OK, next Onan question

K

Ken B

Well-known member
Oct 9, 2002
16,833
280
83
The generator has lot of non-standard wiring. I think I have found most of it. The last (I hoped) problem was would not start for either start
switch. It would crank. I found a damaged molex connector pin and repaired that after a couple of hours of diagnosis time. Then it would not stop.
I found a wiring error at the disconnected regulator. This 1976 so the regulator is not necessary.

I have been running 5 to 9 to get the pump and ignition running. With that pin repaired it would start / run and not stop. That took me several
hours with the help of one of the airport employees to find. We have had just about every friend and airport employee over there including the airport
manager over there helping.

Now we have the start and immediately stop issue, which is indicative of no alternator (30VAC) to the board or oil pressure. I was probing pin 8 to
pin 11 and found the 30VAC missing and blew the last fuse that I had.

So off to the store to buy some more fuses. By the time I got back it was dark and starting to rain. So we quit for the night.

What I can not find anywhere in the documentation is how or where the alternator wires run from the ring of coils behind the flywheel to the board.
The parts manual has a picture of the coils and 3 long wires coming out of it.

Were do those wires go and what route do they take getting there?

Where do those wires attach? The wiring diagram implies that they go on the non-existant regulator.

Ken B..
--
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
 
Use this to eliminate the alternator
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=o.183025891821956&type=1

> The generator has lot of non-standard wiring. I think I have found most
> of it. The last (I hoped) problem was would not start for either start
> switch. It would crank. I found a damaged molex connector pin and
> repaired that after a couple of hours of diagnosis time. Then it would not
> stop.
> I found a wiring error at the disconnected regulator. This 1976 so the
> regulator is not necessary.
>
> I have been running 5 to 9 to get the pump and ignition running. With
> that pin repaired it would start / run and not stop. That took me several
> hours with the help of one of the airport employees to find. We have had
> just about every friend and airport employee over there including the
> airport
> manager over there helping.
>
> Now we have the start and immediately stop issue, which is indicative of
> no alternator (30VAC) to the board or oil pressure. I was probing pin 8 to
> pin 11 and found the 30VAC missing and blew the last fuse that I had.
>
> So off to the store to buy some more fuses. By the time I got back it was
> dark and starting to rain. So we quit for the night.
>
> What I can not find anywhere in the documentation is how or where the
> alternator wires run from the ring of coils behind the flywheel to the
> board.
> The parts manual has a picture of the coils and 3 long wires coming out of
> it.
>
> Were do those wires go and what route do they take getting there?
>
> Where do those wires attach? The wiring diagram implies that they go on
> the non-existant regulator.
>
> Ken B..
> --
> Ken Burton - N9KB
> 76 Palm Beach
> Hebron, Indiana
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
--
Gene Fisher -- 74-23,77PB/ore/ca
“Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today --- give him a URL and
-------
http://bdub.net/gmcmotorhome.info/
Alternator Protection Cable
http://bdub.net/gmcmotorhome.info/APC.html
 
Ken, one of the wires goes to regulator fast on connector and then goes to the board ,
The other goes direct to the board. Did not know that there was a third wire.
Sent from my iPad

>
> Use this to eliminate the alternator
> https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=o.183025891821956&type=1
>
>

>>
>> The generator has lot of non-standard wiring. I think I have found most
>> of it. The last (I hoped) problem was would not start for either start
>> switch. It would crank. I found a damaged molex connector pin and
>> repaired that after a couple of hours of diagnosis time. Then it would not
>> stop.
>> I found a wiring error at the disconnected regulator. This 1976 so the
>> regulator is not necessary.
>>
>> I have been running 5 to 9 to get the pump and ignition running. With
>> that pin repaired it would start / run and not stop. That took me several
>> hours with the help of one of the airport employees to find. We have had
>> just about every friend and airport employee over there including the
>> airport
>> manager over there helping.
>>
>> Now we have the start and immediately stop issue, which is indicative of
>> no alternator (30VAC) to the board or oil pressure. I was probing pin 8 to
>> pin 11 and found the 30VAC missing and blew the last fuse that I had.
>>
>> So off to the store to buy some more fuses. By the time I got back it was
>> dark and starting to rain. So we quit for the night.
>>
>> What I can not find anywhere in the documentation is how or where the
>> alternator wires run from the ring of coils behind the flywheel to the
>> board.
>> The parts manual has a picture of the coils and 3 long wires coming out of
>> it.
>>
>> Were do those wires go and what route do they take getting there?
>>
>> Where do those wires attach? The wiring diagram implies that they go on
>> the non-existant regulator.
>>
>> Ken B..
>> --
>> Ken Burton - N9KB
>> 76 Palm Beach
>> Hebron, Indiana
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>>
> --
> Gene Fisher -- 74-23,77PB/ore/ca
> “Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today --- give him a URL and
> -------
> http://bdub.net/gmcmotorhome.info/
> Alternator Protection Cable
> http://bdub.net/gmcmotorhome.info/APC.html
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
 
