White knuckle ride

You can also make a small shim (circular with a hole to fit the bolt) that will take up the up and down movement.
Big improvement when I did it a few years back.

Emery Stora
77 Kingsley
Frederick, CO

>
> I picked up my coach in west Los Angeles. It had a few different things adding to pretty loose and sloppy steering. Then I drove it all the way
> across LA at rush hour on the way home. It was "interesting". ;)
>
> One thing that I didn't see mentioned in the above. Technique.
>
> If you've never driven a similar vehicle before, the tendency will be to add WAY too much steering input to correct a slight deviation. By the time
> the loose suspension and weight catch up to what you asked for, the coach is now heading in the other direction, only further. So the tendency is to
> over-correct the other direction, and so on, until the coach is wagging down the road like there's a Richter 9 earthquake underway.
>
> Of course, none of that might apply to the PO, but I thought I'd bring it up because I've seen examples where the same coach was easily driven across
> the entire country by one driver, and then pronounced undrivable by another driver.
>
> On mine, a combination of a very worn relay arm (replaced with a Lenzi unit), and adjustment of the steering box had it handling really well - a true
> finger-and-thumb driver now, though nobody's going to mistake it for a sports car. ;) It's helpful to have someone turning the steering wheel back
> and forth to where the front wheels are JUST starting to wiggle. Then look at each component of the system to see which ones move at the input a lot
> more than the output. That will normally show you where the problems are.
>
> Here's a short video I made (please forgive me calling it a "control arm") of my relay arm play, for example:
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_jRxMjykiw4
> --
> Mark Hickey
> Mesa, AZ
> 1978 Royale Center Kitchen
>
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> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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I had the steering box out and rebuilt. It is 2 turns lock to lock and the chisel mark is straight ahead but at the back (bottom) Is this correct and
do I have a quick steering box? I rebuilt the steering shaft also, did I mess up on the reassembly?
--
Eric & Ree '74 ex-Sequoia + '75 Eleganza Alexandria, Ontario, Canada
 
I bought my gmc a year ago. My first ride was a little rough. Lowering the rear tire pressure and lowering the rear made all the difference.

--
1977 Kingsley 455 as stock as it gets except lots of Ragusa parts
 
Caster on front wheel drive vehicles is quite important. The more positive
caster you can get, the more the machine wants to go in a straight line and
to re-center the steering after a turn. That is obtained by adjusting the
UPPER REAR MOST ECCENTRIC BUSHING ON THE UPPER CONTROL ARM. Aftermarket
bushings are available to allow you to gain even more caster, and are
necessary in a lot of cases with the GMC. If the rear of the GMC is higher
than spec, it has the effect of removing positive caster and defeating
anti-dive geometry engineered into the front suspension when heavy braking
and the resultant weight transfer occurs.
Camber on your coach should be 0 when at ride height.
Toe-in/out should be a tiny bit out most of the time, but no more
than 1/16" -1/8". When the tires begin to propel the coach forward, they
tend to "walk around" center point, or Toe-in slightly. If they are not
both very close to the same, torque steer will rear it's ugly head. More on
some coaches than others, but almost always on steep uphills, wet or
slippery surfaces, or heavily laden coaches with a rear bias. Nature of the
beast.
Of all adjustments, RIDE HEIGHT IS THE MOST CRITICAL. WORK AT GETTING
IT CORRECT. IT IS IMPORTANT.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Or
78 GMC ROYALE 403

> I bought my gmc a year ago. My first ride was a little rough. Lowering the
> rear tire pressure and lowering the rear made all the difference.
>
> --
> 1977 Kingsley 455 as stock as it gets except lots of Ragusa parts
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
 
Eric,

I can help on the matter of the chisel mark on the bottom of the shaft.
You, or someone, has had the column apart and put the tilt yoke
joint apart half a turn wrong. It's no problem as long as you don't try to
cheat a correction. Alex Ferrara found the same problem on
my coach at Shawnee and, of course, I know who did the evil deed.

