Rusted Frame.."Cut and Paste"?...Nightmayers :-0

bdub

bdub

Well-known member
Aug 31, 1998
3,227
420
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74
Lake Brownwood, Texas
www.bdub.net
I think you worry too much Rick. I don't imagine there's anything really
exotic about the steel frame of the GMC. If you find a section of frame
that you can use, you'd only need to put a overlapping plate over both
sections and stich weld it to both.

I never heard of a GMC turning loose of the whole bogie system at once. I
imagine it would let you know it was sick before departing like that.

Have a beer man.

> What about buying a frame (assuming it is good) from a salvaged GMC and
>replacing the back 'ladder' only since my front seems OK..
>
> How weak or strong would the joining section be? How would one propose
>to 'splice' the two sections? Anyone know of any metalurgical differences
>from year to year that would mean joining dis-similar alloys?
>
> Also, has any one ever actually seen or heard of rusted frames letting
>go of bogie assembies on the road? Or would they tend to stay together
>because of the interconnectedness of the whole coach.
>
> I have this vision of feeling a 'thump' followed by a scraping sound
>and looking out the drivers side window only to see my bogie passing me :-0
>on the left!!!!!

bdub
'76 Palm Beach
In The Heart o Texas
www.web-access.net/~bmassey/
icq # 202333
 
> What about buying a frame (assuming it is good) from a salvaged GMC and
>replacing the back 'ladder' only since my front seems OK..
>
> How weak or strong would the joining section be? How would one propose
>to 'splice' the two sections? Anyone know of any metalurgical differences
>from year to year that would mean joining dis-similar alloys?

There are folks who stretch GMCs with pieces form other GMCs, so I can't
see why it wouldn't work.

Somewhere I have the actual alloy specified for the frame. My recollection
is that the alloy was the same thoughout the life of the production. Also,
since it was evidently common for GM to build most of a coach in one year
and finish it later, the year designations don't necessarily mean a whole lot.

If there are minor alloy differences there should be no problem in welding.

Scott Nehoda's advice about checking the whole frame is worth its weight in
gold. If you have frame rot in one place, it's very much worth while
spending extra time evaluating the rest of the frame very carefully.

Henry

Henry Davis Consulting, Inc / new product consulting
PO Box 1270 / product readiness reviews
Soquel, Ca 95073 / IP reviews
ph: (831) 462-5199 / full service marketing
fax: (831) 462-5198
http://www.henry-davis.com/ http://www.henry-davis.com
 
Its not that easy to weld the frame on the coach. Have you ever tried it?
It can't be overlapped anywhere near the bogies since the dimensions there
are very critical. How would you weld anywhere is the bogie sub-frame area
since you cannot get to the inside of the frame? Weld to the outside and the
bogies cannot be reinstalled without throwing everything out of alignment.
Weld to the inside and the bogie frame will not fit.

>I think you worry too much Rick. I don't imagine there's anything really
>exotic about the steel frame of the GMC. If you find a section of frame
>that you can use, you'd only need to put a overlapping plate over both
>sections and stich weld it to both.
>
>I never heard of a GMC turning loose of the whole bogie system at once. I
>imagine it would let you know it was sick before departing like that.
>
>Have a beer man.
>
>
>
>

>> What about buying a frame (assuming it is good) from a salvaged GMC and
>>replacing the back 'ladder' only since my front seems OK..
>>
>> How weak or strong would the joining section be? How would one propose
>>to 'splice' the two sections? Anyone know of any metalurgical differences
>>from year to year that would mean joining dis-similar alloys?
>>
>> Also, has any one ever actually seen or heard of rusted frames letting
>>go of bogie assembies on the road? Or would they tend to stay together
>>because of the interconnectedness of the whole coach.
>>
>> I have this vision of feeling a 'thump' followed by a scraping sound
>>and looking out the drivers side window only to see my bogie passing me :-0
>>on the left!!!!!
>
>
>bdub
>'76 Palm Beach
>In The Heart o Texas
>www.web-access.net/~bmassey/
>icq # 202333
>
>
Tom & Marg Warner
Vernon Center NY
1976 palmbeach
 
No problemo, Tom!

Just don't do your splicing in this area. If the bogie section has to be
replaced, do the whole thing far enough out on either end to be able to do
it properly.

bdub

>Its not that easy to weld the frame on the coach. Have you ever tried it?
>It can't be overlapped anywhere near the bogies since the dimensions there
>are very critical. How would you weld anywhere is the bogie sub-frame area
>since you cannot get to the inside of the frame? Weld to the outside and the
>bogies cannot be reinstalled without throwing everything out of alignment.
>Weld to the inside and the bogie frame will not fit.
 
No problemo, Tom!

Just don't do your splicing in this area. If the bogie section has to be
replaced, do the whole thing far enough out on either end to be able to do
it properly.

bdub

>Its not that easy to weld the frame on the coach. Have you ever tried it?
>It can't be overlapped anywhere near the bogies since the dimensions there
>are very critical. How would you weld anywhere is the bogie sub-frame area
>since you cannot get to the inside of the frame? Weld to the outside and the
>bogies cannot be reinstalled without throwing everything out of alignment.
>Weld to the inside and the bogie frame will not fit.
 
