Synthetics are great. But I don't see them in our old dirty engines

B

Bob Dunahugh

New member
Sep 17, 2012
2,784
4
3
I think nowadays, most manufactures recommend synthetics for the engine t=
hat are produced today. Yes. Both the old/new engines have pistons that go =
up, and down. And a crankshaft that goes round, and round. But after that. =
It's a different world. Look how small the oil filters are. And how long th=
e oil change cycles are. These new engine run extremely clean inside the cr=
ankcase. As to oil contamination. Our engine are of a different design.=
That produce much more of these damaging crankcase oil contaminants. You=
help to negate some of what these contaminants do to you engine. Simply =
by removing them by more frequent oil/filter changes. Using synthetics simp=
ly doesn't change this situation. I put the Howell/GM EFI system on our 403=
. I've noticed that my oil stays cleaner, longer. But even after adding the=
EFI. I haven't lengthened my oil change intervals. YES. I'm a NUT on oil c=
hanges. But I seem to get some benefits. As an example. I have a 98 Chevy =
Astro that was used for one of our businesses. Then our daughter used it f=
or some year. Now I'm back to using it. I like it. The interior/seats still=
look great. Oil/filter changes have always been in the 3000 mile range. Th=
e odometer is now at 324,000 miles. Hot oil PSI are at 50. Never add oil b=
etween oil changes. That 4.3 Chevy V6 has never been apart for anything. Al=
ways had the same old 10W-30 used in it. Planning on a trip to Kansas/Oklah=
oma from Iowa in the next few weeks with it. As to synthetic oils. Use them=
. Just don't go over 3000 miles on an oil change. Bob Dunahugh 78 Royal=
e
 
> I think nowadays, most manufactures recommend synthetics for the engine that are produced today. Yes. Both the old/new engines have pistons that
> go up, and down. And a crankshaft that goes round, and round. But after that. It's a different world. Look how small the oil filters are. And how
> long the oil change cycles are. These new engine run extremely clean inside the crankcase. As to oil contamination.
> Our engine are of a different design. That produce much more of these damaging crankcase oil contaminants. You help to negate some of what
> these contaminants do to you engine. Simply by removing them by more frequent oil/filter changes. Using synthetics simply doesn't change this
> situation. I put the Howell/GM EFI system on our 403. I've noticed that my oil stays cleaner, longer. But even after adding the EFI. I haven't
> lengthened my oil change intervals. YES. I'm a NUT on oil changes. But I seem to get some benefits. As an example. I have a 98 Chevy Astro that was
> used for one of our businesses. Then our daughter used it for some year. Now I'm back to using it. I like it. The interior/seats still look great.
> Oil/filter changes have always been in the 3000 mile range. The odometer is now at 324,000 miles. Hot oil PSI are at 50. Never add oil between oil
> changes. That 4.3 Chevy V6 has never been apart for anything. Always had the same old 10W-30 used in it. Planning on a trip to Kansas/Oklahoma from
> Iowa in the next few weeks with it. As to synthetic oils. Use them. Just don't go over 3000 miles on an oil change. Bob Dunahugh 78 Royale

Bob,

There is no disadvantage to your level of paranoia.

There are real advantages to the synthetics that absolutely should not apply to our application.
- They resist degradation from the acids of combustion by-products.
- They resist oxidation breakdown for much longer than dino oils. (Still limits at about a years service.)
- They do not cease to be a lubricant when exposed to temperatures in excess of 305°F.

Before my engine developed an internal coolant leak and we were working on an 12K mile season I did extend the oil change to about 9K with regular
reports from Brookstone.

When Chaumière gets back on the road, I am hoping to try it again. Is this a cost issue? Buy not changing out the lube oil I can save 28$us on a 3K
mile run (that is 23 for the oil and a filter from Rock Auto).
Could I probably do this with a good dino oil? Sure!!!
The savings between buying M1-15w50 in a jug at Walmart and any good dino oil I can get would probably save me as much as 8$us per lube oil service.

This is just noise when you compare it to the ~3K$us I put into the engine last year.

I also buy 10$ a tube synthetic grease. Oil and grease are always cheaper than parts. (Too bad grease would not have saved a lower control arm.)

So, if you are running your coach 3~5K miles a year and the engine is a long way from its last overhaul, save the money for beer or some other
worthwhile expense.

Matt
--
Matt & Mary Colie - '73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan
OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit
 
Matt. How often do you change your oil filter? Bob D _______________=
_________________ From: Bob Dunahugh Sent: Sunday, April 28, 2019 11:52=
AM To: gmclist Subject: Synthetics are great. But I do=
n't see them in our old dirty engines I think nowadays, most manufac=
tures recommend synthetics for the engine that are produced today. Yes. Bot=
h the old/new engines have pistons that go up, and down. And a crankshaft t=
hat goes round, and round. But after that. It's a different world. Look how=
small the oil filters are. And how long the oil change cycles are. These n=
ew engine run extremely clean inside the crankcase. As to oil contamination=
. Our engine are of a different design. That produce much more of thes=
e damaging crankcase oil contaminants. You help to negate some of what t=
hese contaminants do to you engine. Simply by removing them by more frequen=
t oil/filter changes. Using synthetics simply doesn't change this situation=
. I put the Howell/GM EFI system on our 403. I've noticed that my oil stays=
cleaner, longer. But even after adding the EFI. I haven't lengthened my oi=
l change intervals. YES. I'm a NUT on oil changes. But I seem to get some b=
enefits. As an example. I have a 98 Chevy Astro that was used for one of =
our businesses. Then our daughter used it for some year. Now I'm back to us=
ing it. I like it. The interior/seats still look great. Oil/filter changes =
have always been in the 3000 mile range. The odometer is now at 324,000 mi=
les. Hot oil PSI are at 50. Never add oil between oil changes. That 4.3 Che=
vy V6 has never been apart for anything. Always had the same old 10W-30 use=
d in it. Planning on a trip to Kansas/Oklahoma from Iowa in the next few we=
eks with it. As to synthetic oils. Use them. Just don't go over 3000 miles =
on an oil change. Bob Dunahugh 78 Royale
 
I do oil changes based on pounds of fuel burned and hours of operation, with time since last drain as a final factor. If let's say a Toronado in
good tune at 55 MPH could get 20 MPG, compare that to our 10 MPG. So just for easy math the GMC has twice the fuel rate. 3000 interval is the
equivalent of 6000 miles of combustion byproducts to keep in suspension. If you do lots of city driving then the engine is running but not moving the
odometer much of the time, so mileage not always a very accurate indicator. I shoot for 2000 mile drain intervals so if I am late it is ok. This
shortened interval keeps the engine cleaner so next oil change stays cleaner (to the eye) longer. Also that way on a long trip I feel I can stretch to
4000 before getting home to drain. On my XJ Jeep overhead display I find around 80 hours is the 3000 mile mark. So I would shoot to not exceed 100
Hrs. We are at best in the severe service interval chart, but after sandy, dust storm or other extreme conditions I would do a service ASAP. For the
record been using only T6 5W-40 since Cinnabar 455 installed. No issues to date in about 10 years.
--
John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II
 
> Matt. How often do you change your oil filter? Bob D

Bob,

While I do always changed it out at a lube oil service and I could not extend those when there was coolant in the lube oil, when I was running
extended service, I would regularly change the filter out at 4500~5000 miles because that was when we were at home. Changing the lube oil filter on
the road has just never been a good option to me.

Matt
--
Matt & Mary Colie - '73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan
OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit
 
Along these lines, a college classmate - early 60s - had a chevy 2 with a partial flow oil filter. Was an accessory. It used a roll of john wayne
toilet paper as the element, and his oil stayed surprisingly clean in Ballimer winter city driving. I always wondered why it did so much better than
a spin on filter.

--johnny
--
Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
 
When I was a farm boy back in 68 There was a tractor that had 2 3 roll
filters plummed so all the oil went through one of the 6 toilet paper
filters. It seemed to work well as long as you kept the filters changed. I
was told the main problem was that oil would cut a channel through the
paper and not filter as well after that.

