Radiator cooling fan

tom geiger

New member
Dec 31, 2006
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I’ve been reading on radiator cooling fans for the motorhome. Its seems like there is a little trouble in both camps. The fan clutches seem to
fail but I’m also reading some have questions on the electric fans being dependable. I put on a new fan clutch years ago and am not sure its
working like it should. It seems to spin all the time but honestly not sure how these fan clutches are suppose to work. Anyhow was wondering what
everyone is doing on this now.

Thanks,
TG
--
Tom Geiger
76 Eleganza II
KCMO
 
The fan clutch can be tested to see if it is serviceable by trying to move
it when the engine is overnight cold. It should have a great amount of
resistance to turning it by hand. After the engine is at operating temps,
you should be able to easily turn the fan blades. If it locks up and roars
when you pull off the highway, and stop for a red light, etc. I would say
that it is working correctly.
Engine temps? I don't know. The clutches all vary a bit on cut in
/out temps. Hot air activates them, not coolant temps, so shroud
construction or modifications will affect that as well.
About all that I know about them.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Oregon

> I’ve been reading on radiator cooling fans for the motorhome. Its seems
> like there is a little trouble in both camps. The fan clutches seem to
> fail but I’m also reading some have questions on the electric fans being
> dependable. I put on a new fan clutch years ago and am not sure its
> working like it should. It seems to spin all the time but honestly not
> sure how these fan clutches are suppose to work. Anyhow was wondering what
> everyone is doing on this now.
>
> Thanks,
> TG
> --
> Tom Geiger
> 76 Eleganza II
> KCMO
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>
 
We provide all type and found that when the engine gets hot, the fan should
roar.
One almost need to have a temperature gage and have it reach around 210-220
degrees.
Tom Pryer came up with a kit using the Mercedes fan clutch that is
triggered by the temp sensor.
I have been running it for three years and also provide that kit.

> The fan clutch can be tested to see if it is serviceable by trying to move
> it when the engine is overnight cold. It should have a great amount of
> resistance to turning it by hand. After the engine is at operating temps,
> you should be able to easily turn the fan blades. If it locks up and roars
> when you pull off the highway, and stop for a red light, etc. I would say
> that it is working correctly.
> Engine temps? I don't know. The clutches all vary a bit on cut in
> /out temps. Hot air activates them, not coolant temps, so shroud
> construction or modifications will affect that as well.
> About all that I know about them.
> Jim Hupy
> Salem, Oregon
>

>
> > I’ve been reading on radiator cooling fans for the motorhome. Its seems
> > like there is a little trouble in both camps. The fan clutches seem to
> > fail but I’m also reading some have questions on the electric fans being
> > dependable. I put on a new fan clutch years ago and am not sure its
> > working like it should. It seems to spin all the time but honestly not
> > sure how these fan clutches are suppose to work. Anyhow was wondering
> what
> > everyone is doing on this now.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > TG
> > --
> > Tom Geiger
> > 76 Eleganza II
> > KCMO
> > _______________________________________________
> > GMCnet mailing list
> > Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> >
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>

--
Jim Kanomata ASE
Applied/GMC, Newark,CA
jimk
http://www.gmcrvparts.com
1-800-752-7502
 
During my dash rebuild, I recently installed an Autometer water temperature gauge in addition to the factory gauge. I have a 10 month old NAPA medium
duty clutch fan that I wondered about as the only time I knew for sure was running was when I start the engine for the first time for the day. After
the water temperature gauge was installed, I cranked the coach up and let it warm while doing some dash and air suspension checks. I have a new
radiator core, all new hoses, and a new Robert Shaw 195 degree thermostat. I kind of forgot about the engine idling while I was working on things, but
when I remembered and went back up front, the temperature was sitting at about 205 degrees. I decided to just watch a minute and see if it got any
hotter. It was about 85 degrees outside with 60% humidity. In just a minute or so, I heard the fan kick in for the first time other than initial start
up. It ran for a couple of minutes and the water temperature went all the way down to 180 degrees. That meant that the thermostat was closing again. I
had checked the thermostat for proper operation on the stove top before installation. I kept watching, and the temp slowly began to rise again. So I
was pretty happy to see that everything seemed to be working as it should. The clutch fan kicked in somewhere between 205-210 on the gauge. I don't
know what the air temp coming past the fan sensor was, but it was probably close to that. So yours should behave similarly. I've been told that a
gunked up radiator may not flow enough water to heat up the radiator fins sufficiently to engage the fan, and that may have been my problem before
recoring my radiator.
--
Greg Crawford
KM4ZCR
Knoxville, TN

"Ruby Sue"
1977 Royale
Rear Bath
403 Engine
American Eagle Wheels
Early Version Alex Sirum Quad bags
 
By your description Greg then I guess its working but mine gets up to 205-210 but never drops off that temp ever. It never gets hotter than that but
never cooler.

TG
--
Tom Geiger
76 Eleganza II
KCMO
 
As far as the radiator is concerned, I did have it re-cored 15 years back. I guess my first step will be to put a test temp gage on it and see what
the temp is. I too have a aftermarket temp gage on mine and not sure if its reading accurate. I’ve read thru the radiator temp gage section on the
Fisher site. My dash temp gage says 1/4 but I don’t know if that’s the original OEM sensor model or the new one as suggested by the Fisher site.
Once I get a true reading on temp I’ll go from there. We’re going camping so I’ll keep on eye on it and see how it acts on the highway as well
as after I come off and hopefully see the fan clutch kick in.
I’ll report what I see.

Thanks,
TG
--
Tom Geiger
76 Eleganza II
KCMO
 
How to know if your fan clutch is working:

With engine stone cold (and not running) reach in through the hatch and try to spin the fan blade. It shouldn't spin. If it free-wheels or spins
easily it is not working . That is one common mode of failure.

Now start the engine. You should hear the roar of the fan for several seconds until the clutch loosens up a bit and then the roar will fade. This
is normal operation.

If it roars initially and never stops roaring, then the clutch is not releasing. The clutch is locked up. This is another mode of failure.

Now go climb a large hill on a hot day. You should hear the fan kick in and start to roar after you get up the hill a ways. I often hear mine
start to roar as I'm cresting the hill and starting on the way down. This is normal operation.

You shouldn't see any major fluctuations in the engine coolant temperature if your cooling system (water pump, thermostat, radiator and fan clutch) is
functioning properly.

Cheers!
--
Todd Snyder, Buffalo NY
1976 Eleganza II
 
Todd, just went out and tested the fan clutch and it did spin with some resistance so I guess its working then. It is for sure spinning the fan when
I first start it up. The aftermarket temp gage shows temps in and around 200+ as my OEM gage shows the 1/4 mark. I may be fine on engine temp but
wanted to check with a accurate temp gage test kit to make sure. I’ve been having what seems to be knocking that seems to be starting up when
engine is at full temp. I just want to make sure the engine is operating at proper temps.

Thanks,
TG
--
Tom Geiger
76 Eleganza II
KCMO
 
One cannot test the sensitivity to temperature as the coil controles when
it will lock up.
Rotating the blade is but one test, you do need to know that it can lock up
when temp gets in the 210-220

> Todd, just went out and tested the fan clutch and it did spin with some
> resistance so I guess its working then. It is for sure spinning the fan
> when
> I first start it up. The aftermarket temp gage shows temps in and around
> 200+ as my OEM gage shows the 1/4 mark. I may be fine on engine temp but
> wanted to check with a accurate temp gage test kit to make sure. I’ve
> been having what seems to be knocking that seems to be starting up when
> engine is at full temp. I just want to make sure the engine is operating
> at proper temps.
>
> Thanks,
> TG
> --
> Tom Geiger
> 76 Eleganza II
> KCMO
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>

--
Jim Kanomata ASE
Applied/GMC, Newark,CA
jimk
http://www.gmcrvparts.com
1-800-752-7502
 
I will try to explain this one more time. Both Steve Ferguson and I have
presented seminars on this subject more than once, and probably will again,
if the Good Lord allows me enough time.
Fan clutches are filled with a very special silicone fluid that gets
more viscosity when it is heated, unlike hydrocarbon and synthetic oils
that thin out, or less viscous, when they are heated. If you look at the
finned surface of a fan clutch, you will see in the center of it a flat
shaped spring coiled in a circle with several wraps. One end is anchored to
the clutch body, and the other end is connected to linkage that disappears
inside the clutch. That linkage operates a valve that circulates that
viscous fluid to expose it to more driven fin like elements, and that in
turn makes the clutch "lock up" or drive the fan at a speed higher than it
is when the spring is not expanded. Clear as mud, right?
Simple answer, is that it is hot air that has an effect on the spring!
NOT HOT COOLANT. HOT COOLANT heats the air that passes through the
radiator, and that activates the spring, etc, etc.
Remember this. The higher the air flow volume through the radiator,
the less heat is concentrated in a smaller volume of air. So, that is why
the clutches seldom lock up at highway speed, and more when the coach is
moving slower. Also, the clutch is behind the curve, the coolant has
already gained more heat, reflected in your coolant temp gage indication,
before the air gains enough temp to activate that little spring.
More to it than space allows here, so, catch me at a rally someplace,
and I will explain in detail.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Oregon

> Todd, just went out and tested the fan clutch and it did spin with some
> resistance so I guess its working then. It is for sure spinning the fan
> when
> I first start it up. The aftermarket temp gage shows temps in and around
> 200+ as my OEM gage shows the 1/4 mark. I may be fine on engine temp but
> wanted to check with a accurate temp gage test kit to make sure. I’ve
> been having what seems to be knocking that seems to be starting up when
> engine is at full temp. I just want to make sure the engine is operating
> at proper temps.
>
> Thanks,
> TG
> --
> Tom Geiger
> 76 Eleganza II
> KCMO
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>
 
Reminds me of our trip across the Texas Panhandle in the summer of about
'81. We had a '75 Titan motorhome with a Chrysler 318 engine. We were
cruising along pretty nicely, then I slowed down below 50 mph, and the
transmission downshifted! I finally found that it did it pretty
consistently: Below about 50 mph it would downshift to 3rd gear. At
higher speeds it upshifted again. Finally, we arrived at Palo Duro Canyon
for the night. I found a 'phone (no cells in those days) and called my old
F101B pilot buddy in NC, who owned an RV dealership: "What should I tell
the shop when I take this darned thing in tomorrow?" He got a big kick out
of that question: "I think your fan clutch is working just fine!"

That one was electrically controlled, so the next morning I added a control
switch. Sure 'nuff, with that, I could "upshift" at will! :-)

Ken H.

> I will try to explain this one more time. Both Steve Ferguson and I have
> presented seminars on this subject more than once, and probably will again,
> if the Good Lord allows me enough time.
> Fan clutches are filled with a very special silicone fluid that gets
> more viscosity when it is heated, unlike hydrocarbon and synthetic oils
> that thin out, or less viscous, when they are heated. If you look at the
> finned surface of a fan clutch, you will see in the center of it a flat
> shaped spring coiled in a circle with several wraps. One end is anchored to
> the clutch body, and the other end is connected to linkage that disappears
> inside the clutch. That linkage operates a valve that circulates that
> viscous fluid to expose it to more driven fin like elements, and that in
> turn makes the clutch "lock up" or drive the fan at a speed higher than it
> is when the spring is not expanded. Clear as mud, right?
> Simple answer, is that it is hot air that has an effect on the spring!
> NOT HOT COOLANT. HOT COOLANT heats the air that passes through the
> radiator, and that activates the spring, etc, etc.
> Remember this. The higher the air flow volume through the radiator,
> the less heat is concentrated in a smaller volume of air. So, that is why
> the clutches seldom lock up at highway speed, and more when the coach is
> moving slower. Also, the clutch is behind the curve, the coolant has
> already gained more heat, reflected in your coolant temp gage indication,
> before the air gains enough temp to activate that little spring.
> More to it than space allows here, so, catch me at a rally someplace,
> and I will explain in detail.
> Jim Hupy
> Salem, Oregon
>

>
> > Todd, just went out and tested the fan clutch and it did spin with some
> > resistance so I guess its working then. It is for sure spinning the fan
> > when
> > I first start it up. The aftermarket temp gage shows temps in and around
> > 200+ as my OEM gage shows the 1/4 mark. I may be fine on engine temp but
> > wanted to check with a accurate temp gage test kit to make sure. I’ve
> > been having what seems to be knocking that seems to be starting up when
> > engine is at full temp. I just want to make sure the engine is operating
> > at proper temps.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > TG
> > --
> > Tom Geiger
> > 76 Eleganza II
> > KCMO
> > _______________________________________________
> > GMCnet mailing list
> > Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> >
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>
 
Ha Ha Ha ! I love that story.
AND that park!

bdub

On Fri, Sep 17, 2021 at 10:38 AM Ken Henderson
wrote:

> Reminds me of our trip across the Texas Panhandle in the summer of about
> '81. We had a '75 Titan motorhome with a Chrysler 318 engine. We were
> cruising along pretty nicely, then I slowed down below 50 mph, and the
> transmission downshifted! I finally found that it did it pretty
> consistently: Below about 50 mph it would downshift to 3rd gear. At
> higher speeds it upshifted again. Finally, we arrived at Palo Duro Canyon
> for the night. I found a 'phone (no cells in those days) and called my old
> F101B pilot buddy in NC, who owned an RV dealership: "What should I tell
> the shop when I take this darned thing in tomorrow?" He got a big kick out
> of that question: "I think your fan clutch is working just fine!"
>
> That one was electrically controlled, so the next morning I added a control
> switch. Sure 'nuff, with that, I could "upshift" at will! :-)
>
 
We had a fan clutch that really unresponsive, I thought about it and looked at the bi-metal spring. Then I washed it out with a spray can of
something and then it worked better. We also had one lock up completely.

At this time, I have forgotten where we were going, but at first my thought was that I was being chased by a DC3. Then I checked the tach and we were
in top gear. Then I got on the web (Mary was driving) and found that a Autozone not way off our route had a clutch part number that should work. We
were going past Amana Colonies, so we went in there and Mary went into that neat general store while I waited with the engine room door open, the A/C
running and the tools at hand.

In this case, it was amazingly convenient to have the clutch locked up tightly enough that I could actually pull through a compression to get at what
I needed to R&R the fan clutch. Putting the replacement in was not as convenient. I didn't save the old part.

I do love this new fan control and will be collecting data about it when we head for Chippewa Falls.

Matt
--
Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
 
> I do love this new fan control and will be collecting data about it when we head for Chippewa Falls.

I'll be interested in how you like it; are you using an external sensor or the EBL? If external, where did you put it?

--
Bill Van Vlack
'76 Royale; Guemes Island, Washington; Twin bed, full (DS) side bath, Brazilian Redwood counter and settee tops,455, 6KW generator; new owner a/o mid
November 2015.
 
> > I do love this new fan control and will be collecting data about it when we head for Chippewa Falls.
>
> I'll be interested in how you like it; are you using an external sensor or the EBL? If external, where did you put it?

Bill,

I don't have EBL (yet). It is just a switched control but it allows me to feed it a duty cycle to control the the fan speed. All I have is an
instrument on the coolant in (a thermocouple) and a per cent duty cycle on the controller.

Matt
--
Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
 
> Bill,
> I don't have EBL (yet). It is just a switched control but it allows me to feed it a duty cycle to control the the fan speed. All I have is an
> instrument on the coolant in (a thermocouple) and a per cent duty cycle on the controller.
> Matt

Matt,
I have the EBL tie-in that uses the 'Fan On' signal from the EBL, where it's possible to specify fan on/off temperatures using TunerPro. I think it
can also turn it on when AC is running if one hooks up a signal from the AC clutch; not sure other logic, if any, affects when the EBL tells the fan
to start/stop.

--
Bill Van Vlack
'76 Royale; Guemes Island, Washington; Twin bed, full (DS) side bath, Brazilian Redwood counter and settee tops,455, 6KW generator; new owner a/o mid
November 2015.
 
Bill and Matt, a little unclear of what you guys are talking of on the cooling fan. It sounds like Matt is running electric cooling fans? If so,
could you let me know what your running. I’ve got a EBL in a box along with all the other TBI stuff to install here in the next month or so. Was
hoping to verify proper engine temps before I got it installed. If I find the engine running hotter than it should I’d like to get that corrected by
either new radiator or a combination of things. So thats where I’m trying to head.

Thanks
TG
--
Tom Geiger
76 Eleganza II
KCMO
 
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/g7102-mercedes-fan-for-gmc.html

> Bill and Matt, a little unclear of what you guys are talking of on the
> cooling fan. It sounds like Matt is running electric cooling fans? If so,
> could you let me know what your running. I’ve got a EBL in a box along
> with all the other TBI stuff to install here in the next month or so. Was
> hoping to verify proper engine temps before I got it installed. If I find
> the engine running hotter than it should I’d like to get that corrected by
> either new radiator or a combination of things. So thats where I’m trying
> to head.
>
 
Tom,

What I am running an electrically controlled fan clutch. Right now, it also has a control that can provide a less than 100% duty cycle. The
advantage of that is that there is even less noise when it is engaged. It is already substantially quieter than the original, but that is no feat.

Matt - headed north to Chippewa Falls
--
Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit