Thermasan Question: Chemical Toilet

M

mark sawyer

New member
Aug 20, 2015
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So having taken some longish trips recently with the GMC, I'm increasingly seeing the benefit of the Thermasan system. Especially with my wife,
myself and our 3 kids on board. On the plus side, our coach has a recirculating toilet, which seems to do great on conserving water. But still, 5
people traveling for an extended period can fill a GMC holding tank fairly quick.

So I I've been considering the possibility of trying to piece together a Thermasan system. However, those of you who have chemical toilets know the
key to them is using good chemicals. Thetford's Aqua-Kem seems to do best out of the toilet additives I've tried. However, it contains formaldehyde
and some other chemicals as well.

So my question is, would it be dangerous to use a Thermasan system on holding tanks containing AquaKem?

From what I've read, under heat, formaldehyde brakes down into mostly CO2/and or CO and Methanol, which does not sound too terrible, considering the
CO/CO2 are already present in vehicle exhaust....

Any thoughts, opinions or concerns on using a Thermasan system with holding tank chems?
--
Mark S. '73 Painted Desert,
Manny 1 Ton Front End,
Howell Injection,
Leigh Harrison 4bag and Rear Brakes,
Fort Worth, TX
 
Mark

I have several Thermasan pumps, motors and other components. I am not sure of their working order as I have been storing them for several years.
Let me know what you need and I’ll see if I have it.

Emery Stora
77 Kingsley
Frederick, CO

>
> So having taken some longish trips recently with the GMC, I'm increasingly seeing the benefit of the Thermasan system. Especially with my wife,
> myself and our 3 kids on board. On the plus side, our coach has a recirculating toilet, which seems to do great on conserving water. But still, 5
> people traveling for an extended period can fill a GMC holding tank fairly quick.
>
> So I I've been considering the possibility of trying to piece together a Thermasan system. However, those of you who have chemical toilets know the
> key to them is using good chemicals. Thetford's Aqua-Kem seems to do best out of the toilet additives I've tried. However, it contains formaldehyde
> and some other chemicals as well.
>
> So my question is, would it be dangerous to use a Thermasan system on holding tanks containing AquaKem?
>
> From what I've read, under heat, formaldehyde brakes down into mostly CO2/and or CO and Methanol, which does not sound too terrible, considering the
> CO/CO2 are already present in vehicle exhaust....
>
> Any thoughts, opinions or concerns on using a Thermasan system with holding tank chems?
> --
> Mark S. '73 Painted Desert,
> Manny 1 Ton Front End,
> Howell Injection,
> Leigh Harrison 4bag and Rear Brakes,
> Fort Worth, TX
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
 
I'm intrigued that you have a Thermasan "collection"?! My understanding is limited, and am only aware of four components: pump on waste side, input
into exhaust pipe, the dial at the dash, and some kind of speed sensor. Is that a complete list? I would be interested in trying to make a functioning
system. If you are willing to part with them, please PM me if Mark doesn't opt in. I may have some parts on the Royale I recently bought... there is a
huge knot with electrical tape all over it on the grey tank exit pipe that I have not unwrapped yet. It has 12 volt wires running to it and I am
curious just have not gotten to it yet.

--
1975 Glenbrook, 1978 Royale rear bath
Raleigh, NC
 
Ok - Ready?

A last issue Thermasan had seven components that were not hoses.
1 - The control head in the cab. It contained indicator lights, a time delay relay circuit and a control switch.
2 - A speed switch set for 45MPH (iirc)
3 - A vacuum switch that closed below 15inHg (again iirc)
4 - An RF level sensor that caused the pump to stop on low level
5 - A strainer affair with contacts for the level sensor
6 - The pump - A Cole-Parmer Peristaltic pump driven by a Delco wiper motor that was strapped to run fast.
7 - The "Sanitizer" that got strapped to the exhaust before the muffler. This was a stainless saddle with a small piece of screen and a mineral wool
gasket.

I used to have a box of parts around, but that was 3 or 4 moves ago and I don't recall seeing them in my barn in the last decade.

