surburban furnace swap

R

rod utterback

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Apr 27, 2016
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Good morning all. Is it possible to swap a surburban nt-32G ducted furnace out of a 1973 Canyonlands and replace it with a new current model? I don’t want to modify my coach’s exterior side and hope not to mod the inside cabinets. I’ve hear that the internals do interchange and I just slide in a new model into the old cabinet. Also the old unit was a 30,000 btu. I plan for some cold weather camping (outside temp as low as 0*) so would a 40,0000 btu unit be excessive? Or even enough!

Can anyone be specific as to model and required labor?

By the way it is amazing how current topics are so timely and are tasks that I am currently doing. Amazing knowledge base! Thank all of you so much.

Rod Utterback
1973 Canyonlands 26ft

Done by me: Brakes,bearings,PD9260, Dash A/C rebuilt, KYB’s,
Fantasics, Fuel tanks etc, Cork flooring, flat screens,
Leds, upgraded calipers/master, stove delete, convection/micro
455 w/ headers,HEI,

Coming soon: FItech, cooling fans, wheels/tires, kick ass audio/video
Upgraded sway bars, body kit, tinted glass, LED dock lighting, awning,
Security/keyless system,
Escondido, Ca.
 
I swapped the failed nt30 in my 23' Birchaven for an nt20. I'm my case I build a new rack to hold it up since it's smaller than the one it replaced.
Check the outside dimensions and the location of the air intake and exhaust, it may be just right.

I can't speak to the heat output, my coach is smaller and I don't do a lot of cold weather camping - though it did do a pretty good job on some 20
degree mornings working out there this winter.

For reference, the nt20 is 19k btu
--
77 Birchaven 23 w/ 455
Reno, NV
 
> Good morning all. Is it possible to swap a surburban nt-32G ducted furnace out of a 1973 Canyonlands and replace it with a new current model? I
> don't want to modify my coach's exterior side and hope not to mod the inside cabinets. I've hear that the internals do interchange and I just slide
> in a new model into the old cabinet. Also the old unit was a 30,000 btu. I plan for some cold weather camping (outside temp as low as 0*) so would a
> 40,0000 btu unit be excessive? Or even enough!
>
> Can anyone be specific as to model and required labor?
>
> By the way it is amazing how current topics are so timely and are tasks that I am currently doing. Amazing knowledge base! Thank all of you so
> much.
>
> Rod Utterback
> 1973 Canyonlands 26ft

Rod,
Very many years ago, I replaced a suburban NT-24(iirc) with a NT-30. (Because it was what I could get from Cinibar fast.)

Problems:
The case size was larger by a little, and the intake and exhaust were lower on the new unit.
* I made a box to jack it up so those lined up.
* The larger case made access to one register difficult, but I used to design ducting so that just took some extra thinking.
The duct size was larger.
* This required running some new larger ducts.
The current compensator in the new thermostat was different and I did not like the new thermostat.
* I used the old one with a resistor to make the current right in the thermostat heater.

I works just fine, but it has a tendency to short cycle.
I cannot imagine that the change could be that big, but you should check dimensions before you get too far.
You will love the pilotless operation.

I very much doubt that you will need more heat than the 30K can do. At 10°F, ours was still cycling (ours is a 73-23 with bad insulation).
If you are going to be in 0°F for long, get some bubble wrap to put over some of the glass.

Other - Get in touch with me when you want to do the key-less bit. I have a very good way to put the operator in the door. The write-up comes with
plans for all three parts you have to make. (Can you bend a piece of wire and drill holes in some aluminum?)

Matt
--
Matt & Mary Colie - '73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Still Loving OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit
 
Possible this would help.

http://www.vintagetrailersupply.com/Suburban-NT-Furnace-p/vts-423.htm

Looks like all the cabinets are the same size. If your replacing an NT 30 you may have 3 ducts open. easy to tell. The larger furnace appears to
need all 4 open.So if you dont already have 4 ducts you may need to run a new one.

Probably wouldn't go larger than 32. I have an NT 30 in our Royale with 4 ducts and it does a nice job of warming things up. It Doesnt cycle on and
off constantly and I have been out there in 0 degree weather working on things.

