ride height

G

gworobec

New member
Dec 28, 2005
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Hi, Has anyone done any experimenting on front ride height on a 23'. I understand that the front of the coach is higher than the back according to factory specs but it looks dopy. Is there any combination of caster and camber that might allow the front and rear to be the same height and still get good handling. I'm getting ready for these adjustments as the 3/4 ton front end install nears completion.

Thanks

Gary and Joanne Worobec
1973 GMC Glacier
Anza, CA
 
> Hi, Has anyone done any experimenting on front ride height on a 23'. I understand that the front of the coach is higher than the back according to factory specs but it looks dopy. ...


From how I understand it, the front ride height comes from the need to get the CV joints at the correct angle... or the axles just about level.

The rear height is to get better caster angles on the front. If you use the "book" specs on both the 23 foot and the 26 foot, a 23 foot seems like it would be at a larger angle.... ie: the same drop over a shorter distance.

My '78 is lower than spec in the front... I like the look and it drives OK but I do wonder about the increased angles on the CV joints.


--
Mike Miller -- Hillsboro, OR -- on the Black list
(#1)'73 26' exPainted D. -- (#2)`78 23' Birchaven Rear Bath -- (#3)`77 23' Birchaven Side Bath
http://m000035.blogspot.com
 
maybe someone else can confirm this but i would think that if you put offset bushings on the upper control arm you get much more caster that may allow you to raise the rear end.

--
Fred V
'77 Royale RB 455
P'cola, Fl
 
>
>
> maybe someone else can confirm this but i would think that if you put offset bushings on the upper control arm you get much more caster that may allow you to raise the rear end.
>
> --
> Fred V
> '77 Royale RB 455
> P'cola, Fl

Fred

Its not only the caster but it is the orientation of the axles with the CV joints.

With the ride height properly set the axles are essentially horizontal. This means when they turn the CV joints are approximately in a straight line.
if you raise the rear end it usually transfers more weight to the front end and that can cause the axles to be flexed which means that the CV joints are now "wobbling" with each rotation. This causes more wear on the CV joints.

Emery Stora
77 Kingsley
Santa Fe, NM
 
Gary,

I agree with Mike vis-à-vis the CV joint alignment. When I picked up Double
Trouble from Ken Frey he told me the same thing and he's been "playing" with
Toronados and GMC's twice forever!

As noted a few times before here the best way to get good handling on a '26
is to set the front end at:

Camber: 0°
Caster: as much as you can get
Toe in/out: 0

To get the max caster run the rear adjuster so that the bolt is as close to
the frame as possible and lock it down to 90 ft lbs torque.

Then adjust the front adjuster to get 0° camber.

You will have the max caster possible for a 26' GMC.

I would ASSSUME the same is true for the '23.

When I read Jerry Works email on his 3/4 ton installation he noted that
Manny included an offset upper control arm bushing to be installed in the
rear "leg" of the upper control arm. AFIK the only other way to get more
caster is to install a pair of Dave Lenzi's modified upper control arms.

Regards,
Rob M.
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion-The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion-Double Trouble TZE365V100426


-----Original Message-----
From: Gary Worobec

Hi, Has anyone done any experimenting on front ride height on a 23'. I
understand that the front of the coach is higher than the back according to
factory specs but it looks dopy. Is there any combination of caster and
camber that might allow the front and rear to be the same height and still
get good handling. I'm getting ready for these adjustments as the 3/4 ton
front end install nears completion.

Thanks

Gary
 
Rob, Good advice on the caster setting. Yes, Manny does supply the offset
bushing. The specs you listed are what I am looking for. I think can get it
pretty close with a set of wide trammels and then get it to an alignment
shop though I'm not sure if they could get it any better.

Good on your boy Casey Stoner for winning the MotoGP USGP yesterday at
Laguna Seca. The kid is a rocket!!

Thanks

Gary and Joanne Worobec
1973 GMC Glacier
Anza, CA

----- Original Message -----
From: "Rob Mueller"
To:
Sent: Monday, July 25, 2011 4:20 PM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] ride height

Gary,

I agree with Mike vis-à-vis the CV joint alignment. When I picked up Double
Trouble from Ken Frey he told me the same thing and he's been "playing" with
Toronados and GMC's twice forever!

