Edelbrock Olds Exhaust Crossover Plugs

Hi All;

About 2 years ago I install an Edelbrock Performer intake on my 455. The manifold came with 2 malable cast iron plugs and the instruction specified that for street use that plugs must be drilled through with at least a 1/4 hole or no warranty!!! The performer manifold does not have exhaust ports so the plugs have to go into the heads. The holes prevnt the piston action on the plugs and give it a little more even heating.

Gil,

In Illinois with much modified (improved) Elaganza II
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Hi All;

About 2 years ago I install an Edelbrock Performer intake on my 455. The manifold came with 2 malable cast iron plugs and the instruction specified that for street use that plugs must be drilled through with at least a 1/4 hole or no warranty!!! The performer manifold does not have exhaust ports so the plugs have to go into the heads. The holes prevnt the piston action on the plugs and give it a little more even heating.

Gil,

In Illinois with much modified (improved) Elaganza II
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Gil,

That's exactly what Edelbrock sent me, but with no instructions, oral or
written, to drill a hole in them. After my experience, I wouldn't install
them with ANY size hole in them.

It's interesting to try to gain more information about those plugs. I've
been Googling around trying to find definitive information. The part number
2733 appears on the Edelbrock site ONLY where they specify that they must be
used for off-road and marine applications. Various vendors list them, with
descriptions sometimes saying they're cast iron and others aluminum --
sometimes both in the same paragraph. :-(

Glad I don't have to worry about it. One of my manifolds is poured with
zinc and has SS plates; the other has only SS plates.

Ken Henderson
Americus, GA
76 X-Birchaven
76 X-Palm Beach
www.gmcwipersetc.com


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Gil Slaw [mailto:gslaw700]

> About 2 years ago I install an Edelbrock Performer intake on
> my 455. The manifold came with 2 malable cast iron plugs and
> the instruction specified that for street use that plugs must
> be drilled through with at least a 1/4 hole or no warranty!!!
> The performer manifold does not have exhaust ports so the
> plugs have to go into the heads. The holes prevnt the piston
> action on the plugs and give it a little more even heating.

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You cannot weld cast iron without heating it in a oven and weld, then
put it back in. If you want to have problems later do it the ignorant
way. Using Aluminum is not very long term.
I do not think that most of you believe that were working with vehicle
that is always overloaded. Consequently you can not get by treating it
like a pick up truck.
We have had several units come in with closed intakes. They had one
muffler almost plugged and the other performing properly.
We had one the other day with the stainless steel plate badly warped.
I advised my tech to inspect the mufflers before replacing the plate
with another one. He came back to advise me that one muffler had loose
baffles.

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Jim you are right about welding cast iron pre heating and post
heating. There is another way to handle it and that is to use a large
container of lime as you over to hold the heat in. Preheat the
casting weld and post heat for even temp and put it in the lime and it
will take a day for it to cool. You will get very little distortion
and no cracking.

If I were doing the fuel rail I would not braise the bungs in, I would
have make the bungs with threads and screwed them in. Welding is not
the answer for all things.

> You cannot weld cast iron without heating it in a oven and weld, then
> put it back in. If you want to have problems later do it the ignorant
> way. Using Aluminum is not very long term.
> I do not think that most of you believe that were working with vehicle
> that is always overloaded. Consequently you can not get by treating it
> like a pick up truck.
> We have had several units come in with closed intakes. They had one
> muffler almost plugged and the other performing properly.
> We had one the other day with the stainless steel plate badly warped.
> I advised my tech to inspect the mufflers before replacing the plate
> with another one. He came back to advise me that one muffler had loose
> baffles.
>
>
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>

--
Carleton Douglas
73 custom, by myself
Prescott, AZ

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All I can say is that we see lot of simple misapplication because the
people did not know.