As mentioned, sealing up air drafts and covering windows will keep the heat in well.
--
77 Royale, Rear Dry Bath. 403, 3.55 Final Drive, Lenzi goodies, Patterson carb and dizzy.
Mid Michigan
 
Maybe I should start a new thread for this and probably will, but has anyone else heard about the "Truma Combi" heater/furnace? Evidently these are
popular with 'caravans' in Europe and are starting to make the scene here in the US. They are used in some of the new class-B units here. This would
appear to be a great, space saving unit for the GMCs.

https://www.truma.com/int/en/heating/combi-6.php
--
Carl Stouffer
'75 ex Palm Beach
Tucson, AZ.
Chuck Aulgur Reaction Arm Disc Brakes, Quadrabags, 3.70 LSD final drive, Lenzi knuckles/hubs, Dodge Truck 16" X 8" front wheels, Rear American Eagles,
Solar battery charging
 
Carl,

Out of curiosity, after reading the web site, I Googled for prices. Never
did find a price for a complete unit, but LOTS of ads for replacement parts
-- some sounding pretty expensive (control board $300+?).

Have you seen a ready-to-install price?

Ken H.

> Maybe I should start a new thread for this and probably will, but has
> anyone else heard about the "Truma Combi" heater/furnace? Evidently these
> are
> popular with 'caravans' in Europe and are starting to make the scene here
> in the US. They are used in some of the new class-B units here. This would
> appear to be a great, space saving unit for the GMCs.
>
> https://www.truma.com/int/en/heating/combi-6.php
> --
> Carl Stouffer
> '75 ex Palm Beach
> Tucson, AZ.
> Chuck Aulgur Reaction Arm Disc Brakes, Quadrabags, 3.70 LSD final drive,
> Lenzi knuckles/hubs, Dodge Truck 16" X 8" front wheels, Rear American
> Eagles,
> Solar battery charging
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
 
> Carl,
>
> Out of curiosity, after reading the web site, I Googled for prices. Never
> did find a price for a complete unit, but LOTS of ads for replacement parts
> -- some sounding pretty expensive (control board $300+?).
>
> Have you seen a ready-to-install price?
>
> Ken H.
>
>

>
> > Maybe I should start a new thread for this and probably will, but has
> > anyone else heard about the "Truma Combi" heater/furnace? Evidently these
> > are
> > popular with 'caravans' in Europe and are starting to make the scene here
> > in the US. They are used in some of the new class-B units here. This would
> > appear to be a great, space saving unit for the GMCs.
> >
> > https://www.truma.com/int/en/heating/combi-6.php
> > --
> > Carl Stouffer
> > '75 ex Palm Beach
> > Tucson, AZ.
> > Chuck Aulgur Reaction Arm Disc Brakes, Quadrabags, 3.70 LSD final drive,
> > Lenzi knuckles/hubs, Dodge Truck 16" X 8" front wheels, Rear American
> > Eagles,
> > Solar battery charging
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > GMCnet mailing list
> > Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> > http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
> >
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org

Ken,

I haven't seen any official pricing, but what I DID see indicated a price of around $5100 - $2000.00. Kind of pricey, but it IS a water heater AND a
forced air furnace. The 6000 watt rating translates to a bit ober 20,000 BTUs.

--
Carl Stouffer
'75 ex Palm Beach
Tucson, AZ.
Chuck Aulgur Reaction Arm Disc Brakes, Quadrabags, 3.70 LSD final drive, Lenzi knuckles/hubs, Dodge Truck 16" X 8" front wheels, Rear American Eagles,
Solar battery charging
 
Hello Carl,

Here in the Netherlands, they are available for around 1900-2500€, depends on which type, the 4 or 6 types, with or without Electro support, also
you can choose between LP or Diesel as energy-source. Additional you need, controller, flexibel hoses etc.
I will post tommorrow some more details and pictures.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0BwRrP8DfhLXUSy16OUpNbGlaaVE

These are used in most european RV's. Reliable and with many satisfiet users.
An alternativ are from ALDE (also from the Truma company) is a heating like at home with radiators filled with an antifrees liquid.
Very comfy but much more work to install but also with an integrated warmwaterheater.
(I have that ALDE in my Hymer RV)

Daniel
--
Daniel Jacobs, No GMC, but an admirer of them .... We'll see what the future brings ....

Always remember, the world is full of nice people!
So, if you can't find one, be one!
 
> Hello Carl,
>
> Here in the Netherlands, they are available for around 1900-2500€, depends on which type, the 4 or 6 types, with or without Electro support,
> also you can choose between LP or Diesel as energy-source. Additional you need, controller, flexibel hoses etc.
> I will post tommorrow some more details and pictures.
>
> https://drive.google.com/open?id=0BwRrP8DfhLXUSy16OUpNbGlaaVE
>
> These are used in most european RV's. Reliable and with many satisfiet users.
> An alternativ are from ALDE (also from the Truma company) is a heating like at home with radiators filled with an antifrees liquid.
> Very comfy but much more work to install but also with an integrated warmwaterheater.
> (I have that ALDE in my Hymer RV)
>
> Daniel

Thanks for the additional info, Daniel. The reason I am interested is due to our frequent dry camping excursions. Our furnace works fine and has
been tested for safety, but we still have the electric water heater, which requires the generator to heat water . The Truma Combi seems like the
ideal solution to the water heating issue along with providing an upgrade to the forced air furnace. I suspect they will become more readily
available here in the US in the next couple of years, maybe even from one of the surplus stores.

