Start generator from house batteries up front?

[billvv]

I have to replace my buzzbox located in the cabinet between the rear twin beds with a new smart converter/charger because the buzzbox charging circuit
failed (and because even if it worked it's not good for the batteries. It is connected to the house batteries by a #8 wire down to a connection point
under the generator which then connects to two #2 wires, one to the house battery diode connection and one to the generator. With the buzzbox charger
out of the circuit, the engine alternator was charging all three systems; house batteries (2-12V in parallel), the engine battery, and the generator
battery.

If I leave the wiring as is, the generator battery can draw down the generator battery and vice versa, so I'd separate them with a combiner. Also
looks like I need to add circuit protection at the new charger end, and perhaps at the house battery end of the #2 wire running under the coach.

Instead of that, is it possible to simply use the house batteries to start the generator and eliminate the generator battery?

--
Bill Van Vlack
'76 Royale; Guemes Island, Washington; Twin bed, full (DS) side bath, Brazilian Redwood counter and settee tops,455, 6KW generator; new owner a/o mid
November 2015; Since arrival: New HVAC blower, heat flap cable, headlight switch.

 

[mike kilroy]

I eliminated rear generator batt years ago and never looked back. single 12v deep dischaarge house batt up front cranks gen full speed 2 min straight if I want. so yes, you can.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Van Vlack"
To: gmclist
Sent: Tuesday, November 1, 2016 8:11:51 PM
Subject: [GMCnet] Start generator from house batteries up front?
....

Instead of that, is it possible to simply use the house batteries to start the generator and eliminate the generator battery?

--
Bill Van Vlack
'76 Royale; Guemes Island, Washington; Twin bed, full (DS) side bath, Brazilian Redwood counter and settee tops,455, 6KW generator; new owner a/o mid
November 2015; Since arrival: New HVAC blower, heat flap cable, headlight switch.

_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org

 

[bdub1]

That's what most of us do. You can disable the Onan regulator as well.

>
> Instead of that, is it possible to simply use the house batteries to start
> the generator and eliminate the generator battery?
>
>

 

[billvv]

Great to hear! I did some voltage drop calcs for the CCA of a 2-cyl motor and they indicated the #2 wire would work, but it's always best to hear from
those that actually did it. Thanks!
--
Bill Van Vlack
'76 Royale; Guemes Island, Washington; Twin bed, full (DS) side bath, Brazilian Redwood counter and settee tops,455, 6KW generator; new owner a/o mid
November 2015; Since arrival: New HVAC blower, heat flap cable, headlight switch.

 

[terry1]

You should make sure that the starting current for the generator can not get drawn through the isolator when the engine is running, it will probably
smoke the diode in the isolator.
--
Terry Kelpien

ASE Master Technician

73 Glacier 260

Smithfield, Va.

 

[billvv]

> You should make sure that the starting current for the generator can not get drawn through the isolator when the engine is running, it will
> probably smoke the diode in the isolator.

At first glance, the Blue Sea ACR should survive.
--
Bill Van Vlack
'76 Royale; Guemes Island, Washington; Twin bed, full (DS) side bath, Brazilian Redwood counter and settee tops,455, 6KW generator; new owner a/o mid
November 2015; Since arrival: New HVAC blower, heat flap cable, headlight switch.

 

[billvv]

Researched the Blue Sea APC a little more.... The 120A 7610 has a feature that opens the APC when starting engine, via a wire from the starter to the
APC.

It sounds like eliminating the Generator battery is workable.... Any more thoughts one way or the other?
--
Bill Van Vlack
'76 Royale; Guemes Island, Washington; Twin bed, full (DS) side bath, Brazilian Redwood counter and settee tops,455, 6KW generator; new owner a/o mid
November 2015; Since arrival: New HVAC blower, heat flap cable, headlight switch.