> Jim you are right about welding cast iron pre heating and post
> heating. There is another way to handle it and that is to use a large
> container of lime as you over to hold the heat in. Preheat the
> casting weld and post heat for even temp and put it in the lime and it
> will take a day for it to cool. You will get very little distortion
> and no cracking.
>
> If I were doing the fuel rail I would not braise the bungs in, I would
> have make the bungs with threads and screwed them in. Welding is not
> the answer for all things.
>
>

> > You cannot weld cast iron without heating it in a oven and weld, then
> > put it back in. If you want to have problems later do it the ignorant
> > way. Using Aluminum is not very long term.
> > I do not think that most of you believe that were working with vehicle
> > that is always overloaded. Consequently you can not get by treating it
> > like a pick up truck.
> > We have had several units come in with closed intakes. They had one
> > muffler almost plugged and the other performing properly.
> > We had one the other day with the stainless steel plate badly warped.
> > I advised my tech to inspect the mufflers before replacing the plate
> > with another one. He came back to advise me that one muffler had loose
> > baffles.
> >
> >
> > To unsubscribe or change your settings - http://www.gmcnet.org/settings.htm
> > Donate to support GMCnet - http://www.gmcnet.org/support.html
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Carleton Douglas
> 73 custom, by myself
> Prescott, AZ
>
>
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> Donate to support GMCnet - http://www.gmcnet.org/support.html
>

--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC
jimk
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502

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Ken,

I wasn't concerned because I noted that The Blue Streak had a Performer
manifold fitted. I had looked at that manifold on the Summit Racing site an=
d
noted that "Manifold has no provision for OEM choke operation. Use electric
or manual choke." I also noted "available in both EGR and non-EGR style." I
thought that non-EGR meant no Exhaust Gas Recirculation under the carb. Thi=
s
assumption was reinforced buy the fact that when I looked at the Torker
Manifold I saw the small well to the right of the carb flange that that the
Performer didn't have.

I looked at the manifold on my engine today and there are passageways on
both sides of the manifold that lead under the carb.

On the way home I was thinking about it and realized it still may not matte=
r
because TBS has Holley Fuel Injection so there is no fuel in bowls to boil.
I then wondered if the PO installed the exhaust plugs. I just finished
looking at everything on the Summit Racing site vis-=E0-vis the Performer a=
nd
I was relived as the picture of the Torker shows TWO PLUGS but the Performe=
r
does not and in the picture of the Performer there are none so the PO could
not have put them in; WHEW! I then decided I'd like to put a copy of the
installation instructions in with my reference material so I clicked on the=
m
and under the KIT CONTENTS I noted "2 Oldsmobile Exhaust Passage Plugs." AW
S&*T!=20

I now have to:

1) Find out exactly what EGR is.
2) Ask the PO if he installed the plugs in the heads.
3) Maybe he made a mistake and installed them into the manifold? ;-)
4) If the answer to 2) or 3) is yes I need to remove them, period, end of
story!

Questions:

1) Considering the engine has Holley Throttle Body FI do I really need to
plug the carb heat crossover? Survey Says?

2) Considering the Edelbrock manifold is alloy I reckon I can TIG a plug
into the ports on both sides of the manifold with no problems. Survey Says?=
=20

Regards,
Rob Mueller
Sydney, Australia
75 - Avion
The Blue Streak

-----Original Message-----
From: Ken Henderson [mailto:ken0henderson]=20
Sent: Sunday, 2 December 2007 1:33 PM
To: gmclist
Subject: RE: [gmclist] Edelbrock Olds Exhaust Crossover Plugs

Rob,

*** Re-reading your posting: I don't understand your statement that Blue
Streak has an Edelbrock manifold so you don't need them. If I were you, I'=
d
be VERY concerned in view of my tale below.***

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Rob,

EGR & Exhaust Crossover are unrelated. I don't know the details of the EGR;
my Edelbrock didn't have it.

EFI certainly doesn't have a fuel bowl boil-out problem, but there's still
too much heat passing through there, IMHO. I think Jim Kanomata's probably
correct about having one of two mufflers plugged is the cause of extreme
heating. But the different pressure patterns on the two banks have to
promote some flow normally, IMHO. I greatly prefer having mine plugged --
but I live in a mild climate. Many Canadians report being satisfied with
plugged crossovers too, though.

