Are you sure that was not designed by some protege of Max Esher?
It looks like there are three belts going in two directions.
It looks like there are three belts going in two directions.
Converting to LiFePO4 batteries and Sailor Man's LiFePO4 Build
- Thread starter RF_Burns
- Start date
There are actually (2) belts.
One belt powers the new power steering pump.
The longer K-6 belt powers the (2) alternators and the new water pump.
For both belts, the system provides for tension adjustment.
I am getting close to buttoning up the Tadi systems. The new brushed aluminum dashboard console panel is in the lower right hand corner. I bought it from Cliff Golby.
Assign as the Tadi systems are completed and tested, the seat go in next.
I bought this ProAirII compressor a year ago on eBay. At the time, I was having a lot of trouble finding a 12vdc air conditioning compressor and could find virtually no information on it. When I restarted the project in June, We had no idea how to implement the dash air-conditioning system.
Recently, I found out the ProAirII compressor is an American product. Even so, it was very difficult to find detailed information on it. I then discovered that a Canadian company, Undermount (https://undermountac.com) was marketing a complete 12vdc air conditioning system for a class B van or RV. If had known about this system, I probably would have chosen it instead. However, they are very tight lipped and will not sell some parts that I needed. I found some part numbers in their installation manual and the part numbers turned out to be ProAir parts. I bought the parts directly from ProAir. https://www.proairllc.com
The Undermount system is being used on the Ford Transit 148, 2020 159” RAM Promaster, 2019 Winnebago Solis P SOFA and the 2021 Mercedes Sprinter VS30, perhaps as a refit.
I am using the GMC Motorhome stock dashboard control system, but this system comes complete with a sophisticated thermostatically controlled unit. This would be another option for those of you who wish to convert to direct current air conditioning.
Recently, I found out the ProAirII compressor is an American product. Even so, it was very difficult to find detailed information on it. I then discovered that a Canadian company, Undermount (https://undermountac.com) was marketing a complete 12vdc air conditioning system for a class B van or RV. If had known about this system, I probably would have chosen it instead. However, they are very tight lipped and will not sell some parts that I needed. I found some part numbers in their installation manual and the part numbers turned out to be ProAir parts. I bought the parts directly from ProAir. https://www.proairllc.com
The Undermount system is being used on the Ford Transit 148, 2020 159” RAM Promaster, 2019 Winnebago Solis P SOFA and the 2021 Mercedes Sprinter VS30, perhaps as a refit.
I am using the GMC Motorhome stock dashboard control system, but this system comes complete with a sophisticated thermostatically controlled unit. This would be another option for those of you who wish to convert to direct current air conditioning.
This was the cooktop that came with the coach. The microwave was located pn top of the refrigerator and the space under the cooktop was empty.
The current arrangement has a stainless steel Bosch 4 burner cooktop above a stainless steel Breville Combi Wave 3 in 1 microwave.
The Bosch 24” cooktop has (2) 9,100 btu burners, a 5,000 btu burner and a 15,000 btu super burner. The super burner is the lower right hand unit, chosen so it will be the furthest from the cabinet.
What appears to be a dark brown wood is actual the original formica surface and I intend to laminated some extra brushed stainless steel sheet to it. This will protect agains the higher intensity burner units.
I a home, the code would have required a separation of at lease 12” between the cooktop and the cabinet.
I also plan to use red cedar veneer to cover the dark brown frame seen between the cedar door and drawer faces.
Unlike the original cooktop, with a gas pilot light, this unit comes with electric ignition and burners with thermostatic valve that shut off the lpg gas when the flame is extinguished.
The Breville is a microwave, convection oven and air fryer.
I also plan to veneer the countertop with a 1/4” thick cameo white Corian sheet.
When I bought this coach, which is an Eleganza II, it had these custom “Country Kitchen” cypress cabinets. Next to the refrigerator, with the microwave above it, was a 5 1/4” space. There were two pull out towel racks there, which I considered was a waste of space.
How could I use this space more efficiently.
I had used “Rev-A-Shelf” products before, most recently in kitchen at home and found a solution. In most ordinary kitchens base cabinet filler sections are installed to adjust the remanufactured length to fit the available space. The fillers were generally 3”, 4 1/2” 6” and 9” wide.
Since I had (2) clear 5 1/4” slot available, I decided to try to use a couple. The depth was ok but I would have to trim the height of the pull outs from 30” to 26”.
If I altered the shelves to accept both OXO square vacuum sealed containers or canning jars, I could store a lot of foods without refrigeration for a very long time.
So this is one of the projects I am working on back in my shop.
How could I use this space more efficiently.
I had used “Rev-A-Shelf” products before, most recently in kitchen at home and found a solution. In most ordinary kitchens base cabinet filler sections are installed to adjust the remanufactured length to fit the available space. The fillers were generally 3”, 4 1/2” 6” and 9” wide.
Since I had (2) clear 5 1/4” slot available, I decided to try to use a couple. The depth was ok but I would have to trim the height of the pull outs from 30” to 26”.
If I altered the shelves to accept both OXO square vacuum sealed containers or canning jars, I could store a lot of foods without refrigeration for a very long time.So this is one of the projects I am working on back in my shop.
View attachment 6653
One of the issues I have wrestled with is justifying purchasing a motorhome that I may use a maximum of 30 days a year and spending a lot of money to upgrade it. What good is it to have a motorhome and investment sitting next to house, uselessly, for 330 days.
How about using the solar energy collected during those 330 days, storing it in the onboard battery banks and powering the house. Solar energy without putting any collectors on the house’s roof.
Well, the 2 battery banks have Victron MultiPlex II that each can generate 30amps @ 120vac single phase. There is the solar panel array and the possibility of (2) paired Firman 3042DF generators. We live in a mandatory evacuation zone in the Tamp Bay area of Florida. We already have (2) paired Westinghouse i4500DF generator connected to (3) 110 gal lpg tanks.
Unfortunately, all these generators only provide 120vac single phase power, not the (2) phase 120/240 vac residential power we get from the grid.
Therefore, I am installing a Victron 100amp Autotransformer that converts 120v ac single phase into 120/240v (2) phase residential power similar to what we get from the grid.
The photo is of a 50amp shore power outlet normally located on a dock but will be mounted on the motorhome to transfer power to my house.
Thanks to highly efficient equipment and maximum energy conservation, my average 24hr electrical usage in July is 41.34kwh or 1.72 kWh per hour. During the warmish November, the average daily usage is 25.07kwh or 1.045 kWh per hour.
That means a very low current draw and the 200 amp, 120/240v service seems grossly excessive.
The 12v battery bank capacity is 13.2kwh and the 48v battery bank is also 13.2kwh for a total useable storage of 26.4kwh.
The battery bank certainly has enough capacity to handle the house without any addition solar power collection for 24 hours in November without any from the grid. Addling the amount of solar collection and/or some generator power for peaks, using the this GMC Motorhome design is close to getting my house of the grid, even though it is in a nearly completely off the grid.
Unfortunately, I only spent $1,511 in the last 12 months on electrical power from the grid. I can’t save enough money to justify solar panels on the roof. It is only my passion for being nearly carbon footprint free to convince me to do it.
However, I am working on a way that is not pursued by the tree hugging, passionate political environmentalists and media.
My house is a 3 br, 2 1/2 bath, 1,732sf elevated house on a canal with a 1,350sf unheated and uncooled garage, storage and shop below. I am also charging a Chevy Volt plug in hybrid and a Ford CMax plug in hybrid and (2) sailboats with electric propulsion. We only spent $550 on gasoline last year, but we will spend more when this GMC Motorhome is put into service.
Since I am separating the direct current circuiting system into separate 12vdc and 48vdc systems, I am removing the existing 50amp shore power inlet from the small compartment. I am replacing it with (2) 30amp water proof stainless steel inlets exposed to the exterior.
