what to do?

[michael b gardner]

I have joined the family of GMC MH enthusiasts after stumbling upon one at a barn sale near me in August. I couldn't pass it up for the nominal amount
of money I paid. Pretty sure I could tow it to a junkyard and not lose anything. I have some pics that I will post to the photo site. Ok. here's the
link to the photos http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/g6987-ohio-2773-b230.html i will try to embed a few here now.

http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/data/6987/IMG_1944.JPG
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/data/6987/IMG_1944.JPG
not sure if this worked. perhaps when it posts it will.
My wife and I are 61, semi-retired. We took a family vacation in Alaska by renting a 28-30 foot Ford Cabover RV, put 4200 miles on it and loved it 13
years ago.

What I have acquired is an equitable interest in the vehicle. The seller is some county agency that received the real estate including the barn and
its contents by a tax forfeiture sale. In Ohio you can't lawfully sell a motor vehicle without delivering title. I've been working on acquiring title
to it since. I have located the titled owner, who is a alive but without interest in the MH and am optimistic that I can acquire title for the same
money or get my money back from the County agency and walk away.

What I want is a nice reliable, functional and safe RV that I can eventually drive around North America in to see my kids, familiy and hopefully
grandkids some day.

I started out high in enthusiam for a frame off restoration. I have some mechanical skills, have a large barn with a cement floor and a mechanical
engineer/gear head acquaintance/partner im my maple sap production operation at my farm who said he would restore this for me to
functional/reliable/safe standards for a fee; A question i asked him before I plunked down my money. The MH appears to be last plated in 1994 or 95.
It sits in this huge barn over a concrete oil change pit filled with junk. We both have crawled into the pit and to look at the frame and it does not
appear to suffer from any serious rust issues or leaks near the tanks. I brought my floor jack to jack up the RV in the rear to change the flat tire
with the spare and brought my compressor to air up the all the tires, in order to make it easier to pull it onto a medium size wrecker that another
acquaintance has who owes me a free tow. I could not get the floor jack under the bogey frame, so ended up on the read subframe, jacking it up with a
4 * 4 that reached both sides of the subframe until i could set it on a jack stand and then could get the jack under the bogey to lift if high enough
to change the wheel. The drum appeared to be seized. I set it back down and the bumper returned to where it started hopefully without distorting the
subframe. I have hopes that the wrecker will be able to break the drums frees so that it will roll.
The key does not turn enough to allow the steering wheel or the shift lever to budge, but the shift indicator indicates it's in neutral. I may have to
manually release the transmission. I have already removed a spare engine, transmission and misc mechanicals from the PO

The existing interior is dirty grimy. The coach is all there from a body, trim, lights, windows,seats, cushions, cabinets, bath, sink. range frig etc.
No obvious damage other than it doesn't run or move. No mice damage except in one of the rear passenger exterior compartments that was insulated.
Can't recall whether that was where the Onan was or not.

My mechanic friend and I have both read a lot on the forum.

My mechanic friend thinks the frame off restoration is the way to go. I was enthusiastic about this until i started reading more.

After further reading the forum, I'm of the opinion that I will end up spending more that way than the coach will ever be worth. And have generally
accepted the principal that I should buy one that I can most afford and find one well cared for and looking for a good home.
Upgrades that I'd like would be:

rear disk brakes ($_______),
reaction arms ($_______),
sully air bags or equivalent ($_______)
the 1-ton front end ($_______),
16" alcoas/tires ($_______)
a dry bath ($_______),
and of course a reasonably nice new interior ($_______).

So I left to decide what to do with what i've got. My choices seem to be:
1. Walk. Get my nominal purchase price back
2. Don't mess with the title any further. Have it towed to my barn and offer it up for parts and use the proceeds towards a purchase. My question for
the forum is what can I reasonable expect to receive for it by parting it out and/or as a core?
3. Further mess further with obtaining title. Get it running, get it to stop reliably. (Tires & Brakes and air bags seem ok but... compressor?? etc,
anyting else mechanically to be road worthy) Clean up the interior (not go overboard) and sell it as is. My question for the forum is assuming I can
estimate the what it takes to make it mechanically road worthy, what might I expect to be able to sell it for next spring?

Lastly, what should I expect to pay for a coach worthy of the desired upgrades

And if anyone could put some dollar estimates or ranges in the brackets for the upgrades, that would be appreciated.

Also, how do i know what kind of coach this is? All i have from the title the B230 Model, e.g., painted desert, canyonland, birchaven. I have seen no
such indicators anywhere.

