Temporary Shore Power

chuck blanford

New member
Feb 6, 1998
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[Admin note - Chuck, This one was html encoded. Post in "plain text"
only. Patrick]

I'd like to make an electrical cable to run temporary 30 amp power from
my 220 volt dryer receptacle to the coach. Any electricians out there
that can give me pointers? The dryer receptacle has 3 slots, 2 read 110
to ground (neutral?) and the 2 read 220 between them. I have 4 wire
cable; what do I do with the 4th wire?

Thanks in advance for any guidance; I shall strip no wires until the
experts advise. :-)

I want to be able to test the air conditioner at home, and the 10 or 15
amp just doesn't provide the necessary amperage.

Chuck
77 Kingsley
North Idaho
 
>I'd like to make an electrical cable to run temporary 30 amp power from
>my 220 volt dryer receptacle to the coach. Any electricians out there
>that can give me pointers? The dryer receptacle has 3 slots, 2 read 110
>to ground (neutral?) and the 2 read 220 between them. I have 4 wire
>cable; what do I do with the 4th wire?

The Black wire goes to one of the 110 slots, the Red wire goes to the
other. The White wire goes to neutral and the green wire is a safety
ground. If your dryer plug only has the two 110's and neutral than connect
the green wire to an appropriate ground. If you have copper or galvanized
plumbing the nearest pipe will do. You can pick up the appropriate clamp at
most hardware stores. If your dryer was installed properly there will
already be a ground clamp and a separate wire connecting the dryer chassis
to ground.

Don't skip the green wire. If its not hooked up properly and you have an
electrical failure, the chassis of your motorhome could become "hot" as in
charged with 110 volts!

Dave
73 Sequoia
 
Chuck, I sort of did the same thing you want to do. Except that I ran
a new 50 amp circuit to run my arc welder in the garage. The new
outlet in the garage is the female version of the big GMC powercord.

To run the arc welder I made an adapter cord. I bought a heavy duty
cord and plug from Home Depot that fits the 50 amp outlet. On the other
end I attached a small electrical box and installed an outlet that fits the
welder
plug. When I want to weld I just plug the adapter cable in the wall and
then plug
the welder into the adapter cable. For the motorhome, I just plug the
50 amp power cord into the new outlet in the garage.

Depending on where your dryer is located you could do the same thing. Just
make
up an adapter cable to convert the pins of your GMC powercord to the pins of
your
dryer. All the parts you need should be at Home Depot or Lowes.

Richard Waters '76 PB, Troy, MI
- ----

> [Admin note - Chuck, This one was html encoded. Post in "plain text"
> only. Patrick]
>
> I'd like to make an electrical cable to run temporary 30 amp power from
> my 220 volt dryer receptacle to the coach. Any electricians out there
> that can give me pointers? The dryer receptacle has 3 slots, 2 read 110
> to ground (neutral?) and the 2 read 220 between them. I have 4 wire
> cable; what do I do with the 4th wire?
>
> Thanks in advance for any guidance; I shall strip no wires until the
> experts advise. :-)
>
> I want to be able to test the air conditioner at home, and the 10 or 15
> amp just doesn't provide the necessary amperage.
>
> Chuck
> 77 Kingsley
> North Idaho
 
Does anybody know where to get the " official" pinout drawings on these RV
plugs?

Dick Kennedy

>Chuck, I sort of did the same thing you want to do. Except that I ran
>a new 50 amp circuit to run my arc welder in the garage. The new
>outlet in the garage is the female version of the big GMC powercord.
>
>To run the arc welder I made an adapter cord. I bought a heavy duty
>cord and plug from Home Depot that fits the 50 amp outlet. On the other
>end I attached a small electrical box and installed an outlet that fits the
>welder
>plug. When I want to weld I just plug the adapter cable in the wall and
>then plug
>the welder into the adapter cable. For the motorhome, I just plug the
>50 amp power cord into the new outlet in the garage.
>
>Depending on where your dryer is located you could do the same thing. Just
>make
>up an adapter cable to convert the pins of your GMC powercord to the pins of
>your
>dryer. All the parts you need should be at Home Depot or Lowes.
>
>Richard Waters '76 PB, Troy, MI
>----

