Rear Batteries

H

hemogoblin

New member
Jul 9, 1998
138
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Hi All,
Thanks for the resonse on my Battery size request. I guess your'e all
suggesting to go with 6V . I'll try once again, there is a Golf Course
nearby , and Wal-Mart . Are 6Volt that much better??
Mark '77 Palm Beach LINY
 
Might want to read this

http://www.amplepower.com/primer/which/index.html

then is up to amps of capacity per cost.

gene

>Ok I will bite. Why does everyone think that 2 6volt golf cart batteries are
>better than one size 4D deep cylcle battery? I just installed a interstate
>size 4D.
>
>
>

>>Hi All,
>>Thanks for the resonse on my Battery size request. I guess your'e all
>>suggesting to go with 6V . I'll try once again, there is a Golf Course
>>nearby , and Wal-Mart . Are 6Volt that much better??
>>Mark '77 Palm Beach LINY
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Genef -- 77PB/ore/ca
GMC MOTORHOME INFORMATION
mr.erf
http://www.california.com/~eagle/
 
> Ok I will bite. Why does everyone think that 2 6volt golf cart
> batteries are
> better than one size 4D deep cylcle battery? I just installed a
> interstate
> size 4D.
>

When it was time to replace my 4D after 4 1/2 years of service, I
researched the isuue pretty carefully and being both mechanically and
electrically challenged I went with the vast majority of technical
writers who said the 6v batteries are better.

I don't recall the details so I can't add quality to the discussion but
they have done their job well for the past 2 years and in 3 more years if
you remember to ask me I will give you my final position.:)

David Lee Greenberg
GMC Motorhome Registry
Dedicated To The Preservation Of The GMC Classic!
www.gmcss.com/registry.htm
 
> Ok I will bite. Why does everyone think that 2 6volt golf cart
> batteries are
> better than one size 4D deep cylcle battery? I just installed a
> interstate
> size 4D.
>

When it was time to replace my 4D after 4 1/2 years of service, I
researched the isuue pretty carefully and being both mechanically and
electrically challenged I went with the vast majority of technical
writers who said the 6v batteries are better.

I don't recall the details so I can't add quality to the discussion but
they have done their job well for the past 2 years and in 3 more years if
you remember to ask me I will give you my final position.:)

David Lee Greenberg
GMC Motorhome Registry
Dedicated To The Preservation Of The GMC Classic!
www.gmcss.com/registry.htm
 
>Ok I will bite. Why does everyone think that 2 6volt golf cart batteries are
>better than one size 4D deep cylcle battery? I just installed a interstate
>size 4D.

I have always heard that the pair of 6V batteries had more plate area.

FWIW,
Marion Hope

77 Kingsley

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
George M.(Marion) Hope, Ph.D.
1930 SW 19th Way gmhope
Gainesville, FL 32608 gmhope
(352) 371-2795 (Home) (352) 846-2111 (Office)
 
Mark,

My understanding is that the golf cart batteries are true deep cycle units,
intended for prolonged discharge cycles. There's no magic in them being 6
volt batteries, thats just the size they're manufactured in to keep
individual unit weight down. After all, a 12 volt unit of similar
construction would weigh at least twice as much. The 4D and other similar
large 12 volt batteries are designed as starting batteries and, I've been
told, can be damaged when deeply discharged, shortening their useful life
span.

IIRC, this was covered in one of the early issues of Cinnabar's GMC
Motorhome News.

HTH,
Patrick

> -----Original Message-----
> From: hemogoblin [mailto:hemogoblin]
> Sent: Sunday, March 19, 2000 4:38 PM
> To: gmcmotorhome
> Subject: GMC: Rear Batteries
>
>
> Hi All,
> Thanks for the resonse on my Battery size request. I guess your'e all
> suggesting to go with 6V . I'll try once again, there is a Golf Course
> nearby , and Wal-Mart . Are 6Volt that much better??
> Mark '77 Palm Beach LINY
>
>
 
Tom,
Funny I been wondering too. Just been
keeping my mouth shut. I asked our UPS
maintenance man here at work about this.
He was shocked (no pun intended) that
everyone was going series with 2 - 6volt
batteries. He said 99% of the time seen
that batteries fail due to opens and not
shorts. He said if that's the case then
two 12 volts in parallel would be a much
better solution. Should one open the
other will still work fine (just half as
long).
These are his thoughts and since he has
years of experience with UPS batteries
(sealed, deep discharge type) I would
trust his word. Would like to hear
others comments though. Just thought I'd
bring up what he told me.

Nate 75GB (Gloomy and cold again today)
Omaha

>>>>>

Date: 19 Mar 2000 22:02:50 -0000
From: Tom Warner
Subject: Re: GMC: Rear Batteries

Ok I will bite. Why does everyone think
that 2 6volt golf cart batteries are
better than one size 4D deep cylcle
battery? I just installed a interstate
size 4D.
 
>Tom,
> Funny I been wondering too. Just been
>keeping my mouth shut. I asked our UPS
>maintenance man here at work about this.
>He was shocked (no pun intended) that
>everyone was going series with 2 - 6volt
>batteries. He said 99% of the time seen
>that batteries fail due to opens and not
>shorts. He said if that's the case then
>two 12 volts in parallel would be a much
>better solution. Should one open the
>other will still work fine (just half as
>long).
> These are his thoughts and since he has
>years of experience with UPS batteries
>(sealed, deep discharge type) I would
>trust his word. Would like to hear
>others comments though. Just thought I'd
>bring up what he told me.

Nate,

There are many reasons to choose a golf cart battery. Chief among them are:

1. it's designed for vehicle use. Road vibration is the single biggest
killer of house batteries, apart from "normal" abuse.

2. Cell shorts generally occur due to either sulphates shorting the cells
when it flakes off, or warped plates due to thinness of the lead after
repeated discharge cycles. The larger height of golf cart batteries is from
the extra space at the bottom of the case to catch sulphates as they flake
off from the lead. The greater weight of golf cart batteries comes from
additional lead - which in turn will extend battery life. Golf cart
batteries have thicker lead plates.

3. golf cart batteries are optimized for repeated deep cycles at a
reasonable current drain.

4. they're cheap in comparison to any other type of battery offering the
same AH.

As for opens being the predominant failure mechanism - a 12V battery has
exactly the same number of cells in series as 2 6V batteries.

IT's important to remember that for some components, the application
doesn't matter much. For others, it makes a great deal of difference.
Stationary UPS has different requirements for their batteries (including
being sealed).

Henry
 
I was waiting for someone else to jump in here:

The reason I chose golf cart batteries was because they
are designed for many, many periods of charging and
then deep discharging. Standard 12 volt deep-cycle batteries
do the same, but don't last as long. The following
is from the book "Managing 12 Volts" by Harold
Barre:

"True deep-cycle batteries are designed to be repeatedly
discharged to 20% of their capacity over a period of 5-15
years. They are usually of massive size and weight and
are rarely assembled into batteries of over 6 volts. The
plates are over four times thicker then those in starting
batteries, constructed of scored sheet lead, and alloyed
with up to 16 percent antimony. The addition of
antimony to strength the plate unfortunately, adds to
the gassing problems and contributes to a high rage of
discharge of as much as 15 to 20% a month. The battery
case is larger to allow for additional space under the plates
so that shedding of the active material does not cause shorts.
Also, More room is a available for the electrolyte, providing
a reservoir against water loss. The plates are sometimes
wrapped in perforated plastic mesh that keeps the lead
on the plates longer and extend the life of t he plates by as much
as 25 to 35 percent. The most common types of deep-cycle
batteries are built for golf carts and other electric vehicles.
They can withstand deep charging for 300 to 700 cycles.

In contrast the automotive deep cycle batters will last
then 200 cycles."

So the argument that shorts will cause failures 99% of the
time is not exactly valid with golf cart batteries.

HTM and my 2 cents worth.
Richard Waters '76 PB, Troy, MI

> Tom,
> Funny I been wondering too. Just been
> keeping my mouth shut. I asked our UPS
> maintenance man here at work about this.
> He was shocked (no pun intended) that
> everyone was going series with 2 - 6volt
> batteries. He said 99% of the time seen
> that batteries fail due to opens and not
> shorts. He said if that's the case then
> two 12 volts in parallel would be a much
> better solution. Should one open the
> other will still work fine (just half as
> long).
> These are his thoughts and since he has
> years of experience with UPS batteries
> (sealed, deep discharge type) I would
> trust his word. Would like to hear
> others comments though. Just thought I'd
> bring up what he told me.
>
> Nate 75GB (Gloomy and cold again today)
> Omaha
>
> >>>>>>
>
> Date: 19 Mar 2000 22:02:50 -0000
> From: Tom Warner
> Subject: Re: GMC: Rear Batteries
>
> Ok I will bite. Why does everyone think
> that 2 6volt golf cart batteries are
> better than one size 4D deep cylcle
> battery? I just installed a interstate
> size 4D.
 
I was waiting for someone else to jump in here:

The reason I chose golf cart batteries was because they
are designed for many, many periods of charging and
then deep discharging. Standard 12 volt deep-cycle batteries
do the same, but don't last as long. The following
is from the book "Managing 12 Volts" by Harold
Barre:

"True deep-cycle batteries are designed to be repeatedly
discharged to 20% of their capacity over a period of 5-15
years. They are usually of massive size and weight and
are rarely assembled into batteries of over 6 volts. The
plates are over four times thicker then those in starting
batteries, constructed of scored sheet lead, and alloyed
with up to 16 percent antimony. The addition of
antimony to strength the plate unfortunately, adds to
the gassing problems and contributes to a high rage of
discharge of as much as 15 to 20% a month. The battery
case is larger to allow for additional space under the plates
so that shedding of the active material does not cause shorts.
Also, More room is a available for the electrolyte, providing
a reservoir against water loss. The plates are sometimes
wrapped in perforated plastic mesh that keeps the lead
on the plates longer and extend the life of t he plates by as much
as 25 to 35 percent. The most common types of deep-cycle
batteries are built for golf carts and other electric vehicles.
They can withstand deep charging for 300 to 700 cycles.

In contrast the automotive type 12 volt deep-cycle batteries
will last about 200 cycles."

So the argument that shorts will cause failures 99% of the
time is not exactly valid with golf cart batteries.

HTM and my 2 cents worth.
Richard Waters '76 PB, Troy, MI

> Tom,
> Funny I been wondering too. Just been
> keeping my mouth shut. I asked our UPS
> maintenance man here at work about this.
> He was shocked (no pun intended) that
> everyone was going series with 2 - 6volt
> batteries. He said 99% of the time seen
> that batteries fail due to opens and not
> shorts. He said if that's the case then
> two 12 volts in parallel would be a much
> better solution. Should one open the
> other will still work fine (just half as
> long).
> These are his thoughts and since he has
> years of experience with UPS batteries
> (sealed, deep discharge type) I would
> trust his word. Would like to hear
> others comments though. Just thought I'd
> bring up what he told me.
>
> Nate 75GB (Gloomy and cold again today)
> Omaha
>
> >>>>>>
>
> Date: 19 Mar 2000 22:02:50 -0000
> From: Tom Warner
> Subject: Re: GMC: Rear Batteries
>
> Ok I will bite. Why does everyone think
> that 2 6volt golf cart batteries are
> better than one size 4D deep cylcle
> battery? I just installed a interstate
> size 4D.
 
You should read the reference I put up on the web page, also West Marine
says that the
golf cart batts 700 charge cycles
8D batts 300 charge cycles

starting batts 3 to 10 complete discharges before failure

another good reason to take all the acc items off of the engine battery.

gene

>Tom,
> Funny I been wondering too. Just been
>keeping my mouth shut. I asked our UPS
>maintenance man here at work about this.
>He was shocked (no pun intended) that
>everyone was going series with 2 - 6volt
>batteries. He said 99% of the time seen
>that batteries fail due to opens and not
>shorts. He said if that's the case then
>two 12 volts in parallel would be a much
>better solution. Should one open the
>other will still work fine (just half as
>long).
> These are his thoughts and since he has
>years of experience with UPS batteries
>(sealed, deep discharge type) I would
>trust his word. Would like to hear
>others comments though. Just thought I'd
>bring up what he told me.
>
>Nate 75GB (Gloomy and cold again today)
>Omaha
>
>>>>>>>
>
>Date: 19 Mar 2000 22:02:50 -0000
>From: Tom Warner
>Subject: Re: GMC: Rear Batteries
>
>Ok I will bite. Why does everyone think
>that 2 6volt golf cart batteries are
>better than one size 4D deep cylcle
>battery? I just installed a interstate
>size 4D.
>
>
>
Genef -- 77PB/ore/ca
GMC MOTORHOME INFORMATION
mr.erf
http://www.california.com/~eagle/
 
Hi Tom,

Saw your question about Golf Cart Batteries . Was just about to write
when I saw Rich Waters post. He covered the bases well . These
batteries can stand going deeper on the discharge than the other deep
cycle types and for more cycles. I have used them on golf carts and
discharged many times until the cart just won't move any more. After
recharge they come back strong . 12V deep cycle batteries just aren't
"designed " to take this abuse . Besides my own assessment of this
situation ,I have seen numbers of experts address this problem and come
to same conclusion. My experience in my own coach validates this
conclusion. They also have a little more capacity than most 12V
options. The down side is that they require more space and they are
heavier. They fit in my rear compartment fine and I think the weight is
insignificant compared to all the stuff my wife loads for each trip
anyway. I hope this helps. Thanks again for your work on the bearing
pullers.

Hugh Fellows
77 Eleganza
Auburn,AL
 
>Hi Tom,
>
>recharge they come back strong . 12V deep cycle batteries just aren't
>"designed " to take this abuse .

There are 12V batteries that will do the same number of deep cycles as golf
cart batteries - they're just more expensive and more difficult to find.

In the world of compromises, the 6V golf cart batteries are a very good
solution.

Henry
 
> > Ok I will bite. Why does everyone think
> > that 2 6volt golf cart batteries are
> > better than one size 4D deep cylcle
> > battery? I just installed a interstate
> > size 4D.

- -------------------------------------------------------------

I have "researched" the battery dilemma over the years, and every
battery manufacturer I spoke with recommended the golf cart battery over
every other type, even if he didn't manufacture golf cart batteries.

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