Thanks, all. And look forward to seeing you on the road some day.

 

[timthenomad]

Looks to be a side bath Birchaven from the striping on the front, but the fridge vent looks to be one from a GM finished coach.
--
Tim Taylor
Austin TX
76 Birchaven (SB)
76 Triumph TR6

 

[Matt Colie]

Micheal,

I wish you luck with getting a title.
We have a standard expression here: A Reliable, Ready to travel coach will cost 25K, all at once or as a kit.
It holds very true, but it has not been corrected for inflation but does not include a "sweat equity" value.

It is a 73 or 4 and there were 4 models that were only color schemes. Canyon Lands, Painted Desert, Sequoia and Glacier. As I recall, only the
Glacier was a white exterior, but the inside trim would all be blues.

Unless you choose to roll more money into this that I could ever deem rational, converting it to a dry bath is simply impractical. But, if the
driveline is operational, getting the coach usable is very possible. If a rear wheel is locked up, the standard answer is that a wheel cylinder had
probably leaked. Take the tire off and beat on the drum to break it loose. I have had a modicum of success with this method.

As to your list:
rear disk brakes ($_______), Has lots of complications not all have been cleared yet. Study the options.
reaction arms ($_______), Do it. This can be converted to accommodate disk if you still want them. A Gemini 23 is a light coach and the drums do
well.
sully air bags or equivalent ($_______) Wait this until you find out what shape those you have are and it is an in expensive and simple mod.
the 1-ton front end ($_______), Has a lot to recommend it, but wait to find out if you need it.
16" alcoas/tires ($_______) You need 16". Alcoas are nice. There are options.
a dry bath ($_______), I would have to see a plan for this. Our wet bath works OK and we have used it (and the oven in the stove too.)
and of course a reasonably nice new interior ($_______). When it is cleaned, you might like what you have.

Well, you are in the right place to get good answers. Keep asking questions.

As to parting out. Unless you have lots of free time and the floor space is also free, that is a tough thing to do. I am currently parting out a
coach the owner hoped to save, but that turned out to be non-economic. A relatively clean and driveable coach goes for 5~7K. No brakes takes off 2K.
Doesn't run makes it real cheap. Before you get involved any farther, put a wrench on the front of the crank and pull it through two full turn. If
it does that, it has a chance of running. If you have the time and energy, go for it.

I wish you luck.

Matt

--
Matt & Mary Colie - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
'73 Glacier 23 - Still Loving OE Rear Drum Brake with Applied Control Arms
Now with both true Keyless and remote entry
SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit

 

[Matt Colie]

> Looks to be a side bath Birchaven from the striping on the front, but the fridge vent looks to be one from a GM finished coach.

Tim,
You need to look at the his pictures carefully. See the plate on the Door Handle? It is probably a 73 (maybe 74).
But the tag in a later picture says 8/73. It can't be a Birchaven.
The striping and letters were added.
Matt
--
Matt & Mary Colie - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
'73 Glacier 23 - Still Loving OE Rear Drum Brake with Applied Control Arms
Now with both true Keyless and remote entry
SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit

 

[Jerry Wheeler]

You are much better off forgetting this deal and buying a GMC that has
already been updated and currently in use. You'll get much more for your
dollar and won't have the headaches restoring one of these since you don't
really know what you have at this time. If you want to spend years and
many dollars, then go for it.
JR Wheeler 78 Royale NC/OR

