Wiggle Waggle & Castor Alignment

larry & kaye kepple

New member
Jan 4, 1999
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I have had my 73 GMC for about a year. It has always wandered. Its sort
of like a big fat boy on a water bed going around corners. Ruts and
pavement edges cause a sway and you tend to oversteer. I have replaced
all the steering components such as:
1. Hydraulic Steering Dampener.
2. Upper and Lower Control Arm Bushings
3. Ball Joints
4. Stabilizer Bushings
5. Steering Gear Box (first a rebuilt and then a new one from
Cinnabar)
6. CV joint in steering column
7. 6 wheel alignment including adjustment of rear camber
8. New tires and Alcoa Wheels
9. Previous owner had replced rear bogie pins and I have checked for
loosness
10. Idler arm and bushing

All of this work made for a very nice tight steering system but the
wander never changed much. Early on in my replacement work I discussed
the problem with Jim Bounds and with Wes Caughlin. Wes thought it was
the steering box per his recent article.Jim suggested I get anything
loose in the steering fixed and be sure and set the castor right. He
said to set it at +2.5 deg. which is upper end of limits recommended in
manual. I told the guy doing the 6 Wheel align. to set it that way early
in my replacement sequence. But recently when I went back for a check on
the alignment I found out that he only set it at 1 deg. because he said
that is all he could get without getting the camber out of limits. Then
after doing some checking he said that GMC makes an offset upper control
arm bushing that would allow them to probably get the 2.5 deg. However
that meant changing the upper control arm bushings which had already
been replaced and a new alignment.The cost will be $300 for the offset
bushing replacement plus another $100 for another front wheel alignment.
So I said I would think about it.
Then I got an idea and tried a little experiment. If I drop the rear
end at center of tandems 3" below the normal height I should pick up 1
deg. of castor. So I tried it. The old girl was really setting on her
ass and I thought this was a silly test especially since the air bag
pressure would be quite a bit lower than the 90 PSI I typically run to
get the correct factory ride height.
I was absolutely amazed at the difference. It made the steering and
stability much better and I believe you would get few complaints from
the handling. Believe me I wouldn't have done all this steering work had
it been this way. I raised it up and down twice to verify I wasn't
fooling myself. Each time I raised it the wander would come back and my
passengers were also amazed at the difference they felt in rear end
sway.
So now I am convinced it is the lack of castor. Jim Bounds said they
will wander all over with out the full positive castor and now I believe
it. But I thought I would ask for opinions before I spend the $400.
I am still interested in the 4 bag suspension, but I have always said
I am going to get the steering as right as it can be first before I make
that decision.
 
Larry,
Mine did too.... REAL BAD! I was starting to think "How the hell does
anyone drive a sow like this!". I still have a slightly sloppy wheel
(haven't researched why yet) but the wander is all but gone now after new
shocks and adding my new Alcoas and tires last weekend. I got KYBs but if I
had the extra to spend I might have gone Bilstiens since the talk is they
are even stiffer.
Sure did the trick for me... now I'll have to go thru the rest to get the
play out but atleast she doesn't get sucked off to the side of the road
every couple of miles!!! I went to St. Joe to buy fireworks this weekend and
put 300 miles on her. No sweat!!! For the $190 for six it was well worth it.

Nate '75GB Omaha

>>>>>>

Larry Wrote:

Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 22:21:10 -0700
From: Larry & Kaye Kepple
Subject: GMC: Wiggle Waggle & Castor Alignment

I have had my 73 GMC for about a year. It has always wandered. Its sort
of like a big fat boy on a water bed going around corners. Ruts and
pavement edges cause a sway and you tend to oversteer. I have replaced
all the steering components such as

>>>>>>
 
We have put over 4000 miles on our 74 since May 15th, It
drove straight as an arrow. No wiggle waggle at all. My front wheels on the
rear bogies are so far cantered looks like there going to fall off. I don't
know if thats normal ???
But somethings working out right.
Rob Teed 74 Painted Desert

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-gmcmotorhome
> [mailto:owner-gmcmotorhome]On Behalf Of Nate Chase
> Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 1999 7:44 PM
> To: GMC
> Subject: RE: GMC: Wiggle Waggle & Castor Alignment
>
>
> Larry,
> Mine did too.... REAL BAD! I was starting to think "How the hell does
> anyone drive a sow like this!". I still have a slightly sloppy wheel
> (haven't researched why yet) but the wander is all but gone now after new
> shocks and adding my new Alcoas and tires last weekend. I got
> KYBs but if I
> had the extra to spend I might have gone Bilstiens since the talk is they
> are even stiffer.
> Sure did the trick for me... now I'll have to go thru the rest
> to get the
> play out but atleast she doesn't get sucked off to the side of the road
> every couple of miles!!! I went to St. Joe to buy fireworks this
> weekend and
> put 300 miles on her. No sweat!!! For the $190 for six it was
> well worth it.
>
> Nate '75GB Omaha
>
> >>>>>>
>
> Larry Wrote:
>
> Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 22:21:10 -0700
> From: Larry & Kaye Kepple
> Subject: GMC: Wiggle Waggle & Castor Alignment
>
> I have had my 73 GMC for about a year. It has always wandered. Its sort
> of like a big fat boy on a water bed going around corners. Ruts and
> pavement edges cause a sway and you tend to oversteer. I have replaced
> all the steering components such as
>
> >>>>>>
>
>

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>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Then I got an idea and tried a little experiment. If I drop the rear
end at center of tandems 3" below the normal height I should pick up 1
deg. of castor.
 