>
>> [Admin note - Chuck, This one was html encoded. Post in "plain text"
>> only. Patrick]
>>
>> I'd like to make an electrical cable to run temporary 30 amp power from
>> my 220 volt dryer receptacle to the coach. Any electricians out there
>> that can give me pointers? The dryer receptacle has 3 slots, 2 read 110
>> to ground (neutral?) and the 2 read 220 between them. I have 4 wire
>> cable; what do I do with the 4th wire?
>>
>> Thanks in advance for any guidance; I shall strip no wires until the
>> experts advise. :-)
>>
>> I want to be able to test the air conditioner at home, and the 10 or 15
>> amp just doesn't provide the necessary amperage.
>>
>> Chuck
>> 77 Kingsley
>> North Idaho
>
>
 
>Does anybody know where to get the " official" pinout drawings on these RV
>plugs?

"Un-official" pinout drawing:

Neutral
|
v

||
|| || ||
|| ||

()

^ ^ ^
| | |
110v | 110v
|
Safety Ground

Dave
73 Sequoia
 
Dave

Can you depict how the 30A to 50A dog-bone connector works? It goes from 3
male pins on the 30A to 4 female on the 50A receptacle end. What happens
internally with the 3 to 4 arrangement?

Thanks
Chuck
77 Kingsley
North Idaho

- -----Original Message-----
From: Dave
To: gmcmotorhome
Date: Tuesday, June 29, 1999 7:30 AM
Subject: Re: GMC: Temporary Shore Power

> >Does anybody know where to get the " official" pinout drawings on these
RV
> >plugs?
>
>"Un-official" pinout drawing:
>
> Neutral
> |
> v
>
>
> ||
> || || ||
> || ||
>
> ()
>
> ^ ^ ^
> | | |
> 110v | 110v
> |
> Safety Ground
>
>Dave
>73 Sequoia
>
>
 
>Can you depict how the 30A to 50A dog-bone connector works? It goes from 3
>male pins on the 30A to 4 female on the 50A receptacle end. What happens
>internally with the 3 to 4 arrangement?

The standard 30A RV plug has only one 110v circuit. The single 110v pin is
connected to both 110v pins on the 50A receptacle (They can get away with
this because nothing in the motorhome is 220v). The other two pins are
neutral and safety ground. I don't remember the pin designations on the 30A
RV plug so I cant draw that one for you.

Dave
73 Sequoia
 
Chuck, your AC does not run on 220. It runs on 110. All you need to do is
run a 20 or 30 amp fuse to your coach. If you have room in your house panel
place a 30 amp breaker in there. Run a 12 gauge wire for 20 amp or a 10
gauge wire for 30 amp. The ground will go with ground off your receptacle.
White will go to neutral, which should be the white wire in the recep. The
black wire goes to one of the black wires in the recep. There are two black
wires in the recep. This is because each one feeds a different side of your
panel. Check which side of the panel the AC is on and connect the black wire
from your house to that black on your panel. There is nothing on your coach
which runs on 220. If you need further clarification please give me call.
403-225-0282 Whatever you do do not leave this a more than a VERY
temporary test line. Darren

> [Admin note - Chuck, This one was html encoded. Post in "plain text"
> only. Patrick]
>
> I'd like to make an electrical cable to run temporary 30 amp power from
> my 220 volt dryer receptacle to the coach. Any electricians out there
> that can give me pointers? The dryer receptacle has 3 slots, 2 read 110
> to ground (neutral?) and the 2 read 220 between them. I have 4 wire
> cable; what do I do with the 4th wire?
>
> Thanks in advance for any guidance; I shall strip no wires until the
> experts advise. :-)
>
> I want to be able to test the air conditioner at home, and the 10 or 15
> amp just doesn't provide the necessary amperage.
>
> Chuck
> 77 Kingsley
> North Idaho

- --
Darren Paget
76 Experimental
Another Fab Day
paget
 
DO NOT TIE BOTH 110 VOLT LEGS OF A 50A CIRCUIT TOGETHER!!!!! This will
result in a direct short of the 240v circuit. A 50A to 30A dogbone only
taps one side of the 50A circuit.

