porous aluminum tranny pan

K

kab7

Active member
Sep 14, 2009
1,230
2
38
San Jose, CA
So, I got a ragusa transmission pan recently, and overall am really happy with it. One big problem though: it appears to be porous, and is leaking.
I know other folks have run into this before, but not sure what the fix is. Some kind of coating? A new pan??

Any suggestions?

thanks,
Karen
1975 26'
 
> So, I got a ragusa transmission pan recently, and overall am really happy
> with it. One big problem though: it appears to be porous, and is leaking.
> I know other folks have run into this before, but not sure what the fix
> is. Some kind of coating? A new pan??
>
> Any suggestions?
>

It needs a coating, I would ask manny 😀


> thanks,
> Karen
> 1975 26'
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
--
Gene Fisher -- 74-23,77PB/ore/ca
“Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today --- give him a URL and
-------
http://bdub.net/gmcmotorhome.info/
Alternator Protection Cable
http://bdub.net/gmcmotorhome.info/APC.html
 
Karen,

I reckon this paint will do the job:

http://www.eastwood.com/glyptal-red-enamel.html

Regards,
Rob M.
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
USA '77 Kingsley - TZE 267V100808

-----Original Message-----
From: Gmclist [mailto:gmclist-bounces] On Behalf Of KB
Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2017 11:02 PM
To: gmclist
Subject: [GMCnet] porous aluminum tranny pan

So, I got a ragusa transmission pan recently, and overall am really happy with it. One big problem though: it appears to be porous,
and is leaking.
I know other folks have run into this before, but not sure what the fix is. Some kind of coating? A new pan??

Any suggestions?

thanks,
Karen
1975 26'
 
I also have the Ragusa pan and the same issue.

Has anyone applied a coating? What type? Successful?

Thanks
--
Joe Ricke - KE0CPM
Arden Hills, MN
'77 Transmode
 
I'd get it from Applied... he stands behind his stuff.

--johnny
--
76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
"I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell" - ol Andy, paraphrased
 
3 thoughts come to mind:

1. Are you absolutely sure it is coming through the pan and not leaking from somewhere else? Not sure what you have done so far, but if it were me, I
would go through the other possible leak sources once again, before blaming the pan.

2. If you bought the Ragusa pan because the finned design assists with oil cooling, then coating it would degrade that somewhat as it would act as in
insulator. If you already have adequate trans fluid cooling on your rig for what you use it for, and just bought the pan for some other reason,
(Replace a damaged pan, increased oil capacity, etc) then this point is moot.

3. If you choose to coat it, I would be leary of coating a used pan on the inside --especially if it is porous. Getting all the oil out of the metal
would be difficult, and any oil left on or in the casting could cause the coating to fail. If it's on the outside, it would just flake off... On the
inside it could flake off an cause an issue with your transmission internals.

How much is it leaking? If it's just a drip or 2, I would probably just leave it and monitor my oil level, which is important in these coaches
anyway. More then that, I would probably not coat the inside, if it was me. If it's a new pan, I would probably consider contacting Ragusa, as the
best option would be to replace it, if it is weeping.
--
Mark S. '73 Painted Desert,
Manny 1 Ton Front End,
Howell Injection,
Leigh Harrison 4bag and Rear Brakes,
Fort Worth, TX
 
Karen, it would have better if you had asked this question BEFORE you
installed the pan. I could have saved you a few steps in this process. I
too have a Ragusa Pan on my transmission. It too seeped fluid. The casting
is porus and tranny fluid is very thin when it is warm. I removed my pan
with the intention of sealing it some way. I have a friend with a
transmission shop, and he has a handy dandy parts washer and special
solvents that gets rid of all traces of transmission fluid. After I paid
him a nominal sum to wash my pan, I coated it with 2 thick coats of GLYPTAL
INSULATING VARNISH. Then I baked it in my powder coating oven overnight at
125 degrees. The baking step speeds up the cure rate of the varnish. It
will air dry, but takes several days. I reinstalled the pan. It has been
several years and a couple of cross country trips and so far, no leaks.
Nothing is forever, but this comes close. I wouldn't try powder coating or
line-x bedliner. But, you do as you want. It is your money and time that
you are spending.
Jim Hupy

On Fri, Sep 22, 2017 at 7:09 AM, Mark Sawyer
wrote:

> 3 thoughts come to mind:
>
> 1. Are you absolutely sure it is coming through the pan and not leaking
> from somewhere else? Not sure what you have done so far, but if it were
> me, I
> would go through the other possible leak sources once again, before
> blaming the pan.
>
> 2. If you bought the Ragusa pan because the finned design assists with oil
> cooling, then coating it would degrade that somewhat as it would act as in
> insulator. If you already have adequate trans fluid cooling on your rig
> for what you use it for, and just bought the pan for some other reason,
> (Replace a damaged pan, increased oil capacity, etc) then this point is
> moot.
>
> 3. If you choose to coat it, I would be leary of coating a used pan on the
> inside --especially if it is porous. Getting all the oil out of the metal
> would be difficult, and any oil left on or in the casting could cause the
> coating to fail. If it's on the outside, it would just flake off... On the
> inside it could flake off an cause an issue with your transmission
> internals.
>
> How much is it leaking? If it's just a drip or 2, I would probably just
> leave it and monitor my oil level, which is important in these coaches
> anyway. More then that, I would probably not coat the inside, if it was
> me. If it's a new pan, I would probably consider contacting Ragusa, as the
> best option would be to replace it, if it is weeping.
> --
> Mark S. '73 Painted Desert,
> Manny 1 Ton Front End,
> Howell Injection,
> Leigh Harrison 4bag and Rear Brakes,
> Fort Worth, TX
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
 
> 3 thoughts come to mind:
>
> 1. Are you absolutely sure it is coming through the pan and not leaking from somewhere else? Not sure what you have done so far, but if it were
> me, I would go through the other possible leak sources once again, before blaming the pan.
>
> 2. If you bought the Ragusa pan because the finned design assists with oil cooling, then coating it would degrade that somewhat as it would act as
> in insulator. If you already have adequate trans fluid cooling on your rig for what you use it for, and just bought the pan for some other reason,
> (Replace a damaged pan, increased oil capacity, etc) then this point is moot.
>
> 3. If you choose to coat it, I would be leary of coating a used pan on the inside --especially if it is porous. Getting all the oil out of the
> metal would be difficult, and any oil left on or in the casting could cause the coating to fail. If it's on the outside, it would just flake off...
> On the inside it could flake off an cause an issue with your transmission internals.
>
> How much is it leaking? If it's just a drip or 2, I would probably just leave it and monitor my oil level, which is important in these coaches
> anyway. More then that, I would probably not coat the inside, if it was me. If it's a new pan, I would probably consider contacting Ragusa, as the
> best option would be to replace it, if it is weeping.

1. Yes, we can see the tiny leaks all over the surface of the pan. Every fin has a drop of fluid hanging on the end. I have
checked and replaced the gasket more than once.
2. I'd prefer to keep the cooling ability if possible, but the best feature is the drain plug. A non-insulating coating would be nice.
3. That's why I'm asking here. I know others have run into the problem before.
4. It's a significant leak. We have to put something under it or it'll make a big mess. We also check and top off the fluid before driving. It
needs to be fixed.

thanks,
Karen
1975 26'
 
> Karen, it would have better if you had asked this question BEFORE you
> installed the pan. I could have saved you a few steps in this process. I
> too have a Ragusa Pan on my transmission. It too seeped fluid. The casting
> is porus and tranny fluid is very thin when it is warm. I removed my pan
> with the intention of sealing it some way. I have a friend with a
> transmission shop, and he has a handy dandy parts washer and special
> solvents that gets rid of all traces of transmission fluid. After I paid
> him a nominal sum to wash my pan, I coated it with 2 thick coats of GLYPTAL
> INSULATING VARNISH. Then I baked it in my powder coating oven overnight at
> 125 degrees. The baking step speeds up the cure rate of the varnish. It
> will air dry, but takes several days. I reinstalled the pan. It has been
> several years and a couple of cross country trips and so far, no leaks.
> Nothing is forever, but this comes close. I wouldn't try powder coating or
> line-x bedliner. But, you do as you want. It is your money and time that
> you are spending.
> Jim Hupy

Thanks Jim. If I'd known before, I'd have bought a different pan. I'd prefer not to replace it at this point though, they ain't cheap.
I've also heard of using waterglass. Know anything about that? The only problem with the glyptal is it's insulating. Not a biggie,
but keeping the cooling ability would be nice. Gotta do something cuz it's a mess.

thanks!
Karen
 
FWIW, my Ragusa pan is tight as a drum and pan is dry as a bone.... If it's a new pan, I would contact the manufacturer. A properly cast pan, should
not leak. Not with today's casting techniques.... If this were a 75 yer old flathead with porosity issues, Glyptal it up. Or even if it was a used
Ragusa pan... But a new one? As you said, they are not inexpensive. I'd heard some recent Cadillacs had some porosity issues with their oilpans...
GM replaced them under warranty, from what I remember reading.

Any coating that sufficiently seals it, will insulate it to some degree.

I understand Ragusa is a small company, but a badly cast pan should be thrown on the recycle pile, imo.
--
Mark S. '73 Painted Desert,
Manny 1 Ton Front End,
Howell Injection,
Leigh Harrison 4bag and Rear Brakes,
Fort Worth, TX
 
Karen,

Back in the late 50s, I worked for a shop that had a contract to do the
machine
work on 3k aluminum castings that were the body for an oxygen regulator for
breathing oxygen for the USAF. After we finished, they went to the people
who assembled and tested them. We heard the castings were all porous.
We were ecstatic, as we thought we would get to do it over again. Alas, we
heard they treated them with waterglass and saved them. I once told Ken
Henderson that fact he was still alive proved that it worked. That's all I
know about the subject.

Gary Kosier
77PB w/500Cad
Newark, Ohio

--------------------------------------------------
From: "KB"
Sent: Friday, September 22, 2017 12:07 PM
To:
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] porous aluminum tranny pan

>> Karen, it would have better if you had asked this question BEFORE you
>> installed the pan. I could have saved you a few steps in this process. I
>> too have a Ragusa Pan on my transmission. It too seeped fluid. The
>> casting
>> is porus and tranny fluid is very thin when it is warm. I removed my pan
>> with the intention of sealing it some way. I have a friend with a
>> transmission shop, and he has a handy dandy parts washer and special
>> solvents that gets rid of all traces of transmission fluid. After I paid
>> him a nominal sum to wash my pan, I coated it with 2 thick coats of
>> GLYPTAL
>> INSULATING VARNISH. Then I baked it in my powder coating oven overnight
>> at
>> 125 degrees. The baking step speeds up the cure rate of the varnish. It
>> will air dry, but takes several days. I reinstalled the pan. It has been
>> several years and a couple of cross country trips and so far, no leaks.
>> Nothing is forever, but this comes close. I wouldn't try powder coating
>> or
>> line-x bedliner. But, you do as you want. It is your money and time that
>> you are spending.
>> Jim Hupy
>
>
> Thanks Jim. If I'd known before, I'd have bought a different pan. I'd
> prefer not to replace it at this point though, they ain't cheap.
> I've also heard of using waterglass. Know anything about that? The
> only problem with the glyptal is it's insulating. Not a biggie,
> but keeping the cooling ability would be nice. Gotta do something cuz
> it's a mess.
>
> thanks!
> Karen
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
 
Karen,

If it were a new pan, I'd probably vote for waterglass. But, like you, my
Ragusa pan (never yet installed by me) is used. I wouldn't have ANY
confidence that waterglass would penetrate and cure properly. Instead,
I've cleaned it as thoroughly with degreasers and pressure washing as
possible. It is, right now, undergoing 3 hours in a oven at 500*F. I'm
expecting that to bake out enough of the old ATF to enable glyptal to stick
to it. Checking sources for that glypal has been a shock -- $21.51 for 225
ml ( only problem with the glyptal is it's insulating. Not a biggie,
> but keeping the cooling ability would be nice. Gotta do something cuz
> it's a mess.
> ​...
>
 
Karen,

If you have a temp probe in the pan take some readings before you coat the pan, I'll bet dollars to donuts you won't see any
appreciable difference after you coat it.

Regards,
Rob M.
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
USA '77 Kingsley - TZE 267V100808


-----Original Message-----
From: Gmclist [mailto:gmclist-bounces] On Behalf Of KB
Sent: Friday, September 22, 2017 11:07 AM
To: gmclist
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] porous aluminum tranny pan

Thanks Jim. If I'd known before, I'd have bought a different pan. I'd prefer not to replace it at this point though, they ain't
cheap.
I've also heard of using waterglass. Know anything about that? The only problem with the glyptal is it's insulating. Not a
biggie, but keeping the cooling ability would be nice. Gotta do something cuz it's a mess.

thanks!
Karen
 
> The only problem with the glyptal is it's insulating.


Glyptal is an *electrically* insulating coating that was developed to coat parts that operate at high voltages such as in transformers, motors, generators or other electrical gear. “Insulating” - at least in terms of glyptal - refers to its electrical properties and not its thermal properties. A mm-thick or so coating isn’t going to make any difference at all in the ATF temperature.

And I, too have had an uncoated Ragusa pan that weeped ATF. JimK sent me another one that did not weep.

I would not hesitate for a second to coat the inside of a new tranny pan with Glyptal - it is used inside of engines fairly often.

Jim Miller
1977 Eleganza
1977 Royale
Hamilton, OH
 
>
> > The only problem with the glyptal is it's insulating.
>
>
> Glyptal is an *electrically* insulating coating that was developed to coat parts that operate at high voltages such as in transformers, motors,
> generators or other electrical gear. "Insulating" - at least in terms of glyptal - refers to its electrical properties and not its thermal
> properties. A mm-thick or so coating isn't going to make any difference at all in the ATF temperature.
>
> And I, too have had an uncoated Ragusa pan that weeped ATF. JimK sent me another one that did not weep.
>
> I would not hesitate for a second to coat the inside of a new tranny pan with Glyptal - it is used inside of engines fairly often.


ahh, that makes sense. Thank you.


Karen
1975 26'
 
I just now wrote to Ragusa about it. They apologized and said I could send it back and they'd send me a new one.
So, I'll try that route first. If it still leaks, I'll do the glyptal route. Or maybe if I can find some glyptal
for a less than ruinous price, I'll do a pre-emptive coating just to be sure. I've only seen it in $50/quart size so far,
and I don't think I'll need that much.

thanks for all the help,

Karen
1975 26'
 
I had the same problem. Removed the pan three times. $150 in ATF later I found that the Final drive gasket was the problem. A single drop off ATF will cover everything under the hood. A few drops and you think everything is leaking.  Check the Final drive gasket b4 you go any further. I had to super clean everything with brake clean and lay under the coach for half an hour b4 I found it.

Happy Connecting. Sent from my Sprint Samsung Galaxy S® 5 Sport

-------- Original message --------
From: KB
Date: 9/22/17 12:01 PM (GMT-05:00)
To: gmclist
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] porous aluminum tranny pan

> 3 thoughts come to mind:
>
> 1. Are you absolutely sure it is coming through the pan and not leaking from somewhere else?  Not sure what you have done so far, but if it were
> me, I would go through the other possible leak sources once again, before blaming the pan.
>
> 2. If you bought the Ragusa pan because the finned design assists with oil cooling, then coating it would degrade that somewhat as it would act as
> in insulator.  If you already have adequate trans fluid cooling on your rig for what you use it for, and just bought the pan for some other reason,
> (Replace a damaged pan, increased oil capacity, etc) then this point is moot. 
>
> 3. If you choose to coat it, I would be leary of coating a used pan on the inside --especially if it is porous.  Getting all the oil out of the
> metal would be difficult, and any oil left on or in the casting could cause the coating to fail.  If it's on the outside, it would just flake off...
>  On the inside it could flake off an cause an issue with your transmission internals.
>
> How much is it leaking?  If it's just a drip or 2, I would probably just leave it and monitor my oil level, which is important in these coaches
> anyway.  More then that, I would probably not coat the inside, if it was me.  If it's a new pan, I would probably consider contacting Ragusa, as the
> best option would be to replace it, if it is weeping.

1. Yes, we can see the tiny leaks all over the surface of the pan.  Every fin has a drop of fluid hanging on the end.  I have
    checked and replaced the gasket more than once.
2. I'd prefer to keep the cooling ability if possible, but the best feature is the drain plug.  A non-insulating coating would be nice.
3. That's why I'm asking here.  I know others have run into the problem before.
4. It's a significant leak.  We have to put something under it or it'll make a big mess.  We also check and top off the fluid before driving.   It
needs to be fixed.

thanks,
Karen
1975 26'

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GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
 
Karen,

Here you go, it's a bit cheaper:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Glyptal-Red-Insulating-Enamal-spray-paint-1201E-A2-/192304109580?hash=item2cc637d80c:g:N2AAAOSwd7xZttW9

Regards,
Rob M.
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
USA '77 Kingsley - TZE 267V100808


-----Original Message-----
From: Gmclist [mailto:gmclist-bounces] On Behalf Of KB
Sent: Friday, September 22, 2017 5:32 PM
To: gmclist
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] porous aluminum tranny pan

I just now wrote to Ragusa about it. They apologized and said I could send it back and they'd send me a new one.
So, I'll try that route first. If it still leaks, I'll do the glyptal route. Or maybe if I can find some glyptal
for a less than ruinous price, I'll do a pre-emptive coating just to be sure. I've only seen it in $50/quart size so far,
and I don't think I'll need that much.

thanks for all the help,

Karen
1975 26'

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GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
 
Ken:
If you live in California, you cannot buy Glyptal locally. The VOC's are too high, but for what it is, there is NO substitute.

----- Original Message -----

From: "Ken Henderson"
To: "GMC Mail List"
Sent: Friday, September 22, 2017 10:26:06 AM
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] porous aluminum tranny pan

Karen,

If it were a new pan, I'd probably vote for waterglass. But, like you, my
Ragusa pan (never yet installed by me) is used. I wouldn't have ANY
confidence that waterglass would penetrate and cure properly. Instead,
I've cleaned it as thoroughly with degreasers and pressure washing as
possible. It is, right now, undergoing 3 hours in a oven at 500*F. I'm
expecting that to bake out enough of the old ATF to enable glyptal to stick
to it. Checking sources for that glypal has been a shock -- $21.51 for 225
ml ( only problem with the glyptal is it's insulating. Not a biggie,
> but keeping the cooling ability would be nice. Gotta do something cuz
> it's a mess.
> ​...
>
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Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
 
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