Onan Battery

dave lowry

New member
Jul 7, 1998
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Our coach has a single battery in the back which is only used to start the
Onan and which now won't hold a charge. I'm not sure I need to replace it.
The answers to a couple questions will help me to have the right thing done.

1) Since even with the dead battery we can start the Onan when the 455 is
running, doesn't that tell me the back battery is charged by the alternator?

2) How could we rewire it so the engine's starting battery was also used to
start to the Onan? (We could sure use the battery space for storage.)

TIA

Dave (advisor/navigator) & Dege (everything else), '76 Royale, Santa
Barbara, CA
 
>> Our coach has a single battery in the back which is only used to
>> start the Onan and which now won't hold a charge. I'm not sure I need
>to
>> replace it.
>> The answers to a couple questions will help me to have the right
>> thing done.
>>
>> 1) Since even with the dead battery we can start the Onan when the
>> 455 is running, doesn't that tell me the back battery is charged by the
>
>> alternator?
>>
>> 2) How could we rewire it so the engine's starting battery was also
>> used to
>> start to the Onan? (We could sure use the battery space for
>> storage.)
>>
>> TIA
>>
>> Dave (advisor/navigator) & Dege (everything else), '76 Royale, Santa
>> Barbara, CA
>>

>If your arms are long enough (or Dege will help) you can start your Onan
>by using the battery boost switch on the dash.
>
>If your rear battery doesn't hold a charge you may have a dead cell. If
>the battery is okay but not holding a charge you may have a current draw.
>The rear battery isn't there to just start your Onan is it? Isn't it your
>house battery as well?
>
>I should add that I am not familiar with the way Coachmen set up their
>battery systems.
>
> David Lee Greenberg
> GMC Motorhome Registry
>Dedicated to the preservation of the Classic GMC
> http://www.gmcss.com/registry.htm

Dave, we haven't tried that, but since the starting battery won't turn over
the Onan, I doubt hitting the boost switch would do any good.

The "house" power comes from 2 6 volt golf cart batteries up front next to
the starting battery. I think the one in back is just for the Onan. It was
this way when we bought it, except there was a 12v for house power.

Thanks,

Dave (advisor/navigator) & Dege (everything else), '76 Royale, Santa
Barbara, CA
 
>Dave and Dave: My 23' 1973 Glacier also has a battery in the back and it is
>used to only start the Onan. The way mine is wired it does get charged by the
>alternator, and the 110 to 12 volt charger/converter plugged in to outside
>source or when the generator is running. It is normal with a run down rear
>bat to be able to start it with the engine running. In lieu of running a main
>battery cable to the back, replace the battery.
>Am I glad I didn't open any of the voodoo posts or what. Dean Hanson's
>73-23-gmc.

Dean or ??, there's a heavy cable running from the firewall back to rear
battery. Could that be just to carry the charge current, or could that also
be used to start the Onan? Do we really need this battery, or is it either
a new battery or run a new cable from the front batteries to the Onan?

Dave (advisor/navigator) & Dege (everything else), '76 Royale, Santa
Barbara, CA
 
Typically the rear battery supplies house power, and the front runs the chassis.
There is a diode isolator on the firewall which allows the engine to charge
both batteries, but not to draw from the rear battery, or vice-versa, under
normal conditions. This is to ensure that if your house battery goes flat,
for whatever reason, that you can still start the coach. In the event that
the coach battery dies, the bypass switch on the instrument panel will actuate
a contactor on the firewall to allow you to start the coach from the rear
battery - this is why the cable is so heavy. Onan start comes from the rear
battery (normall), and the power converter charges just the rear battery.
In a pinch, you can use the bypass switch the other way to start the Onan,
but it would be better just to start the coach engine first, so you run no
chance of two dead batteries!

Also, the rear battery is typically a golf cart or other deep discharge battery
designed for lower amperages and much deeper cycles that the engine battery.
The engine battery will fail much more rapidly if put into this type of service
than it normally would - starting batteries are designed for very brief high
current output, and not to be discharged too deeply - the exact opposite
of the way the house battery is typically used.

Lastly, unless your coach has been severely modified, the back battery feeds
does much more than start the Onan (see above) and as such should remain in
place. If this coach has been greatly modified, then my comments indicate
what was present when it was built, and perhaps the state that you should
consider rewiring back to, if needed.

- - Tim

> >Dave and Dave: My 23' 1973 Glacier also has a battery in the back and it is
> >used to only start the Onan. The way mine is wired it does get charged by the
> >alternator, and the 110 to 12 volt charger/converter plugged in to outside
> >source or when the generator is running. It is normal with a run down rear
> >bat to be able to start it with the engine running. In lieu of running a main
> >battery cable to the back, replace the battery.
> >Am I glad I didn't open any of the voodoo posts or what. Dean Hanson's
> >73-23-gmc.
>
> Dean or ??, there's a heavy cable running from the firewall back to rear
> battery. Could that be just to carry the charge current, or could that also
> be used to start the Onan? Do we really need this battery, or is it either
> a new battery or run a new cable from the front batteries to the Onan?
>
> Dave (advisor/navigator) & Dege (everything else), '76 Royale, Santa
> Barbara, CA
>
>
>

- --
================================================================================
Tim Dawson (tadawson) Owner/Engineer
TPC Services Bellnet: (972)-221-7385
Lewisville, Texas 75067 FAXnet: (972)-221-0393
"The world is complex. Sendmail.cf reflects this...."
 
Yup, I understand perfectly, although if you did not have the two sticks,
you could have just started the coach engine, let the rear recharge a bit
through the isolator, and then started the Onan that way . . . .

- - Tim

> > PS the boost will not do any good as you need to 'charge' the rear
> > battery with the alternator. Dean
>
> In my GM finshed coach when I excercise the boost switch it puts all
> batteries, good and questionable in the same circuit.
>
> I recall once when my house battery was bad and I wanted to start my
> Onan, I used two long dowels, using one to push the Onan start switch and
> the other to push the battery boost switch on the dash. This worked and
> enabled me to start the Onan which then recharged my House/Onan
> battery.(after a long time running!)
>
> Does anyone understand what I just said? Hmmmn?
>
> David Lee Greenberg
> GMC Motorhome Registry
> Dedicated to the preservation of the Classic GMC
> http://www.gmcss.com/registry.htm
>

- --
================================================================================
Tim Dawson (tadawson) Owner/Engineer
TPC Services Bellnet: (972)-221-7385
Lewisville, Texas 75067 FAXnet: (972)-221-0393
"The world is complex. Sendmail.cf reflects this...."
 
My 76 also had the large 4D battery in the rear. The rear was the house battery
and the Onan start battery. The heavy cable is to supply alternator power to the
battery and to the house while the engine is running. You have power to start the
Onan when the engine is running because of this. Replace the 4D with 2 6V's and
use them as house batteries and as a starter battery for the Onan. My opinion
only. The 4D battery is not a deep cycle battery. It has a lot of power but it
is not deep cycle. The Onan will not need high amperage to start so the 2 6V's
will work fine. Darren

> >Dave and Dave: My 23' 1973 Glacier also has a battery in the back and it is
> >used to only start the Onan. The way mine is wired it does get charged by the
> >alternator, and the 110 to 12 volt charger/converter plugged in to outside
> >source or when the generator is running. It is normal with a run down rear
> >bat to be able to start it with the engine running. In lieu of running a main
> >battery cable to the back, replace the battery.
> >Am I glad I didn't open any of the voodoo posts or what. Dean Hanson's
> >73-23-gmc.
>
> Dean or ??, there's a heavy cable running from the firewall back to rear
> battery. Could that be just to carry the charge current, or could that also
> be used to start the Onan? Do we really need this battery, or is it either
> a new battery or run a new cable from the front batteries to the Onan?
>
> Dave (advisor/navigator) & Dege (everything else), '76 Royale, Santa
> Barbara, CA

- --
Darren Paget
76 Experimental
Another Fab Day
http://www.TZEplus.com
 
>My 76 also had the large 4D battery in the rear. The rear was the house
>battery
>and the Onan start battery. The heavy cable is to supply alternator power
>to the
>battery and to the house while the engine is running. You have power to
>start the
>Onan when the engine is running because of this. Replace the 4D with 2
>6V's and
>use them as house batteries and as a starter battery for the Onan. My opinion
>only. The 4D battery is not a deep cycle battery. It has a lot of power
>but it
>is not deep cycle. The Onan will not need high amperage to start so the 2 6V's
>will work fine. Darren

Darren, if I end up getting rid of the rear battery, we'll be looking for
you to produce a nice weatherproof storage box to fill that space.

While I'm making suggestions (yea I know, I could do this on your site),
what happened to the above the windshield shelf? You could install both of
these at one on the north western rallies this fall.

Stay busy,

Dave (advisor/navigator) & Dege (ALL else), '76 Royale, Santa Barbara, CA
 
> Our coach has a single battery in the back which is only used to
> start the Onan and which now won't hold a charge. I'm not sure I need
to
> replace it.
> The answers to a couple questions will help me to have the right
> thing done.
>
> 1) Since even with the dead battery we can start the Onan when the
> 455 is running, doesn't that tell me the back battery is charged by the

> alternator?
>
> 2) How could we rewire it so the engine's starting battery was also
> used to
> start to the Onan? (We could sure use the battery space for
> storage.)
>
> TIA
>
> Dave (advisor/navigator) & Dege (everything else), '76 Royale, Santa
> Barbara, CA
>
>
If your arms are long enough (or Dege will help) you can start your Onan
by using the battery boost switch on the dash.

If your rear battery doesn't hold a charge you may have a dead cell. If
the battery is okay but not holding a charge you may have a current draw.
The rear battery isn't there to just start your Onan is it? Isn't it your
house battery as well?

I should add that I am not familiar with the way Coachmen set up their
battery systems.

David Lee Greenberg
GMC Motorhome Registry
Dedicated to the preservation of the Classic GMC
http://www.gmcss.com/registry.htm
 
Hey, I like the storage box idea. The over the windshield shelf is in my coach
now. I am going to be revamping it for the rallies. I think I can do better than
what I now have. I am bringing a whole bunch of stuff to those two rallies. See
you there. Darren

> >My 76 also had the large 4D battery in the rear. The rear was the house
> >battery
> >and the Onan start battery. The heavy cable is to supply alternator power
> >to the
> >battery and to the house while the engine is running. You have power to
> >start the
> >Onan when the engine is running because of this. Replace the 4D with 2
> >6V's and
> >use them as house batteries and as a starter battery for the Onan. My opinion
> >only. The 4D battery is not a deep cycle battery. It has a lot of power
> >but it
> >is not deep cycle. The Onan will not need high amperage to start so the 2 6V's
> >will work fine. Darren
>
> Darren, if I end up getting rid of the rear battery, we'll be looking for
> you to produce a nice weatherproof storage box to fill that space.
>
> While I'm making suggestions (yea I know, I could do this on your site),
> what happened to the above the windshield shelf? You could install both of
> these at one on the north western rallies this fall.
>
> Stay busy,
>
> Dave (advisor/navigator) & Dege (ALL else), '76 Royale, Santa Barbara, CA

- --
Darren Paget
76 Experimental
Another Fab Day
http://www.TZEplus.com
 
> PS the boost will not do any good as you need to 'charge' the rear
> battery with the alternator. Dean

In my GM finshed coach when I excercise the boost switch it puts all
batteries, good and questionable in the same circuit.

I recall once when my house battery was bad and I wanted to start my
Onan, I used two long dowels, using one to push the Onan start switch and
the other to push the battery boost switch on the dash. This worked and
enabled me to start the Onan which then recharged my House/Onan
battery.(after a long time running!)

Does anyone understand what I just said? Hmmmn?

David Lee Greenberg
GMC Motorhome Registry
Dedicated to the preservation of the Classic GMC
http://www.gmcss.com/registry.htm
 
duane (mr onan) wrote something up here about 2 weeks ago on how todo this
rewire for the folks that had a seperate Onan batt. I am on the road but I
will look it up Monday.
gene

>

>
>
 
Dave:
I sorry, I can't help it but I must ask; do you have any relatives named
Rueben Goldberg? Why not have a friend push one button while you push the
other or just start the engine and let it charge the house battery? Two
long dowels along for emergencies, I thought you were the one that had the
emergency kit that consisted of the Black List and a credit card. Please
don't take this funin' the wrong way. After all, I knew and understood
exactly what you were talking about.
Bob McLaughlin

- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-gmcmotorhome
[mailto:owner-gmcmotorhome]On Behalf Of
davegreenberg1
Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2000 8:07 PM
To: gmcmotorhome
Subject: Re: GMC: Onan Battery

> PS the boost will not do any good as you need to 'charge' the rear
> battery with the alternator. Dean

In my GM finshed coach when I excercise the boost switch it puts all
batteries, good and questionable in the same circuit.

I recall once when my house battery was bad and I wanted to start my
Onan, I used two long dowels, using one to push the Onan start switch and
the other to push the battery boost switch on the dash. This worked and
enabled me to start the Onan which then recharged my House/Onan
battery.(after a long time running!)

Does anyone understand what I just said? Hmmmn?

David Lee Greenberg
GMC Motorhome Registry
Dedicated to the preservation of the Classic GMC
http://www.gmcss.com/registry.htm
 
On Thu, 11 May 2000 23:39:24 -0500 "Bob Mclaughlin"

> Dave:
> I sorry, I can't help it but I must ask; do you have any relatives
> named Rueben Goldberg? Why not have a friend push one button while you

> push the other or just start the engine and let it charge the house
battery?
> Two long dowels along for emergencies,

Except Rueben would have done this using a toaster or hair dryer, right?

I only had to do this once but there was no one else around and it was
simple and expedient. That is not to say I don't carry dowels with me but
they are used as a backup security system for the window locks!

David Lee Greenberg
GMC Motorhome Registry
200 MacFarlane Drive
Delray Beach, FL 33483-6829
http://www.gmcss.com/registry.htm