The reverse Y cable allows me to plug into a standard 50amp, 2 phase shore power inlet and then split the shore power into (2) distinct 30 amp feeds.
Eliminating the 50amp inlet provides more cable storage and removes electrical current from the compartment which also contain a fresh water inlet.
Attachments
This is the combined ac and dc electrical panel that is under construction in my shop. The (3) BlueSea aluminum panels are mounted on a custom King Starboard 1/4"-mounting panel.
The top section provides the circuit breakers for (2) 30 amp shore power breakers and (2) 30 amp. These breakers are each interlocked with (1) OR (2) Firman 3042 generators, so the 12vdc and 48vdc battery banks are totally separated.
In this fashion, I have the ability to select various sources of electrical power to the coach.
The middle 120vac panels needs to power far fewer comments requiring alternating current. Gone are:
(2) Roof top Air Conditioning Units
(1) Electric Hot Water Heater
(1) Furnace
(2) TVs
There are separate AC Breakers for:
(1) 12vdc Inverter/Charger
(1) 48vdc Inverter/Charger
(1) Microwave 3 in 1
(1) Refrigerator + (1) Freezer
(1) Galley AC Outlets
The bottom 8 breaker dc panel replaces the original interior (7) “Fuse Block Interior Accessories. Many of the accessories are no longer there.
I have to add:
(2) breakers for (2) new flat TVs requiring dc power
There is a separate (3) breaker dc panel that replaces the original Onan 6000 panel in the same location. It has (3) 15amp breakers for:
(1) Refrigerator
(1) Freezer
(1) Drawer 17 Freezer
The top section provides the circuit breakers for (2) 30 amp shore power breakers and (2) 30 amp. These breakers are each interlocked with (1) OR (2) Firman 3042 generators, so the 12vdc and 48vdc battery banks are totally separated.
In this fashion, I have the ability to select various sources of electrical power to the coach.
The middle 120vac panels needs to power far fewer comments requiring alternating current. Gone are:
(2) Roof top Air Conditioning Units
(1) Electric Hot Water Heater
(1) Furnace
(2) TVs
There are separate AC Breakers for:
(1) 12vdc Inverter/Charger
(1) 48vdc Inverter/Charger
(1) Microwave 3 in 1
(1) Refrigerator + (1) Freezer
(1) Galley AC Outlets
The bottom 8 breaker dc panel replaces the original interior (7) “Fuse Block Interior Accessories. Many of the accessories are no longer there.
I have to add:
(2) breakers for (2) new flat TVs requiring dc power
There is a separate (3) breaker dc panel that replaces the original Onan 6000 panel in the same location. It has (3) 15amp breakers for:
(1) Refrigerator
(1) Freezer
(1) Drawer 17 Freezer
Sailorman,
While I admire you inventiveness, I do agree that the expenditure would not be justified by your expected use. This does not mean I disapprove (if that mattered), just think of it as a hobby. Want some other expensive hobbies for comparison?
Try yacht racing? Talk about a hole in the water. If you win, you get a flag.
Competitive shooting? Pour money and time into making holes in paper at a distance.
A very minor clarification: 240V 3 wire is not two phase. It is still single phase, just split in half.
I do enjoy you write-ups.
Matt
While I admire you inventiveness, I do agree that the expenditure would not be justified by your expected use. This does not mean I disapprove (if that mattered), just think of it as a hobby. Want some other expensive hobbies for comparison?
Try yacht racing? Talk about a hole in the water. If you win, you get a flag.
Competitive shooting? Pour money and time into making holes in paper at a distance.
A very minor clarification: 240V 3 wire is not two phase. It is still single phase, just split in half.
I do enjoy you write-ups.
Matt
Matt:
This is my 37 foot sailboat Mistral in the 1990 Stars & Stripes race in the Outer New York Harbor. We are second around the first mark and outclassed by very serious racers with professional crew. Mistral is a 1984 Elite 37 sailboat that I bought new and is still at the dock behind my house undergoing its own upgrade including electric propulsion.
