Yandina combiner cycles

T

tyler

Active member
Jun 22, 2013
517
98
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75 coach is stock isolator, 78 coach the PO put a Yandina combiner and removed isolator. I am tired of putting my alligator clips on the one with an
isolator to charge engine battery when at home. But here is what bothers me about the Yandina, and I am curious if a different connection (or brand)
will change it: when plugged into shore power and I am in the coach, I frequently hear a clunk as it connects and disconnects the batteries. the
Yandina is mounted on the firewall and is easily heard inside when the 403 is not running. Seems like if the newish PD charger is plugged in, the
batteries should just stay combined, but I presume as it reaches full charge on both batteries and the charger reduces voltage, it drops below the
Yandina threshold to connect, then with 15 minutes use the PD moves voltage up a bit and it reconnects. If I'm right as to why, do y'all have
suggestions to get it to stop? I think the Yandina has a connection available to wire a manual control, but then it seems like a very expensive
alligator clip still likely to be left on like I often do on the coach with an isolator. Thoughts?

Moving it off the firewall will make it less annoying, but as I consider solar as well, I'm wanting to both understand and optimize what it is doing.
--
1975 Glenbrook, 1978 Royale rear bath
Raleigh, NC
 
Mine does that as well. I figure some thing like the radio stay - alive or the like puts a bit of a load on the chassis battery and pulls it below
the sense voltage. It's been doing that since I got it, it doesn't seem to hurt anything and both batteries stay hot. I don't worry 'bout it.

--johnny
--
76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
"I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell" - ol Andy, paraphrased
 
I saw that with another coach with a Yandina combiner installed. You hit on the problem exactly. The owner installed a new Yandina a few weeks later
and it did the same thing.

When the PD drops to maintenance mode the output voltage drops to 13.2 to 13.3. Unfortunately that is also the switching point for the Yandina so it
drops in and out. Neither the PD or the Yandina are adjustable so you are stuck. The reason for the delay is when the PD drops down there is a
surface charge left on one or both of the batteries. It takes a while for it to bleed off and stabilize at the new 13.2 voltage. There is also a
switching delay built into the Yandina.

If you want to spend more money, you might try a different brand of combiner to see if it switches at a different voltage.

Since you already have the combiner installed, install the manual switch to it and leave it turned on when you need want it combined. Make the switch
one with an internal LED and it will remind you to turn it off when not needed. Those switches are $5.00 at Auto Zone.

There is really no reason to combine to the engine battery while parked as there is nothing to drain it unless you leave the car radio or front
cockpit lights turned on. If you are going to long term park the coach for months then a $1.00 combiner might be used. It is my contention that
combining and charging an already fully charged engine battery while camping for days or weeks is simply over charging it and shortens it life. My
group 24 engine battery is in it's 10 year and still going strong.

--
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
 
Ken, I suspect that the reason many coach engine batteries do not stay
charged well in long term storage is that SOMEWHERE in the coaches history,
SOMEONE has wired accessories into the engine battery that slowly drains
them. Modern DIN radios with electronic preset frequencies and power amps
are a frequent offender, as are charging docks for remote controls, GPS
navigation stuff, etc. My 78 Royale, which is bone stock, can sit for 2 to
3 months and still start on the engine battery. Just the Isolator, no
combiner. I do leave the coach plugged in, as I leave a small heater
running inside to keep it from freezing water pipes, etc. I leave the
Refrigerator on all the time as well. Here in Oregon, we use our coach
pretty much year round for rallies and camping. I replaced the old buzz box
converter after it toasted the first set of 6 volt T-105 Trojans I had. I
now have a smart charger Progressive Dynamics converter. It came with the
"charge wizard" as an accessory. I also replaced the toggle breaker with an
automatic transfer switch so I don't have to get down on my knees between
the beds to switch the toggle breaker when I go from generator to shore
power. The transfer switch has a timed delay that senses when the generator
voltage and frequency is stable before it switches over, a good feature if
you have a cranky generator.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Or

I saw that with another coach with a Yandina combiner installed. You hit on
the problem exactly. The owner installed a new Yandina a few weeks later
and it did the same thing.

When the PD drops to maintenance mode the output voltage drops to 13.2 to
13.3. Unfortunately that is also the switching point for the Yandina so it
drops in and out. Neither the PD or the Yandina are adjustable so you are
stuck. The reason for the delay is when the PD drops down there is a
surface charge left on one or both of the batteries. It takes a while for
it to bleed off and stabilize at the new 13.2 voltage. There is also a
switching delay built into the Yandina.

If you want to spend more money, you might try a different brand of
combiner to see if it switches at a different voltage.