> Use this to eliminate the alternator
> https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=o.183025891821956&type=1
> --
> Gene Fisher -- 74-23,77PB/ore/ca
> "Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today --- give him a URL and

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--
Matt & Mary Colie - '73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan
OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit
 
> The generator has lot of non-standard wiring.
> What I can not find anywhere in the documentation is how or where the alternator wires run from the ring of coils behind the flywheel to the
> board. The parts manual has a picture of the coils and 3 long wires coming out of it.
>
> Were do those wires go and what route do they take getting there?
>
> Where do those wires attach? The wiring diagram implies that they go on the non-existant regulator.
>
> Ken B..

Ken,

On the machines I remember, the flywheel alternator comes out on top and goes to the charging regulator (that is missing). I recently ran into one
that I could not find this wire because it routed along the oil filter side of the engine to join the same lead it would have joined at the regulator,
but at the control board. This one had problems because that joint was done with a wire nut. We did an solder and heat shrink job on it.

I would like you to think I instantly recognized the problem and did not have to take off the flywheel to trace where its output went.

Matt
--
Matt & Mary Colie - '73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan
OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit
 
You do need the regulator for the Onan. When you are starting the alternator provides power through the regulator to the coil, fuel pump, and fuel
valve. When it puts out enough voltage it fires up and stays running. With the jumper you can run directly from the battery, and as long as your
converter is working the battery will stay charged. If your regulator is missing that is an issue. I suggest you find a used one ( I believe David
Orders has as spare and you can get ahold of him through the Facebook groups). I recently had similar issues and did a long series of postings for
the Onan in the gmcmhphotos.com site under "RoadWarrior". I know my control board is not standard, but it is just a much simpler board version ( no, I
have no idea where it came from).

You will probably find this article useful as well: http://www.usa-ontheroad.com/onan-6kw-generator-repair.html
 
John
You don’t need the regulator unless you are using a dedicated battery just for the Onan. I have not had one on mine in many years. You just have to make sure that the two wires that go to one of the regulator terminals are still connected together.
Many, many GMC owners have removed the regulator. It was only needed for the early models that had had a separate battery for the Onan. Most start their Onan from the house battery bank.

Emery Stora
77 Kingsley
Frederick, CO

>
> You do need the regulator for the Onan. When you are starting the alternator provides power through the regulator to the coil, fuel pump, and fuel
> valve. When it puts out enough voltage it fires up and stays running. With the jumper you can run directly from the battery, and as long as your
> converter is working the battery will stay charged. If your regulator is missing that is an issue. I suggest you find a used one ( I believe David
> Orders has as spare and you can get ahold of him through the Facebook groups). I recently had similar issues and did a long series of postings for
> the Onan in the gmcmhphotos.com site under "RoadWarrior". I know my control board is not standard, but it is just a much simpler board version ( no, I
> have no idea where it came from).
>
> You will probably find this article useful as well: http://www.usa-ontheroad.com/onan-6kw-generator-repair.html
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
 
>
> On the machines I remember, the flywheel alternator comes out on top and goes to the charging regulator (that is missing).