--
Carl Stouffer
'75 ex Palm Beach
Tucson, AZ.
Chuck Aulgur Reaction Arm Disc Brakes, Quadrabags, 3.70 LSD final drive, Lenzi knuckles/hubs, Dodge Truck 16" X 8" front wheels, Rear American Eagles,
Solar battery charging
 
Used to carry a roll-a-way full of tools. Now, I carry what I take in one
hand. Visa card, AAA card, and a cell phone. Run your best parts, do your
preventative maintenance at home before you leave. Maybe it will rise up
and bite me one day, but, I don't think so. I carry a set of drive belts, a
fuel pump, and a water pump in the coach. Spare radiator hoses, too.
Thermostat as well. Just me, your needs might vary.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Or
78 GMC ROYALE 403

> > Hello Carl,
> >
> > Here in the Netherlands, they are available for around 1900-2500€,
> depends on which type, the 4 or 6 types, with or without Electro support,
> > also you can choose between LP or Diesel as energy-source. Additional
> you need, controller, flexibel hoses etc.
> > I will post tommorrow some more details and pictures.
> >
> > https://drive.google.com/open?id=0BwRrP8DfhLXUSy16OUpNbGlaaVE
> >
> > These are used in most european RV's. Reliable and with many satisfiet
> users.
> > An alternativ are from ALDE (also from the Truma company) is a heating
> like at home with radiators filled with an antifrees liquid.
> > Very comfy but much more work to install but also with an integrated
> warmwaterheater.
> > (I have that ALDE in my Hymer RV)
> >
> > Daniel
>
>
> Thanks for the additional info, Daniel. The reason I am interested is due
> to our frequent dry camping excursions. Our furnace works fine and has
> been tested for safety, but we still have the electric water heater, which
> requires the generator to heat water . The Truma Combi seems like the
> ideal solution to the water heating issue along with providing an upgrade
> to the forced air furnace. I suspect they will become more readily
> available here in the US in the next couple of years, maybe even from one
> of the surplus stores.
>
> --
> Carl Stouffer
> '75 ex Palm Beach
> Tucson, AZ.
> Chuck Aulgur Reaction Arm Disc Brakes, Quadrabags, 3.70 LSD final drive,
> Lenzi knuckles/hubs, Dodge Truck 16" X 8" front wheels, Rear American
> Eagles,
> Solar battery charging
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
 
> I will post tommorrow some more details and pictures.
>
> Daniel

Starting with a link to their international site:

https://www.truma.com/int/en/heating/overview-heating-systems.php

http://members.ziggo.nl/d.w.jacobs/GMC/Truma/Truma1.png

In your situation the combi's are the most interesting.

http://members.ziggo.nl/d.w.jacobs/GMC/Truma/Truma2.png

Technical Details:
Truma Combi kachel/boiler combinatie
Truma

Combi 4 en 4E: 2000 - 4000 Watt
Combi 6 en 6E: 2000 - 6000 Watt

Power combi of LP and Electra:
Combi 4 en 6: not available
Combi 4E: 3800 Watt maximaal
Combi 6E: 5800 Watt maximaal

Volume: 10 liter

Propane (Combi 4 en 6)
Propane / elektriciteit (4E en 6E)

Bedrijfsdruk: 30 mbar
Aansluitspanning:
Combi 4 en Combi 6: 12 volt
Combi 4E en 6E: 12volt en 220 volt

Consumption:
Combi 4 en 4E: 160 - 320 gram p/u
Combi 6 en 6E: 160 - 480 gram p/u

Stroomverbruik bij 12 volt:
Boiler: 0,4 Ampère maximaal

Verwarming en boiler: 0,2 tot maximaal 5,6 Ampère (korte tijdspanne)

1,2 Ampère gemiddeld

Stroomverbruik bij 220 volt:
Combi 4 en 6: niet van toepassing

Combi 4E en 6E: 3,9 / 7,8 Ampère

Ruststroom: 0,001 Ampère
Bediening: Voorzien van het nieuwe Truma CP Plus bedieningspaneel
Thermostaat: Meegeleverd
Ventilator: Geïntegreerd
Verwarmingselement:
Combi 4 en 6: niet aanwezig
Combi 4E en 6E: 1800 Watt (2x900 watt)

