Tried Coil Springs with inside airbags ?

She charged me $12.00 for the first weight and $1.00 each for the second and third weight making a total of $14.00. I reckon those
weights are as accurate as you're going to get anywhere.

Regards,
Rob M.
USAussie - Downunder
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426


Rob, So what were the weights??
--
Gene Barrow
Lake Almanor, Ca.
1976 Palm Beach
 
I ordered the springs. I may get to the first stage Thanksgiving weekend.

Just for reference, I took the 4,000 pounds per side figure.

Then I measured from the top of the rear wheels to the body.

All the way down, the airbag is about 12 to 12.5 inches in total length. There it's three inches exactly to where the body starts. When it's all the way up, the airbag is out at 17.5 inches and the body is six inches higher than the top of the tire. It looks therefore like five inches of bag extension results in three inches of ride height. Three is .6 of five, so I am figuring that I need a load of .6 of 4000 lb. for the spring/inner bag combo or 2400 pounds - spring and inner airbag included.

I am hoping that when I put a load on the springs initially, they compress down to between 12 and 13.5 inches total length. We shall see.

 
Gene,

Log into the forum and do a search for "Got Double Trouble weighed at a CAT Scale"

Regards,
Rob M.
USAussie - Downunder
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426

-----Original Message-----
From: gene barrow

Rob, So what were the weights??
--
Gene
 
Francois,
I used the bottom spring perch from the Ford E350 to
mount the spring on one bogie arm. It fits into the pigtail
end of the spring and will bolt directly to the GMC bogie arm
with no modification.

For the other end I welded a steel plate to a section of the
upper spring perch, cut out of the Ford Van.

The weight on the spring is around 2800lbs on the drivers side
(26 footer).

Regards,
Bill
 
Interesting. I did go with new, Moog, heavy duty coils. So far 80 bucks.

I went to your photos and couldn't really see too much of the mounting end hardware. But I was considering a pivot system or an angle system - like your three degree shim.

With the extension measurements you have, I am leaning toward 3/4 inch aluminum spacers, which I might use on one or both ends. They are like 20 bucks each. Pretty sure I could modify those easily to take a bolt without interfering with the airbag install.

Thanks for sharing
 
Bill

did you tell him why you removed the springs
and
went to an air bag system ?

gene

>
>
> Here's a link to some spring photos:
>
> http://www.gggmc.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=8:airbag-replacement-springs&catid=3:running-gear
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>

--
Gene Fisher -- 74-23,77PB/ore/ca
“Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today --- give him a URL and
-------
http://bdub.net/gmcmotorhome.info/
Alternator Protection Cable
http://bdub.net/gmcmotorhome.info/APC.html
 
Leveling?Or did something else go wrong?Did it wear the tires uneven?I still have the
13and a 1/2"pipes in the old bag cups.Kinda reminds me of those guys in those little
cars that have them lowered and a fart pipe on em.Just bounce around and up and down over every single bump in the road.I like the way it drives on smooth pavement though.I called Michigan and they say bags are backordered but after the first of the year hundreds will be in stock.I am liking the spring option,at least for emergency which is where I am now,no real budget and no airbags.The local yard here wants $60 for the setup.
--
77 455 Elaganza II and 67 Animal, Built 500 Powered Eldo
 
All of the coil spring systems I've seen are coil spring only.

My intention is to incorporate an inner airbag, still using the on board compressors to adjust for height.

If it works well, that will be fine. If it doesn't, that will be OK too. You can't make an omelet without breaking a few eggs.
 
Just a note. I completed my first phase of this experiment, meaning I removed the airbag from one side, and jury rigged a way to keep the coil spring on there as I lowered the coach.

With the airbag off and fully extended, the distance between the bogey arms is 18 inches, and appears to be the farthest the shock absorbers will allow. With the coils compressed it is 12 inches, which also appears to be as far as the shock absorbers will allow.

With that, I would have said 'great' except for one thing; In the fully compressed position, when I lifted up hard on the coach, I could not budge it a fraction. This was not my expectation. In any coil spring car you can lift up on the body and you will lift it a little. This is because there is still spring play going down and the body is being held up in an equilibrium. Not so with these heavy duty springs. I used.

I am now noticing that the wheel well can accomodate two coil springs, and am considering that approach. Since the need is to have a total of 2500 lbs load, and the coil spring airbags have a limit of 500 lbs, I think with the coils I have to hit somewhere between 2200 and 2400 pounds of load. I also think the coils have to be right around 16 inches of length and the same spring.

Unfortunately, when I shop for coil springs, I don't often find the load rate and the length.

So it's an experiment still in the developmental stage.
 
Give Eaton Detroit Spring a call. These guys are the class of the street rod spring world and have a really good repatriation.

http://www.eatonsprings.com/
--
Kerry Pinkerton

North Alabama, near Huntsville,

77 Eleganza II, "The Lady", 403CI, also a 76 Eleganza being re-bodied as an Art Deco car hauler
 
I don't think the two springs per side concept is desirable. With the bogey arm made as it is, to avoid twisting forces, the connection would have to be a pivot or ball and socket system.

Also, it would require two coil spring airbags per side. This is too complicated, and more expensive than I envisioned.

If I can't do it with one coil spring per side, I think I have to go back to the airbag only. I will hopefully find out later today
if a coil spring of the length, diameter and load I need is available.

If so, I will have a few more posts on this. If not, there will be one more post saying that the experiment did not bear fruit.
 
Just a word - I have joined the Eaton Spring forum and have given a description of what I need, and asked for help.

Hopefully Eaton or someone there knows if the coil spring exists that will make this experiment possible.
 
Ok,When you say totally compressed,does that mean it went all the way down?

Its really lame that nobody can attach a small photo for any post,I am on dozens of
forums,mostly 8.2 litre Cad but this is very,very frustrating not being able to see
what people are saying or doing without going to another link and fighting to see
what you are talking about.Any way the webmaster can repair this trouble?
--
77 455 Elaganza II and 67 Animal, Built 500 Powered Eldo
 
Sure, this "trouble" can be cured by a lot of work and a lot of money to process and store the huge amount of data. If you have a lot of money, perhaps $10,000 or so, just send it to the webmaster and he might to solve your "problem" by buying more equipment and renting more space.

Remember Patrick is doing this as a free service and you are not paying a monthly or annual fee.

Emery Stora
77 Kingsley
Frederick, CO

>
>
> Ok,When you say totally compressed,does that mean it went all the way down?
>
> Its really lame that nobody can attach a small photo for any post,I am on dozens of
> forums,mostly 8.2 litre Cad but this is very,very frustrating not being able to see
> what people are saying or doing without going to another link and fighting to see
> what you are talking about.Any way the webmaster can repair this trouble?
> --
> 77 455 Elaganza II and 67 Animal, Built 500 Powered Eldo
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
 
To Gene,
I had springs on mine, but went to airbags.
The springs worked fine, but no leveling capability.
I put in "Silvertone" like airbags, the ride is softer.
The coach handled well with the spring setup, less sway than airbags,
probably because of the higher spring rate.

One thing about coil springs, they don't leak air.
I had several incidents where the 35 year old air lines popped
while driving 60 MPH. The coach dropped down to the bump
stops (inside the airbag). I was up near Donner pass one time.

Fortunately I had spare fittings and could splice the break
in the air hose. I could barely crawl under the coach when
parked with the right side wheels up on a sidewalk.

Regards,
Bill
 
Just trying to find out more on the spring concept.And it IS 2012 and its not that much for a site with 100 kb photos integrated in a post.I would donate as I do to the other forums.Its like $25 a year for members.It already allows files that big just not ones that
one takes just links.
--
77 455 Elaganza II and 67 Animal, Built 500 Powered Eldo
 
Here's my spring data from spending entirely too much time
working on my 1975 Glenbrook.

I measured the distance between the top rear tire and wheel well.
I then made a spread sheet to calculate the spring force as
the wheel goes from max height to lowest:

1975 Glenbrook 26 foot

3900LBS Coach Weight on 2 Tandem Wheels

Boggie Pin Air Bag Wheel Well Spring Force
to Ground Mount Dist Clearance
inches inches inches pounds
15.00 17.66 9.50 2977
14.75 17.33 9.25 2954
14.50 17.00 9.00 2931
14.25 16.67 8.75 2909
14.00 16.33 8.50 2887
13.75 15.99 8.25 2866
13.50 15.65 8.00 2845
13.25 15.31 7.75 2824
13.00 14.97 7.50 2803
12.75 14.63 7.25 2783
12.50 14.28 7.00 2763
12.25 13.94 6.75 2743
12.00 13.60 6.50 2724
11.75 13.25 6.25 2705
11.50 12.91 6.00 2686
11.25 12.56 5.75 2667
11.00 12.22 5.50 2649
10.75 11.87 5.25 2631
10.50 11.53 5.00 2613
10.25 11.19 4.75 2595
10.00 10.84 4.50 2578
9.75 10.50 4.25 2561
9.50 10.16 4.00 2544
9.25 9.83 3.75 2527
9.00 9.49 3.50 2510
8.75 9.16 3.25 2494
8.50 8.83 3.00 2478
8.25 8.50 2.75 2462
8.00 8.17 2.50 2447
7.75 7.84 2.25 2431
7.50 7.52 2.00 2416
 
The first column is the boggie pin to ground
the second column is the distance between airbag mounting points
the third column is wheel well clearance with normal tires.
The last column is the spring force...
 
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