ANOTHER GAS LINE THREAD

A

adam metzger

New member
Oct 12, 2016
162
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:lol: I know, I know...another gas tank thread.

I bought a coil of 3/8 poly for the tank lines. I tried to flare it and...Nope. cant get the flaring tool to grip the line. I'll be cutting off two
inches and returning to the store. (I kept it in the coil because I had a feeling...)

after reading what I thought was every thread on this forum about gas tanks, I came across one for hard lines. Of course.

what length pre-made poly lines are used? I'd like to buy supplies before doing the job. I know I'll end up in town for some stupid thing, probably
more than once. but the fewer the better.

also, I have NO experience with compression fittings. I don't need the latest and greatest, just what will work well.

do I really NEED to use compression fittings to the senders? I was planning on using hose, but if the lines already come with half the fitting...

i am not doing the whole system in hard line. I'm anxious to get a trip under my belt, and if I get a few years out of these lines (using barrier
greenshield) that will suffice.
Plus, doing it again in a few years will be a great lesson for my son. :)

--
1976 Palm Beach
Austin, TX
 
Adam, experienced GMC owners are giving you sound advice. I personally have
seen 6 GMC coaches that were completely destroyed as a result of fuel
fires. A couple of them, ignition source was in doubt. DO NOT MIKEY MOUSE
FUEL SYSTEM COMPONENTS. Use the best materials and methods available. Go
about it as if you were preparing for it to last another 200 years. You
will never regret having done too good a job.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Or (presently snowbound)
78 GMC ROYALE 403

> :lol: I know, I know...another gas tank thread.
>
> I bought a coil of 3/8 poly for the tank lines. I tried to flare it
> and...Nope. cant get the flaring tool to grip the line. I'll be cutting
> off two
> inches and returning to the store. (I kept it in the coil because I had a
> feeling...)
>
> after reading what I thought was every thread on this forum about gas
> tanks, I came across one for hard lines. Of course.
>
> what length pre-made poly lines are used? I'd like to buy supplies before
> doing the job. I know I'll end up in town for some stupid thing, probably
> more than once. but the fewer the better.
>
> also, I have NO experience with compression fittings. I don't need the
> latest and greatest, just what will work well.
>
> do I really NEED to use compression fittings to the senders? I was
> planning on using hose, but if the lines already come with half the
> fitting...
>
> i am not doing the whole system in hard line. I'm anxious to get a trip
> under my belt, and if I get a few years out of these lines (using barrier
> greenshield) that will suffice.
> Plus, doing it again in a few years will be a great lesson for my son. :)
>
>
> --
> 1976 Palm Beach
> Austin, TX
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
 
I’ve heard others used PolyArmor hard lines for fuel with great success. I understand it flares easily and is durable.

Larry Davick
A Mystery Machine
1976(ish) Palm Beach
Fremont, CA
Howell EFI + EBL + Electronic Distributor

>
> :lol: I know, I know...another gas tank thread.
>
> I bought a coil of 3/8 poly for the tank lines. I tried to flare it and...Nope. cant get the flaring tool to grip the line. I'll be cutting off two
> inches and returning to the store. (I kept it in the coil because I had a feeling...)
>
> after reading what I thought was every thread on this forum about gas tanks, I came across one for hard lines. Of course.
>
> what length pre-made poly lines are used? I'd like to buy supplies before doing the job. I know I'll end up in town for some stupid thing, probably
> more than once. but the fewer the better.
>
> also, I have NO experience with compression fittings. I don't need the latest and greatest, just what will work well.
>
> do I really NEED to use compression fittings to the senders? I was planning on using hose, but if the lines already come with half the fitting...
>
> i am not doing the whole system in hard line. I'm anxious to get a trip under my belt, and if I get a few years out of these lines (using barrier
> greenshield) that will suffice.
> Plus, doing it again in a few years will be a great lesson for my son. :)
>
>
> --
> 1976 Palm Beach
> Austin, TX
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
 
flaring any type of tube, either requires luck for it to work and hold the tube, or requires a really good flare tool as you found out.

for metal, I have used an eastwood flaring tube, and it will be really difficult to use anything less in the future.

http://www.eastwood.com/professional-brake-tubing-flaring-tool.html

I am not sure what you are asking as for the compression. You would want an all brass compression connectors, but the barrier rubber fuel lines
should just go over the fuel tank senders or other lines, and secure it with a good hose clamp(stainless preferred).

