Winterizing?

[tmsnyder]

How does everyone winterize these?

I know the preferred answer is to drive south until palm trees are in sight, but for those of us unlucky enough to be too young to retire, what are some good ways to do this?

I think my main issue is the hot water tank. There's no bypass on it and if I can avoid installing one, that would be my preference.

So far, I've opened all the drains and drained the hot water tank.

I'm assuming there is some residual water in the potable water tank.

I could do this using a brute force method. If I pour in 10 gallons of pink RV antifreeze I'll be able to get the 6 gallon hot water tank filled and pink stuff flowing to all the hot water lines. I could recover it in the spring but it will be somewhat diluted. After a couple years it may dilute it to the point where I'll have to replace it. This seems expensive and kind of a hassle.

Is there a more elegant way to do this which protects all the lines and uses less pink stuff?

 

[Matt Colie]

TM,

I have a lot of experience with both RVs and boats, but had never had to deal with a water heater like that in my coach. I have always winterized potable systems by blowing the water out with air. The drain valve is very high on the tank, this was unfamiliar. So, I called the manufacturer. Someone there assured me that If I blew the tank down to where there is now water leaving that drain, it would be safe from freezing damage.

Another gotcha is the flush valve of the toilet. I have missed blowing that clear and had to replace it. Thetford knew that this was an issue and never changed it. Just be real sure that it blows clear.

Ok, if you don't have one, you need to make up an adapter. Go to a good hardware store and buy the brass fitting that is a male garden hose thread. It will have a female pipe thread. So buy the male fitting that will best adapt to what ever air compressor you have.

Years ago, I ran into pink stuff on sale and bought two. (I still had the PAR potable pump that really like to have it.) I replaced that pump on the road shortly after because the pressure switch failed. I still have a gallon and an half because I still use it to fill the traps.

There is a small problem that you don't have a sigfile here and I don't remember what year your coach is. This matters because if you have plastic plumbing, you have to limit the pressure. Mine is all copper and so this isn't an issue, but it is more easily damaged by freezing.

Matt

 

[traveler1980]

I am new to my GMC and also do not have a bypass on the hot water heater. I had time to install an RV antifreeze bypass on the water pump, but didn't have time to install the hot water heater bypass (it's on the list for next year). This may be overkill, but I blew as much of the residual water as I could out of the lines and then flushed everything with RV antifreeze. The hot water heater is a 6 gallon tank, so I used quite a bit and it wasn't cheap, but gave me some reassurance since I'm new to this. Made sure all water lines and the toilet ran pink. I also poured a cup of antifreeze down each drain (2 in the kitchen sink, the bathroom sink, and the wet bath drain). While prepping the bathroom, I also made sure the shower ran pink. There was some water in there from the PO's use. Finally, I have a macerator, so I poured 2 gallons of antifreeze into the black tank and bumped the pump a few times to get some pink into it.

I don't plan to collect the RV antifreeze in the spring. There was a post on the GMCForum indicating that used antifreeze provided a nice breeding ground for microbes and bacteria. I think I'll pass on the reuse. Instead, I'll be installing the heater bypass so I can get away with using only a few gallons of fresh antifreeze next year.

Wasn't the least expensive way to go by far, but gave this newbie some peace of mind. I used about 10 gallons of antifreeze total (Camco Arctic Ban -50 Degree RV/Marine).

Good luck!

 

[Matt Colie]

Jamie,
Your coach is largely plumbed in plastic if I am not mistaken. (Not a great bet) So, is the loose lines freeze, it is no big issue. The flush valve on the toilet is. That is very easy to miss. I have always blown the system clear. If you blow the water heater down so not water shows, then it is freeze protected.

Being cautious is better than breaking things.

Matt

 

[traveler1980]

Jamie,
Your coach is largely plumbed in plastic if I am not mistaken. (Not a great bet) So, is the loose lines freeze, it is no big issue. The flush valve on the toilet is. That is very easy to miss. I have always blown the system clear. If you blow the water heater down so not water shows, then it is freeze protected.

Being cautious is better than breaking things.