Gary Kosier
77PB w/500Cad
Newark, Ohio

--------------------------------------------------
From: "ree.eric"
Sent: Friday, May 26, 2017 2:42 PM
To:
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] White knuckle ride

> I had the steering box out and rebuilt. It is 2 turns lock to lock and the
> chisel mark is straight ahead but at the back (bottom) Is this correct and
> do I have a quick steering box? I rebuilt the steering shaft also, did I
> mess up on the reassembly?
> --
> Eric & Ree '74 ex-Sequoia + '75 Eleganza Alexandria, Ontario,
> Canada
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
 
I will fix it at the CV joint that I did have apart, the turn signal cancellation will not work properly unless I fix it.
--
Eric & Ree '74 ex-Sequoia + '75 Eleganza Alexandria, Ontario, Canada
 
Rees,

I don't really understand what you are saying, however, see MMX-7525,
Section 9, page 9-38, PITMAN SHAFT "OVER CENTER' SECTOR ADJUSTMENT.

Regards,
Rob M.
The Pedantic Mechanic
USAussie - Downunder
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
USA '77 Kingsley - TZE 267V100808


-----Original Message-----
From: Gmclist [mailto:gmclist-bounces] On Behalf Of ree.eric
Sent: Saturday, May 27, 2017 4:42 AM
To: gmclist
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] White knuckle ride

I had the steering box out and rebuilt. It is 2 turns lock to lock and the
chisel mark is straight ahead but at the back (bottom) Is this correct and
do I have a quick steering box? I rebuilt the steering shaft also, did I
mess up on the reassembly?
--
Eric & Ree '74 ex-Sequoia + '75 Eleganza Alexandria, Ontario, Canada

_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
 
If you have the OEM steering box you should have 3 1/3 turns from stop to
stop

On Sat, May 27, 2017 at 12:35 AM, Rob Mueller
wrote:

> Rees,
>
> I don't really understand what you are saying, however, see MMX-7525,
> Section 9, page 9-38, PITMAN SHAFT "OVER CENTER' SECTOR ADJUSTMENT.
>
> Regards,
> Rob M.
> The Pedantic Mechanic
> USAussie - Downunder
> AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
> USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
> USA '77 Kingsley - TZE 267V100808
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Gmclist [mailto:gmclist-bounces] On Behalf Of
> ree.eric
> Sent: Saturday, May 27, 2017 4:42 AM
> To: gmclist
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] White knuckle ride
>
> I had the steering box out and rebuilt. It is 2 turns lock to lock and the
> chisel mark is straight ahead but at the back (bottom) Is this correct and
> do I have a quick steering box? I rebuilt the steering shaft also, did I
> mess up on the reassembly?
> --
> Eric & Ree '74 ex-Sequoia + '75 Eleganza Alexandria, Ontario,
> Canada
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>

--
Bruce Hart
1976 Palm Beach
Milliken, Co
GMC=Got More Class
 
Rees:
I don't understand what you are saying either!
I am not a mechanic but am trying to learn as much as I can about my beloved GMC's - so please explain yourself to a novice.
Thanks,
Mike/The Corvair a holic

Sent from my iPhone

>
> Rees,
>
> I don't really understand what you are saying, however, see MMX-7525,
> Section 9, page 9-38, PITMAN SHAFT "OVER CENTER' SECTOR ADJUSTMENT.
>
> Regards,
> Rob M.
> The Pedantic Mechanic
> USAussie - Downunder
> AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
> USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
> USA '77 Kingsley - TZE 267V100808
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Gmclist [mailto:gmclist-bounces] On Behalf Of ree.eric
> Sent: Saturday, May 27, 2017 4:42 AM
> To: gmclist
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] White knuckle ride
>
> I had the steering box out and rebuilt. It is 2 turns lock to lock and the
> chisel mark is straight ahead but at the back (bottom) Is this correct and
> do I have a quick steering box? I rebuilt the steering shaft also, did I
> mess up on the reassembly?
> --
> Eric & Ree '74 ex-Sequoia + '75 Eleganza Alexandria, Ontario, Canada
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
 
Sir to check steering column shaft allignment: the mark for the steering wheel is at 12:00 when the lower clamp bolt to steering box is on the left
side from drivers seat. If they are you might have the blue shaft from column to box out of time 180*. When all is in allignment with the steering
box on center the centerline of the lower clamp bolt will intersect the centerline of the pitman arm at the drag link joint.
Check this out..
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/steering-box/p54238-steering-box-adjustment.html

> I will fix it at the CV joint that I did have apart, the turn signal cancellation will not work properly unless I fix it.

--
C. Boyd
76 Crestmont
East Tennessee
 
Edited for emailers..

