Tire change out. Correct rotation sequence....

scott nutter1

New member
Jan 5, 2015
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I have developed flat spots on my furthest aft tires. I am going to buy 2 new tires to rotate in. Where do I want the newest tires to be mounted? I
thought I read here somewhere that you would want the best tires to be on the bogies. Any suggestions?
Thanks, Scott.
--
Scott Nutter
1978 Royale Center Kitchen, Patterson 455, switch pitch tranny, 3.21 final drive, Quad bags, tankless water heater, everything Lenzi. Alex Ferrera
installed MSD Atomic EFI
Houston, Texas
 
I have always put new tires on the front wheels

Emery Stora

>
> I have developed flat spots on my furthest aft tires. I am going to buy 2 new tires to rotate in. Where do I want the newest tires to be mounted? I
> thought I read here somewhere that you would want the best tires to be on the bogies. Any suggestions?
> Thanks, Scott.
> --
> Scott Nutter
> 1978 Royale Center Kitchen, Patterson 455, switch pitch tranny, 3.21 final drive, Quad bags, tankless water heater, everything Lenzi. Alex Ferrera
> installed MSD Atomic EFI
> Houston, Texas
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
 
I'm with Emery, on the front and ever thing moves back a notch.

--johnny

--
Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
 
You may find your tire dealer insists on installing the new tires on the rear. In the automotive world they have a rule of "Best to the back" to
prevent rear end losing traction and sliding.
I had a tire place insisting on new installing new tires on the rear. I finally convinced them that I would hardly be speeding in a motorhome and had
more issues with front end traction than rear end break-away on a curve. They installed the tires on the front.

--
Bruce Hislop
ON Canada
77PB, 455 Dick P. rebuilt, DynamicEFI EBL EFI & ESC.1 ton front end
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showphoto.php?photo=29001
My Staff says I never listen to them, or something like that
 
That's fairly simple, RF. 'Put them where I say or skip the sale'

--johnny
--
Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
 
This is a repost of something I wrote last December. Might be worth repeating.

I have put the coach on a 6 yr replacement plan. 2 tires every two years. Seems the front tires wear the fastest. Then it seems the mid axle wears
next. and the rear axle is just along for the ride and wear the least. When the front wear to a point where traction may be compromised or reach 4 yrs
old, I move them to mid axle. Mid axle rims get new tires and moved to the rear. Rear tires get moved to the front. Do this every two years, so I'm
only laying out money for two at a time every two years. We also put on about 10 - 14 k miles every year. So by the time replace two 6yr old tires,
they have between 30-42K miles on them. They have now timed out with as many miles as I can get out of them and still safely run them. This way,
oldest tires are 6yrs, followed by 4 yrs and 2yrs. I've actually got one wheel...the passenger side mid axle that is slightly toed in and wears faster
than all of the others. But it has become not worth the effort to correct the slight toe problem on that wheel, because the tire there times out
before it is worn below the wear bars. This all works for me running Michelin Defender LTX-MS tires. If the coach will stand still for more than a
couple of weeks, I tire cover them as I do not have inside storage.

The hard part is getting into that replacement management scheme. You may have to replace a set a year or two earlier or later to get the rotation
right. I was able to do it when I bought an off-brand set of tires that tread separated. Two of them at two years use and another two at 4 years. Just
worked out for me. The problem with off-brand tires is that they were regionally available, so when they went bad while traveling south, I was not
able to get to a shop that carried the brand to make the adjustment. The one time I could get to a shop that carried them, it was far enough out of
the way that it would have cost me more in gas to get there than the cost of the replacement tire. JMHO, but now I use only Michelin LTXMS, and have
never had a problem with them. To me, the peace of mind is worth the extra money for the Brand Name.

I also take the best of the two 6 yr old tires and move it to the spare. Requires having same size rim on spare as the other 6 on the coach. That way
the spare is never more than 8 yrs old.