> Micheal,
>
> I wish you luck with getting a title.
> We have a standard expression here: A Reliable, Ready to travel coach
> will cost 25K, all at once or as a kit.
> It holds very true, but it has not been corrected for inflation but does
> not include a "sweat equity" value.
>
> It is a 73 or 4 and there were 4 models that were only color schemes.
> Canyon Lands, Painted Desert, Sequoia and Glacier. As I recall, only the
> Glacier was a white exterior, but the inside trim would all be blues.
>
> Unless you choose to roll more money into this that I could ever deem
> rational, converting it to a dry bath is simply impractical. But, if the
> driveline is operational, getting the coach usable is very possible. If a
> rear wheel is locked up, the standard answer is that a wheel cylinder had
> probably leaked. Take the tire off and beat on the drum to break it
> loose. I have had a modicum of success with this method.
>
> As to your list:
> rear disk brakes ($_______), Has lots of complications not all have been
> cleared yet. Study the options.
> reaction arms ($_______), Do it. This can be converted to accommodate
> disk if you still want them. A Gemini 23 is a light coach and the drums do
> well.
> sully air bags or equivalent ($_______) Wait this until you find out what
> shape those you have are and it is an in expensive and simple mod.
> the 1-ton front end ($_______), Has a lot to recommend it, but wait to
> find out if you need it.
> 16" alcoas/tires ($_______) You need 16". Alcoas are nice. There are
> options.
> a dry bath ($_______), I would have to see a plan for this. Our wet bath
> works OK and we have used it (and the oven in the stove too.)
> and of course a reasonably nice new interior ($_______). When it is
> cleaned, you might like what you have.
>
> Well, you are in the right place to get good answers. Keep asking
> questions.
>
> As to parting out. Unless you have lots of free time and the floor space
> is also free, that is a tough thing to do. I am currently parting out a
> coach the owner hoped to save, but that turned out to be non-economic. A
> relatively clean and driveable coach goes for 5~7K. No brakes takes off 2K.
> Doesn't run makes it real cheap. Before you get involved any farther, put
> a wrench on the front of the crank and pull it through two full turn. If
> it does that, it has a chance of running. If you have the time and
> energy, go for it.
>
> I wish you luck.
>
> Matt
>
>
> --
> Matt & Mary Colie - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
> '73 Glacier 23 - Still Loving OE Rear Drum Brake with Applied Control Arms
> Now with both true Keyless and remote entry
> SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>

 

[terry1]

The 23 foot model is a bit more sought after than the 26 because there were less of them made. I would get a title for it and get it cleaned up enough
to sell if the rest of the project seems too daunting for you. If the engine block and bearings are still good, you can probably make it run and stop
for a few thousand in parts and your labor. Just a set of tires will set you back at least a thousand, more if you get new wheels. Lots of knowledge
on this forum and GMCers that will help, and they can be rehabbed in less than a year by ambitious people, check out Bob Dunahugh's restoration
postings for inspiration. Most important is to make it legally yours and get to your own storage/work area without further damage: then you can
evaluate at your own pace while cleaning it up. Be sure and check out Rob Mueller's (I think it was Rob) guide to towing a GMC before you tow it to
avoid damage to the transmission. DO NOT pull it up on a rollback or flatbed by attaching a cable to the very front crossmember (the one with the
holes in it), it will not take that strain.
--
Terry Kelpien

ASE Master Technician

73 Glacier 260

Smithfield, Va.

 

[a.]

> You are much better off forgetting this deal and buying a GMC that has already been updated and currently in use. You'll get much more for your
> dollar and won't have the headaches restoring one of these since you don't really know what you have at this time. If you want to spend years and
> many dollars, then go for it.
> JR Wheeler 78 Royale NC/OR
I would word that differently. Don't jump into a frame off restoration. Get it running and stopping with new rubber (tires, hoses, belts, boots, brake
flex lines), clean up the interior and make it habitable, render the fixtures and fittings operable, and take it camping a few times. Should be able
to do that for less than $5,000 in parts, doing the labor yourself.

Then decide if you want to put lots more effort and dollars into it.
--
73 23' Sequoia 4 Sale
73 23' CanyonLands Parts Unit 4 Sale
Upper Alabama
"Highest price does not guarantee highest quality."

 

[Ken B]

A frame off restoration may be totally unnecessary at this point. Unless there is a frame problem I would not even consider it at this point. I
would instead concentrate on getting it rolling and then running first. After that, you can better assess what you need to do to it.

You need to figure out how to air up the air bags. If you can not get the air system running, get a couple of schrader valves from Ace hardware for
about $2.00 each and screw them into the air bag fittings where the air hoses go. This will then allow you to air each bag with an air compressor or
portable air tank. You probably will need around 80 PSI or so to bring it up level. After that you should be able to slip a jack under the rear
bogie mount and raise it farther or completely off of the ground. .

Note: Once it is on the jack and raised an inch or two, release the air pressure in the air bag before raising the coach completely off of the
ground. If you do not do this you may destroy one or both rear shocks.

In my state (Indiana) you can get a new title for older vehicles previously owned by someone else for around $100. We do this all the time on
motorcycles. You need to check with your state BMV to see what their process is for something like this.


--
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana

 

[don adams]

...Upgrades that I'd like would be:

rear disk brakes ($_______),
reaction arms ($_______),
sully air bags or equivalent ($_______)
the 1-ton front end ($_______),
16" alcoas/tires ($_______)
a dry bath ($_______),
and of course a reasonably nice new interior ($_______).

