Trip Report II

Carl Stouffer

Well-known member
Jan 15, 2009
4,669
351
83
Tucson, Arizona 85718
In my previous trip report, I stated that the coach ran great the whole trip EXCEPT for some fuel starvation issues while climbing long steep grades
in extremely hot temperatures. Here is the back story and the reason I was a little surprised by this:

I have had "vapor lock" issues ever since the first drive with this coach back in 2008. I have done nearly everything conventional wisdom says should
fix this problem, from installing a heat dissipator under the carburetor, Making sure all my fuel filters are fresh, adding an electric pusher pump
by the gtas tanks, installing a Gary Rockwell aluminum intake manifold, without a heat crossover, mking sure my fan clutch is working, and even
insulating the bottom of my gas tanks.

Finally, after rebuilding the engine and transmission about 3-1/2 years ago, I relocated my fuel hoses to the OUTSIDE of the frame, added a canister
type filter, and installed a Carter 4070 electric pump, fed electricity by a relay, also outside the frame, and the problem was finally gone. For a
while anyway.

The last few hot weather Summer trips, it has begun to happen again, usually after several hours of driving in the heat.

I guess I will change out all the filters again, check the integrity of the tank bottom insulation, and probably do a tune-up and see what that does.

I suspect the quality of the gas may have something to do with the problem and I admit, I am guilty of buying the cheapest gas I can get. I have had
mixed results with gas from Flying-J and even Chevron in the past, so I'm not convinced that's it.

Do electric (or mechanical for that matter) fuel pumps tend to get weaker as they age? The Carter is only a little over three years old and has about
25,000 miles on it. I will replace it if the consensus is that they wear out and it might help. b ut it seems like it should not be the problem
either.

It's very frustrating to know you have the power to easily climb a long grade, but you find yourself limping along the shoulder at 20 mph until you
top the hill.

Any ideas or advice?
--
Carl Stouffer
'75 ex Palm Beach
Tucson, AZ.
Chuck Aulgur Reaction Arm Disc Brakes, Quadrabags, 3.70 LSD final drive, Lenzi knuckles/hubs, Dodge Truck 16" X 8" front wheels, Rear American Eagles,
Solar battery charging. GMCSJ and GMCMI member
 
My experience was i started noticing my switching to aux to engage my electric fuel pump one summer did not work as effective. It used to clear any
chug/hesitation instantly and there was time it kinda hesitant for longer.

One trip it seemed worse. So I did change filters. And it was back to normal.

So I would guess it is your filters.
--
Jon Roche
75 palm beach
EBL EFI, manny headers, Micro Level, rebuilt most of coach now.
St. Cloud, MN
http://lqqkatjon.blogspot.com/
 
Thanks Jon. That's definately my first step. Hopefully that will fix it.
--
Carl Stouffer
'75 ex Palm Beach
Tucson, AZ.
Chuck Aulgur Reaction Arm Disc Brakes, Quadrabags, 3.70 LSD final drive, Lenzi knuckles/hubs, Dodge Truck 16" X 8" front wheels, Rear American Eagles,
Solar battery charging. GMCSJ and GMCMI member
 
Electric pumps have a horrible reliability rating. There have been reports here of bad new out of box. Factory in tank are bad enough, but
aftermarket worse. I think if you run them dry ever at all they are then diminished in performance. I would test pressure coming from the pump and use
that info compared to rated specs to make my decision on whether to replace .
My last trip I had zero vapor lock in 90s F temps. My crossover is restricted not blocked, I had my air cleaner preheat connected and operational.
Never needed the Aux pump. I even had 30 mins of bumper to bumper stop and go. Only thing is I was only at 550’ elevation and I had just installed
my new proto exact OEM copy exhaust system. Stumped as usually I would get flat spot VL in the past. Gas was a mix of cheap brand and name brand but
assuming both summer blend at this point.
--
John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II
 
Gary,

I just happen to have that information written down:

K.T Refractories Ceramic Fiber Blanket

Temp: 2300 degrees F

Product Code MYTX1260

Density: 8#/cu-ft

I glued it to sheet metal and screwed that to the bottom of the frame.