Patrick

>

> >Can you depict how the 30A to 50A dog-bone connector works? It goes from 3
> >male pins on the 30A to 4 female on the 50A receptacle end. What happens
> >internally with the 3 to 4 arrangement?
>
> The standard 30A RV plug has only one 110v circuit. The single 110v pin is
> connected to both 110v pins on the 50A receptacle (They can get away with
> this because nothing in the motorhome is 220v). The other two pins are
> neutral and safety ground. I don't remember the pin designations on the 30A
> RV plug so I cant draw that one for you.
>
> Dave
> 73 Sequoia

- --
Patrick Flowers
Mailto:patrick

The GMC Motorhome Page
http://www.gmcmotorhome.com
 
Oops! Please pardon the overreaction on my part. Chuck's first inquiry
was connecting from his 220 volt dryer outlet, to his 30A motorhome
cord. I didn't realise that he had changed gears. Yes it is possible
to tie both legs together on 30A to 50A, just don't do it the other way
around.

Patrick

>
> DO NOT TIE BOTH 110 VOLT LEGS OF A 50A CIRCUIT TOGETHER!!!!! This will
> result in a direct short of the 240v circuit. A 50A to 30A dogbone only
> taps one side of the 50A circuit.
>
> Patrick
>

> >

> > >Can you depict how the 30A to 50A dog-bone connector works? It goes from 3
> > >male pins on the 30A to 4 female on the 50A receptacle end. What happens
> > >internally with the 3 to 4 arrangement?
> >
> > The standard 30A RV plug has only one 110v circuit. The single 110v pin is
> > connected to both 110v pins on the 50A receptacle (They can get away with
> > this because nothing in the motorhome is 220v). The other two pins are
> > neutral and safety ground. I don't remember the pin designations on the 30A
> > RV plug so I cant draw that one for you.
> >
> > Dave
> > 73 Sequoia

- --
Patrick Flowers
Mailto:patrick

The GMC Motorhome Page
http://www.gmcmotorhome.com
 
> I'd like to make an electrical cable to run temporary 30 amp power from
> my 220 volt dryer receptacle to the coach. Any electricians out there
> that can give me pointers? The dryer receptacle has 3 slots, 2 read
> 110 to ground (neutral?) and the 2 read 220 between them. I have 4
> wire cable; what do I do with the 4th wire?

Are you doing it this way from the dryer, because it 30 amps or because
it it the closest power (distance-wise) to where you can park the
motorhome? The reason most air conditioners will not start when you run
a 120 volt extention cord out to the motorhome, is the wire in the cord
is not heavy enough for that much distance and that much current. You
can change the variables by borrowing a really heavy cord, or a medium
heavy cord that is just long enough to reach and no more. Also, plug the
heavy extention cord in, closest to the circuit breaker box, not just the
closest outlet like the garage. (be sure the outlet you choose is on a
20 amp circuit and other heavy current appliences are not running on the
same circuit at the same time.

I only say the above because you can make a mistake with 110, but not
usually with 220, especially when you are hot and sweaty . If you
have to dig into the 220, be ablsolutely sure the power is off (there are
other big breakers in the typical home box like Air Conditioning and they
are not always correctly labeled.

Regards,
John

- --

"I do whatever my Rice Krispies tell me to..."
John said, from inside a 1974 Glacier on the
Potomac, just north of the White House.
 
Chuck,
I would suggest that you call Bryon Maxwell 830-816-3004 or E-mail him at
Byron He is very knowledgeable on the GMC having presented
at the International Conventions and sell upgrade to the electrical
system. I personally ran a separate 30 amp 110 amp service to my GMC.

J.R. Wright
GMC GreatLaker
77 Eleganza II
Michigan

>
> [Admin note - Chuck, This one was html encoded. Post in "plain text"
> only. Patrick]
>
> I'd like to make an electrical cable to run temporary 30 amp power from
> my 220 volt dryer receptacle to the coach. Any electricians out there
> that can give me pointers? The dryer receptacle has 3 slots, 2 read 110
> to ground (neutral?) and the 2 read 220 between them. I have 4 wire
> cable; what do I do with the 4th wire?
>
> Thanks in advance for any guidance; I shall strip no wires until the
> experts advise. :-)
>
> I want to be able to test the air conditioner at home, and the 10 or 15
> amp just doesn't provide the necessary amperage.
>
> Chuck
> 77 Kingsley
> North Idaho
 
>I want to be able to test the air conditioner at home, and the 10 or 15
>amp just doesn't provide the necessary amperage.