I'm not sure that the correct caster can't be obtained with the existing
front end geometry, but I would suggest that, if changing the vehicle riding
angle is what you want to do, it would make sense to raise the front half of
the amount, and lower the rear the other half. This would probably look
better, and give more spring action in the rear before bottoming.

Scott Shean
78 Royale
Baton Rouge, LA
 
I will always remember the first day I drove my '76 PB at highway
speeds. It was after I bought it and it scared me so much that I was
going to take it back to the guy I bought it from and then have a stop
payment put on the check. Sometimes during that first ride it would
feel like I was slowly skidding on an icy road ice. I was sure that
he had screwed me.

I later found out that it was the "Wiggle Waggle" effect. Now, 6,000
miles later and (nothing done to the suspension etc. because all checked
out OK) I am used to it and can even anticipate when it will "Wiggle Waggle".

It seems that it took me about 5,000 miles to get to this point where I am
really
comfortable driving the old coach. Except for the occasional "Wiggle Waggle"
on unevenly worn highways it drives and tracks well.

I now have a lot of confidence in the handling of my PB.

Richard Waters '76PB, Troy, MI

> Larry,
> Mine did too.... REAL BAD! I was starting to think "How the hell does
> anyone drive a sow like this!". I still have a slightly sloppy wheel
> (haven't researched why yet) but the wander is all but gone now after new
> shocks and adding my new Alcoas and tires last weekend. I got KYBs but if I
> had the extra to spend I might have gone Bilstiens since the talk is they
> are even stiffer.
> Sure did the trick for me... now I'll have to go thru the rest to get the
> play out but atleast she doesn't get sucked off to the side of the road
> every couple of miles!!! I went to St. Joe to buy fireworks this weekend and
> put 300 miles on her. No sweat!!! For the $190 for six it was well worth it.
>
> Nate '75GB Omaha
>
> >>>>>>
>
> Larry Wrote:
>
> Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 22:21:10 -0700
> From: Larry & Kaye Kepple
> Subject: GMC: Wiggle Waggle & Castor Alignment
>
> I have had my 73 GMC for about a year. It has always wandered. Its sort
> of like a big fat boy on a water bed going around corners. Ruts and
> pavement edges cause a sway and you tend to oversteer. I have replaced
> all the steering components such as
>
> >>>>>>
 
Richard;

This is a problem that should be solved and can be for not a lot of money. Mine
tracks straight as an arrow and I can actually drive with two fingers at 75.
Firts make sure the alignment is good, then tire balance. Last, but not least
adjust the steering box. Heinz did this and the directions are out there to do
it. This is a fine adjustment and can needs to be done in small increments and
then tested for 15 to 20 miles and then readjusted. The trick is that it works
backwards. As you back the adjustment out the steering seems to tighten up.
Actually what you are doing is lessening the pressure needed to turn the wheels.
If it is too tight when you turn enough to move the wheels you end up over
compensating and then you have to turn it back and you end up starting your own
wiggle waggle.

Marcus

> I will always remember the first day I drove my '76 PB at highway
> speeds. It was after I bought it and it scared me so much that I was
> going to take it back to the guy I bought it from and then have a stop
> payment put on the check. Sometimes during that first ride it would
> feel like I was slowly skidding on an icy road ice. I was sure that
> he had screwed me.
>
> I later found out that it was the "Wiggle Waggle" effect. Now, 6,000
> miles later and (nothing done to the suspension etc. because all checked
> out OK) I am used to it and can even anticipate when it will "Wiggle Waggle".
>
> It seems that it took me about 5,000 miles to get to this point where I am
> really
> comfortable driving the old coach. Except for the occasional "Wiggle Waggle"
> on unevenly worn highways it drives and tracks well.
>
> I now have a lot of confidence in the handling of my PB.
>
> Richard Waters '76PB, Troy, MI
>

>
> > Larry,
> > Mine did too.... REAL BAD! I was starting to think "How the hell does
> > anyone drive a sow like this!". I still have a slightly sloppy wheel
> > (haven't researched why yet) but the wander is all but gone now after new
> > shocks and adding my new Alcoas and tires last weekend. I got KYBs but if I
> > had the extra to spend I might have gone Bilstiens since the talk is they
> > are even stiffer.
> > Sure did the trick for me... now I'll have to go thru the rest to get the
> > play out but atleast she doesn't get sucked off to the side of the road
> > every couple of miles!!! I went to St. Joe to buy fireworks this weekend and
> > put 300 miles on her. No sweat!!! For the $190 for six it was well worth it.
> >
> > Nate '75GB Omaha
> >
> > >>>>>>
> >
> > Larry Wrote:
> >
> > Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 22:21:10 -0700
> > From: Larry & Kaye Kepple
> > Subject: GMC: Wiggle Waggle & Castor Alignment
> >
> > I have had my 73 GMC for about a year. It has always wandered. Its sort
> > of like a big fat boy on a water bed going around corners. Ruts and
> > pavement edges cause a sway and you tend to oversteer. I have replaced
> > all the steering components such as
> >
> > >>>>>>