I originally restrung my fuel lines with all rubber. I plan on doing another coach this spring, and my plan is to use metal lines on top of the
tanks. Some people claim you will not ever have to go up there if you use metal, but I am more planning on using the metal lines, because I feel the
metal lines will stay put when you raise and lower the tanks. The hard part on my last job, was making sure the fuel lines on top of the tanks did
not fall out of place, or get pinched anywhere.

--
Jon Roche
75 palm beach
St. Cloud, MN
http://lqqkatjon.blogspot.com/
 
Or son in law! ;-)

hahaha

-----Original Message-----
From: Gmclist On Behalf Of Adam Metzger

... snip ...
Plus, doing it again in a few years will be a great lesson for my son. :)
... snip ...
 
> flaring any type of tube, either requires luck for it to work and hold the tube, or requires a really good flare tool as you found out.
>
> for metal, I have used an eastwood flaring tube, and it will be really difficult to use anything less in the future.
>
>
> http://www.eastwood.com/professional-brake-tubing-flaring-tool.html
>
>
> I am not sure what you are asking as for the compression. You would want an all brass compression connectors, but the barrier rubber fuel lines
> should just go over the fuel tank senders or other lines, and secure it with a good hose clamp(stainless preferred).
>
>
> I originally restrung my fuel lines with all rubber. I plan on doing another coach this spring, and my plan is to use metal lines on top of the
> tanks. Some people claim you will not ever have to go up there if you use metal, but I am more planning on using the metal lines, because I feel
> the metal lines will stay put when you raise and lower the tanks. The hard part on my last job, was making sure the fuel lines on top of the tanks
> did not fall out of place, or get pinched anywhere.

I've seen pics where there are compression fittings on the sending units, instead of using fuel line to connect the two. that is what my question was
about.

--
1976 Palm Beach
Austin, TX
 
I just did my streetrod using nylon tubing. It's extremely easy to use and pretty durable. It uses push on connectors that are available at any auto parts store, and you can buy rolls of the tubing.

If/when I ever redid my coach I'd pull my metal lines, at least on top of the tank to the selector valve and switch to nylon. Since it's flexible you could make the whole run out of one piece easily.

Yes you have to avoid laying the tubing over the exhaust, but thats a good idea with metal too!

________________________________
From: Gmclist on behalf of Adam Metzger
Sent: Friday, December 16, 2016 2:52:22 PM
To: gmclist
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] ANOTHER GAS LINE THREAD

> flaring any type of tube, either requires luck for it to work and hold the tube, or requires a really good flare tool as you found out.
>
> for metal, I have used an eastwood flaring tube, and it will be really difficult to use anything less in the future.
>
>
> http://www.eastwood.com/professional-brake-tubing-flaring-tool.html
>
>
> I am not sure what you are asking as for the compression. You would want an all brass compression connectors, but the barrier rubber fuel lines
> should just go over the fuel tank senders or other lines, and secure it with a good hose clamp(stainless preferred).
>
>
> I originally restrung my fuel lines with all rubber. I plan on doing another coach this spring, and my plan is to use metal lines on top of the
> tanks. Some people claim you will not ever have to go up there if you use metal, but I am more planning on using the metal lines, because I feel
> the metal lines will stay put when you raise and lower the tanks. The hard part on my last job, was making sure the fuel lines on top of the tanks
> did not fall out of place, or get pinched anywhere.

I've seen pics where there are compression fittings on the sending units, instead of using fuel line to connect the two. that is what my question was
about.

--
1976 Palm Beach
Austin, TX

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Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
 
> The hard part on my last job, was making sure the fuel lines on top of the tanks did not fall out of place, or get pinched anywhere.

