Toad selection thoughts and questions

D

dave silva

New member
Oct 2, 2009
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If things go right i may find myself needing a Toad this SPring.

So I'm looking at curb weight and capabilities of a lot of different vehicles.

If the car is a dedicated toad then the budget is under $3K If the TOAD fits into the family fleet as a daily driver then it could be more.

The big driver is weight- the sub 3000 lb cars out there are not something i want to drive every day (tracker, Sidekick, Honda Fit)

But something a bit more substantial like a Nissan Pathfinder or Exterra get up around 4000 lb.

I'd like some off road capability, maybe more than a subaru Outback.

So is there a big difference in towing 3000 lb (tracker) versus 4200 lb (Pathfinder) on mostly flat east coast roads?

And what other considerations have people made integrating the toad in to the family fleet?

--
Dave & Ellen Silva

1972 Revcon Olds 455, toro drive train. All Stock
 
Dave, Over the years I have towed a GEO Tracker early 1990=E2=80=9Ds with=
the cloth top ( called it the roller skate ) 4WD, Auto Trans, 4cyl and wei=
ghted under 2000# never knew it was back there. Next car was a Chevy Track=
er, 4DR, 4WD, AT, V6 and weighted about 2500 Next was a 2009 Honda FIT, =
with AT and loaded with extras and was again about 2500 Started to get a=
little bigger with a 2011 Honda CR-V with AT. All these cars were or are =
flat towable and the CR-V they changed the transmission in 2014 to a CVT tr=
ansmission as did most car makers. The factory doesn=E2=80=99t recommend f=
lat towing with CVT, but the manual trans units are ok. I have heard of som=
e that do flat tow at CVT tranny vehicle, but you put your warranty at risk=
if you have one and the high cost of repair if you don=E2=80=99t. Those w=
ere the last of the flat towable cars that we had. Had a 2019 Ford Escape =
for a short period of time last fall and early spring, but that is another =
story. Presently have a 2020 Ford Edge, now both the Escape and Edge are N=
OT flat towable and we now use a dolly and we purchased them as FWD ONLY. =
It has gotten to a very small list of cars with auto trans that are availab=
le. Why AT over Man, your wife is NOT going to drive a manual trans vehicl=
e. She may say yes, yes, but the real feeling is NO, NO, NO!!!! In the FM=
CA Towing Guide there used to be a great number of vehicles that were flat =
towable with a AT. In the latest guide there are maybe 5 that are AT and h=
ave a good weight. If I had my choice I would look for a 2013 or earlier H=
onda FIT, with AT, Loved the FIT, with the paddle shifter and peppy motor =
it was a rice rocket. The sport suspension was a little harsh for the wife,=
hence the CR-V. It is a tough world to find just the right vehicle in=
the best condition, be a good buyer. Regards, J.R. Wright GMC =
Great Laker MHC GMCGL Tech Editor GMC Eastern States Charter Member G=
MCMI 78 GMC Buskirk 29.5=E2=80=99 Stretch 75 GMC Avion (Under Reconstru=
ction) Michigan > On Sep 6, 2020, at 9:42 AM, dave silva via Gmcl=
ist wrote: > > If things go right i may find=
myself needing a Toad this SPring. > > So I'm looking at curb weight=
and capabilities of a lot of different vehicles. > > If the car is a=
dedicated toad then the budget is under $3K If the TOAD fits into the fami=
ly fleet as a daily driver then it could be more. > > The big driver =
is weight- the sub 3000 lb cars out there are not something i want to drive=
every day (tracker, Sidekick, Honda Fit) > > But something a bit mor=
e substantial like a Nissan Pathfinder or Exterra get up around 4000 lb. =
> > I'd like some off road capability, maybe more than a subaru Outba=
ck. > > > So is there a big difference in towing 3000 lb (tracker)=
versus 4200 lb (Pathfinder) on mostly flat east coast roads? > > =
> And what other considerations have people made integrating the toad in to=
the family fleet? > > > > > > > -- > Dave & Ellen S=
ilva > > 1972 Revcon Olds 455, toro drive train. All Stock > > =
> > _______________________________________________ > GMCnet mailin=
g list > Unsubscribe or Change List Options: > http://list.gmcnet.org/m=
ailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
 
> Why AT over Man, your wife is NOT going to drive a manual trans vehicle. She may say yes, yes, but the real feeling is NO, NO, NO!!!!

