OUCH Bad Oil Analysis

Sorry Corey,

Jim is right and I missed that wet test line.....

You might was well get ready take the engine out.

Whether you go out the top, the bottom or the front, is up to you. That is more determined by the facility you have available. Each has its
advantages. If you tell us what you plan, we can provide a lot of advice that will reduce your effort. I am at the very outer edge of striking
range, but things could be possibly be worked out.

So, please come back and tell us about the plan. I am sure we can save you some problems.

Matt

--
Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
 
Matt,

While I'm not yet committed to the prospect of engine removal yet, clearly I've been thinking about it. My facility includes a 1,200 sqft garage that
i can't get in because the doors are barely taller than I am. So gravel driveway is really what I'm looking at for the removal and replacement
stages. It has served me well for gas tanks, bogie assembly, final drive, and steering box r&r so far, but I'm probably not going to be comfortable
jacking the coach high enough to get the engine out. I don't have the "i need to work on the front suspension anyways" excuse to compel me to roll the
front clip out from underneath because the front suspension and brakes have been completely redone and some hot work even done on the subframe to
correct a small rust issue. Still has fresh paint. Nothing that needs to be addressed there. I think I'd be looking at gantry/trolley out the door.
Would appreciate feedback though. Also would appreciate knowing whether anyone nearby could loan the required rigs to get the engine to the door.

--
Corey P /

Hilliard, OH /
1974 Glacier 26' /
3.70 FD /
ION Wheels
 
Leave the coach on its wheels, borrow or make a trolley, and pull the engine out the top. To me, that's the easiest way anyway if you're only
removing the engine. Leaves the transmission and driveline in place and unmolested. DOS Tip: If you take the radiator out first it's a lot easier.

--johnny
--
Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
 
Cory, I've changed 3 engines, 1 out the bottom and 2 out the top.=C2=A0 It =
is significantly less work to take it out the top.=C2=A0 We can discuss pri=
vately if you have any questions.=C2=A0Ray Erspamer=C2=A0Sent from my U.S.=
Cellular=C2=A9 Smartphone -------- Original message --------From: Corey v=
ia Gmclist Date: 12/20/20 10:21 PM (GMT-06:00) =
To: gmclist Cc: Corey Subject: Re: [=
GMCnet] OUCH Bad Oil Analysis Matt, While I'm not yet committed to the pros=
pect of engine removal yet, clearly I've been thinking about it. My facilit=
y includes a 1,200 sqft garage thati can't get in because the doors are bar=
ely taller than I am.=C2=A0 So gravel driveway is really what I'm looking a=
t for the removal and replacementstages. It has served me well for gas tank=
s,=C2=A0 bogie assembly, final drive,=C2=A0 and steering box r&r so far, bu=
t I'm probably not going to be comfortablejacking the coach high enough to =
get the engine out. I don't have the "i need to work on the front suspensio=
n anyways" excuse to compel me to roll thefront clip out from underneath be=
cause the front suspension and brakes have been completely redone and some =
hot work even done on the subframe tocorrect a small rust issue. Still has =
fresh paint. Nothing that needs to be addressed there.=C2=A0 I think I'd be=
looking at gantry/trolley out the door.Would appreciate feedback though. A=
lso would appreciate knowing whether anyone nearby could loan the required =
rigs to get the engine to the door. -- Corey P / Hilliard, OH / 1974 Glacie=
r 26' / 3.70 FD / ION Wheels_______________________________________________=
GMCnet mailing listUnsubscribe or Change List Options:http://list.gmcnet.or=
g/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
 