I thought that was what duct was for :roll:

--
Patti & Jerry Burt
73 Gmc 26' Canyon Lands -
Photos - http://jburt.smugmug.com/GMC-Motorhome
Lots of upgrades but lots to do to make it ours.
Members: FMCA - GMCMI - GMCWS - Pacific Cruisers
 
Adam,
Have you seen this presentation from Emery on installing in tank fuel
pumps. It also includes using polyarmor tubing for the gas and vent lines.

http://gmcws.org/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/In-tank-Fuel-Pump-seminar.pdf

> I just did my streetrod using nylon tubing. It's extremely easy to use and
> pretty durable. It uses push on connectors that are available at any auto
> parts store, and you can buy rolls of the tubing.
>
>
> If/when I ever redid my coach I'd pull my metal lines, at least on top of
> the tank to the selector valve and switch to nylon. Since it's flexible you
> could make the whole run out of one piece easily.
>
> Yes you have to avoid laying the tubing over the exhaust, but thats a good
> idea with metal too!
>
> ________________________________
> From: Gmclist on behalf of Adam Metzger
>
> Sent: Friday, December 16, 2016 2:52:22 PM
> To: gmclist
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] ANOTHER GAS LINE THREAD
>

> > flaring any type of tube, either requires luck for it to work and hold
> the tube, or requires a really good flare tool as you found out.
> >
> > for metal, I have used an eastwood flaring tube, and it will be really
> difficult to use anything less in the future.
> >
> >
> > http://www.eastwood.com/professional-brake-tubing-flaring-tool.html
> >
> >
> > I am not sure what you are asking as for the compression. You would
> want an all brass compression connectors, but the barrier rubber fuel lines
> > should just go over the fuel tank senders or other lines, and secure it
> with a good hose clamp(stainless preferred).
> >
> >
> > I originally restrung my fuel lines with all rubber. I plan on doing
> another coach this spring, and my plan is to use metal lines on top of the
> > tanks. Some people claim you will not ever have to go up there if you
> use metal, but I am more planning on using the metal lines, because I feel
> > the metal lines will stay put when you raise and lower the tanks. The
> hard part on my last job, was making sure the fuel lines on top of the tanks
> > did not fall out of place, or get pinched anywhere.
>
>
> I've seen pics where there are compression fittings on the sending units,
> instead of using fuel line to connect the two. that is what my question was
> about.
>
> --
> 1976 Palm Beach
> Austin, TX
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>

--
Bruce Hart
1976 Palm Beach
Milliken, Co
GMC=Got More Class
 
I have posted a few photos of replacing the rubber lines on top of the tanks with steel lines. I had replaced the rubber lines in 2010, but by 2014
they had deteriorated enough that they were leaking air into the lines.

I also had a leak on the forward tank whenever I completely filled-up. That turned out to be a loose fitting for the charcoal canister line. I
replaced the fitting and used J-B Weld to seal it in place.

http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/g7006-fuel-tank-lines.html
--
Bruce Hislop
ON Canada
77PB, 455 Dick P. rebuilt, DynamicEFI EBL EFI & ESC.
Hubler 1 ton front end
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showphoto.php?photo=29001
My Staff says I never listen to them, or something like that
 
Adam,

COMMENTS BELOW IN CAPS FOR CLARITY I'M NOT SHOUTING.

Regards,
Rob

-----Original Message-----
From: Gmclist [mailto:gmclist-bounces] On Behalf Of Adam Metzger
Sent: Saturday, December 17, 2016 6:13 AM
To: gmclist
Subject: [GMCnet] ANOTHER GAS LINE THREAD

:lol: I know, I know...another gas tank thread.

I bought a coil of 3/8 poly for the tank lines. I tried to flare it and...Nope. cant get the flaring tool to grip the line. I'll
be cutting off two
inches and returning to the store. (I kept it in the coil because I had a feeling...)