Dick Paterson's (or home made) SS blockoff plates would be my choice today
to block a crossover. Why bother with welding in plugs, inducing warpage,
and having to re-machine the mating surfaces? People have done all sort of
things, including melting old pistons and pouring them into the heads'
exhaust ports so they could then contour the passages to ensure maximum
performance. For us at -----Original Message-----
> From: Rob Mueller [mailto:robmueller]
> ...
> 1) Find out exactly what EGR is.
> 2) Ask the PO if he installed the plugs in the heads.
> 3) Maybe he made a mistake and installed them into the manifold? ;-)
> 4) If the answer to 2) or 3) is yes I need to remove them,
> period, end of story!
>
> Questions:
>
> 1) Considering the engine has Holley Throttle Body FI do I
> really need to plug the carb heat crossover? Survey Says?
>
> 2) Considering the Edelbrock manifold is alloy I reckon I can
> TIG a plug into the ports on both sides of the manifold with
> no problems. Survey Says?

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There is no EGR port on the original GMC manifold. There is an EGR port on some or all of the the Toronado manifolds. The port is on the drivers side (passenger side in your case) of the carb right on top of the exhaust crossover. The Toro manifold can be used on a GMC by installing a plate over the EGR opening.

If you can not determine if you have the plugs, then I would pull the intake and order a set of blocking plates from Dick Paterson for the re-installation of the manifold. They come with a new gasket. You could make them yourself but it is probably easier to just get them from Dick or Jim.

I'll bet Jim Kanomata also has them. He has everything else for a GMC. I wonder if his 800 number works from Australia?

http://www.paterson-gmc.com/springfield.html

http://www.appliedgmc.com/
--
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana

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> If you can not determine if you have the plugs, then I would pull the intake and order a set of blocking plates from Dick Paterson for the re-installation of the manifold. They come with a new gasket. You could make them yourself but it is probably easier to just get them from Dick or Jim.


when i bought my coach i also wondered about the blocked manifold as the engine had been rebuilt. i pulled the exhaust manifolds to replace gaskets and stuck a wire into the center port and could push it into the intake manifold (about a 10 to 12" wire). may be easier than than pulling the intake if you are just want to check. also you could pull the choke heater and poke down through there. you will break the bolts off doing that so be prepared to drill and tap them.

--
Fred V
'77 Royale RB 455
P'cola, Fl

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Fred,

Great idea, I've got a set of exhaust headers to install, I can check then.
I have a borescope with a flexible cable that I can stick up in the center
exhaust port and look. The Performer does not have the choke heater.

Rob Mueller
Sydney, Australia
75 - Avion
The Blue Streak

when i bought my coach i also wondered about the blocked manifold as the
engine had been rebuilt. i pulled the exhaust manifolds to replace gaskets
and stuck a wire into the center port and could push it into the intake
manifold (about a 10 to 12" wire). may be easier than than pulling the
intake if you are just want to check. also you could pull the choke heater
and poke down through there. you will break the bolts off doing that so be
prepared to drill and tap them.

--
Fred V
'77 Royale RB 455
P'cola, Fl

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Ken,

Thanks, now I know what the EGR is and I FULLY agree I don't want no
stinkin' plugs rattlin' around in my heads.

I have to agree with you re the climate as in Australia it very mild and
besides if it's cold enough to need carb heat I AIN'T going touring!

If the PO tells me he installed the plugs the manifold comes off and they
get taken out. Once I get the manifold off I will decide which way to go. I
have a complete workshop including a TIG welder. I would make plugs that
recess into the manifold 3/8 - 1/2 inch so the flange would not warp and
would not need to be re-machined.

Regards,
Rob Mueller
Sydney, Australia
75 - Avion
The Blue Streak

-----Original Message-----
From: Ken Henderson [mailto:ken0henderson]=20
Sent: Wednesday, 5 December 2007 12:57 AM
To: gmclist
Subject: RE: [gmclist] Edelbrock Olds Exhaust Crossover Plugs

Rob,

EGR & Exhaust Crossover are unrelated. I don't know the details of the EGR=
;
my Edelbrock didn't have it. =20

EFI certainly doesn't have a fuel bowl boil-out problem, but there's still
too much heat passing through there, IMHO. I think Jim Kanomata's probably
correct about having one of two mufflers plugged is the cause of extreme
heating. But the different pressure patterns on the two banks have to
promote some flow normally, IMHO. I greatly prefer having mine plugged --
but I live in a mild climate. Many Canadians report being satisfied with
plugged crossovers too, though.

