What am I missing here?

K

Ken B

Well-known member
Oct 9, 2002
16,834
277
83
1978 Eleganza w/ 403 engine. I am trying to replace the fuel pump. I looked at the new one and feel but con not see the the top mounting bolt area.
There is a slot in the mounting area the looks like it was designed to start the bolt and slide the pump under the head. I tried to reverse that
procedure removing it and was unsuccessful. I ended up removing both bolts and now I can pull the pump about 1 to 1.5 inches out and then it hits an
AC mounting casting above it. I can not get it to clear the casting.

I know is is a simple job because I watched Al Branscome change a pump on his in about 30 minutes at Bean Station.

I gave up for the night and cme home. I was 28 degree when I left. When I came home I looked in the 1977-78 maintenance supplement and all it say
under fuel pump is "Correct as Necessary"
--
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
 
Ken, you might be on the high part of the cam lobe. Try bumping engine a little and See if it will come out.

> 1978 Eleganza w/ 403 engine. I am trying to replace the fuel pump. I looked at the new one and feel but con not see the the top mounting bolt
> area. There is a slot in the mounting area the looks like it was designed to start the bolt and slide the pump under the head. I tried to reverse
> that procedure removing it and was unsuccessful. I ended up removing both bolts and now I can pull the pump about 1 to 1.5 inches out and then it
> hits an AC mounting casting above it. I can not get it to clear the casting.
>
> I know is is a simple job because I watched Al Branscome change a pump on his in about 30 minutes at Bean Station.
>
> I gave up for the night and cme home. I was 28 degree when I left. When I came home I looked in the 1977-78 maintenance supplement and all it say
> under fuel pump is "Correct as Necessary"

--
C. Boyd
76 Crestmont
East Tennessee
 
You tube may have vids on this. Also if equipped, lube the rodthat actuated
the pump that will hold it up away from the pump as you install it. If the
engine has no rod, you may rotate it slightly to get a cam (weird shaped
peice) to move back so you can get the pumps "pawl" or level in the hole
for the pump to seat.

Sammy Williams

1978 Eleganza w/ 403 engine. I am trying to replace the fuel pump. I
looked at the new one and feel but con not see the the top mounting bolt
area.
There is a slot in the mounting area the looks like it was designed to
start the bolt and slide the pump under the head. I tried to reverse that
procedure removing it and was unsuccessful. I ended up removing both bolts
and now I can pull the pump about 1 to 1.5 inches out and then it hits an
AC mounting casting above it. I can not get it to clear the casting.

I know is is a simple job because I watched Al Branscome change a pump on
his in about 30 minutes at Bean Station.

I gave up for the night and cme home. I was 28 degree when I left. When I
came home I looked in the 1977-78 maintenance supplement and all it say
under fuel pump is "Correct as Necessary"
--
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana

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I'm thinking you are high on the lobe. It does slide under the slot under
head of the pump. Kind of interesting to remove the pump as our
granddaughter went under the coach to remove the pump from the bottom.

I'm not going to tell you how long it took her to complete that job.

Len and Pat Novak
1978 GMC Kingsley
The Beast II with dash lights that work and labels you can see!
Fallbrook, CA new email: B52Rule
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showgallery.php?cat=4375

www.bdub.net/novak/

-----Original Message-----
From: Gmclist [mailto:gmclist-bounces] On Behalf Of Ken
Burton
Sent: Saturday, February 03, 2018 6:41 PM
To: gmclist
Subject: [GMCnet] What am I missing here?

1978 Eleganza w/ 403 engine. I am trying to replace the fuel pump. I
looked at the new one and feel but con not see the the top mounting bolt
area.
There is a slot in the mounting area the looks like it was designed to
start the bolt and slide the pump under the head. I tried to reverse that
procedure removing it and was unsuccessful. I ended up removing both bolts
and now I can pull the pump about 1 to 1.5 inches out and then it hits an
AC mounting casting above it. I can not get it to clear the casting.

I know is is a simple job because I watched Al Branscome change a pump on
his in about 30 minutes at Bean Station.

I gave up for the night and cme home. I was 28 degree when I left. When I
came home I looked in the 1977-78 maintenance supplement and all it say
under fuel pump is "Correct as Necessary"
--
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana

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---
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Sammy, I can not see inside the hole but I understand this pump are rides on a separate cam lobe mounted of the front of the engine (not off of the
cam itself). The pump has along arm that looks like is rides the top of a lobe. I have never seen inside a 403 so I could be mistaken.
--
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
 
Thanks Len,

I think I'll try that. I was cold so I just quit and came home to get warm. I was thinking I would find something in the manual when I got here.
--
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
 
I found this picture of a 78 olds 98 with a 403. It is exactly as I pictured.

https://static.cargurus.com/images/site/2015/03/28/18/37/pic-4766752386507525454-1600x1200.jpeg

It does not to help me much because I can not get it out and down far enough to Clear the AC mounting casting which is not on the engine in the
picture above.