On Mon, Apr 29, 2019 at 11:42 AM Johnny Bridges via Gmclist <

> Along these lines, a college classmate - early 60s - had a chevy 2 with a
> partial flow oil filter. Was an accessory. It used a roll of john wayne
> toilet paper as the element, and his oil stayed surprisingly clean in
> Ballimer winter city driving. I always wondered why it did so much better
> than
> a spin on filter.
>
>
> --johnny
> --
> Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
> Braselton, Ga.
> I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me
> in hell
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>

--

*John Phillips*
 
I remember those filters and had one on a vehicle I bought. It was a Franz brand, there may have been others. It did do a wonderful job keeping the
oil clean but there was a pretty good pressure drop across it.
Mind you that was with a stock oil pump and a fair ammount of mileage

It certainly did a better job removing carbon and particles, but i doubt it removed enough chemical contaminants to justify the change intervals Franz
claimed. I wonder if anyone did any actual oil analysis on it.As to why Id say it was like a multiple pass effect, as the element was longer and
effectivly thicker

I also tried an Oberg filter which was basicly an inline low micron mesh inline to a cooler. You could take it apart to clean it and see what it was
picking up. At one time it was popular in racing to cut apart filters to look at that but it was a huge messy PITA.
TBH, I think regular oil filtration would do a better job. Maybe add one in advance of a remote filter if you wanted to track particles.
--
76 Glenbrook
 
The good part was the filter elements were cheap and in the case of the 6
roll installation, there were about 200 sq inches and 1 inch thick of
filter. That much filter could trap a lot of carbon but there was nothing
to do about chemistry. They did hold a lot more oil.
John Phillips
75 Avion VIN A26000
Retired
Rancho Cordova, CA 95670

On Mon, Apr 29, 2019 at 3:03 PM Chris Tyler via Gmclist <

> I remember those filters and had one on a vehicle I bought. It was a Franz
> brand, there may have been others. It did do a wonderful job keeping the
> oil clean but there was a pretty good pressure drop across it.
> Mind you that was with a stock oil pump and a fair ammount of mileage
>
> It certainly did a better job removing carbon and particles, but i doubt
> it removed enough chemical contaminants to justify the change intervals
> Franz
> claimed. I wonder if anyone did any actual oil analysis on it.As to why Id
> say it was like a multiple pass effect, as the element was longer and
> effectivly thicker
>
> I also tried an Oberg filter which was basicly an inline low micron mesh
> inline to a cooler. You could take it apart to clean it and see what it was
> picking up. At one time it was popular in racing to cut apart filters to
> look at that but it was a huge messy PITA.
> TBH, I think regular oil filtration would do a better job. Maybe add one
> in advance of a remote filter if you wanted to track particles.
> --
> 76 Glenbrook
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>

--

*John Phillips*
 
With synthetic the molecules should mostly be uniform size. I would think will less smaller ones (lighter) there would be less leakage.
--
John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II
 
I find this all interesting. When I drove the current coach back from LA I passed hundreds of miles of wind turbines. Siemans builds parts for them
down the way from me three miles or so. We make tax money and jobs off them.
The argument for solar uses the idea that there are supposedly enough acreage in the Southwest at some wats per square foot to supply the nation's
need. But, if the sun is shining. And these arguments don't address the pollution from making the solar cells. Etc. It's a specious argument as is
wind power for much the same reasons. If we wish to 'save the earth' etc., we had best learn to live with nuclear power. The current regulatory
climate is such that it's probably not possible to built the things. Given m,y rather selfish old age outlook, I will probably continue driving my
GMC and spewing polluants across the countryside.

--johnny
--
Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
 
All things considered he 15/50 Mobil 1 at walyworld is a bargain.
Good oil at a good price.
--
1977 Kingsley 455 as stock as it gets except lots of Ragusa parts
 
I second that. Not only Wally World, but even at Tallahassee the local Autozone had a good deal with a Mobil 1 filter included. As Matt said, there is
just economy in not using synthetic.
--
1978 26' Royale Rear Dinette 403
80mm Front Caliper Branson Rear Disk’s and PB
Alde heating system
 
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