yikes!!

F

fipp

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Just waved goodbye to my wife and daughter on their first 4 hour camping trip with the gmc! I have a question, on my last trip I started playing with
the fuel switch. I have always of course left it on "Main" but decided to switch it to auxilliary and noticed a difference in the gas guage. I
realize they are connected and about as accurate as a COVID test but I am wondering which is more accurate main or auxilliary. Any answers.
--
Scott D. Fippinger
Aledo, Illinois
1976 Royale
 
The sender vary some in their accuracy so it’s impossible for anyone to answer your question other than saying they both should be the same.

Emery Stora

>
> Just waved goodbye to my wife and daughter on their first 4 hour camping trip with the gmc! I have a question, on my last trip I started playing with
> the fuel switch. I have always of course left it on "Main" but decided to switch it to auxilliary and noticed a difference in the gas guage. I
> realize they are connected and about as accurate as a COVID test but I am wondering which is more accurate main or auxilliary. Any answers.
> --
> Scott D. Fippinger
> Aledo, Illinois
> 1976 Royale
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
 
Exactly what Emery says.

At 4 hours driving they should run 200 to 240 miles and that is not enough to run out of fuel if they left with full tanks. They would probably use
less than 25 gallons and the tanks hold 50. I would tell them to run about 200 miles, read both gauges, fill up, and then judge which gauge is more
accurate. While my gauges do work, I drive by hours (an airplane habit) and then fill up. In town driving for any extended period of time will mess
up your time calculations.

Also only reading the gauges while sitting on or driving on flat land. Going up or down hill will transfer gas between tanks and mess up your
readings.
--
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
 
My variation on Ken B's 200 mile rule is to run on the Main tank until WE
need to stop, or the engine misses for the first time; then switch to Aux
and stop at the next gas station (knowing that the remaining 6 gallons
should take me 30-50 miles). Of course, knowing that my EFI always returns
excess fuel to the Aux tank gives me confidence in that 6 gallon reserve.

Ken H.

On Thu, Jul 16, 2020 at 12:11 PM Ken Burton via Gmclist <

> Exactly what Emery says.
>
> At 4 hours driving they should run 200 to 240 miles and that is not enough
> to run out of fuel if they left with full tanks. They would probably use
> less than 25 gallons and the tanks hold 50. I would tell them to run
> about 200 miles, read both gauges, fill up, and then judge which gauge is
> more
> accurate. While my gauges do work, I drive by hours (an airplane habit)
> and then fill up. In town driving for any extended period of time will mess
> up your time calculations.
>
> Also only reading the gauges while sitting on or driving on flat land.
> Going up or down hill will transfer gas between tanks and mess up your
> readings.
> --
> Ken Burton - N9KB
> 76 Palm Beach
> Hebron, Indiana
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
 
they can bounce around alot. Always switch tanks periodically. When I ran a carb, I always had a pusher electric pump that came on when you
switched to Aux. so I always switched to Aux, let the pump "prime" the carb. Start the engine and switch back to Main a little later. you want
to keep that fuel selector solenoid working once in a while. You let it sit forever, it will not work when you need it.

now that I have 2 electric pumps and the efi returns lines into the filler neck, it seems my fuel usage between the tanks is a little different. my
gauges seem to be accurate to tell me I have "gas" but gas transfers between tanks alittle more, so I switch between tanks often after dropping below
1/2 on the Main.

HOWEVER - if you are sending wife and kids out in the GMC, tell them to fill that sucker up every 200 miles. or basically send them out with full
tanks, and tell them to fill the tanks before they drive home!. I also experienced some fuel transfer when going up and down hills, and also when
parked on inclines. so fuller tanks are peace of mind!

lastly- Make sure they understand about how to fill up the GMC. I forgot that part, and when my wife first filled up the gmc, she set the pump on
full-go. and got sprayed when it burped back at her. She was not happy!

fun times. When my wife and kids took the GMC their first time without me... They all 3 had the same story of Mom passing some sunday driver in a
corvette and left him in the dust. kids had to run to the back window to let mom know when she could merge back in.

--
Jon Roche
75 palm beach
EBL EFI, manny headers, Micro Level, rebuilt most of coach now.
St. Cloud, MN
http://lqqkatjon.blogspot.com/
 
> My variation on Ken B's 200 mile rule is to run on the Main tank until WE
> need to stop, or the engine misses for the first time; then switch to Aux
> and stop at the next gas station (knowing that the remaining 6 gallons
> should take me 30-50 miles). Of course, knowing that my EFI always returns
> excess fuel to the Aux tank gives me confidence in that 6 gallon reserve.
>
> Ken H.

Hi Ken,

I wasn't trying to give him a 200 mile rule. I was trying to tell him that driving for 4 hours was not going to put them anywhere near empty and not
to worry about it.

My procedure in the GMC is similar to yours. My gauges work and so does the low fuel light. I have never run a tank dry but I have run down to the
low fuel light. Again since I run every thing on time, the gauges are just a back up to my mental calculations.

I ran out of gas once on final but still made it OK. We aren't playing that game again in the air or in my GMC.
--
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
 
They are the same when tanks are full and track together until fuel level gets below connecting fill tube. Then they become independent so they
SHOULD Read differently depending on how much you have used out of each independent tank. However, even if level is below the connecting tube, this
can change if coach encounters a steep nose up or nose down situation.
--
John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II
 
Out of gas on final!?! Never had that happen! Maybe having 9300 gallons
of JP-4 aboard, and a guy sitting behind me just to keep track of it had
something to do with that! :-))

Ken H.

On Thu, Jul 16, 2020 at 1:41 PM Ken Burton via Gmclist <

> > My variation on Ken B's 200 mile rule is to run on the Main tank until WE
> > need to stop, or the engine misses for the first time; then switch to Aux
> > and stop at the next gas station (knowing that the remaining 6 gallons
> > should take me 30-50 miles). Of course, knowing that my EFI always
> returns
> > excess fuel to the Aux tank gives me confidence in that 6 gallon reserve.
> >
> > Ken H.
>
> Hi Ken,
>
> I wasn't trying to give him a 200 mile rule. I was trying to tell him
> that driving for 4 hours was not going to put them anywhere near empty and
> not
> to worry about it.
>
> My procedure in the GMC is similar to yours. My gauges work and so does
> the low fuel light. I have never run a tank dry but I have run down to the
> low fuel light. Again since I run every thing on time, the gauges are
> just a back up to my mental calculations.
>
> I ran out of gas once on final but still made it OK. We aren't playing
> that game again in the air or in my GMC.
> --
> Ken Burton - N9KB
> 76 Palm Beach
> Hebron, Indiana
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
 
No fuel in a heavier than air craft has all the makings of a pucker
producing situation. Light planes at least have a pretty fair dead stick
glide ratio. Big, heavily laden military aircraft, not so much. Somebody's
gonna have to answer some pretty hard questions if they survive it. We are
lucky, we can just pull over.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Oregon

On Thu, Jul 16, 2020, 5:43 PM Ken Henderson via Gmclist <

> Out of gas on final!?! Never had that happen! Maybe having 9300 gallons
> of JP-4 aboard, and a guy sitting behind me just to keep track of it had
> something to do with that! :-))
>
> Ken H.
>
> On Thu, Jul 16, 2020 at 1:41 PM Ken Burton via Gmclist <

>

> > > My variation on Ken B's 200 mile rule is to run on the Main tank until
> WE
> > > need to stop, or the engine misses for the first time; then switch to
> Aux
> > > and stop at the next gas station (knowing that the remaining 6 gallons
> > > should take me 30-50 miles). Of course, knowing that my EFI always
> > returns
> > > excess fuel to the Aux tank gives me confidence in that 6 gallon
> reserve.
> > >
> > > Ken H.
> >
> > Hi Ken,
> >
> > I wasn't trying to give him a 200 mile rule. I was trying to tell him
> > that driving for 4 hours was not going to put them anywhere near empty
> and
> > not
> > to worry about it.
> >
> > My procedure in the GMC is similar to yours. My gauges work and so does
> > the low fuel light. I have never run a tank dry but I have run down to
> the
> > low fuel light. Again since I run every thing on time, the gauges are
> > just a back up to my mental calculations.
> >
> > I ran out of gas once on final but still made it OK. We aren't playing
> > that game again in the air or in my GMC.
> > --
> > Ken Burton - N9KB
> > 76 Palm Beach
> > Hebron, Indiana
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > GMCnet mailing list
> > Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> > http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
> >
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
 
On ours, the main tank gage is more accurate.   The aux gage reads high.Sent from my U.S.Cellular© Smartphone
-------- Original message --------From: Fipp via Gmclist Date: 7/16/20 9:56 AM (GMT-06:00) To: gmclist Cc: Fipp Subject: [GMCnet] yikes!! Just waved goodbye to my wife and daughter on their first 4 hour camping trip with the gmc!  I have a question, on my last trip I started playing withthe fuel switch.  I have always of course left it on "Main" but decided to switch it to auxilliary and noticed a difference in the gas guage.  Irealize they are connected and  about as accurate as a COVID test but I am wondering which is more accurate main or auxilliary.  Any answers.-- Scott D. FippingerAledo, Illinois1976 Royale_______________________________________________GMCnet mailing listUnsubscribe or Change List Options:http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
 
> Out of gas on final!?! Never had that happen! Maybe having 9300 gallons
> of JP-4 aboard, and a guy sitting behind me just to keep track of it had something to do with that! :))
>
> Ken H.

It was a dumb move on my part. A lot of things let up to it including a dead battery and having to prop the plane at the start of the trip. Then
after about 3 hours of flying I landed at Centralia, Ill assuming that the battery had charged up during the fight. The FBO was closed so no fuel and
the battery was still dead. The other 2 planes I was with had already gone on to our camping destination. I tried to start the plane which engaged
the bendix gear into the flywheel and it by design would not retract. That left the starter engaged. (On a Prestolite aircraft starter the bendix
disengages when the engine starts with the flywheel spinning the bendix goes back to retract position.)

It took us about 2 hours of pulling the prop to start it. By that time it was getting dark and I had to make it to an unlighted grass strip. I
buzzed the runway once when I got there and one of the other airplanes already down 2 hours earlier pulled on to the far end of the strip with lights
on so I could see the far end. Anyway, after all of that I did not check the fuel and ran out on a close pattern short final. I just made it, with
the stall warning going off at the threshold using while using no flaps. I touched down within 50 feet of the end of the runway which was surrounded
by trees. The prop was still wind milling so I still had a mediocre landing light. The next morning one of the other planes flew out and brought me
back 10 gallons of fuel and some jumper cables. This was at Stephen A Forbes State Park in Illinois about 50 years ago.

It was a very dumb move. I have never come close to running out of fuel in anything since then except Laurie's Zero Turn lawnmower.

Oh yes, the reason the battery would not charge is the master switch relay coil gets its power from the battery side and not the alternator side, so
it never got energized to put the battery on line. The next morning after starting it with jumpers I briefly shorted the relay coil to the alternator
side and never had another problem.

Aren't you glad you asked. I will never forget it.

Ken B.
--
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
 
The last engine got lousy mileage, sputter at about 180 - 190 miles, so I set 150 as maximum ride before pisscall and gas. Haven't run the new one
far enough yet to tell but given the way it runs, I suspect much better mileage.
I learned the hard way to never trust someone else to preflight the airplane. Hey after all, he was a license examiner designee for commercial and
instrument, corporate pilot and decades of experience. And looked for bubbles when he drained the gascolators on the hot ramp. No bubbles from
either tank. One of which was full of fresh gas, the other of which we drained about five gallons of water from the next day. He never noticed one
tank's drain evaporated way faster than the other on the hot ramp. Swapped tanks an hour into the flight, it quit like the switch was off, and I
nearly busted the valve handle swapping back. I was all lined up on the then unopened I 65 about a thousand feet up when it decided to run. I went
home on the good tank and landed a little wiong heavy, changed underwear and pondered.

--johnny
--
Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
 
> If you want an interesting one read up on the Gimly Glider some day.
> https://airlinegeeks.com/2018/07/23/remembering-the-gimli-glider-incident-on-its-35th-anniversary/

That one is legendary because of the gallons/litres issue and 2001 Air Transat that dead sticked into the Azores from 60 miles out because of an
assembly error is another good one. Let's just say that some pilots deserve to survive.

Somehow running out of fuel when you are standing on the ground is just not a big issue. Because Mary and I usually co-drive, we run a more complex
fuel inventory management than most, but it works out real well for us.

Matt
--
Matt & Mary Colie - '73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan
OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit
 
> They are the same when tanks are full and track together until fuel level gets below connecting fill tube. Then they become independent so they
> SHOULD Read differently depending on how much you have used out of each independent tank. However, even if level is below the connecting tube, this
> can change if coach encounters a steep nose up or nose down situation.

John,

Just for clarification, Nose Up can't change anything if the fuel level is down from full much at all.
Nose Down is highly variable. But, below about 1/4 on the main it would take a slope you don't want to go down to spill fuel forward to the auxiliary
tank.

Matt - who knows more about the fuel system than he might like.
--
Matt & Mary Colie - '73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan
OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit
 
Especially for Ken Burton, a friend of mine who is a Canadian but was a pilot for United Airlines actually
knows the person who was the Captain on the "gimli" glider. He told me lots of stuff about that flight that
never made it to the media. So to get it straight. kilograms, pounds and inches on a dip stick. Want to bet that
something would go wrong sooner or later? The "nasty" part about the Air Transat thing was that the guys that did it weren't on the plane
so they didn't get to go on the the "no fuel ordeal".

I ran out of fuel on ! 75 just into Georgia in the MH coming home from Disney World. Unbeknown to me I had a defect in the tank to fuel gauge
system, Drove by time/miles after that. SHE was NOT happy.
--
DAVE KING
lurker, wannabe
Toronto, Ontario, Canada
 
Matt. Right. I oversimplified my explanation due to typing fatigue. The reason is because of where the fill pipes are located in the fore aft plain
--
John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II
 
I remember reading about Transat in the Azores. That one had a fuel leak on one side and the pilots exacerbated the problem by transferring fuel from
the good side to the bad side. That transferred fuel went over board also.
--
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
 
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