The pump is a lever type and rides on the eccentric mounted on the front of the cam gear.

Oh well I'll go tackle at again after rotating the engine 1/2 turn and then 1 turn. (cam turns at 1/4 and 1/2 revolution).
--
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
 
If the rotational position of the cam is hindering the removal, then all you will have to do is overcome the spring in the fuel pump arm to get it
out. If overcoming the spring will not gain enough clearance, then something must be wrong somewhere in the bracketry or the pump arm.
--
Terry Kelpien

ASE Master Technician

73 Glacier 260

Smithfield, Va.
 
Actually the opposite is happening. With the pump all the way down. The arm is hitting the upper part of the hole in the block so the pump will not
go low enough to clear the AC mount.

You just gave me an idea that I did not try. When I go back I will push the pump all the way up and see I can get it to clear the AC bracket that
way.
--
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
 
Bob, I have finagled more than a few of those things in around the ac
bracket on the 403's. You kind of have to turn the pump a bit
anti-clockwise to clear the bottom of the bracket. The top fastener is a
combination nc/nf stud. The nc end screws into the block, and a nf nut and
flat washer go on the outboard end of the stud. Just screw the nut on a few
threads and install the pump. I usually stick the gasket onto the pump, so
I don't have to mess too much with aligning it. The nut and stud act like a
fulcrum to allow you to pry the operating lever a bit when the cam is
trying to operate it. Wouldn't it be nice to reach in there without the A/C
pump in the way?
Jim Hupy

Actually the opposite is happening. With the pump all the way down. The
arm is hitting the upper part of the hole in the block so the pump will not
go low enough to clear the AC mount.

You just gave me an idea that I did not try. When I go back I will push
the pump all the way up and see I can get it to clear the AC bracket that
way.
--
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana

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Wrong, I meant KEN.
Jim Hupy

> Bob, I have finagled more than a few of those things in around the ac
> bracket on the 403's. You kind of have to turn the pump a bit
> anti-clockwise to clear the bottom of the bracket. The top fastener is a
> combination nc/nf stud. The nc end screws into the block, and a nf nut and
> flat washer go on the outboard end of the stud. Just screw the nut on a few
> threads and install the pump. I usually stick the gasket onto the pump, so
> I don't have to mess too much with aligning it. The nut and stud act like a
> fulcrum to allow you to pry the operating lever a bit when the cam is
> trying to operate it. Wouldn't it be nice to reach in there without the A/C
> pump in the way?
> Jim Hupy
>

>
> Actually the opposite is happening. With the pump all the way down. The
> arm is hitting the upper part of the hole in the block so the pump will not
> go low enough to clear the AC mount.
>
> You just gave me an idea that I did not try. When I go back I will push
> the pump all the way up and see I can get it to clear the AC bracket that
> way.
> --
> Ken Burton - N9KB
> 76 Palm Beach
> Hebron, Indiana
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
>
>
 
> Wrong, I meant KEN.
> Jim Hupy

I'll answer to any name as long as I'm getting good information.

Ken B.
--
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
 
> Wrong, I meant KEN.
> Jim Hupy
>

>
> > Bob, I have finagled more than a few of those things in around the ac
> > bracket on the 403's. You kind of have to turn the pump a bit
> > anti-clockwise to clear the bottom of the bracket. The top fastener is a
> > combination nc/nf stud. The nc end screws into the block, and a nf nut and
> > flat washer go on the outboard end of the stud. Just screw the nut on a few
> > threads and install the pump. I usually stick the gasket onto the pump, so
> > I don't have to mess too much with aligning it. The nut and stud act like a
> > fulcrum to allow you to pry the operating lever a bit when the cam is
> > trying to operate it. Wouldn't it be nice to reach in there without the A/C
> > pump in the way?
> > Jim Hupy
> >

> >
> > Actually the opposite is happening. With the pump all the way down. The
> > arm is hitting the upper part of the hole in the block so the pump will not
> > go low enough to clear the AC mount.
> >
> > You just gave me an idea that I did not try. When I go back I will push
> > the pump all the way up and see I can get it to clear the AC bracket that
> > way.
> > --
> > Ken Burton - N9KB
> > 76 Palm Beach
> > Hebron, Indiana
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > GMCnet mailing list
> > Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> > http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
> >
> >
> >
> _______________________________________________
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That is exactly what I was looking for. This one is slightly different in that it had a bolts rather than a stud on top and bolt on the bottom. I'll
try your rotation to see if that works.

Do not expect a quick response back.

We are suffering through global warming here as we have all winter. The temp will be below freezing for the 7 days. 5 degrees tonight. Highs in the
mid to lower 20's for the next 7 days. Yesterday was the warmest day and I did not get the job done.