IF YOUR FLARING TOOL WON'T GRIP THE POLY ARMOUR I DOUBT IT'S A PROBLEM WITH THE TUBING, I SUSPECT THE FLARING TOOL!

WHAT BRAND IS THE TOOL AND WHERE DID YOU GET IT?

after reading what I thought was every thread on this forum about gas tanks, I came across one for hard lines. Of course.

what length pre-made poly lines are used? I'd like to buy supplies before doing the job. I know I'll end up in town for some
stupid thing, probably more than once. but the fewer the better.

THERE NO PRE-MADE POLY ARMOUR TUBES MADE FOR THIS JOB, IF YOU WERE TO BUY THE LONGEST ONES AVAILABLE YOU'LL WIND UP WITH MORE UNIONS
THAN NECESSARY WHICH WILL BE SOURCES OF POSSIBLE LEAKS.

also, I have NO experience with compression fittings. I don't need the latest and greatest, just what will work well.

I HAVE LOTS OF EXPERINECE WITH COMPRESSION FITTINGS BUILDING TEST STANDS AT THE JOHNSON SPACE CENTER DURING PROJECT APOLLO. MY
PREFERENCE IS FOR THE SWAGLOK BRAND.

do I really NEED to use compression fittings to the senders? I was planning on using hose, but if the lines already come with half
the fitting...

NO YOU DO NOT NEED TO USE COMPRESSION FITTINGS ON THE SENDERS, HOWEVER IF YOU DO THE JOB IS DONE AND DUSTED YOU'LL NEVER HAVE TO GO
BACK IN TO CHANGE THE HOSE.

i am not doing the whole system in hard line. I'm anxious to get a trip under my belt, and if I get a few years out of these lines
(using barrier greenshield) that will suffice.

IF YOU USE GATES BARRIER YOU WILL BE OK FOR MANY YEARS NOT "A FEW."

Plus, doing it again in a few years will be a great lesson for my son. :)

I AM ABOUT TO DROP THE TANKS OUT OF THE BLUE STREAK HERE IN SYDNEY AND I WILL PUT TOGETHER STEP BY STEP INSTRUCTIONS USING NOTHING
BUT HARD LINES.

--
1976 Palm Beach
Austin, TX

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Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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> :lol: I know, I know...another gas tank thread.
>
> I bought a coil of 3/8 poly for the tank lines. I tried to flare it and...Nope. cant get the flaring tool to grip the line. I'll be cutting off
> two inches and returning to the store. (I kept it in the coil because I had a feeling...)
>
> after reading what I thought was every thread on this forum about gas tanks, I came across one for hard lines. Of course.
>
> what length pre-made poly lines are used? I'd like to buy supplies before doing the job. I know I'll end up in town for some stupid thing,
> probably more than once. but the fewer the better.
>
> also, I have NO experience with compression fittings. I don't need the latest and greatest, just what will work well.
>
> do I really NEED to use compression fittings to the senders? I was planning on using hose, but if the lines already come with half the
> fitting...
>
> i am not doing the whole system in hard line. I'm anxious to get a trip under my belt, and if I get a few years out of these lines (using barrier
> greenshield) that will suffice.
> Plus, doing it again in a few years will be a great lesson for my son. :)

Adam,

Use the search at the top right and and search for and read all of two threads:
Recommending High T, 29 July 2012 21:06
Lifting fuel tanks when alone 27 June 2012 10:06

I have had to have my fuel tanks down way too many times. If you notice the newest of the threads is 6 years old. Now think that before that, it was
rare that a year went by that I did not have to have the tanks down for some very good reason. I had previously replaced some of the rubber with what
I had on hand and it did not last four years. If you have doubts about the sending units, replace or have them rebuilt with modern materials.