Matt

Thanks Matt! Yep, all of the plumbing in my coach is plastic (polybutylene?). Also, on my water heater, which I think is original, there is a petcock on the bottom that drains the tank through a rubber line to the passenger side bogey wheel well. It hadn't been used in years, was clogged with gunk, and was difficult to reach, but I managed to get it to work to empty the tank. Small victories.

Jamie

 

[LQQKatJon]

A waterheater bypass sure saves anti-freeze.

You can get by with blowing out lines, but that is not 100% all the time. Sometimes air can go by some water and it collects in low spots later. And some toilet valves will always leave water in them.

Some coaches are set up
To drain well.

About $50 and a few hours of time gets a bypass kit and pump kit installed. Takes me about 15 minutes to winterize my coach, and a gallon of anti-freeze.

 

[tmsnyder]

Just to follow up on this, I ended up using a 5 gallon Cornelius keg to push antifreeze into the city water connection. With the keg upside down I charged the system with my air compressor regulator set at 10psi. This was to pressurize the hot water tank so it wouldn't consume all the antifreeze right away. Then I ran the hot and cold water in the galley and bathroom until it was blowing mostly air. It never really stopped sputtering water occasionally, water definitely remains behind when trying to blow out with air.

Then I let the system recharge to 10psi with air. Once the air stopped flowing, I turned the keg right side up and ran the cold water slowly in the galley until it ran pink. I didn't want to drop the pressure enough to pull air from the hot water tank. Then I cracked open the bathroom sink until it ran pink, and the shower head, and the toilet. I think that this way I was able to clear out and get antifreeze into all the cold water lines except maybe the little section from the pump to where it connects to the line between the galley/head/city water without loosing too much antifreeze to the hot water tank.

For the hot water side, I connected to the galley sink with an aerator adapter and charged the system with 10psi of air from the keg upside down. Then I righted the keg and opened the hot water valve in the bathroom. This swept the lines from the galley to the bathroom with antifreeze and also from the bathroom to the hot water tank b/c the hot water tank would have vented pressure and then refilled with pressurized antifreeze after I turned off the bathroom sink.

The last little bit of line was from the pump to the cold water system. The only way I could flush this was by disconnecting the line from the tank to the pump and connecting a hose to my last little bit of antifreeze. Using this I was able to get the about a 1/2 gallon through the pump and to the galley sink faucet and down the drain.

All told I used 2 gallons of pink antifreeze. I think I got all the water out of the lines but only time will tell.

 

[JBurt]

Just to follow up on this, I ended up using a 5 gallon Cornelius keg to push antifreeze into the city water connection. With the keg upside down I charged the system with my air compressor regulator set at 10psi. This was to pressurize the hot water tank so it wouldn't consume all the antifreeze right away. Then I ran the hot and cold water in the galley and bathroom until it was blowing mostly air. It never really stopped sputtering water occasionally, water definitely remains behind when trying to blow out with air.

Then I let the system recharge to 10psi with air. Once the air stopped flowing, I turned the keg right side up and ran the cold water slowly in the galley until it ran pink. I didn't want to drop the pressure enough to pull air from the hot water tank. Then I cracked open the bathroom sink until it ran pink, and the shower head, and the toilet. I think that this way I was able to clear out and get antifreeze into all the cold water lines except maybe the little section from the pump to where it connects to the line between the galley/head/city water without loosing too much antifreeze to the hot water tank.

For the hot water side, I connected to the galley sink with an aerator adapter and charged the system with 10psi of air from the keg upside down. Then I righted the keg and opened the hot water valve in the bathroom. This swept the lines from the galley to the bathroom with antifreeze and also from the bathroom to the hot water tank b/c the hot water tank would have vented pressure and then refilled with pressurized antifreeze after I turned off the bathroom sink.

The last little bit of line was from the pump to the cold water system. The only way I could flush this was by disconnecting the line from the tank to the pump and connecting a hose to my last little bit of antifreeze. Using this I was able to get the about a 1/2 gallon through the pump and to the galley sink faucet and down the drain.