Thank you for the info. That is what I needed. Someone who has done it before.

Thanks again

Ken
--
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
 
Ken, I have a pic if the fuel pump she took off as well as the one she put
on if you want.

Len and Pat Novak
1978 GMC Kingsley
The Beast II with dash lights that work and labels you can see!
Fallbrook, CA new email: B52Rule
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showgallery.php?cat=4375

www.bdub.net/novak/

-----Original Message-----
From: Gmclist [mailto:gmclist-bounces] On Behalf Of Ken
Burton
Sent: Saturday, February 03, 2018 11:30 PM
To: gmclist
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] What am I missing here?

I found this picture of a 78 olds 98 with a 403. It is exactly as I
pictured.

https://static.cargurus.com/images/site/2015/03/28/18/37/pic-476675238650752
5454-1600x1200.jpeg

It does not to help me much because I can not get it out and down far enough
to Clear the AC mounting casting which is not on the engine in the picture
above.

The pump is a lever type and rides on the eccentric mounted on the front of
the cam gear.

Oh well I'll go tackle at again after rotating the engine 1/2 turn and then
1 turn. (cam turns at 1/4 and 1/2 revolution).
--
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana

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Thanks Len. I think I am OK. I'll try a couple of things and see what happens. I have the new pump So i know exactly what it looks like. I think
I did not try enough combinations to get it out. Let see what happens. If it does not come out I'll be back.

Thanks again to everyone for the help.

If it does not come out, I'll just have to get a bigger hammer or bigger pry bar.
--
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
 
Total guess but I bet you need to be on low part of eccentric AND overcome some arm spring tension. Otherwise it would be slack on the low part and
Clack Clack Clack
--
John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II
 
Well I went out to the coach tonight and froze. In the process I followed Jim Hupy's suggestion of rotating the pump slightly counter clockwise and
it came right out. I did not install the new one yet because I need to clean up where the gasket goes on the block and I was cold. So maybe tomorrow
I'll do that before our Pilot's Club meeting. It was 16 degrees where I was working so 30 minutes is about as long as I wanted to put up with that.

Chuck, You stated that the upper bolt as a stud. Well tonight I looked closely at the removed bolt and it was indeed a stud and a nut rust frozen
together. I haven't decided if I'll separate them and install them as a stud and nut again or if I'll just reinstall the frozen pieces as a bolt.

Thanks everyone for your suggestions.
--
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
 
Do it as a stud and it’ll be easier to locate the pump.

Emery Stora
7 Kingsley
Frederick, CO

>
> Well I went out to the coach tonight and froze. In the process I followed Jim Hupy's suggestion of rotating the pump slightly counter clockwise and
> it came right out. I did not install the new one yet because I need to clean up where the gasket goes on the block and I was cold. So maybe tomorrow
> I'll do that before our Pilot's Club meeting. It was 16 degrees where I was working so 30 minutes is about as long as I wanted to put up with that.
>
>
> Chuck, You stated that the upper bolt as a stud. Well tonight I looked closely at the removed bolt and it was indeed a stud and a nut rust frozen
> together. I haven't decided if I'll separate them and install them as a stud and nut again or if I'll just reinstall the frozen pieces as a bolt.
>
> Thanks everyone for your suggestions.
> --
> Ken Burton - N9KB
> 76 Palm Beach
> Hebron, Indiana
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
 
That frozen stud/nut bolt sounds like the perfect candidate for the acetone/transmission fluid penetrating brew I've rad so much about in this forum!
--
Wackster - 1976 23' Crestmont
Baltimore, Maryland
 
Yes it is but I'm not wanting to wait for it. So if I decide to do it I'll heat it with a torch, twist it off, and replace the nut with a new one.
Then reassemble with thread locker on the engine end and anti-seize on the nut end.

I am very familiar with acetone and PSF or ATF. I used it on this engine to free up rings rusted to the cylinder walls. It took 3 weeks to get all 8
of them loose. The engine now just purrs but still has a few problems. I start it without even setting the choke with the throttle pedal. I can
reach up to the steering wheel and turn the key while standing in the center isle and it fires off and runs. I wish my coach did this. I'm working
right now on a fuel pump leaking gas into the crank case and also a stuck open thermostat.

I am in the process of flushing the engine with 5w20 and Rislone. Currently it is holding 40 PSI at an idle even with the 2 quarts or so of gasoline
mixed in with the oil. Once I run it up to temperature that oil will be dumped and replaced with 5w30 and Rislone. Then we will do it all over
again. Depending on how that looks, we will next run Deluo / Delvac 15W40 for about 500 miles.

This is all subject to change depending on how the oil looks on each draining. The reason 5w20 and 5W30 is the current cold temperatures. We want
the cold oil to flow immediately and to flush quickly even when cold. Oil pressure is continuously monitored through all of this.

This 78 coach was parked unused for 19 years.
--
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
 
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