FWIW, some time when you have time, take your GMCMH to a empty part of a parking lot. Stop somewhere out of the way. Then, turning the steering wheel,
crank the wheel all of the way either left or right. Put coach in gear and go forward 1/4 to 1/2 of a circle. Stop, put it in park and get out and
look at the 4 rear wheel/tires. It is shocking how much those bogie arms and tires bend/squirm to accommodate a turn. / | \ Front tires don't react
nearly as extreme as rears. So, every time you turn a corner, you are really working those sidewalls. IMO, with that kind of squirm, this is why most
blow-outs occur on the rear as those sidewalls are consistantly being bent/streatched to their limits. So, I think we need to be running a well
made/engineered tire that is capable of handling this abuse. When I park my coach for the night or for that matter, any period of time, if I had just
turned the wheel a little, I will point the wheels straight forward, then pull forward and back 2-3 times just to take the bend/squirm out of the
tires. Just what I do. (JWID)

Hope this helps. :p
--
Larry
78 Royale w/500 Caddy
Menomonie, WI.
 
Is there an advantage to doing as you suggested rather than just replace
the fronts and move everything back a position?

On Sat, Oct 17, 2020 at 9:12 AM Larry via Gmclist
wrote:

> This is a repost of something I wrote last December. Might be worth
> repeating.
>
> I have put the coach on a 6 yr replacement plan. 2 tires every two years.
> Seems the front tires wear the fastest. Then it seems the mid axle wears
> next. and the rear axle is just along for the ride and wear the least.
> When the front wear to a point where traction may be compromised or reach 4
> yrs
> old, I move them to mid axle. Mid axle rims get new tires and moved to the
> rear. Rear tires get moved to the front. Do this every two years, so I'm
> only laying out money for two at a time every two years. We also put on
> about 10 - 14 k miles every year. So by the time replace two 6yr old tires,
> they have between 30-42K miles on them. They have now timed out with as
> many miles as I can get out of them and still safely run them. This way,
> oldest tires are 6yrs, followed by 4 yrs and 2yrs. I've actually got one
> wheel...the passenger side mid axle that is slightly toed in and wears
> faster
> than all of the others. But it has become not worth the effort to correct
> the slight toe problem on that wheel, because the tire there times out
> before it is worn below the wear bars. This all works for me running
> Michelin Defender LTX-MS tires. If the coach will stand still for more than
> a
> couple of weeks, I tire cover them as I do not have inside storage.
>
> The hard part is getting into that replacement management scheme. You may
> have to replace a set a year or two earlier or later to get the rotation
> right. I was able to do it when I bought an off-brand set of tires that
> tread separated. Two of them at two years use and another two at 4 years.
> Just
> worked out for me. The problem with off-brand tires is that they were
> regionally available, so when they went bad while traveling south, I was not
> able to get to a shop that carried the brand to make the adjustment. The
> one time I could get to a shop that carried them, it was far enough out of
> the way that it would have cost me more in gas to get there than the cost
> of the replacement tire. JMHO, but now I use only Michelin LTXMS, and have
> never had a problem with them. To me, the peace of mind is worth the extra
> money for the Brand Name.
>
> I also take the best of the two 6 yr old tires and move it to the spare.
> Requires having same size rim on spare as the other 6 on the coach. That way
> the spare is never more than 8 yrs old.
>
> FWIW, some time when you have time, take your GMCMH to a empty part of a
> parking lot. Stop somewhere out of the way. Then, turning the steering
> wheel,
> crank the wheel all of the way either left or right. Put coach in gear and
> go forward 1/4 to 1/2 of a circle. Stop, put it in park and get out and
> look at the 4 rear wheel/tires. It is shocking how much those bogie arms
> and tires bend/squirm to accommodate a turn. / | \ Front tires don't
> react
> nearly as extreme as rears. So, every time you turn a corner, you are
> really working those sidewalls. IMO, with that kind of squirm, this is why
> most
> blow-outs occur on the rear as those sidewalls are consistantly being
> bent/streatched to their limits. So, I think we need to be running a well
> made/engineered tire that is capable of handling this abuse. When I park
> my coach for the night or for that matter, any period of time, if I had just
> turned the wheel a little, I will point the wheels straight forward, then
> pull forward and back 2-3 times just to take the bend/squirm out of the
> tires. Just what I do. (JWID)
>
> Hope this helps. :p
> --
> Larry
> 78 Royale w/500 Caddy
> Menomonie, WI.
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>

--

*John Phillips*
 
John
I do it your way and it was worked well for me for the last 39 years that I have owned the GMC.