So, I found out the hard way that even with new technology, you still need to use your senses correctly. The bright line that appeared to be some kind
of scar on the cylinder wall was actually a reflection from the oil that had pooled in the piston dish from my wet compression test. But the fact is
still that I had low compression in #4 cylinder. I got a few comments from forum readers, including Dick Patterson, that it may just be a stuck ring.
So I began a combination of seafoam into the spark plug hole, rislone in the crankcase and several successive oil changes. Since I LOVE wasting money
on something I am immediately disposing of, I actually did 5 oil changes. I'll be damned if I didn't get compression in #4 back up to 140 like the
others! Now... the downside... Throughout this process, I obviously was paying very close attention to the condition of the oil. For each of the oil
changes (average 10 miles or so on each one), I observed small "sparklies" in the oil. There were really only visible under direct, bright LED light.
Otherwise, I'm not sure I would have been able to see them. They were observed both in the filter and in the drained oil. Most do not seem to be
ferrous/magnetic and may have a copper/brass tint. Here's a video: https://youtu.be/BfCklNVAVGM

Here's what I dont get... if this thing is tearing itself apart quickly enough to shed particles like this, how on earth is it running so well? On the
last oil change I made a lap around 270 in columbus, 55 miles doing 70 most of the time (3,000 + rpm) and it did just fine. Are there any noises? Yes,
but Any noise I've been able to pick up on has not been definitive. Most of the noises I am getting come and go. Using a mechanics Stethoscope, the
loudest thing i can hear is the fuel pump which sounds like a little man with a miniature hammer.

Oil pressure has been pretty consistent: 50 psi cold start, 40 psi warm idle in park, 30 psi hot idle in park, as low as 20 psi hot idle in gear, and
35-42 psi cruising at 2,900 RPM depending on temperature of the oil.

On one hand, now is the perfect time of year to pull the engine and do a rebuild, but on the other hand, I've been trying to get better at "if it
ain't broke dont fix it", as I tend to be on the overly cautious side historically. Leading to many automotive repairs that, in retrospect, probably
didn't need to happen.

Is it possible someone spun a bearing years ago and I'm still flushing out particles that weren't cleaned out properly? Is there anything besides cam,
rod and main bearings that would shed copper-looking particles? Distributor gear?

--
Corey P /

Hilliard, OH /
1974 Glacier 26' /
3.70 FD /
ION Wheels
 
If you have a bronze distributor gear, get rid of it. Particularly if you
have replaced the original camshaft with a roller setup. Those cam blanks
are steel, as are MOST of the distributor gears. The most compatible
distributor gear is a mehinite one.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Oregon

On Sun, Dec 27, 2020, 2:54 PM Corey via Gmclist
wrote:

> So, I found out the hard way that even with new technology, you still need
> to use your senses correctly. The bright line that appeared to be some kind
> of scar on the cylinder wall was actually a reflection from the oil that
> had pooled in the piston dish from my wet compression test. But the fact is
> still that I had low compression in #4 cylinder. I got a few comments from
> forum readers, including Dick Patterson, that it may just be a stuck ring.
> So I began a combination of seafoam into the spark plug hole, rislone in
> the crankcase and several successive oil changes. Since I LOVE wasting money
> on something I am immediately disposing of, I actually did 5 oil changes.
> I'll be damned if I didn't get compression in #4 back up to 140 like the
> others! Now... the downside... Throughout this process, I obviously was
> paying very close attention to the condition of the oil. For each of the oil
> changes (average 10 miles or so on each one), I observed small "sparklies"
> in the oil. There were really only visible under direct, bright LED light.
> Otherwise, I'm not sure I would have been able to see them. They were
> observed both in the filter and in the drained oil. Most do not seem to be
> ferrous/magnetic and may have a copper/brass tint. Here's a video:
> https://youtu.be/BfCklNVAVGM
>
> Here's what I dont get... if this thing is tearing itself apart quickly
> enough to shed particles like this, how on earth is it running so well? On
> the
> last oil change I made a lap around 270 in columbus, 55 miles doing 70
> most of the time (3,000 + rpm) and it did just fine. Are there any noises?
> Yes,
> but Any noise I've been able to pick up on has not been definitive. Most
> of the noises I am getting come and go. Using a mechanics Stethoscope, the
> loudest thing i can hear is the fuel pump which sounds like a little man
> with a miniature hammer.
>
> Oil pressure has been pretty consistent: 50 psi cold start, 40 psi warm
> idle in park, 30 psi hot idle in park, as low as 20 psi hot idle in gear,
> and
> 35-42 psi cruising at 2,900 RPM depending on temperature of the oil.
>
> On one hand, now is the perfect time of year to pull the engine and do a
> rebuild, but on the other hand, I've been trying to get better at "if it
> ain't broke dont fix it", as I tend to be on the overly cautious side
> historically. Leading to many automotive repairs that, in retrospect,
> probably
> didn't need to happen.
>
> Is it possible someone spun a bearing years ago and I'm still flushing out
> particles that weren't cleaned out properly? Is there anything besides cam,
> rod and main bearings that would shed copper-looking particles?
> Distributor gear?
>
> --
> Corey P /
>
> Hilliard, OH /
> 1974 Glacier 26' /
> 3.70 FD /
> ION Wheels
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
 