This was the last time and the summary of a lot of experience. I copied much of what others had done.
=> Like sawing the clamp bubble off the connections and using brass compression fittings to make the connections. (Emery Stora)
=> Polyarmor line was used every place that I could. (Rob Muller iirc) Buy a coil of 3/8 and 5/16 and lots of nuts and a few couplings.
=> I borrowed an amazing flare tool that I would have purchased years ago if I had known about it. (Mike Kruse)

Sawing the bubbles off takes some care, but when the tanks are out you can stand them so the chips fall out.
Polyarmor line is really neat, easily formed and very corrosion resistant.
A MasterCool 71475 will cost near 300$ (on Ebay). It does not require a bench vise as does the Eastwood device. You will be double flaring and
bubble flaring:
1/4 for the vapor vent and APU fuel lines
5/16 for the vapor vent to the vent valve
3/8 for the fuel draw and fill vent lines (lots of it)
Put a 2*4 across a couple of saw horses to unroll and straighten the line before you try to work it. Do the longest lines first. (That ways you can
reuse the mistakes for the shorter pieces. --BTDT)

When you consider what you might have to pay for someone to do all this, that MasterCool set is suddenly affordable. DO NOT even consider using a
cheap (~40$) as you will waste every bit of the savings in scrap material. (Not to mention the time lost.) (Just as a reference, I used to do serious
refrigeration. The replacement for the flaring tool I had to buy to be successful is now well over 100$ for a single flare tool for copper.)

When I did mine the last time (I made sure it would be the last time.) I only used rubber line (not the same again, this time it was SAE J30-R14 (R9
is for fuel injection and has a higher pressure rating). And I only used it where it could be replaced if I was lying on the ground next to the
coach. This plan has been good for four years and I have every confidence that will continue to be so.

Oh yeah.. When you go to take the tanks down (assuming you are on you back and alone) take the fill piping down first and put it back in last.
Things work better that way.

Matt
--
Matt & Mary Colie - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
'73 Glacier 23 - Still Loving OE Rear Drum Brake with Applied Control Arms
Now with both true Keyless and remote entry
SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit
 
I'm not gonna pay 300.00 for a flaring tool. that could get a few other projects done. So it's either all rubber, or mostly rubber.

I'd like to use poly armour for the tank tops, that's why I asked the length needed. If I can avoid dropping the tanks in the future, I'd like to do
it, but not at the cost of 300.00 before I even buy supplies.

just does not compute.

--
1976 Palm Beach
Austin, TX
 
> I'm not gonna pay 300.00 for a flaring tool. that could get a few other projects done. So it's either all rubber, or mostly rubber.
>
> I'd like to use poly armour for the tank tops, that's why I asked the length needed. If I can avoid dropping the tanks in the future, I'd like to
> do it, but not at the cost of 300.00 before I even buy supplies.
>
> just does not compute.

I used poly armor lines on the tank tops with compression fittings. Cannot find my records for the compression fittings that I used, but I did go to
MC Mastercarr and searched "compression fittings", and ended up buying some steel compression fittings that were designed to withstand something over
1000lbs of pressure. I did that because I felt that the standard 3/8" brass fittings that you can get at...say "Ace Hardware"... might work harden
over time and leak. I also did it because, at the same time that I replaced the lines, I put the fuel pumps in the tanks. The FI that I am running
requires 52lbs running pressure...more than the average pressure that most are running, and the security of having fittings that would hold up to that
pressure over a long period of time was worth the extra couple of bucks I spent for the steel fittings. JWID
--
Larry
78 Royale w/500 Caddy
Menomonie, WI.
 
> > I'm not gonna pay 300.00 for a flaring tool. that could get a few other projects done. So it's either all rubber, or mostly rubber.
> >
> > I'd like to use poly armour for the tank tops, that's why I asked the length needed. If I can avoid dropping the tanks in the future, I'd
> > like to do it, but not at the cost of 300.00 before I even buy supplies.
> >
> > just does not compute.
>
> I used poly armor lines on the tank tops with compression fittings. Cannot find my records for the compression fittings that I used, but I did go
> to MC Mastercarr and searched "compression fittings", and ended up buying some steel compression fittings that were designed to withstand something
> over 1000lbs of pressure. I did that because I felt that the standard 3/8" brass fittings that you can get at...say "Ace Hardware"... might work
> harden over time and leak. I also did it because, at the same time that I replaced the lines, I put the fuel pumps in the tanks. The FI that I am
> running requires 52lbs running pressure...more than the average pressure that most are running, and the security of having fittings that would hold
> up to that pressure over a long period of time was worth the extra couple of bucks I spent for the steel fittings. JWID


I think this might have been the one I used. https://www.mcmaster.com/#standard-single-sleeve-compression-tube-fittings/=15i0rrm


--
Larry
78 Royale w/500 Caddy
Menomonie, WI.
 
