Thermasan

H

henry davis

New member
Dec 21, 1999
1,344
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>Mine is '76 26 Palm Beach (6kw drawer here too) - I have original service
>brown service manual (2 inch thick thing) and have just finished reading
>up on 'Thermasan' system - thank god - never installed as never as I can
>see.. Would I, however, dearly love to try to pass smog test with it
>installed and running some day.. :) ..


The Thermasan would not affect your ability top[ass a smog check because
the unit checks to see if the vehicle is travelling at least 35MPH.

FWIW, the Thermasan was approved as an option and is therefore street legal
in all 50 states.

Henry
 
Stupid question, but what is a "Thermasan"?

Thanks,

Peter
77 Eleganza II
Colorado

- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Henry Davis"
To:
Sent: Friday, June 09, 2000 11:30 PM
Subject: GMC: Thermasan

>
> >Mine is '76 26 Palm Beach (6kw drawer here too) - I have original service
> >brown service manual (2 inch thick thing) and have just finished reading
> >up on 'Thermasan' system - thank god - never installed as never as I can
> >see.. Would I, however, dearly love to try to pass smog test with it
> >installed and running some day.. :) ..
>
>
> The Thermasan would not affect your ability top[ass a smog check because
> the unit checks to see if the vehicle is travelling at least 35MPH.
>
> FWIW, the Thermasan was approved as an option and is therefore street
legal
> in all 50 states.
>
> Henry
>
>
>
>
 
My explanation. The waste from the toilet goes to the engine and somewhere
there is burnt up and is blown out the exhaust ! Mind you this is just my
explanation.

Marlene Meineken
- ----- Original Message -----
From: Peter Brandt
To:
Sent: Saturday, June 10, 2000 7:48 AM
Subject: Re: GMC: Thermasan

> Stupid question, but what is a "Thermasan"?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Peter
> 77 Eleganza II
> Colorado
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Henry Davis"
> To:
> Sent: Friday, June 09, 2000 11:30 PM
> Subject: GMC: Thermasan
>
>

> >
> > >Mine is '76 26 Palm Beach (6kw drawer here too) - I have original
service
> > >brown service manual (2 inch thick thing) and have just finished
reading
> > >up on 'Thermasan' system - thank god - never installed as never as I
can
> > >see.. Would I, however, dearly love to try to pass smog test with it
> > >installed and running some day.. :) ..
> >
> >
> > The Thermasan would not affect your ability top[ass a smog check because
> > the unit checks to see if the vehicle is travelling at least 35MPH.
> >
> > FWIW, the Thermasan was approved as an option and is therefore street
> legal
> > in all 50 states.
> >
> > Henry
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
 
>The Thermasan was a device installed originally on many of the GMC's (it was
>an option). As you were driving (over 35 MPH) you could hit a switch and the
>holding tanks would empty out through the exhaust system thereby burning the
>residue and vaporizing the liquids. I've never seen one work and can only
>imagine the consequences. People tell me they worked well when they were
>functional but they had a tendency to clog up. Let your imagination be your
>guide.

Many good explanations of Thermasan have been given. A few more facts:

1. The Thermasan connection to the black tank was made about half way up -
so you never really emptied the tank
2. The system employed a peristaltic pump which itself was "clog-free."
But, the inlet could get clogged by paper etc.
3. The process was relatively slow. Waste was incinerated at over 1000F by
injection into the exhaust between the manifold and the muffler.

Anyone interested in a "new" Thermasan if I can complete the process of
reverse engineering it?

Henry
 
>Stupid question, but what is a "Thermasan"?
>
>Thanks,
>
>Peter

You've already been answered by others. I have a brand new one in a
box that I may get around to installing some day. If anyone else in
interested I also know someone that has several of the motors and
pumps they will sell in case anyone wants to try to build one.

Emery Stora
77 Kingsley
Santa Fe, NM
 
Thanks, everybody for your replies to my Thermasan question - at first I
thought you were kidding! Sounds like a pretty good idea, until you get to
drain the nasty stuff that's left in the bottom half of the tank!

Peter
77 Eleganza II
Colorado
 
Hi Henry,
I had an original paper around here about the thermasan
system..I think it is really pretty neet system..I
would consider putting one on mine...but I think a stain
less steel exhaust system would be the way to go with it...
Rob Teed 74 Painted Desert

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-gmcmotorhome
> [mailto:owner-gmcmotorhome]On Behalf Of Henry Davis
> Sent: Saturday, June 10, 2000 1:30 AM
> To: gmcmotorhome
> Subject: GMC: Thermasan
>
>

>
> >Mine is '76 26 Palm Beach (6kw drawer here too) - I have
> original service
> >brown service manual (2 inch thick thing) and have just finished reading
> >up on 'Thermasan' system - thank god - never installed as never as I can
> >see.. Would I, however, dearly love to try to pass smog test with it
> >installed and running some day.. :) ..
>
>
> The Thermasan would not affect your ability top[ass a smog check because
> the unit checks to see if the vehicle is travelling at least 35MPH.
>
> FWIW, the Thermasan was approved as an option and is therefore
> street legal
> in all 50 states.
>
> Henry
>
>
>
>

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>Hi Henry,
> I had an original paper around here about the thermasan
> system..I think it is really pretty neet system..I
>would consider putting one on mine...but I think a stain
>less steel exhaust system would be the way to go with it...