Opwarmtijd:
Boiler: +- 20minuten
Verwarming en boiler: +-80 minuten

Rendement: 97%
Luchtopbrengst: Maximaal 287m³ per uur
Maximale waterdruk: 2,8 bar
Vorstbescherming: Ja, inclusief
Afmetingen: 510 x 450 x 300 mm (lxbxh)
Gewicht:
Combi 4 en 6: 14,5kg

Combi 4E en 6E: 15,6kg

Exclusief: Schoorsteenset en ringverwarming benodigdheden

----------------------------------------

Sorry for some dutch in the details, but I think, you get the picture ;)

Good luck!
Daniel
--
Daniel Jacobs, No GMC, but an admirer of them .... We'll see what the future brings ....

Always remember, the world is full of nice people!
So, if you can't find one, be one!
 
Read here

http://bdub.net/gmcmotorhome.info/hydronic.html

> > I will post tommorrow some more details and pictures.
> >
> > Daniel
>
>
> Starting with a link to their international site:
>
> https://www.truma.com/int/en/heating/overview-heating-systems.php
>
>
> http://members.ziggo.nl/d.w.jacobs/GMC/Truma/Truma1.png
>
> In your situation the combi's are the most interesting.
>
> http://members.ziggo.nl/d.w.jacobs/GMC/Truma/Truma2.png
>
> Technical Details:
> Truma Combi kachel/boiler combinatie
> Truma
>
> Combi 4 en 4E: 2000 - 4000 Watt
> Combi 6 en 6E: 2000 - 6000 Watt
>
> Power combi of LP and Electra:
> Combi 4 en 6: not available
> Combi 4E: 3800 Watt maximaal
> Combi 6E: 5800 Watt maximaal
>
> Volume: 10 liter
>
> Propane (Combi 4 en 6)
> Propane / elektriciteit (4E en 6E)
>
> Bedrijfsdruk: 30 mbar
> Aansluitspanning:
> Combi 4 en Combi 6: 12 volt
> Combi 4E en 6E: 12volt en 220 volt
>
> Consumption:
> Combi 4 en 4E: 160 - 320 gram p/u
> Combi 6 en 6E: 160 - 480 gram p/u
>
> Stroomverbruik bij 12 volt:
> Boiler: 0,4 Ampère maximaal
>
> Verwarming en boiler: 0,2 tot maximaal 5,6 Ampère (korte tijdspanne)
>
> 1,2 Ampère gemiddeld
>
> Stroomverbruik bij 220 volt:
> Combi 4 en 6: niet van toepassing
>
> Combi 4E en 6E: 3,9 / 7,8 Ampère
>
> Ruststroom: 0,001 Ampère
> Bediening: Voorzien van het nieuwe Truma CP Plus bedieningspaneel
> Thermostaat: Meegeleverd
> Ventilator: Geïntegreerd
> Verwarmingselement:
> Combi 4 en 6: niet aanwezig
> Combi 4E en 6E: 1800 Watt (2x900 watt)
>
> Opwarmtijd:
> Boiler: +- 20minuten
> Verwarming en boiler: +-80 minuten
>
> Rendement: 97%
> Luchtopbrengst: Maximaal 287m³ per uur
> Maximale waterdruk: 2,8 bar
> Vorstbescherming: Ja, inclusief
> Afmetingen: 510 x 450 x 300 mm (lxbxh)
> Gewicht:
> Combi 4 en 6: 14,5kg
>
> Combi 4E en 6E: 15,6kg
>
> Exclusief: Schoorsteenset en ringverwarming benodigdheden
>
> ----------------------------------------
>
> Sorry for some dutch in the details, but I think, you get the picture ;)
>
> Good luck!
> Daniel
> --
> Daniel Jacobs, No GMC, but an admirer of them .... We'll see what the
> future brings ....
>
> Always remember, the world is full of nice people!
> So, if you can't find one, be one!
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
--
Gene Fisher -- 74-23,77PB/ore/ca
“Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today --- give him a URL and
-------
http://bdub.net/gmcmotorhome.info/
Alternator Protection Cable
http://bdub.net/gmcmotorhome.info/APC.html
 
Thanks Gene,

Yes that is the older type ALDE 3000, now the 3010 and 3020 are the actual types.
Also very reliable. Heater and waterheating in one.
Also standard propane and with additional Electro, 2 heatingstrips, you can choose for one, 1000 watts, the other 2000 watts or combine them to the
max of 3000 watts.
Very coveniant for campsites or circuits with lower amperage.

Daniel
--
Daniel Jacobs, No GMC, but an admirer of them .... We'll see what the future brings ....

Always remember, the world is full of nice people!
So, if you can't find one, be one!
 
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