As noted a few times before here the best way to get good handling on a '26
is to set the front end at:

Camber: 0°
Caster: as much as you can get
Toe in/out: 0

To get the max caster run the rear adjuster so that the bolt is as close to
the frame as possible and lock it down to 90 ft lbs torque.

Then adjust the front adjuster to get 0° camber.

You will have the max caster possible for a 26' GMC.

I would ASSSUME the same is true for the '23.

When I read Jerry Works email on his 3/4 ton installation he noted that
Manny included an offset upper control arm bushing to be installed in the
rear "leg" of the upper control arm. AFIK the only other way to get more
caster is to install a pair of Dave Lenzi's modified upper control arms.

Regards,
Rob M.
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion-The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion-Double Trouble TZE365V100426

-----Original Message-----
From: Gary Worobec

Hi, Has anyone done any experimenting on front ride height on a 23'. I
understand that the front of the coach is higher than the back according to
factory specs but it looks dopy. Is there any combination of caster and
camber that might allow the front and rear to be the same height and still
get good handling. I'm getting ready for these adjustments as the 3/4 ton
front end install nears completion.

Thanks

Gary

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Gary,

You're welcome!

AND Cadel Evans just won the Tour de France!

First time for an Aussie!

It's interesting, if you look at how well the Aussies do in all types of
sports the amount of events they win and champions they have is totally
disproportionate to the population.

It is concrete proof that Aussies are a bunch of fun loving buggers!

Having said all this it is amazing that Lance Armstrong won it SEVEN years
in a row starting in 1999 AFTER recovering from cancer!

Regards,
Rob M.
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion-The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion-Double Trouble TZE365V100426


-----Original Message-----
From: Gary Worobec

Rob, Good advice on the caster setting. Yes, Manny does supply the offset
bushing. The specs you listed are what I am looking for. I think can get it
pretty close with a set of wide trammels and then get it to an alignment
shop though I'm not sure if they could get it any better.

Good on your boy Casey Stoner for winning the MotoGP USGP yesterday at
Laguna Seca. The kid is a rocket!!

Thanks
Gary
 
76 elaganza 2,
Ride height issue?
I cannot get my coach to the proper level, it is way to high now I?ve adjusted the pork chop to no avail
I took the pork chop off and rotated it one position now it?s to low sags way down, so I put it all back the way it was and took it to an alignment specialist who works on bigger rigs, he felt he could help me.
He adjusted it all the way out and it had no affect still to high, I figured he has the pit let him see if I didn?t do it right, he rotated the pork chop one socket turn and he had the same effect too low,
He turned the bolt all the way tight so there was about a fingers width left till the pork chop hit the frame, still to low argh! Least I know I did it right the first time.
Couldn?t be driven when it was that low, got some good advice and when he was putting it back he checked that the T.B.?s were marked Left and Right they were and the marks were forward.
When I bought the coach it was riding fine went through the front end, sent both my Lower C arms into get looked over got them back painted them put new bushings in and installed them into the coach.
Nothing out of the ordinary there.
While working on the coach and having the engine out and wheels off for a year I did notice when I put the Jack under the Lower control arms and jack it up it would lift the whole front end of the coach the suspension WOULD NOT flex like it should it was like the torsion bar was forcing it down it was like this prior to the LCArms having been worked on, I just figured with the engine out the front end was just to light to
Force it down.
Well the whole thing is back and driving only now I look like I have a Hydraulic lift kit all that?s missing is the thump thump music.
ANY THOUGHTS?
 
Did you ( or someone else in its past) by chance switch the torsion bars from one side to the other when it was apart? I do believe they are R/L specific.
--
Paul W L
76 Palm Beach
Cleveland,OH
 
I had them check L & R and that the markings were in the forward position as per Jim B. when they set the pork chops
thanks
 
Yes,,,,same thing happened to me. Lots of adjusting with strange,,,no,,,or too much. Heres what I did. Measure,,,height is wrong. Jack,,,support and crank on those bolts. lower and measure. Wrong,,,repeat. Still wrong. repeat. Heres what I did wrong. Can't reach the bolt or climb under. Too low and unsafe. Right?? When raised the tires cock in at the bottom. Lower it down and it "sticks". Kind of like the rear of an old VW bug. You've got to drive it forward and back 10 to 20 feet and then measure. Don't jack,adjust,lower, measure. Won't work,,,,,,,PL
 
Hmmm I do see what You mean I do have the PC bolts adjusted all the way out and drove it back from the alienment shop and it didn't settle back down and when turned one hex degree on the PC it was too low to drive anywhere
 
Pork chops come in three different angles. You can probably get one that will adjust better . If Jim Kanomata doesn't have them, check with Alex or Jeff Sirum.

Emery Stora

>
>
> 76 elaganza 2,
> Ride height issue?
> I cannot get my coach to the proper level, it is way to high now I?ve adjusted the pork chop to no avail
> I took the pork chop off and rotated it one position now it?s to low sags way down, so I put it all back the way it was and took it to an alignment specialist who works on bigger rigs, he felt he could help me.
> He adjusted it all the way out and it had no affect still to high, I figured he has the pit let him see if I didn?t do it right, he rotated the pork chop one socket turn and he had the same effect too low,
> He turned the bolt all the way tight so there was about a fingers width left till the pork chop hit the frame, still to low argh! Least I know I did it right the first time.
> Couldn?t be driven when it was that low, got some good advice and when he was putting it back he checked that the T.B.?s were marked Left and Right they were and the marks were forward.
> When I bought the coach it was riding fine went through the front end, sent both my Lower C arms into get looked over got them back painted them put new bushings in and installed them into the coach.
> Nothing out of the ordinary there.
> While working on the coach and having the engine out and wheels off for a year I did notice when I put the Jack under the Lower control arms and jack it up it would lift the whole front end of the coach the suspension WOULD NOT flex like it should it was like the torsion bar was forcing it down it was like this prior to the LCArms having been worked on, I just figured with the engine out the front end was just to light to
> Force it down.
> Well the whole thing is back and driving only now I look like I have a Hydraulic lift kit all that?s missing is the thump thump music.
> ANY THOUGHTS?
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
 
>
>
> I had them check L & R and that the markings were in the forward position as per Jim B. when they set the pork chops
> thanks
While switching L to R will make a difference, it would not matter if the marking were forward or back the bar would still twist in the correct direction.

Emery Stora
77 Kingsley
Santa Fe, NM
 
Emory
interesting
I did find two pictures that I took one Chop had a 15 stamped into it and the other a 13 stamped into it.
can they be swaped side for side? could I have mixed them?
I thought I kept them on each side but i cant say for sure if they stayed L & R
the ride hieght was good when I first got it and when I was putting it back together I noticed the torsion bar nut block was originally on upside down which means somebody had been there before I fixed that issue
 
>
>
> Emory
> interesting
> I did find two pictures that I took one Chop had a 15 stamped into it and the other a 13 stamped into it.
> can they be swaped side for side? could I have mixed them?

You might have. The larger the angle the higher the lift. Usually both sides are the same.

One can also use a longer bolt to get more lift but you have said that you have too much lift.

> I thought I kept them on each side but i cant say for sure if they stayed L & R
> the ride hieght was good when I first got it and when I was putting it back together I noticed the torsion bar nut block was originally on upside down which means somebody had been there before I fixed that issue

Emery Stora
77 Kingsley
Santa Fe, NM
 
Vince,

Please don't take offense but when you say left side and right side what do
you mean.

Is the left side the driver side and the right side the passenger side?

Regards,
Rob M.
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion-The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion-Double Trouble TZE365V100426


-----Original Message-----
From: vince Coley

Emory
interesting
I did find two pictures that I took one Chop had a 15 stamped into it and
the other a 13 stamped into it.
can they be swaped side for side? could I have mixed them?
I thought I kept them on each side but i cant say for sure if they stayed L
& R
the ride hieght was good when I first got it and when I was putting it back
together I noticed the torsion bar nut block was originally on upside down
which means somebody had been there before I fixed that issue
 
Non taken Ozzie, HaHa yes drivers side is left Pass Side Right for those of us that drive on the Correct side of the street. :)
 
I've told Rob this before.

In the US, and most of the world, we drive on the right side of the road. In Australia for some reason they drive on the wrong side of the road.
--
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
 
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