Torsion Bar slip out??

B

billvv

Well-known member
Oct 5, 2015
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Anyone had a torsion bar slip out of the LCA? What causes it?
--
Bill Van Vlack
'76 Royale; Guemes Island, Washington; Twin bed, full (DS) side bath, Brazilian Redwood counter and settee tops,455, 6KW generator; new owner a/o mid
November 2015.
 
Has to be something fairly bad wrong for that to happen., like the pork
chop crossover bolts that attach it to the side frame rails loose or lost,
or the lower control arm torsion bar socket stripped out, or lower control
arm bushings totally shot or the bolts missing, etc.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Oregon

On Sat, Oct 12, 2019, 5:42 PM Bill Van Vlack via Gmclist <

> Anyone had a torsion bar slip out of the LCA? What causes it?
> --
> Bill Van Vlack
> '76 Royale; Guemes Island, Washington; Twin bed, full (DS) side bath,
> Brazilian Redwood counter and settee tops,455, 6KW generator; new owner a/o
> mid
> November 2015.
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
 
I have seen that twice. In both cases the Lower Control Arm bushings were badly worn and the bar was stuck in the lower control arm. Both of them
pulled out of the pork chop. I have also seen where the torsion bar spun or slipped in the LCA socket.

I believe Colonel ken had one slip out of the pork shop.

Ken B
--
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
 
As Ken B. just reported, I did have a torsion bar slip out of the pork chop
about 10 years ago. I, and friends, replaced the front frame clip.
Whoever among us who "checked" the installation of the right torsion bar
into the pork chop didn't do it properly -- as Ken said, the aft end of
the TB should have been flush with the aft side of the pork chop. Instead,
they were meshed by only 5/16"-3/8". On a bad bump in Texas, the front of
the coach dropped almost to the pavement and stayed there. I was lucky to
find a body shop a couple of miles down the road with room in their lot for
me to park. The owner helped me by providing a sheet of plywood to work on
and jack stands for safety. I jacked the front end up, unbolted the lower
ball joint, and lowered the A-arm. I had a little 3-ton jack from which I
removed the swivel pad on top of the plunger, leaving a round end to fit
into the pork
chop recess. I don't remember for sure, but I think I removed the dust
cap from the front of the A-arm socket to allow me to drive the TB back
into the pork chop. I never had any more trouble with it before installing
the 1-Ton front end 5-8 years later.

Ken H.

On Sat, Oct 12, 2019, 9:43 PM Ken Burton via Gmclist <

> I have seen that twice. In both cases the Lower Control Arm bushings were
> badly worn and the bar was stuck in the lower control arm. Both of them
> pulled out of the pork chop. I have also seen where the torsion bar spun
> or slipped in the LCA socket.
>
> I believe Colonel ken had one slip out of the pork shop.
>
> Ken B
> --
> Ken Burton - N9KB
> 76 Palm Beach
> Hebron, Indiana
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
 
Thanks, Ken.
I don't see how adjusting the torsion bar up 10 turns could have made the bar more likely to fall out, unless the act of adjusting pushed it further
into the control arm. In any event, the WSM specifies that the end of the torsion bar should be flush with the rear face of the porkchop.

Perhaps the inside of the torsion bar seat in the porkchop was damaged all along, and held when it was 10 turns looser but failed with the additional
twist of 10 turns plus some driving.
--
Bill Van Vlack
'76 Royale; Guemes Island, Washington; Twin bed, full (DS) side bath, Brazilian Redwood counter and settee tops,455, 6KW generator; new owner a/o mid
November 2015.
 
At about 230000 miles on my 77, the rubber isolator (on the driver's side) that locates the torsion bar anchor crossmember, wore to the point that the
crossmember worked itself aft enough for the torsion bar to come out of the porkchop. Driver's side came down with a big bang! I drove it home on
the bump stop about 90 miles at a slow speed. Harvested an isolator out of a coach Manny was parting out, and all was well. Those rubber isolators
are available now from Applied. I think the reason for the wear was that a hanger for a muffler had the crossmember in a side bind for about 100000
miles. Got the exhaust system hanging straight, and things still look good in that area. Next time you adjust ride height, it might be worth a look
at those isolators.

John S
--
John Shutzbaugh, Vacaville, CA, ncserv;
77 Eleganza, bought it new, can't blame PO; and
78 Buskirk stretch, "What were we thinking?"
 
This issue was based on a work that we did on a coach, When the coach came
in the complaint was about handling.
We checked it out first by checking air pressure, steering gear box
clocking and checking for excess slop of components.
The rear end was way off on one side, so we ded the Tricycle method to
level the rear then droppe the front and took measurements.
One side was approx. over one inch lower on side, while the other was close
to correct height.
My guys using the Tool to relieve the tension and made about 12 turns and
backing down the other side two turns.
We had the tension relieving tool on both side to save time.
Since we have a swivel pad , we had 3 guys bounce the front to help seek a
close height.
The customer took the coach and drove it .
At a parking lot the front made a bang noise and dropped down.
They brought it back and we say the the Pork chop had spun on the torsion
bar.
Looked like 1/4 " was what the torsion bar was in the pork chop.
In an ideal world, we should have checked the depth of torsion bar in the
pork chop.
We replaced the pork cop, n/c but charge one hour, as it took my tech took
3 hours as we had to reset the height.
So the issue is weather we should not have charged him for the work. I
contactee couple GMC shop and they felt it was not our fault .

On Sun, Oct 13, 2019 at 2:09 PM John Shutzbaugh via Gmclist <

> At about 230000 miles on my 77, the rubber isolator (on the driver's side)
> that locates the torsion bar anchor crossmember, wore to the point that the
> crossmember worked itself aft enough for the torsion bar to come out of
> the porkchop. Driver's side came down with a big bang! I drove it home on
> the bump stop about 90 miles at a slow speed. Harvested an isolator out
> of a coach Manny was parting out, and all was well. Those rubber isolators
> are available now from Applied. I think the reason for the wear was that
> a hanger for a muffler had the crossmember in a side bind for about 100000
> miles. Got the exhaust system hanging straight, and things still look
> good in that area. Next time you adjust ride height, it might be worth a
> look
> at those isolators.
>
> John S
> --
> John Shutzbaugh, Vacaville, CA, ncserv;
> 77 Eleganza, bought it new, can't blame PO; and
> 78 Buskirk stretch, "What were we thinking?"
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>

--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Newark,CA
jimk
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
 
What is the Tricycle method, Jim?

I have heard that you can support the rear with a point load support mid point between the bogies and then adjust the torsion bars with the front on
the ground to level the coach side-to-side. A variation on supporting both bogies at ride height when adjusting the torsion bars.
--
Bill Van Vlack
'76 Royale; Guemes Island, Washington; Twin bed, full (DS) side bath, Brazilian Redwood counter and settee tops,455, 6KW generator; new owner a/o mid
November 2015.
 
I learned from Jim Bounds.
Lift the front at the beam in front with a bottle jack and the go to the
rear and have both sides at the same height.
Believe it or not the rear will maintain the level when you drop the frot
on the front wheels.
Naturally you want to lock the air at the bags.

On Sun, Oct 13, 2019 at 4:23 PM Bill Van Vlack via Gmclist <

> What is the Tricycle method, Jim?
>
> I have heard that you can support the rear with a point load support mid
> point between the bogies and then adjust the torsion bars with the front on
> the ground to level the coach side-to-side. A variation on supporting both
> bogies at ride height when adjusting the torsion bars.
> --
> Bill Van Vlack
> '76 Royale; Guemes Island, Washington; Twin bed, full (DS) side bath,
> Brazilian Redwood counter and settee tops,455, 6KW generator; new owner a/o
> mid
> November 2015.
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>

--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Newark,CA
jimk
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
 
By the way, there is so much tension created by the torsion bar, it is
impossible to slide it during the adjustment. If they think so they are
idiots ....

> I learned from Jim Bounds.
> Lift the front at the beam in front with a bottle jack and the go to the
> rear and have both sides at the same height.
> Believe it or not the rear will maintain the level when you drop the frot
> on the front wheels.
> Naturally you want to lock the air at the bags.
>
> On Sun, Oct 13, 2019 at 4:23 PM Bill Van Vlack via Gmclist <

>
>> What is the Tricycle method, Jim?
>>
>> I have heard that you can support the rear with a point load support mid
>> point between the bogies and then adjust the torsion bars with the front on
>> the ground to level the coach side-to-side. A variation on supporting
>> both bogies at ride height when adjusting the torsion bars.
>> --
>> Bill Van Vlack
>> '76 Royale; Guemes Island, Washington; Twin bed, full (DS) side bath,
>> Brazilian Redwood counter and settee tops,455, 6KW generator; new owner a/o
>> mid
>> November 2015.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>>
>
>
> --
> Jim Kanomata
> Applied/GMC, Newark,CA
> jimk
> http://www.appliedgmc.com
> 1-800-752-7502
>

--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Newark,CA
jimk
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
 
Quote:
> By the way, there is so much tension created by the torsion bar, it is
> impossible to slide it during the adjustment

That makes sense to me - any additional twist would ADD friction. Any idea why it slipped out on the road? Bad porkchop to begin with, bad LCA
bushings, or????
--
Bill Van Vlack
'76 Royale; Guemes Island, Washington; Twin bed, full (DS) side bath, Brazilian Redwood counter and settee tops,455, 6KW generator; new owner a/o mid
November 2015.
 
Jim, I did not get the impression that he was directly blaming your shop but rather he was asking if the the adjustment affected the torsion bar
problem. I do not see how it could.

In my opinion one of two things caused it. Either someone previously installed it incorrectly (bar not inserted all the way in) or it slowly worked
it's way forward over the years and miles. Neither one would have been your shop's fault. I can not imagine why anyone would or should have checked
it over the years.

There is a hole in the back of the cross member where it could be checked.
--
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
 
Ken,
I appreciate your feedback .
Thank you.

On Sun, Oct 13, 2019 at 8:43 PM Ken Burton via Gmclist <

> Jim, I did not get the impression that he was directly blaming your shop
> but rather he was asking if the the adjustment affected the torsion bar
> problem. I do not see how it could.
>
> In my opinion one of two things caused it. Either someone previously
> installed it incorrectly (bar not inserted all the way in) or it slowly
> worked
> it's way forward over the years and miles. Neither one would have been
> your shop's fault. I can not imagine why anyone would or should have
> checked
> it over the years.
>
> There is a hole in the back of the cross member where it could be
> checked.
> --
> Ken Burton - N9KB
> 76 Palm Beach
> Hebron, Indiana
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Newark,CA
jimk
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502
 
I agrees with KenB.

jofarr. Soddy daisy tn

----- Original Message -----
From: Ken Burton via Gmclist
Reply-To:
To:
Cc: Ken Burton
Sent: 10/13/2019 11:43:03 PM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Torsion Bar slip out??
________________________________________________________________________________

Jim, I did not get the impression that he was directly blaming your shop but rather he was asking if the the adjustment affected the torsion bar
problem. I do not see how it could.

In my opinion one of two things caused it. Either someone previously installed it incorrectly (bar not inserted all the way in) or it slowly worked
it's way forward over the years and miles. Neither one would have been your shop's fault. I can not imagine why anyone would or should have checked
it over the years.

There is a hole in the back of the cross member where it could be checked.
--
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana

_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
 
So is this something we should all go out and check on our coaches? And how
would we specifically go about it?

Rich

On Mon, Oct 14, 2019 at 8:30 AM Jesse Farr via Gmclist <

> I agrees with KenB.
>
> jofarr. Soddy daisy tn
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Ken Burton via Gmclist
> Reply-To:
> To:
> Cc: Ken Burton
> Sent: 10/13/2019 11:43:03 PM
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Torsion Bar slip out??
>
> ________________________________________________________________________________
>
> Jim, I did not get the impression that he was directly blaming your shop
> but rather he was asking if the the adjustment affected the torsion bar
> problem. I do not see how it could.
>
> In my opinion one of two things caused it. Either someone previously
> installed it incorrectly (bar not inserted all the way in) or it slowly
> worked
> it's way forward over the years and miles. Neither one would have been
> your shop's fault. I can not imagine why anyone would or should have
> checked
> it over the years.
>
> There is a hole in the back of the cross member where it could be
> checked.
> --
> Ken Burton - N9KB
> 76 Palm Beach
> Hebron, Indiana
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
 
If installed correctly and there is not another mechanical problem that bar should not move and come out of the pork chop socket. It is a rare, but
possible problem. The bar end and pork chop DO NOT MOVE under normal operation. It should be fully inserted into the pork chop but you can not see
that end when installed. There is a small hole (maybe 3/8" - I am guessing from memory) on the back of the cross member aligned with the center of
the torsion bar. You can stick something through the hole and touch the end of the bar to determine how far in the torsion bar is. I did not look to
see if there is a specification on this but if the two bars are different depths then I would investigate further. I do not ever remember checking
mine other than when I reassembled it after replacing LCA bushings 10 or 15 years ago.
--
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
 
Look through the inspection hole on the crossmember backside right behind
the pork chop. Use a flashlight. The end of the bar should be close but not
touching the crossmember backside. It will be obvious that it is fully
seated in the pork chop.

Rick “precision not necessary” Denney

On Mon, Oct 14, 2019 at 9:00 AM Rich Kinas via Gmclist <

> So is this something we should all go out and check on our coaches? And how
> would we specifically go about it?
>
> Rich
>
> On Mon, Oct 14, 2019 at 8:30 AM Jesse Farr via Gmclist <

>
> > I agrees with KenB.
> >
> > jofarr. Soddy daisy tn
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Ken Burton via Gmclist
> > Reply-To:
> > To:
> > Cc: Ken Burton
> > Sent: 10/13/2019 11:43:03 PM
> > Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Torsion Bar slip out??
> >
> >
> ________________________________________________________________________________
> >
> > Jim, I did not get the impression that he was directly blaming your shop
> > but rather he was asking if the the adjustment affected the torsion bar
> > problem. I do not see how it could.
> >
> > In my opinion one of two things caused it. Either someone previously
> > installed it incorrectly (bar not inserted all the way in) or it slowly
> > worked
> > it's way forward over the years and miles. Neither one would have been
> > your shop's fault. I can not imagine why anyone would or should have
> > checked
> > it over the years.
> >
> > There is a hole in the back of the cross member where it could be
> > checked.
> > --
> > Ken Burton - N9KB
> > 76 Palm Beach
> > Hebron, Indiana
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > GMCnet mailing list
> > Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> > http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > GMCnet mailing list
> > Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> > http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
> >
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
--
'73 X-Glacier 230 "Jaws"
Northern Virginia
Offlist email: rick at rickdenney dot com
 
I certainly did not mean for my crossmember story to be a condemnation of the work done at Applied. I meant it as an illustration of the oddball, off
the wall things that can happen in a high mileage, high age vehicle.

John S.
--
John Shutzbaugh, Vacaville, CA, ncserv;
77 Eleganza, bought it new, can't blame PO; and
78 Buskirk stretch, "What were we thinking?"
 
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