I am at the helm with a pick up crew. Mistral is US41834. We are amateur vs. professional crews.
I am Sailorman for a reason and have a number of projects in the works. I like to research, design and build things.
This is a view of the (3) Lithionics LiPO4 batteries powering a 9000 Those 48v direct current motor that becomes a generator when the propeller turns under sail. The elimination of the diesel motor, diesel tanks, transmission, etc. took about 1,000bls off the boat.
There are (2) 24v 400ah batteries in series for the 48v propulsion bank. The battery on the left is a 12v 400ah battery for use loads.
There are (2) 30amp shore power inlets connected through 30amp, 120v ac ECLI circuit breakers.
In my view, the GMC is just a "Land Yacht" and there are a number of similarities that can make my approach to upgrading the GMC Motorhome to bring it into this century.
In 1995, as an architect also involved in restoration of historic buildings, I was commissioned to restore and add another 50 years to the life of the oldest remaining building at the US Military Academy at West Point. Quarters 101, on the Parade Ground, was built around 1817 as one of the (4) "Captain's Quarters", two on each side of the Supretendant's Quarters.
It was a very difficult project as the structural problems were driving the building close to collapse.
If you are interested, look it up on the West Point website. It is sometimes part of guided tours, if you are interested.
This is my 37 foot sailboat Mistral in the 1990 Stars & Stripes race in the Outer New York Harbor. We are second around the first mark and outclassed by very serious racers with professional crew. Mistral is a 1984 Elite 37 sailboat that I bought new and is still at the dock behind my house undergoing its own upgrade including electric propulsion.
I am at the helm with a pick up crew. Mistral is US41834. We are amateur vs. professional crews.
I am Sailorman for a reason and have a number of projects in the works. I like to research, design and build things.
This is a view of the (3) Lithionics LiPO4 batteries powering a 9000 Those 48v direct current motor that becomes a generator when the propeller turns under sail. The elimination of the diesel motor, diesel tanks, transmission, etc. took about 1,000bls off the boat.
There are (2) 24v 400ah batteries in series for the 48v propulsion bank. The battery on the left is a 12v 400ah battery for use loads.
There are (2) 30amp shore power inlets connected through 30amp, 120v ac ECLI circuit breakers.
In my view, the GMC is just a "Land Yacht" and there are a number of similarities that can make my approach to upgrading the GMC Motorhome to bring it into this century.
In 1995, as an architect also involved in restoration of historic buildings, I was commissioned to restore and add another 50 years to the life of the oldest remaining building at the US Military Academy at West Point. Quarters 101, on the Parade Ground, was built around 1817 as one of the (4) "Captain's Quarters", two on each side of the Supretendant's Quarters.
It was a very difficult project as the structural problems were driving the building close to collapse.
If you are interested, look it up on the West Point website. It is sometimes part of guided tours, if you are interested.
When people that knew me found out that I had bought an RV they often asked if I knew anything about them. My standard reply has been that the difference between an RV and a boat is only that water can leak out of an RV. Other than that, Same Same.....
I just completed converting a client's O'Day 34 to electric drive (that makes 3). Yes it is quiet and clean, but as long as he stays in the lakes, I believe it will do him well.
Being a veteran of some races you know like Newport-Bermuda, Annapolis-Newport and Marblehead-Halifax, I would worry about having electric power for the instruments and navigation devices on the long runs. On these inland lakes, that is not such a problem.
I wrote a for a coastal pilot and got set as a pilot (they didn't do captain that small back then) Cape Cod Canal to Cape Hanlopen 200 ton Sail or power up to 12 passenger. This made me quite an oddity when I went into the engineering program. The deck people may get to steer, but I got to play with the neat machinery......
I am a graduate of NY Maritime. So as well a USCG licenses (Steam and Motor), I held some advanced stuff too.
We sold my last big boat about a dozen years ago. I get to sail so much with friends that I don't miss the work it required. I could never figure out how to get it to Yellowstone or the Grand Canyon.