That would help, The major problem that I see is that sometimes folks
didn't let their exhaust dry out after running the Thermasan. Other than
the hydrocarbons, the Thermasan put out a LOT of water.

Henry
 
>
>> Anyone interested in a "new" Thermasan if I can complete the process of
>> reverse engineering it?
>>
I would be.

ChuckC
 
Rick,

Makes sense to me - having to drain your tank only a couple of times a year
would make things easier.
I wonder what happens to the holding tank chemicals at 1000*F temperatures,
though?

Peter
77 Eleganza II
Colorado

- ----- Original Message -----
From:
To:
Sent: Saturday, June 10, 2000 11:05 PM
Subject: Re: GMC: Thermasan

> In a message dated 6/10/00 12:48:32 PM Mountain Daylight Time,
schaf

>
> > Sounds like a pretty good idea, until you get to
> > drain the nasty stuff that's left in the bottom half of the tank!
>
> Peter,
> Actually, normal road motion and biological action pretty much
liquefies
> everything, unless your diet has a lot more roughage than mine. ;-)
> OTOH, that's why the Thermasan doesn't drain all the way down, so
there'll
> be some liquid at all times to prevent anything from solidifying. The
> owner's manual says to drain the tank normally a couple of times a year to
> get out the real solid stuff, like gravel and sand.
>
> Rick Staples
> '75 Eleganza
> Louisville, CO
>
 
>Henry,
> Don't forget that one of the main endproducts of burning gasoline (a
>hydrocarbon) is water. (The "H" in the HC, + O2 => H2O.) The rough rule of
>thumb I heard was that for every gallon of gas burned, about a gallon of
>water goes out the tailpipe. Plus, the gasoline usually has a little sulfur
>so you get a tiny bit of sulfuric acid, and maybe some carbonic acid from the
>CO2, etc. etc.

That's why the Thermasan is no problem. At 1000F you'll mostly get CO2 and
misc other hydrocarbons.

I'd guess that the Thermasan system adds 10X the water per mile traveled
when it's operating. BUT, it's just water. I suspect that those people who
had a real problem with rust (not many that I can tell) run the Thermasan,
stopped, and shut off the engine. This can leave quite a lot of moisture in
the exhaust. I believe that the answer is to run the engine for a while
longer when you stop fi you've been running theThrmasan.

> I want one..... ;-)

Hopefully we'll be able to do something about that soon.

Henry
 
>Rick,
>
>Makes sense to me - having to drain your tank only a couple of times a year
>would make things easier.
>I wonder what happens to the holding tank chemicals at 1000*F temperatures,
>though?

Most of them will disassociate or burn.

Henry
 
Sounds too good to be true. Henry... can you tell us how much effort
it might be to install on our coaches.
al
 
>Sounds too good to be true. Henry... can you tell us how much effort it
>might be to install on our coaches.
>al

I'm stuck with the original specs, so:

Drill one hole in exhaust forward of the (a) muffler.
Drill one hole at the mid level of the black tank.
Install pump inlet tubing into black tank
Install injector into exhaust using band clamps
Mount and wire pump.
Mount electronics assembly
Wire road speed, vacuum, and black tank level sensor (may use existing sensor)
Plumb from exhaust to pump and pump to black tank.

Relatively speaking it should be pretty simple.

Henry
 
I knew the GMC was ahead of its time and now I hear some even had an
environmentally powered after burner. Wow!

- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-gmcmotorhome
[mailto:owner-gmcmotorhome]On Behalf Of Peter Brandt
Sent: Saturday, June 10, 2000 1:48 PM
To: GMCnet
Subject: GMC: Thermasan

Thanks, everybody for your replies to my Thermasan question - at first I
thought you were kidding! Sounds like a pretty good idea, until you get to
drain the nasty stuff that's left in the bottom half of the tank!

Peter
77 Eleganza II
Colorado
 
>The technology is very simple and can be easily implemented. The problem is
>that it is not legal anymore. The EPA would not only have a fit, but you
>would be heavily fined if you are caught. I am not sure of the status of the
>original thermasan units and the EPA?
>
>just a thought.
>

>>Sounds too good to be true. Henry... can you tell us how much effort
>>it might be to install on our coaches.
>>al
>>
>>

Tom - I had one of these units on my Travo motorhome in the early
70's and I have a brank new one in a box in my garage that I've never
installed on the GMC. I have never seen anything that would indicate
that they are not legal at this point in time. I don't think that
there is any law that has been passed making them illegal If not,
there would be no basis for the EPA to fine anyone. However, there
are laws regarding hydrocarbon emmissions and SO2 and SO4, etc. that
may be emitted from an exhaust but I don't know if those laws would
cover this unit. I also don't know if the emissions of this unit
would necessarily emit the no-nos that are banned. Do you have any
specific information on the legality of the Thermasan?