One more thought Chuck, I know you said 10 or 15 amp, and it has been a
long time since I saw 10 amp fuses, so I just assumed you have a 20 amp
appliance circuit somewhere that you can get to. It has happened to me
too where I just couldn't get enough current even when plugging the 25
foot GMC cable directly into an outlet without an extention cord of any
kind. Especially if the outlet is a long way from the circuit breaker
box, and if it is not rated for 20 amps forget it. You need about 17
amps for the AC.

It has occured to me that it would be possible and safe (if certain
precautions where followed) to rig up a paralleled "Walmart Times Two"
extention cord. We all have these laying around (sometimes a 50 and
also maybe a 100 footer) but they are no good for the GMC AC. Walmart's
cheapest 100 footer is 14 gauge and two of them are still cheaper than a
real heavy duty one by a "far piece" (and I don't mean Walmart's idea of
heavy duty). But two 14 gauges will carry more current than a 10 guage
extention cord. But try to find a 10 guage 100 foot extention at a
reasonable price.

One cannot depend on the polarization of plugs because there is no real
standard when you consider older installations. But if one were to buy
and learn to use a plug tester that told you with LEDs which was hot,
neutral, and ground... One could plug in, even to two separate circuits
at the house, and have some really good current carrying capacity at the
motorhome end.

Cable #1 Test
Here __________
Hot _____________ | |
Neutral _____________ | |
ground ------------- male---| |
| |-|
| | | Female GMC
Cable #2 | |-| style connector
| |
Hot ______________female | |
Neutral ______________ male---| |
Ground -------------- |__________|

It also occured to me that this would work at campgrounds where they
count on you not being able to start your AC. (maybe those are gone by
now...)

- --
Regards,
John

- --

"I do whatever my Rice Krispies tell me to..."
John said, from inside a 1974 Glacier on the
Potomac, just north of the White House.
 
>
> In a home installation the green wire and the neutral wire get connected
> together usually in the main breaker box. All of the bare copper wires in
> your house receptacle boxes also get connected to the "green" wires in the
> breaker box.

I believe that a major difference between a "home" and an "RV"
installation is that the neutral and ground wires do not get tied
together inside the coach. I can check the NEC, but I'm pretty sure
this is born out by the GMC wiring diagrams.

Patrick
- --
Patrick Flowers
Mailto:patrick

The GMC Motorhome Page
http://www.gmcmotorhome.com
 
The neutral and ground do not get TIED together in any residential application,
nor in any RV installation I have ever seen. Even though, they get 'grounded' to
separate bars in the breaker box and appear to be tied together, in some
fashion, they are not attached to the same point. Neutral and ground do not get
tied to the same point. Darren

> >
> > In a home installation the green wire and the neutral wire get connected
> > together usually in the main breaker box. All of the bare copper wires in
> > your house receptacle boxes also get connected to the "green" wires in the
> > breaker box.
>
> I believe that a major difference between a "home" and an "RV"
> installation is that the neutral and ground wires do not get tied
> together inside the coach. I can check the NEC, but I'm pretty sure
> this is born out by the GMC wiring diagrams.
>
> Patrick
> --
> Patrick Flowers
> Mailto:patrick
>
> The GMC Motorhome Page
> http://www.gmcmotorhome.com

- --
Darren Paget
76 Experimental
Another Fab Day
paget
 
>
> The neutral and ground do not get TIED together in any residential application,
> nor in any RV installation I have ever seen. Even though, they get 'grounded' to
> separate bars in the breaker box and appear to be tied together, in some
> fashion, they are not attached to the same point. Neutral and ground do not get
> tied to the same point.

Darren,

I have installed breaker panels in residential applications with a
single bus for ground and neutral. Maybe they're different in Canada.
In the RV, there should be no electrical continuity between the neutral
and ground when not connected to shore power.

Patrick
- --
Patrick Flowers
Mailto:patrick

The GMC Motorhome Page
http://www.gmcmotorhome.com
 
Interesting.