 

[Matt Colie]

> Researched the Blue Sea APC a little more.... The 120A 7610 has a feature that opens the APC when starting engine, via a wire from the starter to
> the APC. That model also prevents battery combining when one battery voltage is less or equal to 9.5V to protect the APC from high currents.
>
> It sounds like eliminating the Generator battery is workable.... Any more thoughts one way or the other?

Bill,

I do have one concern that may be an issue. I have not yet measured the cranking current for a cold NH Onan. This is largely because I don't have an
NH Onan handy. but the drag-down from a front engine battery is very likely to be a problem for the already marginal ignition. I have a 23 that has
a APU start battery in the rear and the difference that the prime circuit made was notable. In your case, that notable might swing to remarkable.

Actually, while it is a moderate PITA, I kind of like the redundancy of an isolated battery back there. Now, if I could set the old BF up with a
crank start....

Matt

--
Matt & Mary Colie - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
'73 Glacier 23 - Still Loving OE Rear Drum Brake with Applied Control Arms
Now with both true Keyless and remote entry
SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit

 

[Ken H.]

Matt,

My 23' has always had only front batteries. The 2g (or maybe 1-0g) OEM
cable is quite adequate to provide the necessary starter current.

Ken H.

> I do have one concern that may be an issue. I have not yet measured the
> cranking current for a cold NH Onan. This is largely because I don't have
> an
> NH Onan handy. but the drag-down from a front engine battery is very
> likely to be a problem for the already marginal ignition. I have a 23 that
> has
> a APU start battery in the rear and the difference that the prime circuit
> made was notable. In your case, that notable might swing to remarkable.
>
> Actually, while it is a moderate PITA, I kind of like the redundancy of an
> isolated battery back there. Now, if I could set the old BF up with a
> crank start....
>

 

[Matt Colie]

> Matt,
>
> My 23' has always had only front batteries. The 2g (or maybe 1-0g) OEM
> cable is quite adequate to provide the necessary starter current.
>
> Ken H.

Ken,

How long did you keep the Onan? I know it is not there now.
The cranking current won't be all that high, but the Onan ignition is weak.
Maybe I'll actually measure the cranking current of my BF today.

Matt
--
Matt & Mary Colie - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
'73 Glacier 23 - Still Loving OE Rear Drum Brake with Applied Control Arms
Now with both true Keyless and remote entry
SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit

 

[Jim Hupy]

That Onan, properly operated and maintained, should outlast both of us.
Jim Hupy

> > Matt,
> >
> > My 23' has always had only front batteries. The 2g (or maybe 1-0g) OEM
> > cable is quite adequate to provide the necessary starter current.
> >
> > Ken H.
>
> Ken,
>
> How long did you keep the Onan? I know it is not there now.
> The cranking current won't be all that high, but the Onan ignition is weak.
> Maybe I'll actually measure the cranking current of my BF today.
>
> Matt
> --
> Matt & Mary Colie - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
> '73 Glacier 23 - Still Loving OE Rear Drum Brake with Applied Control Arms
> Now with both true Keyless and remote entry
> SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>

 

[Ken H.]

Matt,

I had the Onan for 8-10 years before tiring of always having something I
could fix. Starting was never a problem -- long term running in high
temperatures was.

If the "Onan ignition is weak", you must not have Lawrence Gaskin's
Pertronix mod.

Ken H.

> > Matt,
> >
> > My 23' has always had only front batteries. The 2g (or maybe 1-0g) OEM
> > cable is quite adequate to provide the necessary starter current.
> >
> > Ken H.
>
> Ken,
>
> How long did you keep the Onan? I know it is not there now.
> The cranking current won't be all that high, but the Onan ignition is weak.
> Maybe I'll actually measure the cranking current of my BF today.
>
> Matt
> --
> Matt & Mary Colie - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
> '73 Glacier 23 - Still Loving OE Rear Drum Brake with Applied Control Arms
> Now with both true Keyless and remote entry
> SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>

 

[kosier]

Matt,

I've got a lot of idle time that I can't do anything with, so my imagination
kind of runs wild. So, here goes...........
How about if you remove the bolt that holds the flywheel on and replace it
with a longer stud and nut. Then, in the exposed end of the stud,
drill a hole crossways. Put a hard steel pin through the hole. Next,
holesaw the front cover in line with the stud. Now, make a PROPER
starting crank to insert through the hole. Note I said PROPER starting
crank, which is one that will NOT allow the Onan to start and spin
the hand crank, thus destroying your hands and/or arms. How's that for a
Rube Goldberg idea?

Gary Kosier

> Actually, while it is a moderate PITA, I kind of like the redundancy of an
> isolated battery back there. Now, if I could set the old BF up with a
> crank start....
>
> Matt
>
> --
> Matt & Mary Colie - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
> '73 Glacier 23 - Still Loving OE Rear Drum Brake with Applied Control Arms
> Now with both true Keyless and remote entry
> SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org

 

[Matt Colie]

> Matt,
>
> I've got a lot of idle time that I can't do anything with, so my imagination
> kind of runs wild. So, here goes...........
> How about if you remove the bolt that holds the flywheel on and replace it
> with a longer stud and nut. Then, in the exposed end of the stud,
> drill a hole crossways. Put a hard steel pin through the hole. Next,
> holesaw the front cover in line with the stud. Now, make a PROPER
> starting crank to insert through the hole. Note I said PROPER starting
> crank, which is one that will NOT allow the Onan to start and spin
> the hand crank, thus destroying your hands and/or arms. How's that for a
> Rube Goldberg idea?
>
> Gary Kosier

I have other thought to make a hole though the airbox front and the front plate so I could put a 1/2" ratchet and a socket on it. The engine has such
low compression that I could probably fire it that way. But what scares me is the number of broken flywheels from over tightening that fastener.....

Matt
--
Matt & Mary Colie - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
'73 Glacier 23 - Still Loving OE Rear Drum Brake with Applied Control Arms
Now with both true Keyless and remote entry
SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit

 

[charles boyd]

Gary, my original Generac in the Crestmont has a notched pulley bolted to the flywheel for a rope start.
--
C. Boyd
76 Crestmont
East Tennessee

 

[a.]

> Gary, my original Generac in the Crestmont has a notched pulley bolted to the flywheel for a rope start.
I haven't had one apart enough to know the answer to this so maybe someone here can say. What keeps someone from bolting a notched pulley on the front
of the Onan flywheel so it can be started with a rope?
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/data/3608/608_p6795.jpg
--
73 23' Sequoia 4 Sale
73 23' CanyonLands Parts Unit 4 Sale
Upper Alabama
"Highest price does not guarantee highest quality."

 

[billvv]

> > Gary, my original Generac in the Crestmont has a notched pulley bolted to the flywheel for a rope start.
> I haven't had one apart enough to know the answer to this so maybe someone here can say. What keeps someone from bolting a notched pulley on the
> front of the Onan flywheel so it can be started with a rope?


But can you start it from the front of the coach?!

--
Bill Van Vlack
'76 Royale; Guemes Island, Washington; Twin bed, full (DS) side bath, Brazilian Redwood counter and settee tops,455, 6KW generator; new owner a/o mid
November 2015; Since arrival: New HVAC blower, heat flap cable, headlight switch.

 

[Ken B]

Sure. You just need a long rope and a bunch of pulleys.
--
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana

 

[billvv]

Now you're just pulling my chain.
--
Bill Van Vlack
'76 Royale; Guemes Island, Washington; Twin bed, full (DS) side bath, Brazilian Redwood counter and settee tops,455, 6KW generator; new owner a/o mid
November 2015; Since arrival: New HVAC blower, heat flap cable, headlight switch.

 

[Ken B]

I never thought about using a chain. I think a rope would be better.
--
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana