Sidewall flex, intermediate axle/rear axle

- ----- Original Message -----
From: Henry Davis
To:
Sent: Sunday, November 14, 1999 3:38 AM
Subject: Re: GMC: Sidewall flex, intermediate axle/rear axle
>
> Because of several questions that I have about my own tires, I've been
> talking with Goodyear's Chief Engineer for materials, the QA engineer for
> light truck tires, and the North Western regional manager.
>
Hello Henry,

So have I been talking to GY engineers. The info I got don't agree with
what they told you. The statement that underinflation is the cause of
failure is not correct either. They, after several weeks told me they were
very familiar with the GMC and the answer was overloading tires. In general,
what they told you was self serving (to them) and lacks credibility. Also,
there are a lot of tire failures do to manufacturing defects, the number is
not vanishingly small. Tires are not micro-chips. I had access to test
data for tires in the past and there were tire brands and tire lines that
had huge failure rates in relation to others. One of the biggest factors
that the data I had showed was that the manufacturing process was an
important factor to predict reliability and durability. Since manufacturing
techniques have not changed significantly since my data was current, I doubt
that much has changed there. Did you discuss with the Goodyear folk tire
manufacturing techniques? If not, you will find there is a dividing line
between the all steel and the rest of the tires we use (Load D & non-steel
E). The all steel use a technique that places the body plies more
accurately, which should give them more strength and fewer manufacturing
defects that can cause problems. Could this be another reason why all steel
are better? I think its an important part of the puzzle. walter bright, 76
GB
 
>Henry even you are overlooking potentially important information when you
>say "The information that was collected is interesting, but ignores
>(rightfully)the primary reported reason for premature tire failure -
>underinflation". If we are talking about the GMC motorhome that are other
>factors that may be just as prevalent. How many GMC coaches have toads
>attached to the rear? Every time you stop that several thousand pounds is
>transferred to the mid axel (it carries more of the braking in the rear) and
>thus overloads the mid axel tires.

Actually most of the toad load is transferred to all tires and distributed
according to the fraction of the coach weight borne by the individual tires
(counting the tongue weight). Providing that normal hitch weight fractions
are followed, 10% of the toad's weight is transferd statically to the coach
at the hitch attachment points. Depending on where this is, it will shift
the coach's center of mass aft. Assuming that the hitch neither rises nor
dives during the stop, the load is transfered according to the static case
during braking. I believe that when stopping the main issue is the extra
load placed on the brake surfaces and not the tire. FWIW, the load is
transferred from the toad to the tires up to the limit of adhesion for the
tire. Then the transfer stops and the tires skid, but they get no more
load. So, even when towing a 5,000 lb car the coach tires won't get any
more load than the worst case "panic" stop experiecned by the coach when
not towing. Granted, the loads last longer when towing but the magnitude of
loading is the same. There si the issue of how fast you can stop when
pulling a toad.

> Furthermore in the Cinnabar study on the
>causes of tire failure, overloading of the coach was found in as many cases
>as under inflation of the tires.

It doesn't surprise me since the payload capacity of my Palm Beach when
carrying a full gas tank and fresh water tank provides a few hundred pounds
capacity once driver and passengers are aboard. So, Cinnabar would have to
report many situations as overloaded just based on the curb weight plus
passengers.

Just some more food for thought. We are
>asking the GMC motorhome to do things it was not designed to do.

Now that's a fact.

FWIW, if you read the manufacturer's specs for many new pickups, you really
can't tow much of anything - and some trucks sold specifically to carry
slide in campers aren't rated to carry the shell when you look at the axle
specs. Sometimes I think that the specs are there to provide the auto
companies with wiggle room in case of lawsuit.

Henry

Henry Davis Consulting, Inc / new product consulting
PO Box 1270 / product readiness reviews
Soquel, Ca 95073 / IP reviews
ph: (831) 462-5199 / full service marketing
fax: (831) 462-5198
http://www.henry-davis.com/ http://www.henry-davis.com
 
Thanks, John and Emery.

Good data once I got the URL right.

And Gary, sorry I was harsh. It was late and I was pooped and a wee bit buzzed.

Dave (& Dege), '76 Royale, Santa Barbara, CA
 
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: Henry Davis
>To:
>Sent: Sunday, November 14, 1999 3:38 AM
>Subject: Re: GMC: Sidewall flex, intermediate axle/rear axle
> >
> > Because of several questions that I have about my own tires, I've been
>> talking with Goodyear's Chief Engineer for materials, the QA engineer for
>> light truck tires, and the North Western regional manager.
>>
>Hello Henry,
>
> So have I been talking to GY engineers. The info I got don't agree with
>what they told you. The statement that underinflation is the cause of
>failure is not correct either. They, after several weeks told me they were
>very familiar with the GMC and the answer was overloading tires. In general,
>what they told you was self serving (to them) and lacks credibility.

Ok. You guys win. Count me out on future tire and rear suspension threads.

Henry

Henry Davis Consulting, Inc / new product consulting
PO Box 1270 / product readiness reviews
Soquel, Ca 95073 / IP reviews
ph: (831) 462-5199 / full service marketing
fax: (831) 462-5198
http://www.henry-davis.com/ http://www.henry-davis.com
 
After a long and very technical dissertation about the "bouncing
of tires", Henry Davis wrote the following:

>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-gmcmotorhome
>[mailto:owner-gmcmotorhome]On Behalf
>Of Henry Davis
>Sent: Saturday, November 13, 1999 11:03 PM
>To: gmcmotorhome
>Subject: Re: GMC: Sidewall flex, intermediate axle/rear axle
.....................
................................
>I used to be an engineer once upon a time but no longer
>claim that title.

>Henry Davis Consulting, Inc / new product consulting
>PO Box 1270 / product readiness reviews
>Soquel, Ca 95073 / IP reviews
>ph: (831) 462-5199 / full service marketing
>fax: (831) 462-5198
>http://www.henry-davis.com/ http://www.henry-davis.com

Henry,

Your post is hilarious! NOBODY will believe that you can no
longer claim that title.

Scott Shean
Baton Rouge, LA
78 Royale