Dick Paterson's (or home made) SS blockoff plates would be my choice today
to block a crossover. Why bother with welding in plugs, inducing warpage,
and having to re-machine the mating surfaces? People have done all sort of
things, including melting old pistons and pouring them into the heads'
exhaust ports so they could then contour the passages to ensure maximum
performance. For us at
 
Rob,

I should have mentioned earlier a technique you're equipped to implement and
may like: I've been told that Alex & Jeff Sirum's crossover plugging
technique is to use a homemade plywood jig and a wood router with carbide
bit to machine recesses 1/8" or so deep in the intake manifold. Fitted
steel plugs are left just proud enough to be clamped by the gaskets.

I was skeptical of the machinery too until Alex confirmed it for me.

Ken H.


> -----Original Message-----
>...Once I get the manifold off I
> will decide which way to go. I have a complete workshop
> including a TIG welder. I would make plugs that recess into
> the manifold 3/8 - 1/2 inch so the flange would not warp and
> would not need to be re-machined.

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Ken;
I have used the wood router to cut and shape all manner of things. I had
one chatter on a fibreglas hull and the result was the commutator bars on
the top end of the router came loose and the router exploded. At 20,000
rpm, stuff happens very quickly and violently. I had been using this Sears
router on fibreglas many times without incident. I now use a air powered
die grinder with carbide bits on these sort of jobs. If you spray the bits
with a lubricant, metal doesn't stick and chatter is reduced.
Gordon
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ken Henderson"
> Rob,
>
> I should have mentioned earlier a technique you're equipped to implement
> and
> may like: I've been told that Alex & Jeff Sirum's crossover plugging
> technique is to use a homemade plywood jig and a wood router with carbide
> bit to machine recesses 1/8" or so deep in the intake manifold. Fitted
> steel plugs are left just proud enough to be clamped by the gaskets.
>
> I was skeptical of the machinery too until Alex confirmed it for me.
>
> Ken H.

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Ken,

Hey, this is more betterer than welding!

THANKS!
Rob Mueller
Sydney, Australia
75 - Avion
The Blue Streak

-----Original Message-----
From: Ken Henderson [mailto:ken0henderson]=20
Sent: Wednesday, 5 December 2007 1:37 PM
To: gmclist
Subject: RE: [gmclist] Edelbrock Olds Exhaust Crossover Plugs

Rob,

I should have mentioned earlier a technique you're equipped to implement an=
d
may like: I've been told that Alex & Jeff Sirum's crossover plugging
technique is to use a homemade plywood jig and a wood router with carbide
bit to machine recesses 1/8" or so deep in the intake manifold. Fitted
steel plugs are left just proud enough to be clamped by the gaskets.

I was skeptical of the machinery too until Alex confirmed it for me.

Ken H.
=20

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Gordon,

A router coming apart at speed could certainly be hazardous!

I too have used wood routers on aluminum and fiberglass -- but never steel
or iron. :-) I think the machinist's tool speed recommendations are based
on speeds a fraction of a router's -- like 1/20th. :-)

My 23' now has an electrical compartment door at the very rear, just above
the generator compartment. With the coach gutted, I noticed that there was
framework there resembling the doors I'd seen on 26' coaches. Sure enough,
when I measured, the dimensions were the same. So I bought a used door,
taped a plywood jig to the side of the coach, and routed out a section of
the aluminum for the door.

Fortunately, I set the bit depth barely more than the thickness of the skin
because when the plug fell out, there in the hole, already in place, was the
foam rubber seal which would have been used to seal the door if GMC had
installed one! And the little 3/8"x1/4"x1/4" aluminum lock striker was
already welded in place on the lower stringer! I was truly astounded,
especially by the rubber.

I've never seen another 23' with that door; I've often wondered whether they
all have the rubber and striker lurking back there.

