Converting to LiFePO4 batteries and Sailor Man's LiFePO4 Build

[sailor man]

Charging the 13.6v and 51.6 volt Lithionics batteries became a challenge. The charging sources are:
Generator
Shore power
Alternator
Solar
This is about alternators.
The option is using the existing alternator or replacing it. The stock alternator with its internal regulator are not capable of charging LiPO4 batteries, so it must be replaced.
Using a dc to dc converter to charge two different voltage battery banks was not a reasonable solution. The massively increased battery storage capacity was another problem.
I looked at jim Bounds serpentine belt system, but you needed to use CVF's alternator and that did not work, so...

This is a double belt 6-rib system for the Olds 455. It includes a new relocated power steering pump (upper right), new water pump (above crank pulley), new alternator (upper left) and air conditioning compressor (lower left).
My 455 was running fine, although one cylinder's compression was low. Rather than put Jim Bound's motor in, I decided to concentrated on reducing parasitic loads on the 455 first.
Now that Cliff Golby had solved the dashboard ac air flow, I decided to replace the functioning air conditioning compressor with a 12v dc air conditioning compressor. Up to 35hp of parasitic load os then off the 455.
The compressor's position will be replaced by a Balmar XT-VT-170-K6 alternator and LiPO4 capable Balmar external alternator. It is a 170 amp alternator for the (2) Lithionics 13.6v batteries.
I am submitting a Balmar 96-48-60-K-6 48v alternator for the March's recommended alternator (60amp @ 48v). This also has a LiPO4 capable external regulator.
All of the battery, generator, alternator, BMS, components are Bluetooth capable and can be viewed through the Lithionics app for Apple Car Play and Android.
Ny drawing does not exactly match the March's Ultra Mid-Mount, but it was the only drawing I could work with.
AS you can see, this is a massive alternator capacity, nut we are dealing with a massive battery storage capacity.
WIth the much faster charging cycle of the Lithionics batteries, coupled with their ability to handle much greater charging current, it is likely that the 455 will not have to work much harder and of course, it will not have to be charged by the alternator very often.
What we can be certain of is that we pull into our parking spot for the evening or more, the massive storage battery capacity will be 100% charged.
When then parked, for however long, the batteries will be recharged, first by the solar panels, second by shore power (if available) and finally by Firman generator.
What are your thoughts?

 

[Christo]

I'm thinking you should start a new thread under "Build Threads" or "House Systems" sub forums so others can easily find it.

Maybe the admin Christo can move your posting from here over to a new thread with more ease that reposting everything again.

I don't have the ability to break a thread into pieces, but after reading through the posts it seems the majority of them are about the @sailor man build, so I'm just going to move the whole thread to the Build Threads subforum. Thankfully we have a good search engine on this forum, so the information should be easily discoverable in any case.

 

[steve h]

Not many of us can afford that level of investment in a 46yo coach.
Matt

Yep, exactly! Some people are investing serious money 80-100k in their remodels. I think that’s great if you have the resources

 

[JSanford]

I did my Lithium conversion for under $1500, works great, never run out of juice. https://www.gmcmotorhome.org/threads/lithium-conversion-of-living-area-12v-system.703/#post-3903

 

[sailor man]

Yep, exactly! Some people are investing serious money 80-100k in their remodels. I think that’s great if you have the resources

I am not advocating that everybody should do everything I am doing, but on an individual project basis, each project is likely to be less expensive than other options. For instance, I replace the maintenance heavy Onan 6000 with a custom slide out (about $450) and a Firman dual fuel (mostly lpg) for $850. I now have a much more efficient inverter generator and if I need more power, I can parallel a second one for another $850. Much less expensive than trying to keep the Onan alive.

 

[sailor man]

I will probably be installing (1) Lithionics 12V 630ah and (2) 51.6v 150ah batteries. I almost always mock up things I intend to install. When renovating a boat or a rv, it is often very difficult to get a new piece into place without ripping a lot of other things first.
Make sure they fit first before you buy.
These mockups are very light, made of foam board.
I also also try to provide the most important information on the mockup, so I don't have to search for information while I am working on the project.
What was shocking in this process was that the very new model 12v, 630ah battery has more capacity, is smaller and lighter and cost less per kwh than the 51.6v battery.
I am hoping to get Lithionics to make a 51.6v version of the 12V630ah battery.

 

[sailor man]

This is my Motorhome's old face before I bought it.
This is how she looks now. This is much more how she looked when she was new. Goodby "Clown Mouth".
I think this looks much better. How about you?
The changes are:
Repainted used grill
New square led headlight & bezel
New Electric Rampo mirrors
New Electric windshield wipers

 

[Christo]

View attachment 4574
This is my Motorhome's old face before I bought it.View attachment 4575
This is how she looks now. This is much more how she looked when she was new. Goodby "Clown Mouth".
I think this looks much better. How about you?
The changes are:
Repainted used grill
New square led headlight & bezel
New Electric Rampo mirrors
New Electric windshield wipers

Yep, the grill definitely looks better. I still prefer the original round headlights and chrome, but tomahto tomato. I do think the Ramcos would look more subtle and smaller in their original matte black.

 

[sailor man]

I am making progress> The ladder & roof railings are gone. A new 270° high definition camera is above the rear window. The new Through the bumper 15,000 lb tow bar is in place. The painted welded mini split bracket is installed above the fiberglass bumper cover and is fastened at (4) locations directly to the chassis.
There are (4) new proximity sensors and on the corners (2) blind side proximity sensors.
I have opened up the top of the fiberglass bumper cover to provide maximum ventilation to the exterior mini split compressor/condenser . When we took off the wineglass cover we found that there was no bumper. Istead there is a substantial steel plate with a foam panel installed by a previous owner.
This support frame is really solid and free from the body.

 

[sailor man]

I found used Villa 6-way electric driver and passenger chairs on eBay fro $1,000 ea. There is electric forward/back, up/down, leg extension, lumbar support. It also has internal lap and shoulder belts. They are much karger, so we had to make some adjustments. They rotate and are very comfy. We installed additional steel angles under the wood floor to the chassis to firmly secure the seats. The dining seat wood back is hinged to lower it when driving to allow greater seat movement.
Villa currently does not sell to aftermarket customers because of Covid-19.

 

[sailor man]

View attachment 4723
I found used Villa 6-way electric driver and passenger chairs on eBay fro $1,000 ea. There is electric forward/back, up/down, leg extension, lumbar support. It also has internal lap and shoulder belts. They are much karger, so we had to make some adjustments. They rotate and are very comfy. We installed additional steel angles under the wood floor to the chassis to firmly secure the seats. The dining seat wood back is hinged to lower it when driving to allow greater seat movement.
Villa currently does not sell to aftermarket customers because of Covid-19.

The Villa chairs are big and hefty. We had a hell of a time getting them into the coach through the door. Before we bought them, we went to LazyDays near Tampa to test out the Villa chairs in a $750,000 new diesel pusher. My back said, "buy the Villas". So we did.

 

[Matt Colie]

I'm glad you could do that, but that is more than our annual budget for the coach. This is not what I had planned, but the prior plus one administration decided that skimping and saving, no real vacations or big toys was for 28 years was just too selfish, so they abrogated the centuries old bankruptcy laws to that they could award what I worked for to the UAW. The proceeding in not a political statement or opinion, it is facts. If you want to know more, look up the GM and Chrysler bankruptcies.
Matt

 

[MidlifeChrysler]

Now that Cliff Golby had solved the dashboard ac air flow, I decided to replace the functioning air conditioning compressor with a 12v dc air conditioning compressor. Up to 35hp of parasitic load os then off the 455.

Ok, I’ll bite: I like the approach of using the dual alternators *a lot*, especially with the rise of GaN power ICs and products designed for direct solar panel power - I think there is a fundamental shift underway in what you can do with DC without inverters - but I’m curious how you come up with a 35hp parasitic draw from the original AC compressor. My back of the envelope reckoning says that would be equivalent to a 2175 amp alternator (assuming 100% generation efficiency at 12VDC).

While I’m all for ditching the OE Delcotron given that 1974 was not exactly GM’s greatest era in electrical design, physics says you can’t get something for nothing and there is zero way a 12VDC compressor doing 12000btu/h can replace a mechanical one that was using 26kw.

 

[RF_Burns]

"Up to 35hp of parasitic load os then off the 455"

This ex farmboy cannot be convinced that the single automotive belt driving the AC compressor can deliver anything close to 35hp. I'm thinking 2hp at the very top.

 

[Matt Colie]

As Bruce suggests and I can confirm...
A 100 Amp alternator running at full load will finish off a single belt pretty fast.
At 745W/Hp, that is real close to Bruce's number.
Matt

 

[sailor man]

The (2) 12,000 BTU YMGI Minisplits are mounted. They will run on 48v dc to 51.5 v dc power and cannot use alternating current. In this position they will have zero air resistance. There will be a custom enclosure, painted to match the coach's body will be installed when it is completed.
I think this looks simple and organized. No boxes of any kind on the roof.
Should I paint them to match the body and leave it at that or should I do the enclosure?
What is not there yet is the Roadmaster Spare Tire Carrier and the spare tire with its cover. The carrier will be mounted on the through bumper hitch (rated at 15,000 lb). when the cover is removed, the carrier rotates right or left to place the spare tire on the ground before being dismounted. No more lifting the spare.

 

[Artworks]

Sailor man, I like the look of those A/C units. I’d love to be rid of my roof A/C unit too.
It looks like each unit draws about 600W. If you leave one on overnight you could easily use 3 to 5 kWh of charge overnight. Your rooftop solar will take 3 to 4 hours to recharge your batteries assuming you turn everything off and get 100% efficiency. Thats not reality. My feeling is you need a lot more solar.

Or a lot more power storage capacity...

 

[Artworks]

View attachment 4733The (2) 12,000 BTU YMGI Minisplits are mounted. They will run on 48v dc to 51.5 v dc power and cannot use alternating current. In this position they will have zero air resistance. There will be a custom enclosure, painted to match the coach's body will be installed when it is completed.
I think this looks simple and organized. No boxes of any kind on the roof.
Should I paint them to match the body and leave it at that or should I do the enclosure?
What is not there yet is the Roadmaster Spare Tire Carrier and the spare tire with its cover. The carrier will be mounted on the through bumper hitch (rated at 15,000 lb). when the cover is removed, the carrier rotates right or left to place the spare tire on the ground before being dismounted. No more lifting the spare.

I just found your thread today and I must say that I really like your work. In my opinion you should paint the units to match the coach and paint the tire cover to match. The lower profile of your coach (no rooftop units) will clue any viewer in that something different is going on. Plus I worry that enclosure will hinder airflow - heat wants to go up after all. Just let your freak flag fly - its your house!

 

[sailor man]

The YMGI 12,000 btuh Minisplits are painted and installed. Only the spare tire cover is missing.

 

[sailor man]

When the spare tire is in the right, only the condenser for the bedroom is available.