Emery
 
>The technology is very simple and can be easily implemented. The problem is
>that it is not legal anymore. The EPA would not only have a fit, but you
>would be heavily fined if you are caught. I am not sure of the status of the
>original thermasan units and the EPA?

Coaches that were sold with Thermasans as an option are completely legal in
all 50 states when equipped with a Thermasan unit (including a
rebuild/replacement).

The EPA actually has no regs covering incinerating toilets. I will observe
that one of the problems that folks talked about was the use by haz waste
"reclaimers" to burn waste illegally when driving down the road. There was
a rumor that the EPA outlawed the rigs. BUT, they didn't. The comments were
just nice urban legends - I can't find one actual case of anyone using a
Thermasan to destroy hazardous waste. If you think about it, it was pretty
easy to just ilegally dump stuff. Plumbing a Thermasan and the hazmat
containers and driving for MANY hours to get rid of even 50 gallons of
waste seems silly when compared to other illegal disposal methods.

EPA codes cover commercial and industrial waste incinerators but not
individual toilet incinerators. EPA does address many issues of burning as
an air quality issue (including open burning of trash, brush etc). However,
incinerating toilets are not among the regulated items.

The Thermasan system is closest to electric or propane fired toilets in
code requirements. These units do not require any certification for us in
the US. It is however potentially required to have an NSF certification for
new units installed on new coaches. This is a state-by-state requirement
that I believe does not apply to these mobile units.

Henry
 
> "I'd guess that the Thermasan system adds 10X the water per mile traveled
> had a real problem with rust (not many that I can tell) run the Thermasan,
> stopped, and shut off the engine. This can leave quite a lot of moisture in
> the exhaust. I believe that the answer is to run the engine for a while
> longer when you stop fi you've been running the Thrmasan."

I never ran the unit while stopped, in fact it won't run while stopped.
It was always turned off long before the motor was turned off as it was
only used when moving on the road.

HR in Indy 77PB
 
> > "I'd guess that the Thermasan system adds 10X the water per mile traveled
> > had a real problem with rust (not many that I can tell) run the Thermasan,
> > stopped, and shut off the engine. This can leave quite a lot of
> moisture in
> > the exhaust. I believe that the answer is to run the engine for a while
> > longer when you stop fi you've been running the Thrmasan."
>
>I never ran the unit while stopped, in fact it won't run while stopped.

Going 35 MPH (more or less) is one of the conditions that has to be true
for the Thermasan to run. My point was that if it was running and you
stopped it would shut off when your speed dropped below 35 MPH. If this was
done as part of "pull off the hiway and shut off for lunch" there would be
extra water in the exhaust as compared to normal engine operation.

>It was always turned off long before the motor was turned off as it was
>only used when moving on the road.

Other reasons for exhaust systems rust around the injector include the fact
that it is a hole and therefore has a stepped surface that can collect
water. Even running the engine without the Thermasan generates water that
will collect in many places. The THermasan can cause more water to be
collected under some circumstances.

BTW, interested in getting rid of your old unit?

Henry
 
If you can make this fly, Henry, I am in. Darren
not literal, of course.

> >The technology is very simple and can be easily implemented. The problem is
> >that it is not legal anymore. The EPA would not only have a fit, but you
> >would be heavily fined if you are caught. I am not sure of the status of the
> >original thermasan units and the EPA?
>
> Coaches that were sold with Thermasans as an option are completely legal in
> all 50 states when equipped with a Thermasan unit (including a
> rebuild/replacement).
>
> The EPA actually has no regs covering incinerating toilets. I will observe
> that one of the problems that folks talked about was the use by haz waste
> "reclaimers" to burn waste illegally when driving down the road. There was
> a rumor that the EPA outlawed the rigs. BUT, they didn't. The comments were
> just nice urban legends - I can't find one actual case of anyone using a
> Thermasan to destroy hazardous waste. If you think about it, it was pretty
> easy to just ilegally dump stuff. Plumbing a Thermasan and the hazmat
> containers and driving for MANY hours to get rid of even 50 gallons of
> waste seems silly when compared to other illegal disposal methods.
>
> EPA codes cover commercial and industrial waste incinerators but not
> individual toilet incinerators. EPA does address many issues of burning as
> an air quality issue (including open burning of trash, brush etc). However,
> incinerating toilets are not among the regulated items.
>
> The Thermasan system is closest to electric or propane fired toilets in
> code requirements. These units do not require any certification for us in
> the US. It is however potentially required to have an NSF certification for
> new units installed on new coaches. This is a state-by-state requirement
> that I believe does not apply to these mobile units.
>
> Henry

- --
Darren Paget
76 Experimental
Another Fab Day
http://www.TZEplus.com
 
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