403 Distributor

J

j green

New member
Jul 3, 2016
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Greetings,

I'm looking for guidance / opinions on replacing the distributor on my '77 Kingsley with a 403 engine. I've seen this rebuilt unit from Applied GMC,
but I'm I'm curious about other options as well. Full disclosure, I'm no mechanic, but believe the distributor is the issue.

http://www.appliedgmc.com/prod.itml/icOid/553

Thoughts?
--
J Green
Phoenix, AZ
'77 Kingsley - aka Edna "Big Bertha" Green
 
What "issues" are you talking about? Distributors last a very long time.
Jim Hupy

> Greetings,
>
> I'm looking for guidance / opinions on replacing the distributor on my '77
> Kingsley with a 403 engine. I've seen this rebuilt unit from Applied GMC,
> but I'm I'm curious about other options as well. Full disclosure, I'm no
> mechanic, but believe the distributor is the issue.
>
> http://www.appliedgmc.com/prod.itml/icOid/553
>
> Thoughts?
> --
> J Green
> Phoenix, AZ
> '77 Kingsley - aka Edna "Big Bertha" Green
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
 
Jim K at Applied sells great parts. But why do you think that the distributor is your problem? Bob Dunahugh 78 Royale 403
 
I would generally make it over to start the coach about once a month and drive it around just to keep it from sitting too long. However, the last time
I ventured over it had been a couple of months since my last visit and the coach wouldn't start. The engine will turn over and the battery was fine.
My middle son, who's 18, works on cars and I asked him to go check things out to see if he could diagnose. He said he found a wire that appeared to
have been chewed by a rodent, but was able to correct that item and start the motorhome. Fast forward about a week later and I showed up to start her
up and drive her around town as usual. I must have a dark cloud over me as the coach refused to start. Again I called the boy out to come take a look
and he fiddled around for a while with no success. He stated he checked plug wires and plugs but thought it might be an issue with the distributor.
--
J Green
Phoenix, AZ
'77 Kingsley - aka Edna "Big Bertha" Green
 
Thisone is a Springfield Distributor.
It is one of the best unit available as Dick Paterson personally does the
work and sets the mechanical timing for maximum advance.
Distributors on our coaches tend to need service, unlike the cars.
When you have put on over milion miles on a 455 you do experiance lot of
things others have not.

>
> I would generally make it over to start the coach about once a month and
> drive it around just to keep it from sitting too long. However, the last
> time
> I ventured over it had been a couple of months since my last visit and the
> coach wouldn't start. The engine will turn over and the battery was fine.
> My middle son, who's 18, works on cars and I asked him to go check things
> out to see if he could diagnose. He said he found a wire that appeared to
> have been chewed by a rodent, but was able to correct that item and start
> the motorhome. Fast forward about a week later and I showed up to start her
> up and drive her around town as usual. I must have a dark cloud over me as
> the coach refused to start. Again I called the boy out to come take a look
> and he fiddled around for a while with no success. He stated he checked
> plug wires and plugs but thought it might be an issue with the distributor.
> --
> J Green
> Phoenix, AZ
> '77 Kingsley - aka Edna "Big Bertha" Green
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>

--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Newark,CA
jimk
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
 
New cars do not have distributors. If you or your helper are not up to
speed on them, look for a mechanic that has some grey hair. Also, gasoline
that sits goes foul fairly quickly. Make sure that you have some in the
carb. Qudrajet carbs have a small float bowl and go dry easily.
Jim Hupy

>
> I would generally make it over to start the coach about once a month and
> drive it around just to keep it from sitting too long. However, the last
> time
> I ventured over it had been a couple of months since my last visit and the
> coach wouldn't start. The engine will turn over and the battery was fine.
> My middle son, who's 18, works on cars and I asked him to go check things
> out to see if he could diagnose. He said he found a wire that appeared to
> have been chewed by a rodent, but was able to correct that item and start
> the motorhome. Fast forward about a week later and I showed up to start her
> up and drive her around town as usual. I must have a dark cloud over me as
> the coach refused to start. Again I called the boy out to come take a look
> and he fiddled around for a while with no success. He stated he checked
> plug wires and plugs but thought it might be an issue with the distributor.
> --
> J Green
> Phoenix, AZ
> '77 Kingsley - aka Edna "Big Bertha" Green
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
 