My opinion is to not pull the engine.=C2=A0 Just run it.Sent from my U.S.C=
ellular=C2=A9 Smartphone -------- Original message --------From: Corey vi=
a Gmclist Date: 12/27/20 4:54 PM (GMT-06:00) To=
: gmclist Cc: Corey Subject: Re: [GM=
Cnet] OUCH Bad Oil Analysis So, I found out the hard way that even with new=
technology, you still need to use your senses correctly. The bright line t=
hat appeared to be some kindof scar on the cylinder wall was actually a ref=
lection from the oil that had pooled in the piston dish from my wet compres=
sion test. But the fact isstill that I had low compression in #4 cylinder. =
I got a few comments from forum readers, including Dick Patterson, that it =
may just be a stuck ring.So I began a combination of seafoam into the spark=
plug hole, rislone in the crankcase and several successive oil changes. Si=
nce I LOVE wasting moneyon something I am immediately disposing of, I actua=
lly did 5 oil changes. I'll be damned if I didn't get compression in #4 bac=
k up to 140 like theothers! Now... the downside... Throughout this process,=
I obviously was paying very close attention to the condition of the oil. F=
or each of the oilchanges (average 10 miles or so on each one), I observed =
small "sparklies" in the oil. There were really only visible under direct, =
bright LED light.Otherwise,=C2=A0 I'm not sure I would have been able to se=
e them. They were observed both in the filter and in the drained oil. Most =
do not seem to beferrous/magnetic and may have a copper/brass tint. Here's =
a video: https://youtu.be/BfCklNVAVGMHere's what I dont get... if this thin=
g is tearing itself apart quickly enough to shed particles like this, how o=
n earth is it running so well? On thelast oil change I made a lap around 27=
0 in columbus, 55 miles doing 70 most of the time (3,000 + rpm) and it did =
just fine. Are there any noises? Yes,but Any noise I've been able to pick u=
p on has not been definitive. Most of the noises I am getting come and go. =
Using a mechanics Stethoscope, theloudest thing i can hear is the fuel pump=
which sounds like a little man with a miniature hammer.Oil pressure has be=
en pretty consistent: 50 psi cold start, 40 psi warm idle in park, 30 psi h=
ot idle in park, as low as 20 psi hot idle in gear, and35-42 psi cruising a=
t 2,900 RPM depending on temperature of the oil.On one hand,=C2=A0 now is t=
he perfect time of year to pull the engine and do a rebuild,=C2=A0 but on t=
he other hand, I've been trying to get better at "if itain't broke dont fix=
it", as I tend to be on the overly cautious side historically. Leading to =
many automotive repairs that, in retrospect, probablydidn't need to happen.=
Is it possible someone spun a bearing years ago and I'm still flushing out =
particles that weren't cleaned out properly? Is there anything besides cam,=
rod and main bearings that would shed copper-looking particles? Distributor=
gear? -- Corey P / Hilliard, OH / 1974 Glacier 26' / 3.70 FD / ION Wheels_=
______________________________________________GMCnet mailing listUnsubscrib=
e or Change List Options:http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_li=
st.gmcnet.org
 
I'm with Ray on this. Put in a good grade of oil with a Wix filter, and run it 1000 miles for the next Blackstone analysis. Without getting into an
oil war, try any of the following oils:

10W40 Valvoline MaxLife High Mileage, synthetic blend (red bottle)
5W30 Quaker State Ultimate Durability, synthetic (green bottle)
0W40 Mobil 1 “FS” European Car Formula, synthetic
5W30 Amsoil Signature Series, synthetic (This is expensive stuff but not that much better at resisting wear than others on the list)
5W30 Valvoline Full Synthetic High Mileage with MaxLife Technology (silver bottle)
5W30 Mobil 1, Advanced Full Synthetic
10W30 Mobil 1, Advanced Full Synthetic

No guarantees that any of these oils will prevent an engine failure, but they are all well rated for wear resistance. When you send in your next
Blackstone, point out the copper colored flecks you noted in the oil, asking them to comment specifically on it. I'd also add a "Filter Mag" to the
oil filter, but do it AFTER the next Blackstone. Just What I'd Do. (JWID)
--
Larry
78 Royale w/500 Caddy
Menomonie, WI.
 
If I was facing this problem I might consider the possibility that the oil cooler was contaminated. Before I pulled the engine I would pull the
radiator and have the coolers professionally cleaned. There is also the possibility that at low outside temps the oil cooler can be bypassed. After
a couple of quick oil changes with a detergent like Marvel Mystery Oil or your favorite put in some good oil with a Wix filter. Drive a bunch of
miles and send a sample to be analyzed. Many folks believe that a contaminated cooler can’t be cleaned. After market air cooled units can do
wonders.
 
I run 2 oil filters and I use nothing but Wix.I have the normal filter and I have an auxiliary filter on the cooler return line.  No specific reason, it just makes me more comfortable. I run Quaker State 5W30 Ultimate Durability Synthetic oil.RaySent from my U.S.Cellular© Smartphone
-------- Original message --------From: Paul Nadel via Gmclist Date: 12/28/20 7:17 PM (GMT-06:00) To: gmclist Cc: Paul Nadel Subject: Re: [GMCnet] OUCH Bad Oil Analysis If I was facing this problem I might consider the possibility that the oil cooler was contaminated.  Before I pulled the engine I would pull theradiator and have the coolers professionally cleaned.  There is also the possibility that at low outside temps the oil cooler can be bypassed.  Aftera couple of quick oil changes with a detergent like Marvel Mystery Oil or your favorite put in some good oil with a Wix filter.  Drive a bunch ofmiles and send a sample to be analyzed.  Many folks believe that a contaminated cooler can’t be cleaned.  After market air cooled units can dowonders._______________________________________________GMCnet mailing listUnsubscribe or Change List Options:http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
 
Quit guessing, get an oil analysis done

Keith Vasilakes
Mounds View MN
76 exRoyale
MicroLevelhttp://www.gmcmotorhomemarketplace.com/vasilakes/microlevel_intro.pdf

________________________________
From: Gmclist on behalf of 78gmcroyale via Gmclist
Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2020 8:46 AM
To: gmclist
Cc: 78gmcroyale
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] OUCH Bad Oil Analysis

I run 2 oil filters and I use nothing but Wix.I have the normal filter and I have an auxiliary filter on the cooler return line. No specific reason, it just makes me more comfortable. I run Quaker State 5W30 Ultimate Durability Synthetic oil.RaySent from my U.S.Cellular© Smartphone
-------- Original message --------From: Paul Nadel via Gmclist Date: 12/28/20 7:17 PM (GMT-06:00) To: gmclist Cc: Paul Nadel Subject: Re: [GMCnet] OUCH Bad Oil Analysis If I was facing this problem I might consider the possibility that the oil cooler was contaminated. Before I pulled the engine I would pull theradiator and have the coolers professionally cleaned. There is also the possibility that at low outside temps the oil cooler can be bypassed. Aftera couple of quick oil changes with a detergent like Marvel Mystery Oil or your favorite put in some good oil with a Wix filter. Drive a bunch ofmiles and send a sample to be analyzed. Many folks believe that a contaminated cooler can’t be cleaned. After market air cooled units can dowonders._______________________________________________GMCnet mailing listUnsubscribe or Change List Options:http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
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