Billy:

I too think it's easier said than done and not the smart way to do it.
Anywhere you have the rear subframe and frame sandwiched together, cutting
out bad material on one or the other can't help but impact the other, let
alone welding in new material. Alignment of the pieces would be critical.
Who wants a patched frame?? Not me!

Paul Bartz

From: Billy Massey [mailto:bdub]
Sent: Friday, April 16, 1999 9:19 AM
Subject: Re: GMC: Rusted Frame.."Cut and Paste"?...Nightmayers :-0

No problemo, Tom!

Just don't do your splicing in this area. If the bogie section has to be
replaced, do the whole thing far enough out on either end to be able to do
it properly.

Its not that easy to weld the frame on the coach. Have you ever tried it?
It can't be overlapped anywhere near the bogies since the dimensions there
are very critical. How would you weld anywhere is the bogie sub-frame area
since you cannot get to the inside of the frame? Weld to the outside and the
bogies cannot be reinstalled without throwing everything out of alignment.
Weld to the inside and the bogie frame will not fit.
 
Of course it's easier said than done, Paul. I can sit here in this chair
and build a whole new coach, but when I go outside and crawl underneath it,
well now, that's a different story. I never claimed to be no Einstien either.

I sure don't think that where the 2 frames (bogie and chassis) are
overlapping would be a place to consider splicing it.

As far as alignment, I covered that in my very first post on the subject a
few days ago. Here's a copy to bring you up to speed.
__________________________________________
hahaha :-) Your right of coarse. Trouble is, I ain't got no problem with
a rusty frame and don't have any experiance fixin it. If I did though
(here goes nutin') I'd do sorta like Scott Nehoda did. I'd find a local
fabricator and get him to shear and break me the steel to replace the
rusted sections of frame. I'd probably get a long piece of 6" or 8" H-beam
to slide under the existing frame and weld registers (1/4" x 4" x 4" angle
iron x 6" or 8" or so) to it and to the frame to hold the frame from moving
while I got rid of the cancerous portion. I'd then weld in the replacement
section exactly where the old one was removed from. I'd also use scab
plates over the weld joint and be sure not to make a continuous weld all
the way across the new frame. I'd use ASME7018 welding rod and be sure
that the steel was mild 60k# tensile A36.

I'd do all the welding before I cut the frame off the H-beam. This ain't
no job for a weak stomach. Be sure and have a fully qualified welder do
the work. Steel does strange things when locally heated to 5000 degrees,
and you gotta be ready and allow or it.

Like I said, I haven't been there and hope I never do, but I think this is
what I'd do.

Hope it helps.

>GMCers
>Maybe Glenn has stumbled on something here...and I'm not
>suggesting the stumble is from big feet......What is the 'Real"
>purpose of this information venue.
>
>We end up discussing porno, which is -everywhere- and there isn't
>a damn thing we can do about it, when we should be discussing
>GMC's which are -few and far between-, and there IS something we
>can do about Them !
>
>Priorities, me thinks. A man in trouble is a man in need of the
>GMCnetters. A man with Frame Rust is a man in serious
>excrement !
>Just my .02 worth (actually .03 with exchange)
>
>Mike Beaton
>NS
>
>
>
>
>> Rick and Suzette,
>>
>> Don't despair. You're not alone.
>>
>>
 
>
> I spent $ 350.00 for the steel and fabrication of my frame
> rails, the price also included the plates I installed inside
> my bogie frame. I drilled all the holes.

Not too bad when you consider that Dan Stuckey gets $1700(US) plus
shipping(from Canada) for a set already drilled, epoxy primed and painted.
I imagine that you would have close to $2K in the rails by the time you
could lay hands on them. BTW, Dan has his rails made out of 3/16 sheet
instead of 1/8. A slight weight penalty(60lbs), but higher strength -
just remember the inside dimension is critical; not the outside.

Patrick
 
Thats a lot of markup if you can make them for $350 and others are selling
the frame rails for $1500 and up.

>
>Dearest GMCERS:
>
>I spent $ 350.00 for the steel and fabrication of my frame rails, the price
>also included the plates I installed inside my bogie frame. I drilled all
>the holes.
>Adohen Scott
>Nehoda (Odds and Ends site)
> , NEHODA'S BACK
>YARD
>
>
>
Tom & Marg Warner
Vernon Center NY
1976 palmbeach
 
God Bless you for blazing the trail here Scott. Several quick questions if
you don't mind.




Scott, who did you find who had the 20 foot brake? Do you have to
specify material characteristics like tensile strenght, etc.? What
tolerances do the measurements have to be to? What does a rail weigh? I am
guessing the 16'8" part at about 150 Seem about right? Thanks, walter
bright, 76 GB.