All of those are nice, very nice if you want to, but totally unnecessary in my opinion.

Clean it up and if you can get it to go, use it. "Upgrades" come later for the fun of it.

--
Don Adams Dallas, TX
'76 26' Glenbrook, '90 Sidekick
rebuilt by R Archer, powered by J Bounds, Koba

"]http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/data/6109/G2.jpg[/IMG][/url]

 

[johnny]

I'd skip the disks in back, just fit drum reaction arms. If the fitted bags hold air, run with them. Get the Sully system when they act up. The
alternative to the one ton front end is Dave Lenzi hubs and parts, and that would be my choice. They're greasable which negates the need to take
the thing apart regularly. 16" alloys and tyres will run 2 Large to 2500, depending on the ones you get. The interior includes the bath, let your
pocket and your time be your guide. If you pay it done, RV tech time locally runs around 100 - 115 a man hour. Buy the parts and do the install
yourself unless you've way more money than me. I expect Sonicjk would run you up a set of cabinets and pieces. They won't be cheap, but his stuff
looks good and looks like it's built to last. Any good cabinet shop should be able to make stuff to your drawings, but again not for cheap. Ask
Bound or Sirum or Kanomata what their average interior rebuild is running to these days. Be sitting down. Get the coach mechanically sound and you
can use it while you upgrade the inside one piece at a time. If you leave the bath and kitchen, you can upgrade piecemeal, but if they are going to
be moved you'll just about hafta take the back off and strip the coach, reposition the plumbing, and start from scratch. Your choice, your dime.

--johnny
--
'76 23' transmode Norris upfit, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.

"Sometimes I wonder what tomorrow's gonna bring when I think about my dirty life and times" --Warren Zevon

 

[robert mueller]

Michael,

COMMENTS BELOW IN CAPS FOR CLARITY, I'M NOT SHOUTING.

Regards,
Rob M.
USAussie - Downunder
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426

-----Original Message-----
From: Gmclist [mailto:gmclist-bounces] On Behalf Of MICHAEL B GARDNER
Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2016 2:04 AM
To: gmclist
Subject: [GMCnet] what to do?

I have joined the family of GMC MH enthusiasts after stumbling upon one at a barn sale near me in August. I couldn't pass it up for
the nominal amount of money I paid. Pretty sure I could tow it to a junkyard and not lose anything. I have some pics that I will
post to the photo site. Ok. here's the link to the photos http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/g6987-ohio-2773-b230.html i will try to
embed a few here now.
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/data/6987/IMG_1944.JPG
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/data/6987/IMG_1944.JPG
not sure if this worked. perhaps when it posts it will.

My wife and I are 61, semi-retired. We took a family vacation in Alaska by renting a 28-30 foot Ford Cabover RV, put 4200 miles on
it and loved it 13 years ago.

HAVING YOUR WIFE ON SIDE IF YOU UNDERTAKE THIS PROJECT WILL BE A BENEFIT.

What I have acquired is an equitable interest in the vehicle. The seller is some county agency that received the real estate
including the barn and its contents by a tax forfeiture sale. In Ohio you can't lawfully sell a motor vehicle without delivering
title. I've been working on acquiring title to it since. I have located the titled owner, who is a alive but without interest in the
MH and am optimistic that I can acquire title for the same money or get my money back from the County agency and walk away.

WHAT I SEE IN THE PICTURES IS A GMC THAT IN MY OPINION IS WORTH A COUPLE OF GRAND MAYBE.

What I want is a nice reliable, functional and safe RV that I can eventually drive around North America in to see my kids, familiy
and hopefully grandkids some day.

IF YOU DO MOST OF THE WORK YOURSELF YOU'LL WIND UP SPENDING $25,000 - $30,000 MINIMUM.

I started out high in enthusiam for a frame off restoration. I have some mechanical skills, have a large barn with a cement floor
and a mechanical engineer/gear head acquaintance/partner im my maple sap production operation at my farm who said he would restore
this for me to functional/reliable/safe standards for a fee;

ADD HIS "FEE" TO THE NUMBERS ABOVE.

A question i asked him before I plunked down my money. The MH appears to be last plated in 1994 or 95. It sits in this huge barn
over a concrete oil change pit filled with junk. We both have crawled into the pit and to look at the frame and it does not appear
to suffer from any serious rust issues or leaks near the tanks.

THE CRITICAL POINT FOR RUST IN THE REAR IS JUST IN FRONT AND BACK OF THE BOGIES (HOUSE THE PIVOT POINTS OF THE REAR SUSPENSION
ARMS).

I brought my floor jack to jack up the RV in the rear to change the flat tire with the spare and brought my compressor to air up
the all the tires, in order to make it easier to pull it onto a medium size wrecker that another acquaintance has who owes me a free
tow. I could not get the floor jack under the bogey frame,

YOU NEED ONE OF THESE:

http://www.appliedgmc.com/prod.itml/icOid/1103

so ended up on the read subframe, jacking it up with a 4 * 4 that reached both sides of the subframe until i could set it on a jack
stand and then could get the jack under the bogey to lift if high enough to change the wheel. The drum appeared to be seized. I set
it back down and the bumper returned to where it started hopefully without distorting the subframe. I have hopes that the wrecker
will be able to break the drums frees so that it will roll.

DID YOU CHECK AND SEE IF THE PARKING BRAKE WAS ENGAGED?

The key does not turn enough to allow the steering wheel or the shift lever to budge, but the shift indicator indicates it's in
neutral. I may have to manually release the transmission. I have already removed a spare engine, transmission and misc mechanicals
from the PO

IF THE SPARE ENGINE AND RTRANS HAVE BEEN SITTING 20 YEARS IT WOULD BE A GOOD IDEA TO PULL THE HEADS AND PAN OFF THE ENGINE AND HAVE
A LOOK SEE. THE TRANS NEEDS TO BE DISASSEMBLED AND CHECKED.

The existing interior is dirty grimy. The coach is all there from a body, trim, lights, windows,seats, cushions, cabinets, bath,
sink. range frig etc. No obvious damage other than it doesn't run or move. No mice damage except in one of the rear passenger
exterior compartments that was insulated. Can't recall whether that was where the Onan was or not.

My mechanic friend and I have both read a lot on the forum.

My mechanic friend thinks the frame off restoration is the way to go. I was enthusiastic about this until i started reading more.

After further reading the forum, I'm of the opinion that I will end up spending more that way than the coach will ever be worth.

IF WORTH = WHAT YOU COULD SELL IT FOR THEN YOU ARE UNEQUOVICALLY, ABSOULTEY, POSITIVELY, 110% CORRECT!

And have generally accepted the principal that I should buy one that I can most afford and find one well cared for and looking for a
good home.

UNLESS YOU'RE INTO RESTORING OLD VEHICLES I AGREE WITH YOU.

Upgrades that I'd like would be:

rear disk brakes ($_______),
reaction arms ($_______),
sully air bags or equivalent ($_______)
the 1-ton front end ($_______),
16" alcoas/tires ($_______)

HERE'S A LINK TO JIMK'S GMC CANDY STORE:

http://www.appliedgmc.com/index.itml

a dry bath ($_______),
and of course a reasonably nice new interior ($_______).

NO IDEA

So I left to decide what to do with what i've got. My choices seem to be:
1. Walk. Get my nominal purchase price back

CAN'T ANSWER WITHOUT KNOWING THE "NOMINAL PURCHASE PRICE."

2. Don't mess with the title any further. Have it towed to my barn and offer it up for parts and use the proceeds towards a
purchase. My question for the forum is what can I reasonable expect to receive for it by parting it out and/or as a core?

CAN'T ANSWER WITHOUT KNOWING THE "NOMINAL PURCHASE PRICE," HOWEVER, YOU'LL PROBABLY WIND UP DOING A LOT OF WORK EARNING WAY LESS
THAN WHAT YOU THINK YOU SHOULD.

3. Further mess further with obtaining title. Get it running, get it to stop reliably. (Tires & Brakes and air bags seem ok but...
compressor?? etc, anyting else mechanically to be road worthy) Clean up the interior (not go overboard) and sell it as is. My
question for the forum is assuming I can estimate the what it takes to make it mechanically road worthy, what might I expect to be
able to sell it for next spring?

GO TO EBAY AND DO A SEARCH FOR GMC MOTORHOMES - COMPLETED SALES.

Lastly, what should I expect to pay for a coach worthy of the desired upgrades

And if anyone could put some dollar estimates or ranges in the brackets for the upgrades, that would be appreciated.

Also, how do i know what kind of coach this is? All i have from the title the B230 Model, e.g., painted desert, canyonland,
birchaven. I have seen no such indicators anywhere.

Thanks, all. And look forward to seeing you on the road some day.