"He said he found a wire that appeared to have been chewed by a rodent, but was able to correct that item and start the motorhome"
I am not reading "he drove it."
He may have started it and shut it off not fully warmed up. This can cause the plugs to foul. What are your plug gaps? What are your plugs
conditions? Are edges sharp or worn rounded?
When HEI came out in 75 GM recommend .080 gaps. They revised this as the wide gap would not fire wet plugs in winter and caused higher voltage rise
in the coil. .038-.040 are a better number to use.
The likelihood of your ignition module failing under cool conditions is also very low.
You may just need a new cap and rotor and fresh AC plugs set to .038-.040.
--
John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II
 
Further, if the choke and choke pull off are not set just right this can contribute to difficult cold weather starting. Either too lean or worse
flooding. You can hold pedal firmly to floor and crank if flooded. This procedure is in the owners manual.
--
John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II
 
The first test that I do if I think I have an ignition issue. Is pull out a spark plug. Or get one that I know is good. Attach a plug wire to it. Lay that spark plug on the engine block. Then look to see if I have a sharp blue spark at that while trying to start the engine. Next check the center rotor contact in the distributor cap. As it can often be burned up. But I'm sure that these things were checked in this way.

Bob Dunahugh 78 Royale 403
 
Trying a few of the suggestions and will get back with the results. Also,
I’m in Arizona so I don’t believe this is a cold weather issue.

> The first test that I do if I think I have an ignition issue. Is pull out
> a spark plug. Or get one that I know is good. Attach a plug wire to it. Lay
> that spark plug on the engine block. Then look to see if I have a sharp
> blue spark at that while trying to start the engine. Next check the center
> rotor contact in the distributor cap. As it can often be burned up. But
> I'm sure that these things were checked in this way.
>
> Bob Dunahugh 78 Royale 403
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
 
On my 403 engine coach, every time without fail for the last several years, when it sets for several month, I have to pop the distributor cap and polish the points with rough paper or fine sand paper. They look fine but just need to be cleaned, polished, whatever; then everything runs fine. Why? I don't know. Replacing didn't seem to change anything either.

jofarr
soddy daisy tn
74 canyonlands, 76 custom and 78 28 footer Curtis classic

----- Original Message -----
From: Bob Dunahugh
Reply-To:
To:
Sent: 11/19/2018 10:12:55 AM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] 403 Distributor
________________________________________________________________________________

The first test that I do if I think I have an ignition issue. Is pull out a spark plug. Or get one that I know is good. Attach a plug wire to it. Lay that spark plug on the engine block. Then look to see if I have a sharp blue spark at that while trying to start the engine. Next check the center rotor contact in the distributor cap. As it can often be burned up. But I'm sure that these things were checked in this way.

Bob Dunahugh 78 Royale 403
_______________________________________________
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Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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Jesse, 403 engines were fitted to GMC coaches in 77 and 78. Points
distributors were discontinued in 1976 when the HEI distributors were
introduced and they did not have points. Your coach is unusual if it has
points, although it is not unheard of for someone to back fit to a points
distributor.
Jim Hupy