Ohhh, I can't wait to share that comment with her (she's out at the moment)

Early in our marriage (20 years) i taught her to drive stick and she loved a few stick cars (VW cabrio, old corrolla named Daisy)

Now that we are older people (110 years between us) with younger children (9 & 12) she hates that there are no good cars with manual trans.

Having one as a toad would be great.

But all your other comments were very helpful ;)

--
Dave & Ellen Silva

1972 Revcon Olds 455, toro drive train. All Stock
 
Dave,
Just as a comment, most of the GMC woman are beyond stick shifting days (50+) . All the GMCers I know the auto is the way to go. But again the choice is yours! Choose Wisely.

JR Wright

>

>> Why AT over Man, your wife is NOT going to drive a manual trans vehicle. She may say yes, yes, but the real feeling is NO, NO, NO!!!!
>
> Ohhh, I can't wait to share that comment with her (she's out at the moment)
>
> Early in our marriage (20 years) i taught her to drive stick and she loved a few stick cars (VW cabrio, old corrolla named Daisy)
>
> Now that we are older people (110 years between us) with younger children (9 & 12) she hates that there are no good cars with manual trans.
>
> Having one as a toad would be great.
>
> But all your other comments were very helpful ;)
>
>
>
>
> --
> Dave & Ellen Silva
>
> 1972 Revcon Olds 455, toro drive train. All Stock
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
 
> Ohhh, I can't wait to share that comment with her (she's out at the moment)
> Early in our marriage (20 years) i taught her to drive stick and she loved a few stick cars (VW cabrio, old corrolla named Daisy)
> Now that we are older people (110 years between us) with younger children (9 & 12) she hates that there are no good cars with manual trans.
> Having one as a toad would be great.
> But all your other comments were very helpful ;)

Dave,

I am going to tell Mary all about this too. About 50 years ago, she had just gotten to Ann Arbor when the transmission in her 65 dart went out. I
told her that I couldn't fix it but I could if it was a manual. Then, I had to teach her to drive my Opel GT because were were taking it to Albany to
get married. Except for the coach and rental cars, she hasn't drive and automatic since. She even asked if we could put a manual in the coach once.
I have never had to replace a clutch in a car that she drove either. My son did kill one in the her-x minivan, but that is a long story by itself.

Oh, and until recently (a shoulder replacement) she has driven the coach in daylight for a long time now.

Matt
--
Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
 
We love our 2016 Honda HRV with manual transmission. It is also a daily
driver. Wieghs in at about 2500.

On Sun, Sep 6, 2020, 10:12 AM dave silva via Gmclist <

> > Why AT over Man, your wife is NOT going to drive a manual trans
> vehicle. She may say yes, yes, but the real feeling is NO, NO, NO!!!!
>
> Ohhh, I can't wait to share that comment with her (she's out at the
> moment)
>
> Early in our marriage (20 years) i taught her to drive stick and she loved
> a few stick cars (VW cabrio, old corrolla named Daisy)
>
> Now that we are older people (110 years between us) with younger children
> (9 & 12) she hates that there are no good cars with manual trans.
>
> Having one as a toad would be great.
>
> But all your other comments were very helpful ;)
>
>
>
>
> --
> Dave & Ellen Silva
>
> 1972 Revcon Olds 455, toro drive train. All Stock
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
 
I'm looking at 2nd generation Jeep Cherokees- 3000 lb, manual transfer case and some decent offroad capability,
--
Dave & Ellen Silva

1972 Revcon Olds 455, toro drive train. All Stock
 
The new Ford Bronco might fill the bill. They will have an optional 7 speed
manual transmission with a granny gear for off road stupid stuff. No idea
of cost or weight though.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Oregon

On Sun, Sep 6, 2020, 7:36 PM dave silva via Gmclist
wrote:

> I'm looking at 2nd generation Jeep Cherokees- 3000 lb, manual transfer
> case and some decent offroad capability,
> --
> Dave & Ellen Silva
>
> 1972 Revcon Olds 455, toro drive train. All Stock
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
 
> The new Ford Bronco might fill the bill. They will have an optional 7 speed
> manual transmission with a granny gear for off road stupid stuff. No idea
> of cost or weight though.\

If the new Bronco lives up to the hype i think it may be a very popular toad at 3200 lb. But not for me, at $30k is closer to what i pay for house

--
Dave & Ellen Silva

1972 Revcon Olds 455, toro drive train. All Stock
 
I have towed my 2004 scion XB manual tranny a few times. Very light, stable, lots of room. The first few years don't have a commercially available tow
bar, so if you go looking, check what kits are out there first. I already had the 2004 so I made it work.

And to Matt...I too have Opel GT's in my vehicle history. Bought first one on side of road for $600 and at 17 years old had never driven a car with
non-functioning shocks! First ride home thought I was going to float into the ditch...good times.

--
1975 Glenbrook, 1978 Royale rear bath
Raleigh, NC
 
Dave
If your set on a pathfinder the first generation pathfinder is a two door, lighter but much tougher pathfinder. However they are becoming very rare.
If you find one in good shape they are usually under $4k and relativity inexpensive to repair. I wish I had kept mine. However I was pleasantly
surprised how much I like my 1989 sidekick. It’s light but it’s a tank and I use it on my property in place of my Polaris utv when it’s cold
and rainy. It was a blast traveling through the Montana/Wyoming National parks as it sipped gas, squeezed into crowded “overlooks”. It’s also
great for zipping around town with the top down. It’s very easy to tow. We bought it with the GMC and my wife was just as excited about it as she
was the GMC. She loved driving it and it’s a 5 speed. One negative is it’s not great on the interstate.
--
M Beam
75’ Avion
TBI EBL , 3.70 LSD and other stuff
Zuki Sidekick,
Dozier Al
 
I'm still wondering about weight.

There is nothing in the sub-3000 lb range that i want as a daily driver, except maybe a Mini Cooper.

But there are LOTS of things in the 3500 lb range.

So i can find all sorts of small but highly functional SUVs i would enjoy having, Pathfinder, 4runner, etc But am i gonna hate that extra 700 lb ?

Would i be happier with a dedicated TOAD in the Subaru FOrrester family?



--
Dave & Ellen Silva

1972 Revcon Olds 455, toro drive train. All Stock
 
Dave,

I've been towing Honda CRV's since 1999. That '99 weighted about 3280#
with full fuel and we probably had it loaded with another 250# of "junque"
for most trips. It was AWD, but we never used that feature. It was a
great toad, never needed repair and hardly knew it was behind the
X-Birchaven -- even before I installed the Cad500..

In about 2016 I decided I'd better replace it while there was still a
chance, so I bought a 2014 CRV with 18,000 miles -- the last year before
they screwed up and installed the "constant velocity transmission". A
friend bought the '99 and is still enjoying it. The '14 is probably a
couple of hundred pounds heavier, but it's still no problem to tow. It's
only FWD, but since we don't go off road, no problem. It's my daily driver
and averages over 25 mpg in city driving ~30 on the road.

You may want to check them out.

Ken H.

On Thu, Sep 10, 2020 at 8:42 PM dave silva via Gmclist <

> I'm still wondering about weight.
>
> There is nothing in the sub-3000 lb range that i want as a daily driver,
> except maybe a Mini Cooper.
>
> But there are LOTS of things in the 3500 lb range.
>
> So i can find all sorts of small but highly functional SUVs i would enjoy
> having, Pathfinder, 4runner, etc But am i gonna hate that extra 700 lb ?
>
> Would i be happier with a dedicated TOAD in the Subaru FOrrester family?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> Dave & Ellen Silva
>
> 1972 Revcon Olds 455, toro drive train. All Stock
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
 
Dave,
Unless something has changed, Subaru Foresters can't be towed 4 down or
even 2 down. Full time AWD.