Do they work??
Yes they work.
I built up an emissions test lab to prove that they worked. I did prove it, but there was no talking to many state environmental people and even
though I was working on the commercial application, there seemed to be a very limited market. We were going after highway buses and tugboats. I was
young and foolish and let my self get dragged into family/company politics a the program got dumped.

They also are real good for making tailgaters back off......

Matt
--
Matt & Mary Colie - '73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Still Loving OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit
 
The speed sensor and vacuum switch can be replaced with a thermocouple temperature controller. According to the Thermasan documents I have the vac
and speed were just to make sure the engine exhaust was hot enough to destroy any of the microscopic critters.

As to chemicals. What happens to the metal parts of the exhaust both before the liquid vaporizes and after. I.E will it cause any undesireable
corrosion. This would have to be answered by someone with chemical smarts.

Matt Collie is the guru on these things. The Cole-Parmer pump can still be purchased. The wiper motor can be found. The bracket and the brass
coupling between the motor and the pump. It took two sets of pump/motor assemblies to make one good one. Pump assembly screws on one were so
corroded they had fractured the plastic, but the motor was good. The other had a good pump but the motor was toast. The whole thing is rather simple
and could be easily duplicated. If you look up the price of a new pump don't choke. The exhaust injector can be easily fabricated and the control
head can be cobbled up. The only thing not available is the level sensor. But that can be worked around.

You see a holding tank gauge near full. You turn on the Thermasan and a few hours later the tank is only half full. You smile.

Half is as far down as the system can pump. I presume the intake is installed at half tank so the pickup screen does not get plugged.

It does work for getting tailgaters to back off. I thought that was just rumor but it's not. It sometimes takes a while for them to figure out what
is happening before they back off. In the meantime the driver and co-pilot are laughing their asses off and making bets on how long it will take.

Official note here: Only legal on "74 and earlier vehicles. But your exhaust system will not know or care.
--
Steve Southworth
1974 Glacier TZE064V100150 (for workin on)
1975 Transmode TZE365V100394 (parts & spares)
Palmyra WI
 
There is a Yahoo group at: https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Thermasan_owners_forum/info and the manuals are on Billy's site.

I have been collecting parts for one myself. You can find the Peristaltic Pumps on Ebay, and Amazon or coleparmer.com. They did make 12V motors
specifically for the pumps (I found one on Ebay) which eliminates the bracket/wiper motor. The pump attaches directly if you can find one. There are
also several Service Bulletins on the Thermasan, if you have the Service Bulletins book. Hope this helps. :)
 
Thanks for all the responses, everyone. I'm going to proceed based on the assumption that heating formaldehyde with engine exhaust won't produce sarin
gas or anything. Emery, I'm starting from scratch, so any parts you are willing to part with I'd be happy to buy. Same goes for anyone else that
have any parts they'd be willing to part with.

If it turns out I am unable to find some or all of the original parts, would anyone have or know where I might find some pics of any of the parts?
Particularly, pics of the pickup and injector would be appreciated.
--
Mark S. '73 Painted Desert,
Manny 1 Ton Front End,
Howell Injection,
Leigh Harrison 4bag and Rear Brakes,
Fort Worth, TX
 
> They also are real good for making tailgaters back off......
>
> Matt

I have often thought of a macerator pump and a rear facing nozzle for exactly the same reason.
--
76 Glenbrook
 
> > They also are real good for making tailgaters back off......
> >
> > Matt
>
>
> I have often thought of a macerator pump and a rear facing nozzle for exactly the same reason.


I thought of that too. However I have a toad. Just to much fuss to have a sanitary quick disconnect at the hitch and run a hose to the rear of the
toad.

There are other things I can think of but I'll just get in trouble.

--
Steve Southworth
1974 Glacier TZE064V100150 (for workin on)
1975 Transmode TZE365V100394 (parts & spares)
Palmyra WI
 
> There is a Yahoo group at: https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Thermasan_owners_forum/info and the manuals are on Billy's site.
>
> Just my opinion (not wanting to battle the EPA). The "Aqua-Kem" probably hasn't changed since it was first made and used with the Thermasan. It's
> primary components are Formaldehyde and Methanol, both of which would incinerate at exhaust temperatures leaving behind CO2 and water with a trace
> of CO. Both of these chemicals can be found in Gasoline.