Ken

> -----Original Message-----
> From: GRS [mailto:wizwing]
> Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2007 10:02 PM
> To: gmclist
> Subject: Re: [gmclist] Edelbrock Olds Exhaust Crossover Plugs
>
> Ken;
> I have used the wood router to cut and shape all manner of
> things. I had one chatter on a fibreglas hull and the result
> was the commutator bars on the top end of the router came
> loose and the router exploded. At 20,000 rpm, stuff happens
> very quickly and violently. I had been using this Sears
> router on fibreglas many times without incident. I now use a
> air powered die grinder with carbide bits on these sort of
> jobs. If you spray the bits with a lubricant, metal doesn't
> stick and chatter is reduced.
> Gordon
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ken Henderson"
> > Rob,
> >
> > I should have mentioned earlier a technique you're equipped to
> > implement and may like: I've been told that Alex & Jeff Sirum's
> > crossover plugging technique is to use a homemade plywood jig and a
> > wood router with carbide bit to machine recesses 1/8" or so deep in
> > the intake manifold. Fitted steel plugs are left just
> proud enough to
> > be clamped by the gaskets.
> >
> > I was skeptical of the machinery too until Alex confirmed it for me.
> >
> > Ken H.
>
>
> To unsubscribe or change your settings -
> http://www.gmcnet.org/settings.htm
> Donate to support GMCnet - http://www.gmcnet.org/support.html

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Ken,

Could you post some pictures? Please use a new Subject so we can find it
later.

Thanks
Rob Mueller
Sydney, Australia
75 - Avion
The Blue Streak

-----Original Message-----
From: Ken Henderson [mailto:ken0henderson]=20
Sent: Wednesday, 5 December 2007 2:33 PM
To: gmclist
Subject: RE: [gmclist] Edelbrock Olds Exhaust Crossover Plugs

Gordon,

A router coming apart at speed could certainly be hazardous!

I too have used wood routers on aluminum and fiberglass -- but never steel
or iron. :-) I think the machinist's tool speed recommendations are based
on speeds a fraction of a router's -- like 1/20th. :-)

My 23' now has an electrical compartment door at the very rear, just above
the generator compartment. With the coach gutted, I noticed that there was
framework there resembling the doors I'd seen on 26' coaches. Sure enough,
when I measured, the dimensions were the same. So I bought a used door,
taped a plywood jig to the side of the coach, and routed out a section of
the aluminum for the door.

Fortunately, I set the bit depth barely more than the thickness of the skin
because when the plug fell out, there in the hole, already in place, was th=
e
foam rubber seal which would have been used to seal the door if GMC had
installed one! And the little 3/8"x1/4"x1/4" aluminum lock striker was
already welded in place on the lower stringer! I was truly astounded,
especially by the rubber.

I've never seen another 23' with that door; I've often wondered whether the=
y
all have the rubber and striker lurking back there.

Ken

> -----Original Message-----
> From: GRS [mailto:wizwing]=20
> Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2007 10:02 PM
> To: gmclist
> Subject: Re: [gmclist] Edelbrock Olds Exhaust Crossover Plugs
>=20
> Ken;
> I have used the wood router to cut and shape all manner of=20
> things. I had one chatter on a fibreglas hull and the result=20
> was the commutator bars on the top end of the router came=20
> loose and the router exploded. At 20,000 rpm, stuff happens=20
> very quickly and violently. I had been using this Sears=20
> router on fibreglas many times without incident. I now use a=20
> air powered die grinder with carbide bits on these sort of=20
> jobs. If you spray the bits with a lubricant, metal doesn't=20
> stick and chatter is reduced.
> Gordon
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ken Henderson"
> > Rob,
> >
> > I should have mentioned earlier a technique you're equipped to=20
> > implement and may like: I've been told that Alex & Jeff Sirum's=20
> > crossover plugging technique is to use a homemade plywood jig and a=20
> > wood router with carbide bit to machine recesses 1/8" or so deep in=20
> > the intake manifold. Fitted steel plugs are left just=20
> proud enough to=20
> > be clamped by the gaskets.
> >
> > I was skeptical of the machinery too until Alex confirmed it for me.
> >
> > Ken H.
>=20
>=20
> To unsubscribe or change your settings -=20
> http://www.gmcnet.org/settings.htm
> Donate to support GMCnet - http://www.gmcnet.org/support.html

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Huh? You want a picture of my door?

http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showphoto.php?photo=440

It's right there above the generator compartment. Not very visible, but
then there's not much to see, at best. :-)

I don't have a blown up router to photograph.

There's a whole album of manifold plugging under "kenhenders".

Don't know what else you'd want pictures of...

Ken H.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Rob Mueller [mailto:robmueller]
> Ken,
>
> Could you post some pictures? Please use a new Subject so we
> can find it later.
>
> -----Original Message-----
>
> A router coming apart at speed could certainly be hazardous!
> ...
> I too have used wood routers on aluminum and fiberglass --
> but never steel or iron. :-) I think the machinist's tool
> speed recommendations are based on speeds a fraction of a
> router's -- like 1/20th. :-)
>
> My 23' now has an electrical compartment door at the very
> rear, just above the generator compartment...

> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: GRS [mailto:wizwing]
> > ...
> > had one chatter on a fibreglas hull and the result was the
> commutator
> > bars on the top end of the router came loose and the router
> exploded.
> > At 20,000 rpm, stuff happens very quickly and violently. I
...

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Ken Henderson writes...

> I've never seen another 23' with that door; I've often wondered
> whether they all have the rubber and striker lurking back there.

Not mine. My electrical service door is above the rear wheel well,
four or five feet forward of the generator compartment. There was no
door frame or bits for the door over the generator compartment on
mine. There was only the bottom edge of the window frame.

http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showphoto.php?photo=8919

http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showphoto.php?photo=8926

Do you have pictures of the working parts of that door frame? I am
concerned that mine is still leaking.

Looking at a photo of your coach again, I'm reminded that your refer
vent door is just forward of the electrical service door (as you now
have it). That's true of mine also, but both are amidships instead of
in the stern. I suspect that's a rear-bath vs. side-bath thing.

Rick "thinking that the later rear-bath Birchaven plan wasn't in GM's
mind in '73" Denney

'73 230 Ex-Glacier "Jaws"
Northern Virginia

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Rick,

I just scrolled thru all the photo's you took of replacing the rear end of
Jaws. That's a lot of work; more than I would ever want to attempt.

I see in your photo's that you had the power cord and a receptacle that
would tie the power cord to the generator. Did you ever replace that
receptacle with a power switch??

On another photo, you talked about using a battery for the generator and
using some combiners to charge that battery. I have a 73 23' Painted
Desert and I had communicated with you in the past about putting a
generator into this coach (it never came with one). I finally settled on
an Onan Camp Power 2800 watt unit; this unit was the only one that I could
find that would fit the opening left after the renovations by the PO. I
have yet to install it, but plan on using a 12v lawnmower battery as the
Onan starter. Up front, the PO had the engine starting battery and then he
has 3 12v batteries in parallel for the house batteries (this makes two
batteries on each side of the coach). He used this setup for 25 years. He
is also an EE by profession and has all kinds of gauges in the coach for
which I have no use for (like ammeter, current flows, etc).

What I'd like to know is how do you use multiple combiners to charge the
Onan battery with the alternator?? And what size wire should I use going
back to the Onan battery after the combiner?? As you can tell, I don't
know a whole lot about all the electrical stuff. I have a 40 or 45 PD
with charge wizard to charge the original engine and house batteries that
the PO put in. But I don't think the PD can handle a 3rd battery bank.
Can I also use a small trickle charger to charge the Onan battery when 120v
is available??

I have considered replacing the 3 house batteries with just 2 6 volt golf
cart batteries, but since the batteries were new and he used this system
for years, haven't done anything.

Any help is appreciated.

JR Wheeler 78 Royale NC/OR
jrwheeler7

> [Original Message]
> From: Rick Denney
> To: gmclist
> Date: 12/5/2007 12:07:31 PM
> Subject: Re: [gmclist] Edelbrock Olds Exhaust Crossover Plugs
>
> Ken Henderson writes...
>
> > I've never seen another 23' with that door; I've often wondered
> > whether they all have the rubber and striker lurking back there.
>
> Not mine. My electrical service door is above the rear wheel well,
> four or five feet forward of the generator compartment. There was no
> door frame or bits for the door over the generator compartment on
> mine. There was only the bottom edge of the window frame.
>
> http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showphoto.php?photo=8919
>
> http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showphoto.php?photo=8926
>
> Do you have pictures of the working parts of that door frame? I am
> concerned that mine is still leaking.
>
> Looking at a photo of your coach again, I'm reminded that your refer
> vent door is just forward of the electrical service door (as you now
> have it). That's true of mine also, but both are amidships instead of
> in the stern. I suspect that's a rear-bath vs. side-bath thing.
>
> Rick "thinking that the later rear-bath Birchaven plan wasn't in GM's
> mind in '73" Denney
>
> '73 230 Ex-Glacier "Jaws"
> Northern Virginia
>
>
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