Steering box centering

If people want better presentation, I know some of us will not do it as we
would be open to criticism .
Should be glad he takes time to do those things.
Jim B like rest of us do not work 8-5 5days a week and were not getting
rich either.

> I have some experience in doing tech video presentations for rallies. All I
> can say is "It ain't as easy as it looks" I have shot, then reshot, and
> sometimes reshot again to get a sequence that comes out the way it needs to
> be.
> I spent many years in a shop setting as a Vocational instructor trying
> to make technical points about certain processes that I found easier to do
> myself, rather than trying to explain it to the un-informed.
> But, watching someone else do something technical is NOT THE SAME as
> actually doing it with your own two hands.
> Doing it in front of a video camera and facing concerns of proper
> camera angles, focus, lighting, AND keeping the nomenclature specific and
> exact is no easy task. Oh, yes I forgot about sound quality when you turn
> away from the camera, too. Easier to wear a microphone that you have to
> manage cords to. I have thousands of dollars worth of cameras, lighting,
> monitors, patch cords, software mixing and editing programs just to do
> this.
> "It ain't as easy as it looks, folks". Cut Jim Bounds a little slack,
> please.
> Jim Hupy
> Salem, Oregon
>

>
> > GMC Motorhome business is so small there is no one that can finance a
> > professional aids.
> > If you feel you can pull it off , then I suggest you do it.
> > In our case, if it was not for our Air Filter parent company, we could
> not
> > tie up funds on lot of the projects we need to invest.
> >

> >
> > > I watched them too, a lot of rambling and more of a commercial for
> those
> > > new intermediate shafts than any real info. Plus he needs a cameraman
> so
> > he
> > > can zoom in on the things he refers to. No doubt there is some value in
> > > his presentations but as a relative newcomer to these TZE's, I find the
> > > presentations hard going. He needs a script/producer/cameraman IMO
> > >
> > > Larry
> > >

> > > > I watched JimB's steering videos both parts 1 and 2 this past week.
> In
> > > part 1 he was calling the output shaft the input shaft and he corrected
> > > > himself a couple of times. He talked about making the pitman arm
> > > parallel with the cover mounting surface when I believe he was wanting
> to
> > > > reference the flat spot on the input shaft.
> > > >
> > > > In part 2 he came back and tried to clarify the position of the input
> > > shaft with the cover mounting surface. Except this time he stated it
> was
> > > > the intermediate shaft's pinch bolt groove that you line up to the
> > cover
> > > mounting surface. This is not correct, it is the flat milled surface
> on
> > > > the input shaft that is to be parallel to the cover mounting surface
> as
> > > shown on page 9-39 of the manual. It would be really nice if the
> pinch
> > > > bolt was the reference point, then you could see at a glance, but the
> > > pinch bolt is at some random angle that does not match to anything when
> > on
> > > > high-point.
> > > >
> > > > I hope he clarifies this before people get this messed up... Or if I
> am
> > > wrong, please advise me and I'll delete this post.
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Larry - Victoria BC -
> > >
> > > 1977 Palm Beach 40,000 miles, PO said everything working but forgot the
> > > word NOT. New Atwood fridge, water heater & furnace. New SS exhaust
> > system,
> > > 6000w Onan, Iota Converter, R134A A/C, New fuel lines & heat exchange
> > hoses
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > GMCnet mailing list
> > > Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Jim Kanomata ASE
> > Applied/GMC, Newark,CA
> > jimk
> > http://www.gmcrvparts.com
> > 1-800-752-7502
> > _______________________________________________
> > GMCnet mailing list
> > Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> >
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>

--
Jim Kanomata ASE
Applied/GMC, Newark,CA
jimk
http://www.gmcrvparts.com
1-800-752-7502
 
This topic has taken an interesting turn... If you want to see what's possible with vehicle-related video, check out Project Binky (Bad Obsession
Motorsport) and Soup Classic Motoring; the first for the protagonists' skills, personalities and humor and the second for an interesting approach to
video production. As Jim H points out, if it were easy everyone would do it. The best channels have Patreon subscribers at 2, 5, and 10 per video at
the minimum. 1000 Patreon supporters at 5 bucks for a video each week is $20K per month. That makes it possible as a full time job - provided you have
the personality and content dialed in. If Hal St Clair were so inclined, that project would be a winner.