Emery Stora

>
> Is there an advantage to doing as you suggested rather than just replace
> the fronts and move everything back a position?
>
> On Sat, Oct 17, 2020 at 9:12 AM Larry via Gmclist

>
>> This is a repost of something I wrote last December. Might be worth
>> repeating.
>>
>> I have put the coach on a 6 yr replacement plan. 2 tires every two years.
>> Seems the front tires wear the fastest. Then it seems the mid axle wears
>> next. and the rear axle is just along for the ride and wear the least.
>> When the front wear to a point where traction may be compromised or reach 4
>> yrs
>> old, I move them to mid axle. Mid axle rims get new tires and moved to the
>> rear. Rear tires get moved to the front. Do this every two years, so I'm
>> only laying out money for two at a time every two years. We also put on
>> about 10 - 14 k miles every year. So by the time replace two 6yr old tires,
>> they have between 30-42K miles on them. They have now timed out with as
>> many miles as I can get out of them and still safely run them. This way,
>> oldest tires are 6yrs, followed by 4 yrs and 2yrs. I've actually got one
>> wheel...the passenger side mid axle that is slightly toed in and wears
>> faster
>> than all of the others. But it has become not worth the effort to correct
>> the slight toe problem on that wheel, because the tire there times out
>> before it is worn below the wear bars. This all works for me running
>> Michelin Defender LTX-MS tires. If the coach will stand still for more than
>> a
>> couple of weeks, I tire cover them as I do not have inside storage.
>>
>> The hard part is getting into that replacement management scheme. You may
>> have to replace a set a year or two earlier or later to get the rotation
>> right. I was able to do it when I bought an off-brand set of tires that
>> tread separated. Two of them at two years use and another two at 4 years.
>> Just
>> worked out for me. The problem with off-brand tires is that they were
>> regionally available, so when they went bad while traveling south, I was not
>> able to get to a shop that carried the brand to make the adjustment. The
>> one time I could get to a shop that carried them, it was far enough out of
>> the way that it would have cost me more in gas to get there than the cost
>> of the replacement tire. JMHO, but now I use only Michelin LTXMS, and have
>> never had a problem with them. To me, the peace of mind is worth the extra
>> money for the Brand Name.
>>
>> I also take the best of the two 6 yr old tires and move it to the spare.
>> Requires having same size rim on spare as the other 6 on the coach. That way
>> the spare is never more than 8 yrs old.
>>
>> FWIW, some time when you have time, take your GMCMH to a empty part of a
>> parking lot. Stop somewhere out of the way. Then, turning the steering
>> wheel,
>> crank the wheel all of the way either left or right. Put coach in gear and
>> go forward 1/4 to 1/2 of a circle. Stop, put it in park and get out and
>> look at the 4 rear wheel/tires. It is shocking how much those bogie arms
>> and tires bend/squirm to accommodate a turn. / | \ Front tires don't
>> react
>> nearly as extreme as rears. So, every time you turn a corner, you are
>> really working those sidewalls. IMO, with that kind of squirm, this is why
>> most
>> blow-outs occur on the rear as those sidewalls are consistantly being
>> bent/streatched to their limits. So, I think we need to be running a well
>> made/engineered tire that is capable of handling this abuse. When I park
>> my coach for the night or for that matter, any period of time, if I had just
>> turned the wheel a little, I will point the wheels straight forward, then
>> pull forward and back 2-3 times just to take the bend/squirm out of the
>> tires. Just what I do. (JWID)
>>
>> Hope this helps. :p
>> --
>> Larry
>> 78 Royale w/500 Caddy
>> Menomonie, WI.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>>
>
>
> --
>
> *John Phillips*
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
 
Since I am getting flat spots on the most aft tire, I would hate to put the new tires there and chance more flat spots on a brand new tire. From front
to back works for me. And thanks.
--
Scott Nutter
1978 Royale Center Kitchen, Patterson 455, switch pitch tranny, 3.21 final drive, Quad bags, tankless water heater, everything Lenzi. Alex Ferrera
installed MSD Atomic EFI
Houston, Texas
 
> Since I am getting flat spots on the most aft tire, I would hate to put the new tires there and chance more flat spots on a brand new tire. From
> front to back works for me. And thanks.

