of the GMC rated for 9 PSI and over 12PSI can balloon the
radiator...
So I would not test it over 9 or 10 PSI.

Just my farmboy shade-tree mechanic way of seeing things.

--
Bruce Hislop
ON Canada
77PB, 455 Dick P. rebuilt, DynamicEFI EBL EFI & ESC.1 ton front end
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showphoto.php?photo=29001
My Staff says I never listen to them, or something like that
 
Original pressure caps were 9 psi. Heater core is the weak link in the GMC.
The new aluminum radiators come with a 15 psi cap. So they will test to
that pressure. But, the heater core may not.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Oregon

On Mon, Jan 20, 2020, 3:28 PM Bruce Hislop via Gmclist <

> You can correct me if I'm wrong, and I probably am wrong... but isn't the
> rad cap of the GMC rated for 9 PSI and over 12PSI can balloon the
> radiator...
> So I would not test it over 9 or 10 PSI.
>
> Just my farmboy shade-tree mechanic way of seeing things.
>
> --
> Bruce Hislop
> ON Canada
> 77PB, 455 Dick P. rebuilt, DynamicEFI EBL EFI & ESC.1 ton front end
> http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showphoto.php?photo=29001
> My Staff says I never listen to them, or something like that
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
 
Update on the expansion plug problem:

It is not one of the six plugs on the block. Its one of the four plugs on the head. Specifically, the one over the exhaust manifold on the right side.

I dropped the manifold and poked a hole in it. Then i managed to get a bite on it with pliers and i pulled out the whole center, it was like i used a
can opener.

So now i have this steel ring fused to the head.

I need some advice on technique.
--
Dave & Ellen Silva

1972 Revcon Olds 455, toro drive train. All Stock
 
Chisel the ring out without nicking the edge of the hole? Or a trip to the Men's Mall and ask about a J head. Maybe you could take a hand grinder
(Dremel) and get it into a piece you can drive an awl under and peel it.

--johnny
--
Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
 
Just use a large ROUND SHANK screwdriver with the tip rounded to avoid scratching or gouging the sealing surface and pry it out. Or make a ROUND
prybar just for this type of job. An old bumper jack handle can be a good start. You will need it again for other core plugs and other jobs anyway.
Put the tip inside the leftover ring on one side and pry against the other side of the ROUND hole to pop it out to where you can grab with pliers if
necessary. Usually they come right out easily for me. Putting the new ones in is always the PITA in the job, aside from the coolant dripping out onto
your face :lol:
--
Terry Kelpien

ASE Master Technician

73 Glacier 260

Smithfield, Va.
 
I have had some leak after installation without some kind of sealer, and then had to go get another plug because removal distorts the plug. :x So now
I use the Indian Head shellac or Permatex #2 on them to avoid that possible scenario.
--
Terry Kelpien

ASE Master Technician

73 Glacier 260

Smithfield, Va.
 
I used Aviation Permatex available at almost any autoparts store.
--
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana