Power Switch / TS30 relay

W

walter m. drew

New member
Nov 1, 1998
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Heinz, I have been trying to find more information about the TS-30..
Nothing on Jim Bounds site and various browsers produced a lot of
engineers named Todd. Help anyone.

Walter 78 Royale
 
Richard,

I got a TS-30 and TS-50 from Jim Bounds last year. I actually only used the
time delay module as my Transmode has a switch-over relay similar to what's
used in the TS's already installed. ( The rest is now 'spare parts').

The TS-50 is large physically. Unless you have 2 AC's I would guess that
you'd never draw 50 amps when running on the GenSet.

The TS-30 may be ample for normal needs and is much easier to install.

The scheme of it is that by default, i.e. relay de-energized, the contacts
are closed to shore power. When GenSet is started the output is sensed by
the time delay and after a short time the relay is energized and coach
switches to GenSet power. The time delay is sufficient for the GenSet to be
stable before relay is energized.

It would be a simple retrofit as it's all in it's own enclosure.

If you need some measurements on the enclose, let me know.

Heinz
 
Heinz,

The capacity might not be as important as how it handles the circuits. The
GMC wiring is set up so that it gets two feeds from the 6K Onan. It gets
one 30 amp feed and one 20 amp feed. The 20 amp feed is mostly for the A/C
and some small appliances, while the 30 amp feed is mostly for everything
else. These circuits are kept totally separate. Even though our 23' came
with the 4K Onan which only provided the 30 amp service, it was still wired
for the separate circuits which made installing the 6K Honda much nicer.

I believe that the 50 amp transfer switch would keep them separate, but the
30 amp one would combine them. I suspect this is why the 50 amp one is so
much bigger. Do you know if this is true? I don't know if it would be
good to combine the two outputs of the Onan or not. I suspect, serious
problems could arise if you inadvertently got close to the 50 amp draw with
it set up like this. It might be easier to exceed 30 amps than you think.
With the A/C and Microwave on we would trip our 20 amp breaker. If you add
the converter's 7 amp draw or so, we were definitely higher than 30 amps
total. We have now moved everything over to the 30 amp service except for
the A/C and have not had any further problems.

As a side note, one of the adapters used only when plugging it into shore
power does combine the two circuits together so they both get power when
hooked to a normal 15-20 amp outlet. In this case, however, the shore
power's breaker is expected to limit the current to acceptable levels.

Zak

>Richard,
>
>I got a TS-30 and TS-50 from Jim Bounds last year. I actually only used the
>time delay module as my Transmode has a switch-over relay similar to what's
>used in the TS's already installed. ( The rest is now 'spare parts').
>
>The TS-50 is large physically. Unless you have 2 AC's I would guess that
>you'd never draw 50 amps when running on the GenSet.
>
>The TS-30 may be ample for normal needs and is much easier to install.
>
>The scheme of it is that by default, i.e. relay de-energized, the contacts
>are closed to shore power. When GenSet is started the output is sensed by
>the time delay and after a short time the relay is energized and coach
>switches to GenSet power. The time delay is sufficient for the GenSet to be
>stable before relay is energized.
>
>It would be a simple retrofit as it's all in it's own enclosure.
>
>If you need some measurements on the enclose, let me know.
>
>Heinz
>
 
Thanks for the info.

I see that Campers Choice has 2 generator switches. A 30 AMP ($49.95) and a 50
AMP ($84.95). Are those the same units? I only have 1 AC unit, however our
power at home has been going out a lot lately. I utilized the generator of the
coach to run the house a few times this Winter, but was limited to 2 20 AMP
circuits. I thought that if I had all 50 AMPS available to my house, I would
be better off. That's another design for me to ponder, but that would cause me
to consider the 50 AMP unit.

Richard Waters
'76 Palm Beach

> Richard,
>
> I got a TS-30 and TS-50 from Jim Bounds last year. I actually only used the
> time delay module as my Transmode has a switch-over relay similar to what's
> used in the TS's already installed. ( The rest is now 'spare parts').
>
> The TS-50 is large physically. Unless you have 2 AC's I would guess that
> you'd never draw 50 amps when running on the GenSet.
>
> The TS-30 may be ample for normal needs and is much easier to install.
>
> The scheme of it is that by default, i.e. relay de-energized, the contacts
> are closed to shore power. When GenSet is started the output is sensed by
> the time delay and after a short time the relay is energized and coach
> switches to GenSet power. The time delay is sufficient for the GenSet to be
> stable before relay is energized.
>
> It would be a simple retrofit as it's all in it's own enclosure.
>
> If you need some measurements on the enclose, let me know.
>
> Heinz
 
Cheech Zak, now you've given me more stuff to research in preparation of
Onan/Honda switch :-) When/where will it end [g].

Seriously, I'm not sure how mine wired other than the switchover being
automatic and since my relay was still good I didn't worry about it too much
and as my Onan is now dead alltogether I havn't had the chance lately.

Thanks for bringing it to my attention.

Richard, as far as what Camping World sells, no idea. I bought them from Jim
Bounds by just telling him my needs. I too plan to use the GenSet as
emergency housepower once I get the Honda installed.

Heinz

>Heinz,
>
>The capacity might not be as important as how it handles the circuits. The
>GMC wiring is set up so that it gets two feeds from the 6K Onan. It gets
>one 30 amp feed and one 20 amp feed. The 20 amp feed is mostly for the A/C
>and some small appliances, while the 30 amp feed is mostly for everything
>else. These circuits are kept totally separate. Even though our 23' came
>with the 4K Onan which only provided the 30 amp service, it was still wired
>for the separate circuits which made installing the 6K Honda much nicer.
>
>I believe that the 50 amp transfer switch would keep them separate, but the
>30 amp one would combine them. I suspect this is why the 50 amp one is so
>much bigger. Do you know if this is true? I don't know if it would be
>good to combine the two outputs of the Onan or not. I suspect, serious
>problems could arise if you inadvertently got close to the 50 amp draw with
>it set up like this. It might be easier to exceed 30 amps than you think.
>With the A/C and Microwave on we would trip our 20 amp breaker. If you add
>the converter's 7 amp draw or so, we were definitely higher than 30 amps
>total. We have now moved everything over to the 30 amp service except for
>the A/C and have not had any further problems.
>
>As a side note, one of the adapters used only when plugging it into shore
>power does combine the two circuits together so they both get power when
>hooked to a normal 15-20 amp outlet. In this case, however, the shore
>power's breaker is expected to limit the current to acceptable levels.
>
>Zak
>

>>Richard,
>>
>>I got a TS-30 and TS-50 from Jim Bounds last year. I actually only used
the
>>time delay module as my Transmode has a switch-over relay similar to
what's
>>used in the TS's already installed. ( The rest is now 'spare parts').
>>
>>The TS-50 is large physically. Unless you have 2 AC's I would guess that
>>you'd never draw 50 amps when running on the GenSet.
>>
>>The TS-30 may be ample for normal needs and is much easier to install.
>>
>>The scheme of it is that by default, i.e. relay de-energized, the contacts
>>are closed to shore power. When GenSet is started the output is sensed by
>>the time delay and after a short time the relay is energized and coach
>>switches to GenSet power. The time delay is sufficient for the GenSet to
be
>>stable before relay is energized.
>>
>>It would be a simple retrofit as it's all in it's own enclosure.
>>
>>If you need some measurements on the enclose, let me know.
>>
>>Heinz
>>
>
>
 
Good point and one that I am aware of. I have a transfer switch before the main
breaker panel in my house. I wired it for use with another generator. The
problem with that generator was that I had to keep filling the fuel tank everu
couple of hours and it was also very loud. Not good in the Summer. The GMC is
not as loud and has a larger fuel capacity. I just hope the old Onan keeps
running.

Richard Waters

>
> > power at home has been going out a lot lately. I utilized the generator of
> > the
> > coach to run the house a few times this Winter, but was limited to 2 20 AMP
> > circuits. I thought that if I had all 50 AMPS available to my house, I
> > would
> > be better off.
>
> Richard,
> Whatever you do, if you are supplying power into the house wiring from your
> GMC's generator, PLEASE be sure to install and use a proper transfer switch in
> your house. These switches make it physically impossible to connect the
> generator and utility company sources together, which could kill someone
> working on the lines, or overload/short out your generator. (That's why
> they're required by law, but I don't need laws to tell me when something is a
> real good idea!) Shutting off the house entrance switch is not enough, as
> someone could easily turn it back on by mistake, all too possible in an
> emergency situation.
> If you have frequent outages, or are real concerned over the Y2K thing, the
> transfer switch is worth the $$. OTOH, I'm just going to wire up my furnace
> with a cord and plug, so I can disconnect from the house wiring and plug into
> a (heavy) extension cord from the GMC. Either way, total separation is
> maintained.
> My .02, HTH.
>
> Rick Staples
> '75 Eleganza
> Louisville, CO
>
 
Walter,

Todd Engineering web site: http://www.toddengineering.com/

=========================
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 18:25:51 +0000
From: "Walter M. Drew"

Heinz, I have been trying to find more information about the TS-30..
Nothing on Jim Bounds site and various browsers produced a lot of
engineers named Todd. Help anyone.
==========================

As always, best regards.

~ Ritch & Betty Hwang ~ Clarkston, MI ~ mailto:rhwang
Visit our home page ~ http://www.concentric.net/~rhwang/
~ =^..^= Trinket ~ the shy Persian kitty ~
~ 76 GMC Birchaven ~ FMCA F249339 ~ RVClub 00930 ~ ICQ# 6408591~
(B}>
 
Zak:

The wiring you say is set up for two feeds refers to your new replacement
generator and not the Onan generators originally installed in the GMC,
right??? I'm told that only generators produced after approximately 1980,
have two circuits.

Original configuration of the four prong power cord receptacle, for the
shore power cord, has the two hot wires tied together from the generator,
does it not??

Paul Bartz

From: Zachary Zehnacker [mailto:zakz]
Sent: Sunday, February 14, 1999 8:33 PM
Subject: Re: GMC: Power Switch / TS30 relay

Heinz,
The capacity might not be as important as how it handles the circuits. The
GMC wiring is set up so that it gets two feeds from the 6K Onan. It gets
one 30 amp feed and one 20 amp feed. The 20 amp feed is mostly for the A/C
and some small appliances, while the 30 amp feed is mostly for everything
else. These circuits are kept totally separate. Even though our 23' came
with the 4K Onan which only provided the 30 amp service, it was still wired
for the separate circuits which made installing the 6K Honda much nicer.
I believe that the 50 amp transfer switch would keep them separate, but the
30 amp one would combine them. I suspect this is why the 50 amp one is so
much bigger. Do you know if this is true? I don't know if it would be good
to combine the two outputs of the Onan or not. I suspect, serious problems
could arise if you inadvertently got close to the 50 amp draw with it set up
like this. It might be easier to exceed 30 amps than you think. With the
A/C and Microwave on we would trip our 20 amp breaker. If you add the
converter's 7 amp draw or so, we were definitely higher than 30 amps total.
We have now moved everything over to the 30 amp service except for the A/C
and have not had any further problems.
As a side note, one of the adapters used only when plugging it into shore
power does combine the two circuits together so they both get power when
hooked to a normal 15-20 amp outlet. In this case, however, the shore
power's breaker is expected to limit the current to acceptable levels.

Richard,
I got a TS-30 and TS-50 from Jim Bounds last year. I actually only used the
time delay module as my Transmode has a switch-over relay similar to what's
used in the TS's already installed. ( The rest is now 'spare parts').
The TS-50 is large physically. Unless you have 2 AC's I would guess that
you'd never draw 50 amps when running on the GenSet.
The TS-30 may be ample for normal needs and is much easier to install.
The scheme of it is that by default, i.e. relay de-energized, the contacts
are closed to shore power. When GenSet is started the output is sensed by
the time delay and after a short time the relay is energized and coach
switches to GenSet power. The time delay is sufficient for the GenSet to be
stable before relay is energized.
It would be a simple retrofit as it's all in it's own enclosure.
If you need some measurements on the enclose, let me know.
Heinz
 
Paul,

You are probably right. Sorry. I assumed that since our 4K equipped GMC
was wired with the two services going back to the generator (actually tied
together at a box near the generator) that the 6K Onan kept them separate
like our new 6K Honda does. The big plug is also wired to keep them
separate (that is why it has the extra prong). One of the adapters added
to get to the smaller amp services also acts to combine the two services to
a single prong. GM must have been planning on using a generator with two
services as they definitely wired for it.

On a side note, since the GMC (ours anyway) is wired for the separate feeds
at the circuit box, a 30+20 transfer switch could still be used close to
the circuit box before the wires are combined for the generator.

Sorry if I caused any confusion,
Zak

>Zak:
>
>The wiring you say is set up for two feeds refers to your new replacement
>generator and not the Onan generators originally installed in the GMC,
>right??? I'm told that only generators produced after approximately 1980,
>have two circuits.
>
>Original configuration of the four prong power cord receptacle, for the
>shore power cord, has the two hot wires tied together from the generator,
>does it not??
>
> Paul Bartz
 
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