Since you already have the combiner installed, install the manual switch to
it and leave it turned on when you need want it combined. Make the switch
one with an internal LED and it will remind you to turn it off when not
needed. Those switches are $5.00 at Auto Zone.

There is really no reason to combine to the engine battery while parked as
there is nothing to drain it unless you leave the car radio or front
cockpit lights turned on. If you are going to long term park the coach
for months then a $1.00 combiner might be used. It is my contention that
combining and charging an already fully charged engine battery while
camping for days or weeks is simply over charging it and shortens it life.
My
group 24 engine battery is in it's 10 year and still going strong.

--
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana

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Most of the smart isolators I have read about have a connect voltage of 13.2-13.6 and a disconnect voltage of 12.7 or so. I can't find a published
disconnect voltage on the Yandina unit. I would think 12.7 would be low enough for the relay to stay engaged all the time when on shore power.

Tom
--
Tom

77 Kingsley. Mostly Stock, 455, Quad bag, tachometer, 16"wheels, Macerator.
Southern California, huntington beach
 
> Ken, I suspect that the reason many coach engine batteries do not stay
> charged well in long term storage is that SOMEWHERE in the coaches history,
> SOMEONE has wired accessories into the engine battery that slowly drains
> them. Modern DIN radios with electronic preset frequencies and power amps
> are a frequent offender, as are charging docks for remote controls, GPS
> navigation stuff, etc. My 78 Royale, which is bone stock, can sit for 2 to
> 3 months and still start on the engine battery. Just the Isolator, no
> combiner. I do leave the coach plugged in, as I leave a small heater
> running inside to keep it from freezing water pipes, etc. I leave the
> Refrigerator on all the time as well. Here in Oregon, we use our coach
> pretty much year round for rallies and camping. I replaced the old buzz box
> converter after it toasted the first set of 6 volt T-105 Trojans I had. I
> now have a smart charger Progressive Dynamics converter. It came with the
> "charge wizard" as an accessory. I also replaced the toggle breaker with an
> automatic transfer switch so I don't have to get down on my knees between
> the beds to switch the toggle breaker when I go from generator to shore
> power. The transfer switch has a timed delay that senses when the generator
> voltage and frequency is stable before it switches over, a good feature if
> you have a cranky generator.
> Jim Hupy
> Salem, Or

I do not disagree with any of that.

The battery drain caused by those added accessories needs be taken into account if they are going to be powered when the engine and alternator are
off. Things like aftermarket radios can easily be powered off of the house system. Amps and GPS etc. should be powered off of an ignition switched
source or moved to the house system.

The GM design spec on modern vehicles is there must be less than 20 ma. drain from the battery when the vehicle is turned off. They have not only
that audio and other electronic stuff but, a Body computer to keep active. They have only one starting battery to use and still get the job done. We
are lucky to have a second high capacity deep cycle battery to use and that is where that stuff ought to be getting power if they are gong to use it
when parked. The engine battery has one primary purpose. That is starting the vehicle. When people add other stuff that draws on it they suffer
the consequences if not done correctly.
--
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
 
Thanks for the replies so far...

I posted this prompted by the thread that is talking about the Victron combiner...anyone venture a guess, or have experience, that it does the same
thing with the same other components? I am leaning toward trying a Victron on the 75 across the two battery connections on the isolator.

Also, would any of you EE types know of a trick to reduce or stabilize the voltage on the 78? A diode here, a smaller or bigger wire there, type of
thing?

My need for engine charge is in part due to the "collective system health is not as new" reality...! For example, on the 75 I have one air pump that
runs off ignition key, and one that is on house battery. If the system didn't leak down in two days, I wouldn't have to refill the 1.5 gallon air tank
each time I get going. Works best to let both air pumps run for a few minutes on shore power and then crank the 455, otherwise it ends up being idling
the motor for juice.

Another example is work days...still tracking down stuff like dash lights that don't work and other issues and it's great to count on the charger to
do both systems as I work when plugged into shore.

And, I typically get used batteries for the coaches...overall very good dollars to donuts ratio, but not perfect. (I found one of those big $270
yellow AGM battery for $75 last fall - that thing works GREAT!) Given three kids in college, it means used batteries and leaky air systems for a bit
longer - ha! But I am functional and camp 2-5 weeks a year, so gettin' it done.
--
1975 Glenbrook, 1978 Royale rear bath
Raleigh, NC
 
> Thanks for the replies so far...
>
> I posted this prompted by the thread that is talking about the Victron combiner...anyone venture a guess, or have experience, that it does the
> same thing with the same other components? I am leaning toward trying a Victron on the 75 across the two battery connections on the isolator.

Not sure what you're asking about the same other components? It is a relay controlled by a PCB that analyzes voltage and voltage trends to determine
when to open/close the relay. Pretty clever.

It will work just fine wired across the isolator.
--
Justin Brady
http://www.thegmcrv.com/
1976 Palm Beach 455
 
When I installed a new radio in my GMC, I wired it directly to the upfront house battery. When I added an additional 12v outlet and 12v power pole
outlets, these also went to the house battery. All fused to a new fuse panel.
In my GMC, engine battery started engine period.
For items that I thought should be turned on when the ignition is in the on position, I used the white wire from the heater block to engage a relay
that fed an addition fuse block that provided power for the JC4 and Ken Henderson's wonderful electric wipers.
Tom
--
2012 Phoenix Cruiser model 2552
KA4CSG
 
I just looked at the spec sheet and the instruction manual for this thing and it looks like it would solve your Yandina problem. The cut off and cut
in voltages have been lowered enough that it should not cycle.

I forgot to look at the price.
--
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
 
By the same other components I meant the PD charger mostly...as Ken B also observed, there is something about the on/off voltages of my combo with a
Yandina that ends up cycling more often than I would like. Part of why I mentioned the used batteries I typically use is realizing that the voltage
drop off in them may be a bit more up and down, and just a few tenths of a volt could be causing the cycling.

I think what I will do is order one of the Victrons noted in the other thread, and REPLACE the yandina with the victron. Then put the Yandina in the
75 coach which currently has no combiner. This will generate multiple comparative scenarios to see if the Victron eliminates the short cycling in the
78, and if the Yandina continues to short cycle in the 75.

Any tricks or things to be mindful of if I add a cheap solar charger to the mix are appreciated...
--
1975 Glenbrook, 1978 Royale rear bath
Raleigh, NC
 
The victron should not cycle like the yandina.
No trick to the solar, just set it up so that it charges one of the batteries, the combiner will do the rest. You'll get a better charge on the
battery that the charger is closest to as there will be less voltage drop.
Run as large as we're as you can from the panel to the controller to minimize drop from the panels.
--
Justin Brady
http://www.thegmcrv.com/
1976 Palm Beach 455
 
Justin, are you the dude with the walnut shower pan and full custom cabinets and layout? If so, please come to Bean Station this year so I can see
it...!
--
1975 Glenbrook, 1978 Royale rear bath
Raleigh, NC
 
Bean Station should be May 3rd through the sixth. It's always the weekend
of the Kentucky Derby.
bdub

-----Original Message-----
From: Gmclist On Behalf Of Justin Brady
Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2018 2:56 PM

That would be me.
What are the dates this year?
 
Tyler,

Your plan to try the Victron & Yandina sounds as if it will yield useful
information. You haven't said which Yandina you use. If it's the C100,
you may want to try the silent mount I used when I had one: I screwed a
short piece of aluminum angle to the firewall. With that little shelf to
support the weight, I used double-sided foam tape to hold the C100 in
place. My having never heard any "clunks" may not mean a whole lot though,
given my hearing. :-)

Ken H.

> By the same other components I meant the PD charger mostly...as Ken B also
> observed, there is something about the on/off voltages of my combo with a
> Yandina that ends up cycling more often than I would like. Part of why I
> mentioned the used batteries I typically use is realizing that the voltage
> drop off in them may be a bit more up and down, and just a few tenths of a
> volt could be causing the cycling.
>
> I think what I will do is order one of the Victrons noted in the other
> thread, and REPLACE the yandina with the victron. Then put the Yandina in
> the
> 75 coach which currently has no combiner. This will generate multiple
> comparative scenarios to see if the Victron eliminates the short cycling in
> the
> 78, and if the Yandina continues to short cycle in the 75.
>
> Any tricks or things to be mindful of if I add a cheap solar charger to
> the mix are appreciated...
> --
>
 
I have the yandiana C100 and the PD with the charge wizard. The Yandina does not cycle.
--
Steve Southworth
1974 Glacier TZE064V100150 (for workin on)
1975 Transmode TZE365V100394 (parts & spares)
Palmyra WI
 
To raise the charge sense voltage you could put a Schottky diode in series with the ground lead of the combiner. That would raise the charge sense
(and disconnect) voltage by 0.3 volts. You might also need a filter capacitor across the diode.. and maybe a pullup resistor to maintain current
through the diode ... and a bunch of time fooling around with it trying to fool it into working right.

Or just get a Vicor unit that has a bit more hysteresis and be done with it.
--
Bruce Hislop
ON Canada
77PB, 455 Dick P. rebuilt, DynamicEFI EBL EFI & ESC.
Hubler 1 ton front end
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showphoto.php?photo=29001
My Staff says I never listen to them, or something like that
 
I'm just going to let mine click. It's done it since install I'm told. Doesn't seem to hurt anything.

--johnny

--
76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
"I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell" - ol Andy, paraphrased
 
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