Frankly, I'm not sure how much it helped. The gas tanks still boil on hot days.
--
Carl Stouffer
'75 ex Palm Beach
Tucson, AZ.
Chuck Aulgur Reaction Arm Disc Brakes, Quadrabags, 3.70 LSD final drive, Lenzi knuckles/hubs, Dodge Truck 16" X 8" front wheels, Rear American Eagles,
Solar battery charging. GMCSJ and GMCMI member
 
Oh, and it's about an inch thick Used for fireplaces.
--
Carl Stouffer
'75 ex Palm Beach
Tucson, AZ.
Chuck Aulgur Reaction Arm Disc Brakes, Quadrabags, 3.70 LSD final drive, Lenzi knuckles/hubs, Dodge Truck 16" X 8" front wheels, Rear American Eagles,
Solar battery charging. GMCSJ and GMCMI member
 
If your pump is a rotary vain like the carter, they will wear fast if your
not using a filter.
There is dirt in your tank as the air displaces the fuel as it goes out and
that air is not filtered.
I think I have over 40,000 miles on my carter pump with a replacable
cartridge filter.
Yes it runs full time.
Also the Tank Selector valve should be replaced if not done in last 7-8
yers as it has a rubber grommet that is know to creat restriction.
Always replace the filter at the carb. as it is a very small capacity and
fills up even if you fave a filter ahead of it. That filter will look clean
till you cut it ope and realize the fuel flow from inside to out.

> Oh, and it's about an inch thick Used for fireplaces.
> --
> Carl Stouffer
> '75 ex Palm Beach
> Tucson, AZ.
> Chuck Aulgur Reaction Arm Disc Brakes, Quadrabags, 3.70 LSD final drive,
> Lenzi knuckles/hubs, Dodge Truck 16" X 8" front wheels, Rear American
> Eagles,
> Solar battery charging. GMCSJ and GMCMI member
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>

--
Jim Kanomata ASE
Applied/GMC, Newark,CA
jimk
http://www.gmcrvparts.com
1-800-752-7502
 
I got all that stuff from you three years ago, Jim.
--
Carl Stouffer
'75 ex Palm Beach
Tucson, AZ.
Chuck Aulgur Reaction Arm Disc Brakes, Quadrabags, 3.70 LSD final drive, Lenzi knuckles/hubs, Dodge Truck 16" X 8" front wheels, Rear American Eagles,
Solar battery charging. GMCSJ and GMCMI member
 
Thanks!

Gary Coaster / Reno, NV
1977 GMC Eleganza ll
GMC RV Day Night Shade Sales
GMCShades
www.GMCMotorhomemarketplace.com/GMC_Shades/

>
> Oh, and it's about an inch thick Used for fireplaces.
> --
> Carl Stouffer
> '75 ex Palm Beach
> Tucson, AZ.
> Chuck Aulgur Reaction Arm Disc Brakes, Quadrabags, 3.70 LSD final drive, Lenzi knuckles/hubs, Dodge Truck 16" X 8" front wheels, Rear American Eagles,
> Solar battery charging. GMCSJ and GMCMI member
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
 
Thanks. Big help.

Gary Coaster / Reno, NV
1977 GMC Eleganza ll
GMC RV Day Night Shade Sales
GMCShades
www.GMCMotorhomemarketplace.com/GMC_Shades/

>
> Gary,
>
> I just happen to have that information written down:
>
> K.T Refractories Ceramic Fiber Blanket
>
> Temp: 2300 degrees F
>
> Product Code MYTX1260
>
> Density: 8#/cu-ft
>
> I glued it to sheet metal and screwed that to the bottom of the frame.
>
> Frankly, I'm not sure how much it helped. The gas tanks still boil on hot days.
> --
> Carl Stouffer
> '75 ex Palm Beach
> Tucson, AZ.
> Chuck Aulgur Reaction Arm Disc Brakes, Quadrabags, 3.70 LSD final drive, Lenzi knuckles/hubs, Dodge Truck 16" X 8" front wheels, Rear American Eagles,
> Solar battery charging. GMCSJ and GMCMI member
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
 
Also remember you are in one of the hottest parts of the country.

Gary Coaster / Reno, NV
1977 GMC Eleganza ll
GMC RV Day Night Shade Sales
GMCShades
www.GMCMotorhomemarketplace.com/GMC_Shades/

>
> Gary,
>
> I just happen to have that information written down:
>
> K.T Refractories Ceramic Fiber Blanket
>
> Temp: 2300 degrees F
>
> Product Code MYTX1260
>
> Density: 8#/cu-ft
>
> I glued it to sheet metal and screwed that to the bottom of the frame.
>
> Frankly, I'm not sure how much it helped. The gas tanks still boil on hot days.
> --
> Carl Stouffer
> '75 ex Palm Beach
> Tucson, AZ.
> Chuck Aulgur Reaction Arm Disc Brakes, Quadrabags, 3.70 LSD final drive, Lenzi knuckles/hubs, Dodge Truck 16" X 8" front wheels, Rear American Eagles,
> Solar battery charging. GMCSJ and GMCMI member
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
 
Sometimes insulating a fuel tank does a better job at keeping the heat in instead of keeping it out.

Emery Stora
emerystora

>
> Thanks!
>
> Gary Coaster / Reno, NV
> 1977 GMC Eleganza ll
> GMC RV Day Night Shade Sales
> GMCShades
> www.GMCMotorhomemarketplace.com/GMC_Shades/
>

>>
>> Oh, and it's about an inch thick Used for fireplaces.
>> --
>> Carl Stouffer
>> '75 ex Palm Beach
>> Tucson, AZ.
>> Chuck Aulgur Reaction Arm Disc Brakes, Quadrabags, 3.70 LSD final drive, Lenzi knuckles/hubs, Dodge Truck 16" X 8" front wheels, Rear American Eagles,
>> Solar battery charging. GMCSJ and GMCMI member
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
 
> Sometimes insulating a fuel tank does a better job at keeping the heat in instead of keeping it out.
>
> Emery Stora
> emerystora

Hmmm...Never thought of that.

It worked (or so they said) for a couple of other local guys, so I gave it a try. I don't think it did any harm, but It is something to check.
--
Carl Stouffer
'75 ex Palm Beach
Tucson, AZ.
Chuck Aulgur Reaction Arm Disc Brakes, Quadrabags, 3.70 LSD final drive, Lenzi knuckles/hubs, Dodge Truck 16" X 8" front wheels, Rear American Eagles,
Solar battery charging. GMCSJ and GMCMI member
 
On the tank, use the insulation as a reflector only by putting it on the
bottom snf by the exhaust that run down the side.
We stock that heat shield.

> > Sometimes insulating a fuel tank does a better job at keeping the heat
> in instead of keeping it out.
> >
> > Emery Stora
> > emerystora
>
> Hmmm...Never thought of that.
>
> It worked (or so they said) for a couple of other local guys, so I gave it
> a try. I don't think it did any harm, but It is something to check.
> --
> Carl Stouffer
> '75 ex Palm Beach
> Tucson, AZ.
> Chuck Aulgur Reaction Arm Disc Brakes, Quadrabags, 3.70 LSD final drive,
> Lenzi knuckles/hubs, Dodge Truck 16" X 8" front wheels, Rear American
> Eagles,
> Solar battery charging. GMCSJ and GMCMI member
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>

--
Jim Kanomata ASE
Applied/GMC, Newark,CA
jimk
http://www.gmcrvparts.com
1-800-752-7502
 
15 yrs ago on advise of others, I had a ceramic blanket that I glued to the bottom of the tank. Can't say that It made any difference, but what I did
notice is that exposure to rain and snow would wet it down and if I did not run in dry weather for a while after that exposure, it would not dry out.
Then some moisture would trap between the blanket and the tank and begin to rust the tank. When the blanket started to fall off in pieces, I finally
scraped that stuff off with a buddy knife and sanded it with a coarse sand paper. The thing I did notice is that the tank was clean as a whistle
wherever the contact cement was still present. It was a rubberized coating. An interesting observation, so I recoated the bottom of the tank with
contact cement and it seems to have kept the tank bottom from rusting further. Just my observation.
--
Larry
78 Royale w/500 Caddy
Menomonie, WI.
 
> Also remember you are in one of the hottest parts of the country.

Temps in BC supposed to hit 120f this weekend, 100f+ on Vancouver Island ...so pretty hot here too!

Larry
--
Larry - Victoria BC -

1977 Palm Beach 40,000 miles, PO said everything working but forgot the word NOT. New Atwood fridge, water heater & furnace. New SS exhaust system,
6000w Onan, Iota Converter, R134A A/C, New fuel lines & heat exchange hoses
 
I was having the same problem used all of the counter measures one could think of with some improvements. Only when I started using Non Ethanol gas
did my problems finally go away . I know it’s more expensive but it gives me piece of mind while driving . I use the App Pure Gas which shows you
every gas station that sells Non Ethanol gas stations in America you’ll find they have thousands out there . Just takes a little planning with your
gas stops . You might not need Non Ethanol in the winter cooler months but during the hot summer months I don’t leave home without it . You’ll
also find you will get better gas mileage using Non Ethanol gas as a bonus against the higher price.
 
Do fuel injection system suffer the same issue with ethanol and vapor issues?
--
Tom & Oki Katzenberger,
Kingsville, Maryland,
1977 23' Birchaven, 455 C.I.D.
 
I imagine with fuel injection because the fuel is under so much pressure vapor lock shouldn’t be a problem . I’m sure the fuel injection experts
here could weigh in this .