I think weekly videos by a skilled and knowledgeable individual (not a company - whose motives would naturally differ) that took viewers through a
single restoration would be compelling if done well. But the product is knowledge and entertainment, not service or parts sales.

--
Bill Van Vlack
'76 Royale; Guemes Island, Washington; Twin bed, full (DS) side bath, Brazilian Redwood counter and settee tops,455, 6KW generator; new owner a/o mid
November 2015.
 
Do I hear an "Amen!" ?
 
Having been "in the business" for nearly 50 years, all I can say (without writing a book) is anybody who hasn't done it has no idea what it takes to do it. Even the Duane Simmons Onan video I did at the Mariposa rally some years ago was a bear to do as it was a spur of the moment, hit and miss, hope-you-get-something-because-there-is-not-another-chance type of thing. And Duane had the vocabulary and presentation skills that made it relatively do-able. Don't ask about post-production. It's a miracle anything came of it at all.
 
 
Toby Maki
73 Glacier 230
Riverside, CA
-----Original Message-----
From:
Sent: Oct 27, 2021 7:57 AM
To:
Subject: [GMCnet] Re: Steering box centering
 
I have some experience in doing tech video presentations for rallies. All I
can say is "It ain't as easy as it looks" I have shot, then reshot, and
sometimes reshot again to get a sequence that comes out the way it needs to
be.
I spent many years in a shop setting as a Vocational instructor trying
to make technical points about certain processes that I found easier to do
myself, rather than trying to explain it to the un-informed.
But, watching someone else do something technical is NOT THE SAME as
actually doing it with your own two hands.
Doing it in front of a video camera and facing concerns of proper
camera angles, focus, lighting, AND keeping the nomenclature specific and
exact is no easy task. Oh, yes I forgot about sound quality when you turn
away from the camera, too. Easier to wear a microphone that you have to
manage cords to. I have thousands of dollars worth of cameras, lighting,
monitors, patch cords, software mixing and editing programs just to do this.
"It ain't as easy as it looks, folks". Cut Jim Bounds a little slack,
please.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Oregon
 

 
> GMC Motorhome business is so small there is no one that can finance a
> professional aids.
> If you feel you can pull it off , then I suggest you do it.
> In our case, if it was not for our Air Filter parent company, we could not
> tie up funds on lot of the projects we need to invest.
>

>
> > I watched them too, a lot of rambling and more of a commercial for those
> > new intermediate shafts than any real info. Plus he needs a cameraman so
> he
> > can zoom in on the things he refers to. No doubt there is some value in
> > his presentations but as a relative newcomer to these TZE's, I find the
> > presentations hard going. He needs a script/producer/cameraman IMO
> >
> > Larry
> >