On a 6kw there will be four wires coming out between the starter and oil pan and originating on the flywheel side of the engine. These are:

1. One goes to the low-current terminal on the side of K1 to drive the choke pull-off during starting.

2. One goes through the Molex and lands on pin 12 of the control board for LOP function.

3. One from the flywheel alternator goes to the high-current, always hot side of K1 that is essentially battery +

4. The other one from the flywheel alternator comes up beside the control panel, crosses over the top of the generator assembly and would have attached to VR1. At the former location of VR1 this wire is tee’d and the other side of the tee returns back across the alternator, goes down beside the control panel and through the Molex and lands on the control board pin 8. This means that there is just a pair of unattached wires tied together and insulated near where VR1 would have been.

The flywheel alternator is called G1 on the control board schematic and it shows where one side is electrically battery + and the other is control board pin 8. The catch is that the latter wire crosses over top of the generator section and would have fed VR1 before coming back to pin 8.

Jim Miller
1977 Eleganza
1977 Royale
Hamilton, OH
 
> You do need the regulator for the Onan.

The regulator is not used on coaches that did not have dedicated Onan starting batteries and was removed from these models before they left the factory.

> When you are starting the alternator provides power through the regulator to the coil, fuel pump, and fuel valve. When it puts out enough voltage it fires up and stays running

The alternator provides the power to the coil of K2 to latch the coil/pump/valve via pin 8 on the control board _only_. The regulator - if used - piggybacks off this same line for its source of AC to charge the starting battery.

—Jim

Jim Miller
1977 Eleganza
1977 Royale
Hamilton, OH
 
Jim
I really don't think the regulators were removed by the factory.
My 1977 Kingsley still had it on and so did many other Obama on GMC s that I have removed them from.

Emery Stora

>

>>
>> You do need the regulator for the Onan.
>
> The regulator is not used on coaches that did not have dedicated Onan starting batteries and was removed from these models before they left the factory.
>
>> When you are starting the alternator provides power through the regulator to the coil, fuel pump, and fuel valve. When it puts out enough voltage it fires up and stays running
>
> The alternator provides the power to the coil of K2 to latch the coil/pump/valve via pin 8 on the control board _only_. The regulator - if used - piggybacks off this same line for its source of AC to charge the starting battery.
>
> —Jim
>
> Jim Miller
> 1977 Eleganza
> 1977 Royale
> Hamilton, OH
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
 
I don't know how the spell checker put Obama into that message. I thought we got rid of him!

Emery Stora

>

>>
>> You do need the regulator for the Onan.
>
> The regulator is not used on coaches that did not have dedicated Onan starting batteries and was removed from these models before they left the factory.
>
>> When you are starting the alternator provides power through the regulator to the coil, fuel pump, and fuel valve. When it puts out enough voltage it fires up and stays running
>
> The alternator provides the power to the coil of K2 to latch the coil/pump/valve via pin 8 on the control board _only_. The regulator - if used - piggybacks off this same line for its source of AC to charge the starting battery.
>
> —Jim
>
> Jim Miller
> 1977 Eleganza
> 1977 Royale
> Hamilton, OH
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
 
> JimI really don't think the regulators were removed by the factory. My 1977 Kingsley still had it on and so did many other Obama on GMC s that I have removed them from.

Hi Emery,
That’s pretty comical about your spell checker changing Onan to Obama. I believe the spell checker on my Apple products get more and more aggressive as time goes by.

There have been many Onans through the Miller Compound over the years for rallies and one at a time for individual repairs. I don’t think I’ve ever seen a vestigial regulator on a coach that had no dedicated starting battery.

—Jim

Jim Miller
1977 Eleganza
1977 Royale
Hamilton, OH
 
> http://lqqkatjon.blogspot.com/2017/08/onan.html?m=1
>
> Here is emery's diagram for non-facebook people.
> --

there is no south thing
Take careful aim at your foot
There 5,000 gmc photos there

>
> Jon Roche
> 75 palm beach
> St. Cloud, MN
> http://lqqkatjon.blogspot.com/
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
--
Gene Fisher -- 74-23,77PB/ore/ca
“Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today --- give him a URL and
-------
http://bdub.net/gmcmotorhome.info/
Alternator Protection Cable
http://bdub.net/gmcmotorhome.info/APC.html
 
That is not my diagram

Emery Stora

>

>>
>> http://lqqkatjon.blogspot.com/2017/08/onan.html?m=1
>>
>> Here is emery's diagram for non-facebook people.
>> --
>
> there is no south thing
> Take careful aim at your foot
> There 5,000 gmc photos there
>
>>
>> Jon Roche
>> 75 palm beach
>> St. Cloud, MN
>> http://lqqkatjon.blogspot.com/
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>>
> --
> Gene Fisher -- 74-23,77PB/ore/ca
> “Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today --- give him a URL and
> -------
> http://bdub.net/gmcmotorhome.info/
> Alternator Protection Cable
> http://bdub.net/gmcmotorhome.info/APC.html
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
 
Gene,

I don't Facebook!

Regards,
Rob


-----Original Message-----
From: Gmclist [mailto:gmclist-bounces] On Behalf Of gene Fisher
Sent: Monday, August 28, 2017 6:50 AM
To: gmclist
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] OK, next Onan question

> http://lqqkatjon.blogspot.com/2017/08/onan.html?m=1
>
> Here is emery's diagram for non-facebook people.
> --

there is no south thing
Take careful aim at your foot
There 5,000 gmc photos there

>
> Jon Roche
> 75 palm beach
> St. Cloud, MN
> http://lqqkatjon.blogspot.com/
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
--
Gene Fisher -- 74-23,77PB/ore/ca
“Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today --- give him a URL and
-------
http://bdub.net/gmcmotorhome.info/
Alternator Protection Cable
http://bdub.net/gmcmotorhome.info/APC.html
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
 
Jim,

We have two 1977 GMCs that I personally removed the voltage regulators.

Gary Kosier
77PB w/500Cad
Newark, Ohio

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Jim Miller"
Sent: Sunday, August 27, 2017 4:03 PM
To:
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] OK, next Onan question

>
>> JimI really don't think the regulators were removed by the factory. My
>> 1977 Kingsley still had it on and so did many other Obama on GMC s that I
>> have removed them from.
>
> Hi Emery,
> That’s pretty comical about your spell checker changing Onan to Obama. I
> believe the spell checker on my Apple products get more and more
> aggressive as time goes by.
>
> There have been many Onans through the Miller Compound over the years for
> rallies and one at a time for individual repairs. I don’t think I’ve ever
> seen a vestigial regulator on a coach that had no dedicated starting
> battery.
>
> —Jim
>
> Jim Miller
> 1977 Eleganza
> 1977 Royale
> Hamilton, OH
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
 
> Gene,
>
> I don't Facebook!
>


It is your foot
Shoot away

>
> Regards,
> Rob
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Gmclist [mailto:gmclist-bounces] On Behalf Of gene
> Fisher
> Sent: Monday, August 28, 2017 6:50 AM
> To: gmclist
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] OK, next Onan question
>

>
> > http://lqqkatjon.blogspot.com/2017/08/onan.html?m=1
> >
> > Here is emery's diagram for non-facebook people.
> > --
>
> there is no south thing
> Take careful aim at your foot
> There 5,000 gmc photos there
>
> >
> > Jon Roche
> > 75 palm beach
> > St. Cloud, MN
> > http://lqqkatjon.blogspot.com/
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > GMCnet mailing list
> > Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> > http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
> >
> --
> Gene Fisher -- 74-23,77PB/ore/ca
> “Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today --- give him a URL and
> -------
> http://bdub.net/gmcmotorhome.info/
> Alternator Protection Cable
> http://bdub.net/gmcmotorhome.info/APC.html
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
--
Gene Fisher -- 74-23,77PB/ore/ca
“Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today --- give him a URL and
-------
http://bdub.net/gmcmotorhome.info/
Alternator Protection Cable
http://bdub.net/gmcmotorhome.info/APC.html
 
> We have two 1977 GMCs that I personally removed the voltage regulators.

Thanks Gary.

The point that was originally being made was that:

"the VR is *not needed* on coaches where the Onan starts from the house battery”.

…regardless of whether the VR was removed by Onan, by GM, or by someone in the field.

—Jim

Jim Miller
1977 Eleganza
1977 Royale
Hamilton, OH
 
My 77 6k has the VR. I think Onan continued to ship them as complete units after the lawn tractior batt was deleted. Ken-- it''s all in that Faston
twofer that joins the wires from alternator to board, but Jim Miller explained it above to great detail.
--
John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II
 
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