I drilled all
the holes.
Adohen
Scott
Nehoda (Odds and Ends site)
, NEHODA'S
BACK
YARD
 
>
> In a message dated 4/16/99 6:42:52 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

>
> > BTW, Dan has his rails made out of 3/16 sheet
> > instead of 1/8. A slight weight penalty(60lbs), but higher strength -
> > just remember the inside dimension is critical; not the outside.
>
>
> I had mine fabricated with 3/16 and they weigh more than the 1/8, higher
> strength? thicker doesn't necessarly mean higher strength---if Dan has them
> fabricated out of A-36, they are not stronger, just thicker and has the
> property of rusting faster.

Heh, I probably should have said that "he claims they're stronger".

> The inside dimension is the critical dimension.
> Maybe Dan can tell what steel he uses or maybe somebody knows?

I've got one of his flyers he passed out at Marion. Don't think the
steel spec is on there, but I'll look.

Patrick
- --
Patrick Flowers
Mailto:patrick

The GMC Motorhome Page
http://www.gmcmotorhome.com
 
- -snip-
>
>Stupid are those that don't spend at least 2 hours inspecting the frame :(
>me!

Under-informed maybe. Stupid, never!

OTOH, we ll have to be a little nuts to own a GMC. (on other days I think
I'[d have to be nuts NOT to own one).

Henry
Henry Davis Consulting, Inc / new product consulting
PO Box 1270 / product readiness reviews
Soquel, Ca 95073 / IP reviews
ph: (831) 462-5199 / full service marketing
fax: (831) 462-5198
http://www.henry-davis.com/ http://www.henry-davis.com
 
Scott tell you a secret. Most of the people that drive the GMC's and have
someone else repair it wouldn't know a bad frame if it fell on them. and
thats not a put down, just the truth. Even some knowledgable GMcers can't
tell a bad frame from a good one either. the only way I found out was by
luck. Was on vacation in Titusville Florida in January 1998 and as we were
driving past the municipal camp ground noticed a GMc parked there. Made a
mental note to stop and check it out on the way back from the flea market.
Was lucky enough to find a swarm of GMcs there from the Great Lakers. Talk
about luck. several of them showed me exactly what to look for, and how to
fix and check for much more. Wonderful and experienced travelers. Problem
was I had already bought the coach 2 weeks before.

>In a message dated 4/16/99 11:32:57 AM Eastern Daylight Time, warner
>writes:
>> Thats a lot of markup if you can make them for $350 and others are selling
>> the frame rails for $1500 and up
>
>Hi Tom!
>
>I think that was the reason and motivation behind doing it myself! My frame
>rails are 3/16" instead of the 1/8 ". The $350. dollars also included the 2
>- 1/4 inch x 88 x 5 5/16 plates I had made to fit in my bogie frame. IIRC
>those plates were $30.00 so the rails were $320.00. Don't forget though that
>I had to locate and drill the holes, etch primer and paint.
>
>I think the price I was quoted for both rails was $1500 plus the cost of
>shipping from MI. A used bogie from FL. was $450 plus shipping.
>
>If I knew what I know now I would have offered $6,000 less. Shame on those
>people that sell there motorhomes for good dollars knowing they have a rotten
>frame.
>
>Stupid are those that don't spend at least 2 hours inspecting the frame :(
>me!
>
>Scott NEHODA'S
>BACK YARD
>
>
>
>
>
Tom & Marg Warner
Vernon Center NY
1976 palmbeach
 
Scott I can tell you there is absolutely no substitute for experience.
thats why I love to go to the GMC rallys. always lots of prople there that
have been there, done that. Much easier to have someone show us how to do
it. Didn't say my frame was not rusted. Still have not checked everything
out yet. front of the coach still has the original paint on the frame. Hope
the bogie area is OK.

>In a message dated 4/16/99 11:55:19 PM Eastern Daylight Time, warner
>writes:
>
>> Problem
>> was I had already bought the coach 2 weeks before.
>
>You seem to be finding out about things alot sooner than me and are alot
>luckier. It took me 2 months before I found my rotten frame without any help
>from the Greatlakers!
>
>Scott
>
>
Tom & Marg Warner
Vernon Center NY
1976 palmbeach
 
>In a message dated 4/16/99 8:54:36 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

>
>> Under-informed maybe. Stupid, never!
>
>Thanks Henry for trying to let me down gently and then build me up!

I figure anybody who can successfully take on a GMC rail replacement by
building his own rails probably eats nails for breakfast and has RhinoHide
pickup bed liner for skin ;>

Actually, your experience with building new rails gave me a lot of hope
that I can keep my coach running for many years. I hope we all see your
coach rolling down the road with its brand new, better-than-original,
Nehoda Rails(tm) real soon!

Best,

Henry
Henry Davis Consulting, Inc / new product consulting
PO Box 1270 / product readiness reviews
Soquel, Ca 95073 / IP reviews
ph: (831) 462-5199 / full service marketing
fax: (831) 462-5198
http://www.henry-davis.com/ http://www.henry-davis.com
 
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