> > > I watched JimB's steering videos both parts 1 and 2 this past week. In
> > part 1 he was calling the output shaft the input shaft and he corrected
> > > himself a couple of times. He talked about making the pitman arm
> > parallel with the cover mounting surface when I believe he was wanting to
> > > reference the flat spot on the input shaft.
> > >
> > > In part 2 he came back and tried to clarify the position of the input
> > shaft with the cover mounting surface. Except this time he stated it was
> > > the intermediate shaft's pinch bolt groove that you line up to the
> cover
> > mounting surface. This is not correct, it is the flat milled surface on
> > > the input shaft that is to be parallel to the cover mounting surface as
> > shown on page 9-39 of the manual. It would be really nice if the pinch
> > > bolt was the reference point, then you could see at a glance, but the
> > pinch bolt is at some random angle that does not match to anything when
> on
> > > high-point.
> > >
> > > I hope he clarifies this before people get this messed up... Or if I am
> > wrong, please advise me and I'll delete this post.
> >
> >
> > --
> > Larry - Victoria BC -
> >
> > 1977 Palm Beach 40,000 miles, PO said everything working but forgot the
> > word NOT. New Atwood fridge, water heater & furnace. New SS exhaust
> system,
> > 6000w Onan, Iota Converter, R134A A/C, New fuel lines & heat exchange
> hoses
> > _______________________________________________
> > GMCnet mailing list
> > Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> >
>
>
> --
> Jim Kanomata ASE
> Applied/GMC, Newark,CA
> jimk
> http://www.gmcrvparts.com
> 1-800-752-7502
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
 

 
 
I understand it takes some good time and effort to make presentations and videos. I was in business for 40 years and many had to make presentations
for Government bodies and corporate meetings.

If you are marketing yourself as an expert and a teacher, making a presentation to those who look up to you for your knowledge, shouldn't you clearly
present correct information? Otherwise, what's the point of going to the effort in the first place?

Those who are trying to learn will take this information as gospel and end up with a coach that is a handful to steer.

If you know the correct information, is it Ok to just take it as just entertainment and say "good effort". Then just leave it out there.

Just my 2 cents.
--
Bruce Hislop
ON Canada
77PB, 455 Dick P. rebuilt, DynamicEFI EBL EFI & ESC.1 ton front end
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showphoto.php?photo=29001
My Staff says I never listen to them, or something like that
 
  • Like
Reactions: Christo
I assisted Alex Ferrara at GMCMIs while he did his thing and am familiar with the centering procedure. Watching that video I found it more confusing
than clarifying.

This is not attacking JimB, nor a comment on the presentation/video quality. Posting confusing information should be avoided.

Richard
--
'77 Birchaven TZE...777;
'76 Palm Beach under construction;
‘76 Edgemonte waiting its turn
 
> I assisted Alex Ferrara at GMCMIs while he did his thing and am familiar with the centering procedure. Watching that video I found it more
> confusing than clarifying.
>
> This is not attacking JimB, nor a comment on the presentation/video quality. Posting confusing information should be avoided.
>
> Richard

Hopefully these videos will demonstrate that the subject is complex enough to dissuade the average owner from attempting to correct their steering
issues and rather to find a qualified professional. Maybe that was the purpose, but how many of the viewers can find one within the distance they're
willing to drive a coach - especially one with wonky steering?

Imagine how much time and effort it would take to make an instructional video that would truly allow and encourage a brave GMC owner to diagnose and
even fix their own steering issues. But there's a real need for that, since the average front-end mechanic has proven that they can cause more
problems than they solve when they attack the GMCMH.
--
Bill Van Vlack
'76 Royale; Guemes Island, Washington; Twin bed, full (DS) side bath, Brazilian Redwood counter and settee tops,455, 6KW generator; new owner a/o mid
November 2015.
 
If you want better presentation, don't bother looking at these and see if
you'll find better re. our coaches else where.
Think you all should appreciate what they are trying to do and accept it
for what it is.

On Thu, Oct 28, 2021 at 9:21 AM Bill Van Vlack
wrote:

> > I assisted Alex Ferrara at GMCMIs while he did his thing and am familiar
> with the centering procedure. Watching that video I found it more
> > confusing than clarifying.
> >
> > This is not attacking JimB, nor a comment on the presentation/video
> quality. Posting confusing information should be avoided.
> >
> > Richard
>
> Hopefully these videos will demonstrate that the subject is complex enough
> to dissuade the average owner from attempting to correct their steering
> issues and rather to find a qualified professional. Maybe that was the
> purpose, but how many of the viewers can find one within the distance
> they're
> willing to drive a coach - especially one with wonky steering?
>
> Imagine how much time and effort it would take to make an instructional
> video that would truly allow and encourage a brave GMC owner to diagnose and
> even fix their own steering issues. But there's a real need for that,
> since the average front-end mechanic has proven that they can cause more
> problems than they solve when they attack the GMCMH.
> --
> Bill Van Vlack
> '76 Royale; Guemes Island, Washington; Twin bed, full (DS) side bath,
> Brazilian Redwood counter and settee tops,455, 6KW generator; new owner a/o
> mid
> November 2015.
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>

--
Jim Kanomata ASE
Applied/GMC, Newark,CA
jimk
http://www.gmcrvparts.com
1-800-752-7502
 
I just watched Jim Bounds's latest presentation on carbs and distributors and I learned a lot.

So all good

Larry
--
Larry - Victoria BC -

1977 Palm Beach 40,000 miles, PO said everything working but forgot the word NOT. New Atwood fridge, water heater & furnace. New SS exhaust system,
6000w Onan, Iota Converter, R134A A/C, New fuel lines & heat exchange hoses
 
So I'm fighting a back injury right now, and I'm not able to do much. But today I went out to the coach and checked the amount of turns lock to lock.
It looks like about 3-1/4 turns. So, from Jim Hupy, this is not a factory steering box.

Am I screwed here? Does this box have the infamous "high spot" that corresponds with the input shaft flat aligned with the cover axis?

Or are all bets off?

It does require more hand movement than I would like to keep it straight going down the road. I have not yet removed the intermediate shaft to confirm
the position of the input shaft flat, but since the steering wheel is out, I'm pretty sure that everything needs adjustment.
--
Greg Crawford
KM4ZCR
Knoxville, TN

"Ruby Sue"
1977 Royale
Rear Bath
403 Engine
American Eagle Wheels
Early Version Alex Sirum Quad bags
 
The GMC steering box has internal stops that prevent the knuckles from hitting the lower control arm. You should check that your box does that; if it
doesn't it's best to change it. I believe most boxes have the center high spot - or whatever it's called. I don't know whether the stops can be
installed later and you'd have to know where they are placed.
--
Bill Van Vlack
'76 Royale; Guemes Island, Washington; Twin bed, full (DS) side bath, Brazilian Redwood counter and settee tops,455, 6KW generator; new owner a/o mid
November 2015.
 
> So I'm fighting a back injury right now, and I'm not able to do much. But today I went out to the coach and checked the amount of turns lock to
> lock. It looks like about 3-1/4 turns. So, from Jim Hupy, this is not a factory steering box.
>
> Am I screwed here? Does this box have the infamous "high spot" that corresponds with the input shaft flat aligned with the cover axis?
>
> Or are all bets off?
>
> It does require more hand movement than I would like to keep it straight going down the road. I have not yet removed the intermediate shaft to
> confirm the position of the input shaft flat, but since the steering wheel is out, I'm pretty sure that everything needs adjustment.

Before you start ripping everything apart, you can try one simple adjustment. No guarantees that it will make your steering problems go away, but in
my case, it did help - however, Murphy's Law - I didn't try it or find out about it until AFTER I pulled everything apart and attempted to put
everything right.

This is a tip from the GMCINFO site.

With the wheels set straight ahead, loosen and back off the locknut that holds the allen screw in place - this locknut is located on the side of the
steering box. Back it off a couple of turns then back off the allen screw a few turns too.
Next, start tightening up the locknut. As you tighten it, it'll pull the allen screw along with it until the allen screw stops turning. Continue to
tighten the lock nut until it's tight again. Take her for a spin and see if the handling is any better.

This procedure really improved the handling on my coach. A friend later thought my steering wasn't "tight" enough and tightened up the allen screw - I
let him do it because he was an experienced mechanic. It did tighten up the steering, but the coach became impossible to steer over 20mph and even
that required a lot of concentration - basically the coach was unusable. I re-adjusted the allen screw the way I just described and I've been driving
the coach all summer like that. It still ain't rack and pinion precise by any means, but at least I can handle it without sweating bullets.

HTH

Larry

--
Larry - Victoria BC -

1977 Palm Beach 40,000 miles, PO said everything working but forgot the word NOT. New Atwood fridge, water heater & furnace. New SS exhaust system,
6000w Onan, Iota Converter, R134A A/C, New fuel lines & heat exchange hoses
 
Jim, if the information is in error, it should not be presented. Period.
It needs to be redone. It is not correct.

The quality of the presentation continues to get better. Much better than
we had 10 years ago. Things are progressing, but to allow bad information to
propagate should not be tolerated!

Lots of bad info in this thread. I only wish it could be removed rather
than archived.

bdub


-----Original Message-----
From: Jim Kanomata [mailto:jimkanomata]
Sent: Thursday, October 28, 2021 12:43 PM
To: gmclist
Subject: [GMCnet] Re: Steering box centering

If you want better presentation, don't bother looking at these and see if
you'll find better re. our coaches else where.
Think you all should appreciate what they are trying to do and accept it
for what it is.
 
Ken : Thanks for that article. If that is the definitive guide for steering boxes, then I do have the right box! It is about 3-1/3 turns lock to lock.
I will confirm that the knuckles do not contact the control arms. I feel much better about this, for now, anyway!
--
Greg Crawford
KM4ZCR
Knoxville, TN

"Ruby Sue"
1977 Royale
Rear Bath
403 Engine
American Eagle Wheels
Early Version Alex Sirum Quad bags
 
Here's a pretty good write-up of what the two steering box adjustments do....

http://

Until I read that, I didn't realize that the steering box gear is designed with more lash when turning right or left vs straight ahead. Too tight, and
the lash is taken out when steering right or left, making it harder to steer; too loose and the coach wanders when steering straight ahead.

When I thought a little more about it I realized that the lash when steering right or left is not an issue (if you have enough caster once you stop
moving the steering wheel) since you are pushing against one side of the gear while steering towards or holding the curve of the road. If the steering
is not centered, when you steer straight ahead you are really in the part of the gearing that has more lash - until you steer towards the center of
the box when you reach the part that has less lash.

OK you experts! Did I get that right - or even close!?
--
Bill Van Vlack
'76 Royale; Guemes Island, Washington; Twin bed, full (DS) side bath, Brazilian Redwood counter and settee tops,455, 6KW generator; new owner a/o mid
November 2015.
 
Not an Expert, but you are correct.

On Fri, Oct 29, 2021 at 9:36 AM Bill Van Vlack
wrote:

> Here's a pretty good write-up of what the two steering box adjustments
> do....
>
> http://
>
> Until I read that, I didn't realize that the steering box gear is designed
> with more lash when turning right or left vs straight ahead. Too tight, and
> the lash is taken out when steering right or left, making it harder to
> steer; too loose and the coach wanders when steering straight ahead.
>
> When I thought a little more about it I realized that the lash when
> steering right or left is not an issue (if you have enough caster once you
> stop
> moving the steering wheel) since you are pushing against one side of the
> gear while steering towards or holding the curve of the road. If the
> steering
> is not centered, when you steer straight ahead you are really in the part
> of the gearing that has more lash - until you steer towards the center of
> the box when you reach the part that has less lash.
>
> OK you experts! Did I get that right - or even close!?
> --
> Bill Van Vlack
> '76 Royale; Guemes Island, Washington; Twin bed, full (DS) side bath,
> Brazilian Redwood counter and settee tops,455, 6KW generator; new owner a/o
> mid
> November 2015.
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>

--
Jim Kanomata ASE
Applied/GMC, Newark,CA
jimk
http://www.gmcrvparts.com
1-800-752-7502
 
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