I have lots of starting pictures like your from both short races on the sound and out here on sweet water, but below is one of my favorites. Qui Vive was built in 1944 as a packet boat for the Maine coast. My father redid the cargo hold as living space. She was sold in 1960 to friends that took her to British Honduras as it was called then and we and they took her there. In the picture, the topsail is not set. My sister said she had a picture with it, but she passed before passing me a copy.
We used to summer in Maine or there abouts, and go south as far as Little Creek for the winter. The mainmast was too tall for the intercoastal at that time and father didn't like the idea of going around the capes with a crew of he, mother, 3 kids and a woolly dog.
Matt
I just completed converting a client's O'Day 34 to electric drive (that makes 3). Yes it is quiet and clean, but as long as he stays in the lakes, I believe it will do him well.
Being a veteran of some races you know like Newport-Bermuda, Annapolis-Newport and Marblehead-Halifax, I would worry about having electric power for the instruments and navigation devices on the long runs. On these inland lakes, that is not such a problem.
I wrote a for a coastal pilot and got set as a pilot (they didn't do captain that small back then) Cape Cod Canal to Cape Hanlopen 200 ton Sail or power up to 12 passenger. This made me quite an oddity when I went into the engineering program. The deck people may get to steer, but I got to play with the neat machinery......
I am a graduate of NY Maritime. So as well a USCG licenses (Steam and Motor), I held some advanced stuff too.
We sold my last big boat about a dozen years ago. I get to sail so much with friends that I don't miss the work it required. I could never figure out how to get it to Yellowstone or the Grand Canyon.
I have lots of starting pictures like your from both short races on the sound and out here on sweet water, but below is one of my favorites. Qui Vive was built in 1944 as a packet boat for the Maine coast. My father redid the cargo hold as living space. She was sold in 1960 to friends that took her to British Honduras as it was called then and we and they took her there. In the picture, the topsail is not set. My sister said she had a picture with it, but she passed before passing me a copy.
We used to summer in Maine or there abouts, and go south as far as Little Creek for the winter. The mainmast was too tall for the intercoastal at that time and father didn't like the idea of going around the capes with a crew of he, mother, 3 kids and a woolly dog.
Matt
Matt
It is 2 phase, except it is not generally refered to in that fashion. In most of the country you get 110/208. In Florida, you get 120/240.
It you measure the voltage between one of the two hot wires and the neutral, you will get 120v. If you measure the voltage between the two hot wires, you will get a voltage of 240. That is because there is a difference of 180° in phase between the hot wires. In 3 phase, 4 wire,there is 120° between the phases.
Most people are not aware of it.
Most alternating current motors in refrigerators, air conditioners or heat pumps, use the 240v, 2 phase,hot wire feed to reduce the wire size. Sometimes, they play a game by using one hot wire and the neutral (reducing the 240v to 120v) which will halve the motor speed to save energy, (economical phase). Generally, if you run an electrical motor at half speed, you will likely be using 1/4 of the energy.
Ranges, ovens, clothes dryers, etc. use 240v to reduce current and wire size.
I will go into further detail when I start talking about the generators. The Onan will probably be providing 120/240. However, the Firman 3042DF will only be providing 120v ac, single phase. However, I will not be powering any alternating current refrigeration or air conditioning with alternating current motors.
A similar issue can arise in inverter.
Therefore, if I want to convert 120v ac single phase to 120/240, duel phase, I will need to use an Autotransformer.
It is 2 phase, except it is not generally refered to in that fashion. In most of the country you get 110/208. In Florida, you get 120/240.
It you measure the voltage between one of the two hot wires and the neutral, you will get 120v. If you measure the voltage between the two hot wires, you will get a voltage of 240. That is because there is a difference of 180° in phase between the hot wires. In 3 phase, 4 wire,there is 120° between the phases.
Most people are not aware of it.