Russ

On Thu, Sep 10, 2020, 8:42 PM dave silva via Gmclist <

> I'm still wondering about weight.
>
> There is nothing in the sub-3000 lb range that i want as a daily driver,
> except maybe a Mini Cooper.
>
> But there are LOTS of things in the 3500 lb range.
>
> So i can find all sorts of small but highly functional SUVs i would enjoy
> having, Pathfinder, 4runner, etc But am i gonna hate that extra 700 lb ?
>
> Would i be happier with a dedicated TOAD in the Subaru FOrrester family?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> Dave & Ellen Silva
>
> 1972 Revcon Olds 455, toro drive train. All Stock
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
 
What is the weight of a Kia Soul? Anything with an auto tranny
MUST be towed with a tow dolly, but I love our Soul. Johnny
Bridges has a Soul basic with stick tranny and I believe it can
be towed four down. He is very happy with it as a towd and also
run around vehicle the last I heard from him about it!

D C "Mac" Macdonald
Amateur Radio K2GKK
Since 30 November '53
USAF and FAA, Retired
Member GMCMI & Classics
Oklahoma City, OK
"The Money Pit"
TZE166V101966
'76 ex-Palm Beach
k2gkk + hotmail dot com

________________________________
From: Gmclist on behalf of Russell Mehlenbacher via Gmclist
Sent: Thursday, September 10, 2020 20:55
To: gmclist
Cc: Russell Mehlenbacher
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Toad selection thoughts and questions

Dave,
Unless something has changed, Subaru Foresters can't be towed 4 down or
even 2 down. Full time AWD.

Russ

On Thu, Sep 10, 2020, 8:42 PM dave silva via Gmclist <

> I'm still wondering about weight.
>
> There is nothing in the sub-3000 lb range that i want as a daily driver,
> except maybe a Mini Cooper.
>
> But there are LOTS of things in the 3500 lb range.
>
> So i can find all sorts of small but highly functional SUVs i would enjoy
> having, Pathfinder, 4runner, etc But am i gonna hate that extra 700 lb ?
>
> Would i be happier with a dedicated TOAD in the Subaru FOrrester family?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> Dave & Ellen Silva
>
> 1972 Revcon Olds 455, toro drive train. All Stock
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
 
Please keep in mind that the greatest stress is applied at the
transmission, so change the fluid frequently and also suggest a lower gear
ratio.
Also keep in mind the Aux brake for the Tod.
They do not enforce it till you're involved in an accident.

On Thu, Sep 10, 2020 at 7:04 PM D C _Mac_ Macdonald via Gmclist <

> What is the weight of a Kia Soul? Anything with an auto tranny
> MUST be towed with a tow dolly, but I love our Soul. Johnny
> Bridges has a Soul basic with stick tranny and I believe it can
> be towed four down. He is very happy with it as a towd and also
> run around vehicle the last I heard from him about it!
>
> D C "Mac" Macdonald
> Amateur Radio K2GKK
> Since 30 November '53
> USAF and FAA, Retired
> Member GMCMI & Classics
> Oklahoma City, OK
> "The Money Pit"
> TZE166V101966
> '76 ex-Palm Beach
> k2gkk + hotmail dot com
>
> ________________________________
> From: Gmclist on behalf of Russell
> Mehlenbacher via Gmclist
> Sent: Thursday, September 10, 2020 20:55
> To: gmclist
> Cc: Russell Mehlenbacher
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Toad selection thoughts and questions
>
> Dave,
> Unless something has changed, Subaru Foresters can't be towed 4 down or
> even 2 down. Full time AWD.
>
> Russ
>
> On Thu, Sep 10, 2020, 8:42 PM dave silva via Gmclist <

>
> > I'm still wondering about weight.
> >
> > There is nothing in the sub-3000 lb range that i want as a daily driver,
> > except maybe a Mini Cooper.
> >
> > But there are LOTS of things in the 3500 lb range.
> >
> > So i can find all sorts of small but highly functional SUVs i would enjoy
> > having, Pathfinder, 4runner, etc But am i gonna hate that extra 700 lb ?
> >
> > Would i be happier with a dedicated TOAD in the Subaru FOrrester family?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Dave & Ellen Silva
> >
> > 1972 Revcon Olds 455, toro drive train. All Stock
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > GMCnet mailing list
> > Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> > http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
> >
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>

--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Newark,CA
jimk
http://www.gmcrvparts.com
1-800-752-7502
 
I live in MN, and it is mostly flat. I am usually towing something, and I also towed my honda CRV to oregon and almost back.

It is my opinion you want as light as possible, and I would personally not want to go much over 2500 pounds. I am towing 3500 pounds with a 26'
coach, 455 engine and 3.21 gears with EFI. It does it, but it really dampens the driving adventure.

You might find your 23 coach will handle another 1000 pounds better then a 26' coach. I do not have experience with that.

I have towed many different weights behind my GMC, and it seems that at about the 2500 pound up, the driving experience tends to go down for every
pound above that.

also keep in mind weight of the car. short of putting it on a scale you never really know....

I tow a 99 honda CRV. It is my normal daily driver, and I use it in the winter. AT, and AWD. If you look up the "curb weight" it pops up 3164
pounds. you put it on the scale, and it is 3500 pounds without passengers or junk in the trunk. behind the GMC, with junk in the back(bbq, chairs
nothing too crazy), it scales out 3500 pounds, if I am sitting in it with wife kids and such, we are pushing almost 4000.(you obviously hopefully
don't tow with wife and kids in car). But most people use the towd for storage, so there is extra weight there as well.


my GMC has 3.21 gears, and in my opinion, 3500 towd is do-able, but you really should avoid that weight if you can. I like my AC, AT and AWD, so I
put up with the 3500 pounds. If I was buying just a towd for the gmc, and not a daily drive I have to run around in the winter with, I would find
something 1000 lighter. I actually do have a VW thing that will be a towd, but that will be when the wife is not with, as the heater is a bit
sketchy, and the only A/C it has is a top down. not to mention I am not sure how much of a freeway flyer that one might be.

as far as that cherokee goes, you better put that on a scale. also if you plan on other accessories on the jeep, such as bumpers, winch, bigger
tires... weight adds up.

I have owned many jeeps including cherokee, and I have consitered them as a possible towd, but really think they are too heavy. Plus with the
driveline and or off road tires, there is some rolling resistance drag there that a person does not realize makes a different hauling.

--
Jon Roche
75 palm beach
EBL EFI, manny headers, Micro Level, rebuilt most of coach now.
St. Cloud, MN
http://lqqkatjon.blogspot.com/
 
Another option is the Chev Sonic. A few in our club tow them. Mine is a 2015 so can't comment on today's version. It is about 2700 lbs. There are two
automatics. The one with the 1.8 liter engine can be towed all wheels down as well as the manual transmission. It tracks well. It is also my daily
driver and becomes a little truck with the back seat down. I use a RVI brake system on it. It is wireless to the coach monitor so the install is easy.

--
Al Hamilton,
76 Eleganza II,
Heart of the 1000 Islands, Ontario
 
We tow one of two that we have. Either a 96 4WD tracker at 2400 lbs or a 91 Honda Civic SI at 2260lbs. Prefer the Honda as it is a nice driver. It
is a hatchback so can carry lots of stuff. Thought we only carry our folding chairs and other stuff that would be out at a camping spot. Using a Brake
Buddy, coach stops faster towing than it does solo. For us, it has been the perfect towd. JWID.
--
Larry
78 Royale w/500 Caddy
Menomonie, WI.
 
I bought a new Soul with an auto for Paula, and gave the 2012 to our daughter. Bought it with 33K on it and paid a bt of a premium (14k driveout)
because I knew its history and the previous owner. It showed ~~ 168K when we took it to Athens for her, still cooking along. Coolant, tires, brake
pads, one O2 sensor. I got my money out of it.

For anyone contemplating the Soul, 2011 to about 2015 or 6, I have the Demco baseplate and matching economy tow bar, $250 for both. The caveat is,
you have to come get them, and in addition you have to help me take the baseplate off the car. No magic, just time consuming.

--johnny
--
Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
 
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