All told I used 2 gallons of pink antifreeze. I think I got all the water out of the lines but only time will tell.

If you have a macerator, make sure you have antifreeze in it also.

 

[bdub]

http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/g6990-winterizing-sweetpea.html

 

[traveler1980]

http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/g6990-winterizing-sweetpea.html

Love the little door to the water heater bypass. I am going to install a bypass next year, but the plastic insert behind the sliding door has been riveted into place, so I'll need to pop those to gain access. Is it typically held in place with screws?

I'd also like to build a similar hatch when I do the install.

 

[traveler1980]

Another quick question about winterizing. I have a bypass on my pump and ran antifreeze through the plumbing after blowing out all of the lines from the city water inlet (faucets, toilet, shower head ran pink). When I pumped in the antifreeze, do you think it made it all the way down to the city water inlet and draincock by the wheel well? Should I pump some antifreeze into the city water inlet just to be sure water didn't settle down there?

This is my first winter with the coach and I'm a little nervous that I may have missed some critical step. Don't want any unpleasant surprises in the spring.

 

[bdub]

I never have and have not had any problem.
As far as that goes, I've also left the water in my water heater with no problem either. It is a pressure vessle with an air space. But, now that I'm able, I drain it every year.

 

[Rdenney]

I’ve tried many strategies, but in the end, trying to save a few bucks in antifreeze isn’t worth the hassle of blowing out lines, recovering antifreeze, installing a bypass, installing a siphon entry into the water pump, etc.

I just drain the tank and water heater, pour 8 gallons of antifreeze into the tank, open the kitchen sink hot water tap, and turn on the pump. When the water heater is full, pink stuff will come out of the faucet. I then, in sequence, run every faucet, hot and cold, and including the toilet and shower handle. When all run pink, I put an empty antifreeze bottle under the faucet, fill it halfway, and pour it into the drains. (I will be installing those waterless drain traps soon.) Then, I open all the drains and empty everything, including running the drained pink stuff through the macerator.

This year, all that took no more than half an hour.

I tried once to recapture antifreeze, but found that it goes stale and supports mold growth after a while. I always bleach the system in the spring, but still.

I have a pressure tank which doesn’t drain easily using gravity or compressed air. I have every pipe and hose material known to man, I think, from reinforced vinyl to copper.

Rick “whose PO uses compressed air, but who has also had to replace split pipes because of it” Denney

 

[LarryW]

How does one get an article in "Latest Resources". Got one on
Starting an engine that has been sitting for an extended period.
that I think should be available for potential new owners and others needing to start an engine that has been sitting for a long time.
Glad to have forum administrator read it over and approve before posting

 

[mcrule]

I had posted this under 'house systems' but this seems more appropriate.
For those of interest, I have a 1977 Kingsley with a full bed in the back. The tank and pump are under the bed. The mattress is next to impossible to remove, especially by yourself. I wanted to set up for quick winterizing using coach pump for pink fluid. I purchased a Camco Permanent Pump Converter Winterizing Kit- Allows You to Use Boat/RV Water Pump to Fill Pipes With Antifreeze - Lead Free, CSA Low Lead Content Certified (36543) from Amazon $14. I located a place in the outside propane area to attach the new valve. I connected 1/2" plastic hose to tank outlet to one side of valve and another from other side of valve to pump. Since the drain is also under the bed, I put a 1/2" barbed tee that had a 1/2" MPT where I can cap it off until I need to drain. That is also in the propane area. There you have it. Obviously, you can use whatever sizes work for you. If you do very cold wx camping, you would need to wrap that in insulation. I will also be installing the heater bypass.

 

[kidjedi]

For me "winterizing" means making sure nothing breaks in between the times I use the coach *during* winter. I drain the freshwater tank and remove the pump (to store in my home) and blow out the lines from that connection (where the pump was attached). I've got a 10 gallon water heater that I leave filled and powered on (propane and 120v). It is well insulated and I don't feel like I'm using that much electricity/fuel to keep it alive. Any time I need to use the coach (skiing, camping, whatever) it's a simple matter of putting the water pump back in and filling the freshwater tank.