> Sir to check steering column shaft allignment: the mark for the steering wheel is at 12:00 when the upper clamp bolt to blue shaft cv is on the
> left side from drivers seat. If they are you might have the blue shaft from column to box out of time 180*. When all is in allignment with the
> steering box on center the centerline of the lower clamp bolt will intersect the centerline of the pitman arm at the drag link joint.
> Check this out..
> http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/steering-box/p54238-steering-box-adjustment.html
>
>
>

> > I will fix it at the CV joint that I did have apart, the turn signal cancellation will not work properly unless I fix it.

--
C. Boyd
76 Crestmont
East Tennessee
 
Sorry e-mailers, I'm gonna keep trying till I get it right,
Sir to check steering column shaft allignment: the mark for the steering wheel is at 12:00 when the upper clamp bolt to blue shaft cv is on the right

side from drivers seat. If they are you might have the blue shaft from column to box out of time 180*. When all is in allignment with the steering box
on center the centerline of the lower clamp bolt will intersect the centerline of the pitman arm at the drag link joint.

> Edited for emailers..
>
>

> > Sir to check steering column shaft allignment: the mark for the steering wheel is at 12:00 when the upper clamp bolt to blue shaft cv is on
> > the left side from drivers seat. If they are you might have the blue shaft from column to box out of time 180*. When all is in allignment with
> > the steering box on center the centerline of the lower clamp bolt will intersect the centerline of the pitman arm at the drag link joint.
> > Check this out..
> > http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/steering-box/p54238-steering-box-adjustment.html
> >
> >
> >

> > > I will fix it at the CV joint that I did have apart, the turn signal cancellation will not work properly unless I fix it.

--
C. Boyd
76 Crestmont
East Tennessee
 
Will try removing the 6 bolt top off the lower steering shaft and then center the upper on the chisel mark and bolting it back together, don't
remember if I took the spline apart. Surprised I went down to 2 turns from 3 1/2 in the steering box but that was 12 years ago when I started this
project, moved to a farm, built a house out off the old barn and got some cattle to raise in between.
to:The Pedantic Mechanic Found in the 77 78 supplement section 9 page 5 ALIGNMENT MARKS MARK PRIOR TO DISASSEMBLY, should have read the manual first
perhaps?
--
Eric & Ree '74 ex-Sequoia (parts) '75 Eleganza (TB, exhaust x-over blocking plates, Manny reaction arms and discs, 3"exhaust rear muffler, aux vacuum,
fuel tank sealing, rebuilt senders and new rubber, propane hot water heater.) Alexandria, Ontario, Canada
 
Eric,

Yep, I'm a PITA regarding the manuals!

Don't feel bad about not reading the manual first, if you check X-7425 or
X-7525 you won't find anything about the Lower Steering Shaft. GMC added the
Lower Steering Shaft in X-7625 1976 Maintenance Manual Supplement. I suspect
LOTS of mechanics were taking it apart and mis-assembling it.

Regards,
Rob M.
The Pedantic Mechanic
USAussie - Downunder
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
USA '77 Kingsley - TZE 267V100808


-----Original Message-----
From: ree.eric

Will try removing the 6 bolt top off the lower steering shaft and then
center the upper on the chisel mark and bolting it back together, don't
remember if I took the spline apart. Surprised I went down to 2 turns from 3
1/2 in the steering box but that was 12 years ago when I started this
project, moved to a farm, built a house out off the old barn and got some
cattle to raise in between.
to:The Pedantic Mechanic Found in the 77 78 supplement section 9 page 5
ALIGNMENT MARKS MARK PRIOR TO DISASSEMBLY, should have read the manual first
perhaps?
--
Eric & Ree
 
If your linkages are connected and your system is Not centered correctly, then counting box turns is useless as system is out of Symmetry. Start at
the top with your eyes and be sure the column scribe and wheel scribe are matched or your canceling cam will never work right. The second one
minuite "eyes only" test is to drive straight and stop. Look under coach and see if idler and relay to centerlink are pointed due forward (parallel to
frame rail). If not then someone has messed with the tie tod ends erroneously. You can tell this without pulling the box input joint to get at the
flat for actual fine tweeking. Basically the puzzle has to be right top and bottom, then the intermediate shaft configured to drop in to that
criteria.
--
John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II
 