Most alternating current motors in refrigerators, air conditioners or heat pumps, use the 240v, 2 phase,hot wire feed to reduce the wire size. Sometimes, they play a game by using one hot wire and the neutral (reducing the 240v to 120v) which will halve the motor speed to save energy, (economical phase). Generally, if you run an electrical motor at half speed, you will likely be using 1/4 of the energy.
Ranges, ovens, clothes dryers, etc. use 240v to reduce current and wire size.
I will go into further detail when I start talking about the generators. The Onan will probably be providing 120/240. However, the Firman 3042DF will only be providing 120v ac, single phase. However, I will not be powering any alternating current refrigeration or air conditioning with alternating current motors.
A similar issue can arise in inverter.
Therefore, if I want to convert 120v ac single phase to 120/240, duel phase, I will need to use an Autotransformer.
Sorry,
Definitions are kind of clear, if you can make it with a single winding, it is single phase.
In the case of 240v 3wire, it is still single phase. There is only one winding needed. It can be center tapped.
A 180° phase difference is just the other side of the same phase.
The 2 phase systems that I worked on for the gyrocompass and autopilot of old DC ships did have an MG set hidden somewhere that made real 2phase power out the service DC. That output was true 2-phase in that the phases were 90° apart. This was done to give the required motors effective torque as needed for their applications.
Quick example: Poly-phase motors don't need any help starting. The two phase motors that I knew and "loved" did not need anything more than a contactor to start. This was just like all the three phase motors in my life.
All of my 240V motors, whether 2 or three wire need a starting device of some nature. It may not be obvious, but it is there and if it fails, the motor will stick as locked rotor current until the breakers pop.
Matt
Definitions are kind of clear, if you can make it with a single winding, it is single phase.
In the case of 240v 3wire, it is still single phase. There is only one winding needed. It can be center tapped.
A 180° phase difference is just the other side of the same phase.
The 2 phase systems that I worked on for the gyrocompass and autopilot of old DC ships did have an MG set hidden somewhere that made real 2phase power out the service DC. That output was true 2-phase in that the phases were 90° apart. This was done to give the required motors effective torque as needed for their applications.
Quick example: Poly-phase motors don't need any help starting. The two phase motors that I knew and "loved" did not need anything more than a contactor to start. This was just like all the three phase motors in my life.
All of my 240V motors, whether 2 or three wire need a starting device of some nature. It may not be obvious, but it is there and if it fails, the motor will stick as locked rotor current until the breakers pop.
Matt
This is how I was taught the definition as well (Industrial electrician). In Canada we're almost always 120-240VAC single phase in residential, I've seen 120-208VAC, with 120 degree phases only in lighting panels, not residential.
Isn't 120/208V 3 phase (120 degree phases) what you had from a "Y" transformer? 120V from each leg to the center and 208 across the legs. Whereas a Delta wound transformer would only have 208V between the legs (no center tap). Its been 50 years since I took electrical, but I'm in industrial/commercial electronics so the electrons still flow from negative to positive.
In order to put things into context, the Motorhome project is only part of a larger project to integrate the motorhome into residence/RV symbiotic pair. I am trying to justify the expenditure on the motorhome to find a use for it when we are not actively using it.
If we use it actively 4 to 6 weeks a year, we won’t be home, but if we are home, I want it to help power the house and provide additional living space for visitors and family.
I can move the Motorhome all around to stay in the sun, which I cannot do with panels fixed to the roof.
Besides, I have been quoted $85,000 to add 32 panels to the roof with (2) Tesla PowerWalls.
Since we live near Tampa Bay on a canal, I also envision the motorhome as a lifeboat to run away from a hurricane. We did that once, running from Irma. We need a better way.
Our house is in a mandatory evacuation zone, so I am planning to develop an ultimate boon docking rv that will never require any hook ups anywhere.
I have not yet revealed all of the components of the transformation.
This is the Y cable connection that allows a 50amp shore power outlet to be connected to (2) 30 amp inlets that I plan to mount on the motorhome. They will be placed exposed on the body and not in the compartment because they are marine grade waterproof electrical connections.