> >
> > The neutral and ground do not get TIED together in any residential application,
> > nor in any RV installation I have ever seen. Even though, they get 'grounded' to
> > separate bars in the breaker box and appear to be tied together, in some
> > fashion, they are not attached to the same point. Neutral and ground do not get
> > tied to the same point.
>
> Darren,
>
> I have installed breaker panels in residential applications with a
> single bus for ground and neutral. Maybe they're different in Canada.
> In the RV, there should be no electrical continuity between the neutral
> and ground when not connected to shore power.
>
> Patrick
> --
> Patrick Flowers
> Mailto:patrick
>
> The GMC Motorhome Page
> http://www.gmcmotorhome.com

- --
Darren Paget
76 Experimental
Another Fab Day
paget
 
I'm not an electrician, but I have to agree with Emery. Ground and Neutral get
tied together in the residence breaker box, but not in the GMC breaker box.

Please refer to page 134-135 of RV Electrical Systems by Bill and Jan Moeller
which states "In residential wiring, the neutral conductor is always connected to
the grounding conductor at the service panel." Then they go on to say "An RV is
said to be electrically "floating" because it is insulated from the earth, or
ground, by its tires, which have the only contact with the earth (metal jacks do
not provide an adequate ground). Therefore, the neutral conductor is also floated
or isolated from all contact with the chassis or other metal parts of the RV.
Only the grounding conductor is bonded to the RV. If the neutral conductor were
connected to the chassis and metal parts, any metal on the RV would be
electrically charged, shocking anyone who touched it while current was flowing
throughout the system."

Richard Waters '76 PB, Troy, MI
- ----

> In a message dated 7/1/99 1:31:43 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

>
> application,
> nor in any RV installation I have ever seen. Even though, they get
> 'grounded' to
> separate bars in the breaker box and appear to be tied together, in some
> fashion, they are not attached to the same point. Neutral and ground do not
> get
> tied to the same point. Darren >>
>
> Darren -- you are flat out wrong on your statement. First, I was addressing
> a house setup, not a motorhome setup. This was because someone wanted to
> wire up a 240 v. dryer plug to use to plug in the motorhome. If you check
> the Nat. Elect. Code and many other references you will find that, as I
> stated, there is a connection between the green ground wires (also bare
> copper wires) and the white neutral wire. This is usually in the main
> circuit breaker box but it can be at the transformer on the post (or
> underground) in some areas.
>
>
> My GMC is still at Buskirks waiting for the engine replacement to be finished
> so I do not have the GMC manual to look at.but since we all don't drive a
> ground rod into the earth when we park our motorhomes, I expect that the box
> in the motorhome may just put the green wire to chassis ground but the
> neutral wire would not go to ground. This can be checked on the GMC wiring
> diagram. This would only apply to the 50 amp service. The 30 amp (Royales?)
> would not have the ground wire.
>

In my '76 PB, the Ground and Neutral are on separate, isolated bus bars in the
breaker box.

Richard Waters '76 PB, Troy, MI

>
> Emery Stora
> 77 Kingsley
> Santa Fe, NM
 
A tragic footnote to this topic. Last Night in Schenectadu two girls spent
the night in a "camper". When one of them got out they grounded whille
holding on the unit. She couldn't let go and was electrocuted. Her
companion also experienced the inability to let go but somehow pried
herself free.

Clearly make sure that the chassis of the vehicle is connected properly to
ground. Even if the neutrel becomes hot or a hot wire touches the chassis
the ground will provide protection.

Bill Hubert

>I'm not an electrician, but I have to agree with Emery. Ground and
Neutral get
>tied together in the residence breaker box, but not in the GMC breaker box.
>
>Please refer to page 134-135 of RV Electrical Systems by Bill and Jan Moeller
>which states "In residential wiring, the neutral conductor is always
connected to
>the grounding conductor at the service panel." Then they go on to say "An
RV is
>said to be electrically "floating" because it is insulated from the earth, or
>ground, by its tires, which have the only contact with the earth (metal
jacks do
>not provide an adequate ground). Therefore, the neutral conductor is also
floated
>or isolated from all contact with the chassis or other metal parts of the RV.
>Only the grounding conductor is bonded to the RV. If the neutral
conductor were
>connected to the chassis and metal parts, any metal on the RV would be
>electrically charged, shocking anyone who touched it while current was
flowing
>throughout the system."
>
>Richard Waters '76 PB, Troy, MI
>----
>

>
>> In a message dated 7/1/99 1:31:43 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