Got the notch on the steering shaft up and the Steering wheel only goes on in 1 position because of the hole for the horn wire. Looked at Alex
Ferrara's photos and box is centered verified by the bolt on the lower U joint in line with the pitman bolt. Hope I have it right as the pitman arm
looks like it could go on in 4 positions at 90 degree spacing. As it is only 2 turns to the end of wheel travel(stoppers) I think I have the pitman
arm on correctly.
He noted that the steering wheel error is usually 30 or 60 degrees. Moving the 6 bolt flange 1 bolt hole moves the steering wheel 60 degrees.
The spline below that connects the CV joint to the lower shaft should give 30 degrees movement which is my present error. Will try tomorrow.
I did not touch the linkages, only the box was rebuilt and the lower shaft got new ball bearings.
--
Eric & Ree '74 ex-Sequoia (parts) '75 Eleganza (TB, exhaust x-over blocking plates, Manny reaction arms and discs, 3"exhaust rear muffler, aux vacuum,
fuel tank sealing, rebuilt senders and new rubber, propane hot water heater.) Alexandria, Ontario, Canada
 
I don't have one in front of me but the horn contact ring rotates so you can get the upper shaft scribe ecactly to the st wherl scribe. One way is
correct only.
--
John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II
 
I took the 6 bolt flange off and removed the CV joint, 1 bolt. It is on a spline with 6 spline also giving 60 degrees if moved.
So I verified the steering wheel and steering shaft is centered and locked them. Took off the pitman arm and lower shaft and verified by turning end
to end that I had the center of the box. Used the magnet and steel stick on the input shaft flat spot to get the exact high center spot. Tried to put
back the lower shaft and I still seem to be off 30 degrees. I was very careful to put the spine together exactly centered were the bolt goes through.
What can I do differently to adjust for 30 degrees in the assembly of the lower shaft? I believe the blue spline has four splines (can't see it with
the rubber boot on it) If I turn one spline on the blue spline 90 degrees minus 1 turn on the 6 spline or 6 bolt shift in the other direction 60
degrees = 30 degrees?
--
Eric & Ree '74 ex-Sequoia (parts) '75 Eleganza (TB, exhaust x-over blocking plates, Manny reaction arms and discs, 3"exhaust rear muffler, aux vacuum,
fuel tank sealing, rebuilt senders and new rubber, propane hot water heater.) Alexandria, Ontario, Canada
 
Yes, the blue-coated spline has four leaves on it. You can move it 90
degrees in one direction, and 60 degrees back at the CV-joint flange to get
a 30-degree adjustment.

By the way, I would leave the bottom of the blue-spline boot loose.
Anything that gets in there should have an easy way out.

Rick "no easy way to wrestle with the greased pig" Denney

> I took the 6 bolt flange off and removed the CV joint, 1 bolt. It is on a
> spline with 6 spline also giving 60 degrees if moved.
> So I verified the steering wheel and steering shaft is centered and locked
> them. Took off the pitman arm and lower shaft and verified by turning end
> to end that I had the center of the box. Used the magnet and steel stick
> on the input shaft flat spot to get the exact high center spot. Tried to put
> back the lower shaft and I still seem to be off 30 degrees. I was very
> careful to put the spine together exactly centered were the bolt goes
> through.
> What can I do differently to adjust for 30 degrees in the assembly of the
> lower shaft? I believe the blue spline has four splines (can't see it with
> the rubber boot on it) If I turn one spline on the blue spline 90 degrees
> minus 1 turn on the 6 spline or 6 bolt shift in the other direction 60
> degrees = 30 degrees?
> --
> Eric & Ree '74 ex-Sequoia (parts) '75 Eleganza (TB, exhaust x-over
> blocking plates, Manny reaction arms and discs, 3"exhaust rear muffler, aux
> vacuum,
> fuel tank sealing, rebuilt senders and new rubber, propane hot water
> heater.) Alexandria, Ontario, Canada
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>

--
'73 X-Glacier 230 "Jaws"
Northern Virginia
Offlist email: rick at rickdenney dot com
 
Got it! That blue spline is not easy to get apart. A grease nipple threaded into the drain hole then one might be able to use grease pressure to push
it out but you would need to remove the U joint for access.
I left the bottom boot without a tie wrap and I put lots of grease in the spline.
Thanks to all and I hope the extra hours spent teaches me to read to manual first. :p
Off to my US package pick up for more parts soon, I am close to the border. Digi Panel, gas tank elbow and more have arrived.
--
Eric & Ree '74 ex-Sequoia (parts) '75 Eleganza (TB, exhaust x-over blocking plates, Manny reaction arms and discs, 3"exhaust rear muffler, aux vacuum,
fuel tank sealing, rebuilt senders and new rubber, propane hot water heater.) Alexandria, Ontario, Canada