John,

You are real close. As I recall the mix from the wall of the bottling plant in Dexter:
Water - To fill the bottles
Methanol - To keep the formaldehyde in solution
Formaldehyde - To stop the bacteria that break things down, but put off gasses
Dye - A blue dye to hide the real color
Fragrance - to cover the obvious odor

The blue dye was something else, the people that handled it quickly learned that they did have to used all the protective clothing and devices or
become part Smurf.

Matt
--
Matt & Mary Colie - '73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Still Loving OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit
 
The Fragrance appears to be Geraniol, which is a natural fragrance made from plants. The dye used currently appears to be standard blue food dye. I
can understand needing gloves when handling. If you got concentrated food dye on you, even a couple of drops it would turn you blue for at least a
week. Ask me how I know.
 
I am very interested in the Controller and level sensor Although I wouldn't mind a entire system if I get that lucky.

John

If desired you can email me at mailto:gmcmh
 
I would like a dead/defective level indicator module. I want to dissect one to dertmine if it can be duplicated easily. Given that it was low
production from the 70's that may possible.
--
Steve Southworth
1974 Glacier TZE064V100150 (for workin on)
1975 Transmode TZE365V100394 (parts & spares)
Palmyra WI
 
> So having taken some longish trips recently with the GMC, I'm increasingly seeing the benefit of the Thermasan system. Especially with my wife,
> myself and our 3 kids on board. On the plus side, our coach has a recirculating toilet, which seems to do great on conserving water. But still, 5
> people traveling for an extended period can fill a GMC holding tank fairly quick.
>
> So I I've been considering the possibility of trying to piece together a Thermasan system. However, those of you who have chemical toilets know
> the key to them is using good chemicals. Thetford's Aqua-Kem seems to do best out of the toilet additives I've tried. However, it contains
> formaldehyde and some other chemicals as well.
>
> So my question is, would it be dangerous to use a Thermasan system on holding tanks containing AquaKem?
>
> From what I've read, under heat, formaldehyde brakes down into mostly CO2/and or CO and Methanol, which does not sound too terrible, considering
> the CO/CO2 are already present in vehicle exhaust....
>
> Any thoughts, opinions or concerns on using a Thermasan system with holding tank chems?

If any one wants a reasonable facsimile of a thermosan pump I have one I'd send for the price of shipping. It is a Masterflex 7017-21 pump driven by a
Nissan wiper motor. We had it on and used it until this year when we installed a bigger black tank.
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/power-level-valve-fitting/p10563.html
I used the minimum speed switch in the original cruise and a vacuum switch to control it.
--
Wally Anderson
Omaha NE
75 Glenbrook
Megasquirt III injection
Bob Stone hydroBOOOOST
Manny reaction arm system
Branscombe Kelsey Hayes park brake
http://wallyandsue.blogspot.com/
 
> > So having taken some longish trips recently with the GMC, I'm increasingly seeing the benefit of the Thermasan system. Especially with my
> > wife, myself and our 3 kids on board. On the plus side, our coach has a recirculating toilet, which seems to do great on conserving water. But
> > still, 5 people traveling for an extended period can fill a GMC holding tank fairly quick.
> >
> > So I I've been considering the possibility of trying to piece together a Thermasan system. However, those of you who have chemical toilets
> > know the key to them is using good chemicals. Thetford's Aqua-Kem seems to do best out of the toilet additives I've tried. However, it contains
> > formaldehyde and some other chemicals as well.
> >
> > So my question is, would it be dangerous to use a Thermasan system on holding tanks containing AquaKem?
> >
> > From what I've read, under heat, formaldehyde brakes down into mostly CO2/and or CO and Methanol, which does not sound too terrible,
> > considering the CO/CO2 are already present in vehicle exhaust....
> >
> > Any thoughts, opinions or concerns on using a Thermasan system with holding tank chems?
>
> If any one wants a reasonable facsimile of a thermosan pump I have one I'd send for the price of shipping. It is a Masterflex 7017-21 pump driven
> by a Nissan wiper motor. We had it on and used it until this year when we installed a bigger black tank.
>
> Wally, I'd be interested in the pump if it is still available... Also, I looked at your blog. Nice work on the new black tank. How much
> capacity would you estimate you have now?
> http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/power-level-valve-fitting/p10563.html
> I used the minimum speed switch in the original cruise and a vacuum switch to control it.


--
Mark S. '73 Painted Desert,
Manny 1 Ton Front End,
Howell Injection,
Leigh Harrison 4bag and Rear Brakes,
Fort Worth, TX
 
> > > So having taken some longish trips recently with the GMC, I'm increasingly seeing the benefit of the Thermasan system. Especially with my
> > > wife, myself and our 3 kids on board. On the plus side, our coach has a recirculating toilet, which seems to do great on conserving water. But
> > > still, 5 people traveling for an extended period can fill a GMC holding tank fairly quick.
> > >
> > > So I I've been considering the possibility of trying to piece together a Thermasan system. However, those of you who have chemical
> > > toilets know the key to them is using good chemicals. Thetford's Aqua-Kem seems to do best out of the toilet additives I've tried. However, it
> > > contains formaldehyde and some other chemicals as well.
> > >
> > > So my question is, would it be dangerous to use a Thermasan system on holding tanks containing AquaKem?
> > >
> > > From what I've read, under heat, formaldehyde brakes down into mostly CO2/and or CO and Methanol, which does not sound too terrible,
> > > considering the CO/CO2 are already present in vehicle exhaust....
> > >
> > > Any thoughts, opinions or concerns on using a Thermasan system with holding tank chems?
> >
> > If any one wants a reasonable facsimile of a thermosan pump I have one I'd send for the price of shipping. It is a Masterflex 7017-21 pump
> > driven by a Nissan wiper motor. We had it on and used it until this year when we installed a bigger black tank.
> >
> >
> > http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/power-level-valve-fitting/p10563.html
> > I used the minimum speed switch in the original cruise and a vacuum switch to control it.
>
>
> Wally, I'd be interested in the pump if it is still available... Also, I looked at your blog. Nice work on the new black tank. How much
> capacity would you estimate you have now?

Email me your post address, wallyand at aim . com and I'll send it your way. New tank 37 gallons when it quit venting. Glad to pass the pump along.
--
Wally Anderson
Omaha NE
75 Glenbrook
Megasquirt III injection
Bob Stone hydroBOOOOST
Manny reaction arm system
Branscombe Kelsey Hayes park brake
http://wallyandsue.blogspot.com/
 
> Found this link today, and though an "Expert" opinion would ease your mind.
>
> https://www.americanchemistry.com/Media/PressReleasesTranscripts/ACC-news-releases/Formaldehyde-Is-Biodegradable.html
>
> "Formaldehyde is a ubiquitous, naturally occurring substance produced by every living organism. Studies show that formaldehyde is readily
> biodegradable and does not accumulate in either the environment or in people. In the environment, formaldehyde is quickly broken down in the air by
> sunlight or by bacteria in soil or water."

The above is accurate, but the problem is that it does not take a very high concentration of it to make it very toxic to all biological processes.
This is what makes it effective as a black tank odor control. By killing the biological activity, the formation of sewer gasses is stopped. The
problem with using it in an RV is that if the black tank gets dumped into an anaerobic treatment system that counts on the activity of an bacteria
colony, it can easily damage or kill off the colony. Then the system will fail in short order. If you are always going to dump into a municipal
system, it is not an issue as they always use aerobic processes.

Matt
--
Matt & Mary Colie - '73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Still Loving OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit
 
If you use formaldehyde based additives in your holding tank, and burn that off into CO2 and water with the Thermasan, how is that a problem with
Anerobic waste treatment systems?
 
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