>>
>> > application,
>> nor in any RV installation I have ever seen. Even though, they get
>> 'grounded' to
>> separate bars in the breaker box and appear to be tied together, in some
>> fashion, they are not attached to the same point. Neutral and ground do
not
>> get
>> tied to the same point. Darren >>
>>
>> Darren -- you are flat out wrong on your statement. First, I was
addressing
>> a house setup, not a motorhome setup. This was because someone wanted to
>> wire up a 240 v. dryer plug to use to plug in the motorhome. If you check
>> the Nat. Elect. Code and many other references you will find that, as I
>> stated, there is a connection between the green ground wires (also bare
>> copper wires) and the white neutral wire. This is usually in the main
>> circuit breaker box but it can be at the transformer on the post (or
>> underground) in some areas.
>>
>>
>> My GMC is still at Buskirks waiting for the engine replacement to be
finished
>> so I do not have the GMC manual to look at.but since we all don't drive a
>> ground rod into the earth when we park our motorhomes, I expect that the
box
>> in the motorhome may just put the green wire to chassis ground but the
>> neutral wire would not go to ground. This can be checked on the GMC wiring
>> diagram. This would only apply to the 50 amp service. The 30 amp
(Royales?)
>> would not have the ground wire.
>>
>
>In my '76 PB, the Ground and Neutral are on separate, isolated bus bars in
the
>breaker box.
>
>Richard Waters '76 PB, Troy, MI
>
>
>>
>> Emery Stora
>> 77 Kingsley
>> Santa Fe, NM
>
>
 
I was referring to residential wiring, here in Alberta. I am not too sure on how
wiring is done any place else. In a main panel in a house here the ground, or
bare, wire is connected to a connector bar on one side of the panel. The main
ground wire of this bar is grounded out somewhere up the line. Buried somewhere
underground or something like that. The neutral, or white, wire is goes to a
connector bar on the other side of the panel. The main wire off of this bar goes
up the line and is looked after by the utility co. The power feed is connected to
either side of your panel as two 110 leads. When you jump across both sides you
get 220. One side gives you 110. When wiring in your house, the bare ground wire
and the white neutral wire do not get connected at the same point and therefore
are not tied together.
A 30 amp service has a ground a neutral and a hot wire. A 50 amp service has a
ground a neutral and two hot wires. Your ground, when hooked up to shore power is
made through your plug. The 50 amp service will supply two sides of your panel
with 110 each. This will give you 220, if the service is 220, when you jump across
both sides. The 30 amp service will give you 110 to your panel. This can be split
in two, the way the Onan is done, to feed both sides but when you jump across you
will not have 220. The 40 or 50 amp service will allow you to run two AC's and the
30 will let you run 1.

> In a message dated 7/1/99 1:31:43 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

>
>
>
> Subject: What does an electrical service look like?
> There are logically four wires involved with supplying the
> main panel with power. Three of them will come from the utility
> pole, and a fourth (bare) wire comes from elsewhere.
> The bare wire is connected to one or more long metal bars pounded
> into the ground, or to a wire buried in the foundation,
> One of the other wires will be white (or black with white or
> yellow stripes, or sometimes simply black). It is the neutral wire.
> It is connected to the "centre tap" (CEC; "center tap" in the
> NEC ;-) of the distribution transformer supplying the power. It
> is connected to the grounding conductor in only one place (often
> inside the panel). The neutral and ground should not be connected
> anywhere else.
> The other two wires will usually be black, and are the "hot"
> wires. They are attached to the distribution transformer as well.
> The two black wires are 180 degrees out of phase with each
> other. This means if you connect something to both hot wires,
> the voltage will be 220 volts. If you connect something to the
> white and either of the two blacks you will get 110V.
> Some panels seem to only have three wires coming into them.
> This is either because the neutral and ground are connected
> together at a different point (eg: the meter or pole) and one
> wire is doing dual-duty as both neutral and ground, or in some
> rare occasions, the service has only one hot wire (110V only
> service).
>
> My GMC is still at Buskirks waiting for the engine replacement to be finished
> so I do not have the GMC manual to look at.but since we all don't drive a
> ground rod into the earth when we park our motorhomes, I expect that the box
> in the motorhome may just put the green wire to chassis ground but the
> neutral wire would not go to ground. This can be checked on the GMC wiring
> diagram. This would only apply to the 50 amp service. The 30 amp (Royales?)
> would not have the ground wire.
>
> Emery Stora
> 77 Kingsley
> Santa Fe, NM

- --
Darren Paget
76 Experimental
Another Fab Day
paget