> On my 403 engine coach, every time without fail for the last several
> years, when it sets for several month, I have to pop the distributor cap
> and polish the points with rough paper or fine sand paper. They look fine
> but just need to be cleaned, polished, whatever; then everything runs fine.
> Why? I don't know. Replacing didn't seem to change anything either.
>
> jofarr
> soddy daisy tn
> 74 canyonlands, 76 custom and 78 28 footer Curtis classic
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Bob Dunahugh
> Reply-To:
> To:
> Sent: 11/19/2018 10:12:55 AM
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] 403 Distributor
>
> ________________________________________________________________________________
>
> The first test that I do if I think I have an ignition issue. Is pull out
> a spark plug. Or get one that I know is good. Attach a plug wire to it. Lay
> that spark plug on the engine block. Then look to see if I have a sharp
> blue spark at that while trying to start the engine. Next check the center
> rotor contact in the distributor cap. As it can often be burned up. But
> I'm sure that these things were checked in this way.
>
> Bob Dunahugh 78 Royale 403
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
> ---
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
 
> On my 403 engine coach, every time without fail for the last several years, when it sets for several month, I have to pop the distributor cap and
> polish the points with rough paper or fine sand paper. They look fine but just need to be cleaned, polished, whatever; then everything runs fine.
> Why? I don't know. Replacing didn't seem to change anything either.
>
> jofarr
> soddy daisy tn
> 74 canyonlands, 76 custom and 78 28 footer Curtis classic

> Jesse, 403 engines were fitted to GMC coaches in 77 and 78. Points distributors were discontinued in 1976 when the HEI distributors were
> introduced and they did not have points. Your coach is unusual if it has points, although it is not unheard of for someone to back fit to a points
> distributor.
> Jim Hupy

Jess,

Jim has a very good point, but only one of three that you should think about.

It is has points, then it was probably back fit by someone that got tied of HEI blowing out because it could not reliably run the specified gap at
motorhome loads.
If you want to keep running that distributor, go get a Pertonix 1181LS to replace the points. Even with decades of experience with points (Kettering)
ignition, I still don't like them.
If you have a points type distributor, it can't be for/from a 403. The curves are probably wrong. Get with Dick Paterson and figure out what you can
do.

Matt
--
Matt & Mary Colie - '73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan
OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit
 
> On my 403 engine coach, every time without fail for the last several years, when it sets for several month, I have to pop the distributor cap and
> polish the points with rough paper or fine sand paper. They look fine but just need to be cleaned, polished, whatever; then everything runs fine.
> Why? I don't know. Replacing didn't seem to change anything either.
>
> jofarr
> soddy daisy tn
> 74 canyonlands, 76 custom and 78 28 footer Curtis classic

jofarr, I don't know what points or connections you are referring to as far as having trouble stating after sitting for several months. I would
suspect you are storing your coach in a high humidity area and you are dealing with corrosion. If your problem is inside the distributor, I would
stick one those little packets you find in electronics in and pull it out when you go to fire it up.

--
Patti & Jerry Burt Fresno, CA.
73 Gmc 26' Canyon Lands -
77 Palm Beach
Members: FMCA - GMCMI - GMCWS - 49ers
A truly happy person is one who can enjoy the scenery on a detour.
 
> On my 403 engine coach, every time without fail for the last several years, when it sets for several month, I have to pop the distributor cap and
> polish the points with rough paper or fine sand paper. They look fine but just need to be cleaned, polished, whatever; then everything runs fine.
> Why? I don't know. Replacing didn't seem to change anything either.
>
> jofarr
> soddy daisy tn
> 74 canyonlands, 76 custom and 78 28 footer Curtis classic

Repost for spelling correction

Note to self. Preview before you post.
jofarr, I don't know what points or connections you are referring to, as far as having trouble starting after sitting for several months. I would
suspect you are storing your coach in a high humidity area and you are dealing with corrosion. If your problem is inside the distributor, I would
stick one those little packets you find in electronics in and pull it out when you go to fire it up.
--
Patti & Jerry Burt Fresno, CA.
73 Gmc 26' Canyon Lands -
77 Palm Beach
Members: FMCA - GMCMI - GMCWS - 49ers
A truly happy person is one who can enjoy the scenery on a detour.
 
If points distributor was installed it also needed an ignition resistor installed and the additional wire that goes down to the starter solenoid to
by pass the resistor when cranking.

Is there really a points distributor in this engine?
--
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
 
Thanks, Matt

jof

----- Original Message -----
From: Matt Colie
Reply-To:
To:
Sent: 11/20/2018 3:23:40 PM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] 403 Distributor
________________________________________________________________________________

> On my 403 engine coach, every time without fail for the last several years, when it sets for several month, I have to pop the distributor cap and
> polish the points with rough paper or fine sand paper. They look fine but just need to be cleaned, polished, whatever; then everything runs fine.
> Why? I don't know. Replacing didn't seem to change anything either.
>
> jofarr
> soddy daisy tn
> 74 canyonlands, 76 custom and 78 28 footer Curtis classic

> Jesse, 403 engines were fitted to GMC coaches in 77 and 78. Points distributors were discontinued in 1976 when the HEI distributors were
> introduced and they did not have points. Your coach is unusual if it has points, although it is not unheard of for someone to back fit to a points
> distributor.
> Jim Hupy

Jess,

Jim has a very good point, but only one of three that you should think about.

It is has points, then it was probably back fit by someone that got tied of HEI blowing out because it could not reliably run the specified gap at
motorhome loads.
If you want to keep running that distributor, go get a Pertonix 1181LS to replace the points. Even with decades of experience with points (Kettering)
ignition, I still don't like them.
If you have a points type distributor, it can't be for/from a 403. The curves are probably wrong. Get with Dick Paterson and figure out what you can
do.

Matt
--
Matt & Mary Colie - '73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan
OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit

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that means I would have to remember it or pay attention to the note on the steering wheel I leave for myself.

jof

----- Original Message -----
From: Jerry Burt
Reply-To:
To:
Sent: 11/20/2018 6:53:33 PM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] 403 Distributor
________________________________________________________________________________

> On my 403 engine coach, every time without fail for the last several years, when it sets for several month, I have to pop the distributor cap and
> polish the points with rough paper or fine sand paper. They look fine but just need to be cleaned, polished, whatever; then everything runs fine.
> Why? I don't know. Replacing didn't seem to change anything either.
>
> jofarr
> soddy daisy tn
> 74 canyonlands, 76 custom and 78 28 footer Curtis classic

jofarr, I don't know what points or connections you are referring to as far as having trouble stating after sitting for several months. I would
suspect you are storing your coach in a high humidity area and you are dealing with corrosion. If your problem is inside the distributor, I would
stick one those little packets you find in electronics in and pull it out when you go to fire it up.

--
Patti & Jerry Burt Fresno, CA.
73 Gmc 26' Canyon Lands -
77 Palm Beach
Members: FMCA - GMCMI - GMCWS - 49ers
A truly happy person is one who can enjoy the scenery on a detour.

_______________________________________________
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Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org

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yep ! now I will just have to go check it out when it warms up a little and see what it has got. live on a lake and is sometimes even more than just damp so can understand that.

jof

----- Original Message -----
From: Ken Burton
Reply-To:
To:
Sent: 11/21/2018 7:44:56 AM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] 403 Distributor
________________________________________________________________________________

If points distributor was installed it also needed an ignition resistor installed and the additional wire that goes down to the starter solenoid to
by pass the resistor when cranking.

Is there really a points distributor in this engine?
--
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana

_______________________________________________
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People fault the GM HEI ignition system for no good reason. It was fitted from late '67 until they developed the distributorless setup, was it not?
How many million pieces would that be? They probably figured it out by then. Someone noted above though, the called for gap,coupled with high load
and high temps may well cause failures in a GMC that wouldn't bee seen in a Toronado. Gap the plugs about .035 and worry no further. And if like me
you're a 'belt and suspenders' kind of guy, toss a replacement module in the glovebox.

--johnny
--
Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
"I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell" - ol Andy, paraphrased
 
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