I used pre-made lengths that were (I believe) 48" long. I cut the flared end off at the tank side and used brass compression fittings. I slid the
rubber hose over the flared end (it was not hard) and used injection hose clamps.

--
Bruce Hislop
ON Canada
77PB, 455 Dick P. rebuilt, DynamicEFI EBL EFI & ESC.
Hubler 1 ton front end
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showphoto.php?photo=29001
My Staff says I never listen to them, or something like that
 
In my book, Compression fittings should not be used in a fuel system as
they are never a lasting fit as the tube can cave in slightly and it an
loosen up.
I will not allow a coach to leave our shop with a compression fitting on
fuel and especially brake system and LPG.

> I used pre-made lengths that were (I believe) 48" long. I cut the flared
> end off at the tank side and used brass compression fittings. I slid the
> rubber hose over the flared end (it was not hard) and used injection hose
> clamps.
>
> --
> Bruce Hislop
> ON Canada
> 77PB, 455 Dick P. rebuilt, DynamicEFI EBL EFI & ESC.
> Hubler 1 ton front end
> http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showphoto.php?photo=29001
> My Staff says I never listen to them, or something like that
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>

--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Fremont,CA
jimk
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
 
Jim,

In an earlier email I noted that I had built ground support test stands at the Johnson Space Center and my compression fitting of
choice was SwageLok.

Below you will find a link to some information that might change your mind vis-à-vis using compression fittings on fuel lines.

https://www.swagelok.com/en/product/Fittings/Tube%20Fittings%20and%20Tube%20Adapters

I agree with you regarding brake lines besides I'll bet dollars to donuts brake lines are double flared to meet DOT specs.

As far as LPG lines go I don't have a problem using SwageLok fittings, however, there may be some regulations / specs on that as
well.

It is very important to install compression fittings correctly and torque the nuts correctly so the ferrules dig into / compress
around the tube properly.

Also if you have a junction that will be removed and re-installed then flared fittings are better that's why I bought 3/8" stainless
steel 38° flared fittings to 3/8" SwageLok fittings for the connection to the sending unit tubes.

You cannot flare the tubes on the sending units you have a choice of rubber hoses or compression fittings.

Regards,
Rob M.
The Pedantic Mechanic
USAussie - Downunder
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
USA '77 Kingsley - TZE 267V100808

-----Original Message-----
From: Gmclist [mailto:gmclist-bounces] On Behalf Of Jim Kanomata
Sent: Saturday, December 17, 2016 5:25 PM
To: gmclist
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] ANOTHER GAS LINE THREAD

In my book, Compression fittings should not be used in a fuel system as they are never a lasting fit as the tube can cave in
slightly and it an loosen up. I will not allow a coach to leave our shop with a compression fitting on fuel and especially brake
system and LPG.

Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Fremont, CA
jimk
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
 
> I used pre-made lengths that were (I believe) 48" long. I cut the flared end off at the tank side and used brass compression fittings. I slid the
> rubber hose over the flared end (it was not hard) and used injection hose clamps.

Can i clarify? You cut the flare off the senders, and the poly armour tube, and used flareless fittings on the sender end, and slid the hose on the
end at the edge of the tank? Is that correct?

--
1976 Palm Beach
Austin, TX
 
Any brake shop will flare your lines for a couple dollars each.
Jim Wagner
Brook Park, oh
76 GMC500
71 Vega355
69 Corvette383

I'm not gonna pay 300.00 for a flaring tool. that could get a few other projects done. So it's either all rubber, or mostly rubber.
 
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