HI Scott.
I see by your sig file that you are running the Applied Quad bag system. That system should be minimizing flat spotting by not allowing the pole
vaulting that stock and other systems allow. Other forum members out there...correct me if I'm wrong , but IMO you should be looking at why that 3rd
axle is skidding and find a way to correct it. JMHO
--
Larry
78 Royale w/500 Caddy
Menomonie, WI.
 
Larry,

The 4-bag and quad-bag systems undoubtedly minimize pole-valuting by
eliminating the air bag connection between the leading and trailing
suspension arms. But, they DO NOT PREVENT pole vaulting. That's caused by
the reaction from braking forces being applied upward on the bogie by the
center wheels' suspension arms. Only the reaction arm systems translate
those forces into less harmful directions. So, isolated air bags offer
only minimal improvement of rear wheel adhesion.

Ken H.

On Sun, Oct 18, 2020 at 9:16 AM Larry via Gmclist
wrote:

> > Since I am getting flat spots on the most aft tire, I would hate to put
> the new tires there and chance more flat spots on a brand new tire. From
> > front to back works for me. And thanks.
>
> HI Scott.
> I see by your sig file that you are running the Applied Quad bag system.
> That system should be minimizing flat spotting by not allowing the pole
> vaulting that stock and other systems allow. Other forum members out
> there...correct me if I'm wrong , but IMO you should be looking at why that
> 3rd
> axle is skidding and find a way to correct it. JMHO
> --
> Larry
> 78 Royale w/500 Caddy
> Menomonie, WI.
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
 
With the buy 2 plan you leave 25% money on the table. Cooper has buy 3 get one free right now. Or when buying 6 or 7 they simply take 25% off. No
discount or free tire buying just 2.
--
John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II
 
Larry,
It was 100% my fault for the flat spots. I recently flushed and bled the brakes, and adjusted the rear shoes. I must of over adjusted the most aft
shoes too much, for they were locking up while braking at times. I have found one flat spot, but I still haven’t taken the tires off yet. There is
still a chance it might be a bubble in the tread, but it is a Michelin LTX. So I would not expect one.
I’ll have to chalk it up as a expensive lesson!!
Thanks, Scott.
--
Scott Nutter
1978 Royale Center Kitchen, Patterson 455, switch pitch tranny, 3.21 final drive, Quad bags, tankless water heater, everything Lenzi. Alex Ferrera
installed MSD Atomic EFI
Houston, Texas
 
> Larry,
> It was 100% my fault for the flat spots. I recently flushed and bled the brakes, and adjusted the rear shoes. I must of over adjusted the most aft
> shoes too much, for they were locking up while braking at times. I have found one flat spot, but I still haven’t taken the tires off yet. There is
> still a chance it might be a bubble in the tread, but it is a Michelin LTX. So I would not expect one.
> I’ll have to chalk it up as a expensive lesson!!
> Thanks, Scott.

Scott,

I hear ya....been there...exactly there, when I went to the Lenzi mid axle brakes. Actually had to disconnect the 3rd axle until I changed out the
Sully bag system for a used 4 bag. Hooked up the 3rd axle now and I haven't slid it yet. But then I haven't had a real hard breaking yet either. We
shall see.
--
Larry
78 Royale w/500 Caddy
Menomonie, WI.
 
> Larry,
>
> The 4-bag and quad-bag systems undoubtedly minimize pole-valuting by
> eliminating the air bag connection between the leading and trailing
> suspension arms. But, they DO NOT PREVENT pole vaulting. That's caused by
> the reaction from braking forces being applied upward on the bogie by the
> center wheels' suspension arms. Only the reaction arm systems translate
> those forces into less harmful directions. So, isolated air bags offer
> only minimal improvement of rear wheel adhesion.
>
> Ken H.

Thanks Ken. I've been trying, ever since the reaction system came out to wrap my head around the forces that make the reaction system work. My pea
brain just will not compute it. Maybe some day we can sit down with pencil and paper and you...or someone....can explain in simple terms how it
works.

In the mean time, the Harrison 4bag made a BIG difference over the Sully system in terms of lockup of that 3rd axle. JWIT
--
Larry
78 Royale w/500 Caddy
Menomonie, WI.
 
Larry,

If you'll help me remember, the next time we're to meet, I'll bring along
(IF I can find it) the wooden mockup I made to demonstrate with & without
reaction arms. Once seen, it's obvious.

Ken H.

On Sun, Oct 18, 2020 at 2:43 PM Larry via Gmclist
wrote:

> > Larry,
> >
> > The 4-bag and quad-bag systems undoubtedly minimize pole-valuting by
> > eliminating the air bag connection between the leading and trailing
> > suspension arms. But, they DO NOT PREVENT pole vaulting. That's caused
> by
> > the reaction from braking forces being applied upward on the bogie by the
> > center wheels' suspension arms. Only the reaction arm systems translate
> > those forces into less harmful directions. So, isolated air bags offer
> > only minimal improvement of rear wheel adhesion.
> >
> > Ken H.
>
> Thanks Ken. I've been trying, ever since the reaction system came out to
> wrap my head around the forces that make the reaction system work. My pea
> brain just will not compute it. Maybe some day we can sit down with pencil
> and paper and you...or someone....can explain in simple terms how it
> works.
>
> In the mean time, the Harrison 4bag made a BIG difference over the Sully
> system in terms of lockup of that 3rd axle. JWIT
> --
> Larry
> 78 Royale w/500 Caddy
> Menomonie, WI.
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
 
> Larry,
>
> If you'll help me remember, the next time we're to meet, I'll bring along
> (IF I can find it) the wooden mockup I made to demonstrate with & without
> reaction arms. Once seen, it's obvious.
>
> Ken H.

Thanks Ken...yuurr on!
--
Larry
78 Royale w/500 Caddy
Menomonie, WI.
 
It took me a while to figure out how it all works but then a light finally came on and it all came together. All it does is drive the braking action
directly into the chassis through the reaction arm instead of trying to get the braking action through the control arm/tire combo. The caliper is
connected directly to the chassis instead of the control arm permitting this to work. Probably not too clear but I tried. :p
Hal
--
"I enjoy talking to you. Your mind appeals to me. It resembles my own mind, except you happen to be insane."

1977 Royale 101348,

1977 Royale 101586, Diesel powered,

1974 Eagle Bus 45',w/slideout,

Rio Rancho, NM
 
The braking effort is transferred from trying to lift the suspension off
the pavement, to rotational force that is applied to the frame of the
coach. This makes the frame bear down on the wheels & tires, providing more
force in the downward direction. Plants the tires more firmly, and prevents
lockup of the brakes until they all lock up. Clear as mud, right?
Jim Hupy
Salem, Oregon

On Mon, Oct 19, 2020, 10:43 AM Hal StClair via Gmclist <

> It took me a while to figure out how it all works but then a light finally
> came on and it all came together. All it does is drive the braking action
> directly into the chassis through the reaction arm instead of trying to
> get the braking action through the control arm/tire combo. The caliper is
> connected directly to the chassis instead of the control arm permitting
> this to work. Probably not too clear but I tried. :p
> Hal
> --
> "I enjoy talking to you. Your mind appeals to me. It resembles my own
> mind, except you happen to be insane."
>
> 1977 Royale 101348,
>
> 1977 Royale 101586, Diesel powered,
>
>
>
> 1974 Eagle Bus 45',w/slideout,
>
> Rio Rancho, NM
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
 
Scott,

If your flat spotted tires are still "good" (ie: not aged out or overly worn, and the "flat spots" are not overly deep) you may want to see if any
tire shops around your area have a tire lathe. Tire lathes are most commonly used these days for shaving race tires, as some full tread depth race
tires will not be able to shed heat due to the tread depth and chunk out...

However, tire lathes can also be used to "true up" a flat spotted tire.

I've used this on a pair of flat spotted race tires before, and it worked well in that application.... Got several more weekends out of a pair of
tires that would have otherwise been trash.

Cost about $30 bucks a tire, iirc.... Not a common tool in most tire shops, but you may be able to find a shop with one if you ask around your
area...
--
Mark S. '73 Painted Desert,
Manny 1 Ton Front End,
Howell Injection,
Leigh Harrison 4bag and Rear Brakes,
Fort Worth, TX