OK . I officially hate carbs

B

Bob Dunahugh

New member
Sep 17, 2012
2,784
4
3
Been there. Did that. The fuels that are blended now. Are blended to be run thru high pressure injectors. Not a carb. I put a GM Howell in 4 years ago. The electronic distributor is the key to a good EFI. The GM Howell is simple to install, Never have had to do anything to it. A plug/play.
Bob Dunahugh 78 Royale since 2003
 
Did you roll your own or buy Jim Ks?
Ebl or not necessary?

So many choices
________________________________
From: Gmclist on behalf of Bob Dunahugh via Gmclist
Sent: Tuesday, June 2, 2020 1:21:09 AM
To: gmclist
Cc: Bob Dunahugh
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] OK . I officially hate carbs

Been there. Did that. The fuels that are blended now. Are blended to be run thru high pressure injectors. Not a carb. I put a GM Howell in 4 years ago. The electronic distributor is the key to a good EFI. The GM Howell is simple to install, Never have had to do anything to it. A plug/play.
Bob Dunahugh 78 Royale since 2003
_______________________________________________
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Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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FYI, our EBL comes ready with the most updated program.
You need to have the full electronic distributor control harness.
EFI w/o distributor control is not much better than a good Carberator .

On Tue, Jun 2, 2020 at 6:50 AM Keith V via Gmclist
wrote:

> Did you roll your own or buy Jim Ks?
> Ebl or not necessary?
>
> So many choices
> ________________________________
> From: Gmclist on behalf of Bob Dunahugh
> via Gmclist
> Sent: Tuesday, June 2, 2020 1:21:09 AM
> To: gmclist
> Cc: Bob Dunahugh
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] OK . I officially hate carbs
>
> Been there. Did that. The fuels that are blended now. Are blended to be
> run thru high pressure injectors. Not a carb. I put a GM Howell in 4 years
> ago. The electronic distributor is the key to a good EFI. The GM Howell is
> simple to install, Never have had to do anything to it. A plug/play.
> Bob Dunahugh 78 Royale since 2003
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Newark,CA
jimk
http://www.gmcrvparts.com
1-800-752-7502
 
Keith,

I installed Howell about 10 years ago. For several months after that I
fought an off-idle stumble. Several EPROMS from Howell, plus several from
GMC friends, I STILL had the same stumble.

I finally ordered the EBL board and soldered in myself (40 pins, IIRC) and
reinstalled the 1227747 it went in. I cranked the engine to be sure it
ran; it did, so I shut it off. The next morning we departed for a rally
100+ miles away. I've never had a stumble since, on that original 455 nor
on the current Cad500.

I personally would not consider running without EBL with all its more
modern enhancements.

Ken H.

On Tue, Jun 2, 2020 at 9:50 AM Keith V via Gmclist
wrote:

> Did you roll your own or buy Jim Ks?
> Ebl or not necessary?
>
> So many choices
> ________________________________
> From: Gmclist on behalf of Bob Dunahugh
> via Gmclist
> Sent: Tuesday, June 2, 2020 1:21:09 AM
> To: gmclist
> Cc: Bob Dunahugh
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] OK . I officially hate carbs
>
> Been there. Did that. The fuels that are blended now. Are blended to be
> run thru high pressure injectors. Not a carb. I put a GM Howell in 4 years
> ago. The electronic distributor is the key to a good EFI. The GM Howell is
> simple to install, Never have had to do anything to it. A plug/play.
> Bob Dunahugh 78 Royale since 2003
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
 
For me. There's one choice. EFI without spark control. Your leaving out a BIG part of an EFI system. Spark control is where the mileage, and performance is. With Vitec, and other such systems. We never drive these GMC's on trips within 25 miles of home. If you have a problem with the GM Howell system out in some small town. There made up of GM parts. You can walk into any small parts store. Plug their scanner in. Then get the part that you need NOW. Do that with a Vitec, and others. I just wouldn't like the idea of waiting a week or so. For mail order parts. And run the risk of not getting where you wanted to go in the first place. Put it in. In one day. Drove it about 20 miles. It learned what it needed to do. I've never touched it since I put it in 4 years ago. Keith. Call my cell. 319-521-4891 Bob Dunahugh

________________________________
From: Keith V
Sent: Tuesday, June 2, 2020 8:49 AM
To: gmclist
Cc: Bob Dunahugh
Subject: Re: OK . I officially hate carbs

Did you roll your own or buy Jim Ks?
Ebl or not necessary?

So many choices
________________________________
From: Gmclist on behalf of Bob Dunahugh via Gmclist
Sent: Tuesday, June 2, 2020 1:21:09 AM
To: gmclist
Cc: Bob Dunahugh
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] OK . I officially hate carbs

Been there. Did that. The fuels that are blended now. Are blended to be run thru high pressure injectors. Not a carb. I put a GM Howell in 4 years ago. The electronic distributor is the key to a good EFI. The GM Howell is simple to install, Never have had to do anything to it. A plug/play.
Bob Dunahugh 78 Royale since 2003
_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
 
Just to play devils advocate the Fitech system uses mostly parts counter parts as well.

The 02 sensor is a standard Bosch
The temp Sensor is a standard delco
The TPS is a standard camaro TPS sensor
The IAC valve is a standard camaro part
Fuel Pressure regulator is a standard bosch regulator
All available from any parts store and in stock.

The injectors themselves are specific to the fitech but they are always in stock and ready to be overnighted from fitech.

The holley sniper is much the same.

The computer itself is the only thing that's not replaceable quickly, but neither is the EBL board or the ECU on the Howell.

Not trying to be argumentative but at least give an informed opinion.
I put my fitech on, re-ran the fuel lines and haven't touched it once since. I also run timing control with it.

I just installed a Holley Sniper on my boat much the same, installed it let it learn and drive the boat. That's it.

On my next GMC I will do the holley sniper, it gives much more control than the Fitech using the computer software if you want to tweak it more.

> For me. There's one choice. EFI without spark control. Your leaving out a BIG part of an EFI system. Spark control is where the mileage, and
> performance is. With Vitec, and other such systems. We never drive these GMC's on trips within 25 miles of home. If you have a problem with the GM
> Howell system out in some small town. There made up of GM parts. You can walk into any small parts store. Plug their scanner in. Then get the part
> that you need NOW. Do that with a Vitec, and others. I just wouldn't like the idea of waiting a week or so. For mail order parts. And run the risk
> of not getting where you wanted to go in the first place. Put it in. In one day. Drove it about 20 miles. It learned what it needed to do. I've
> never touched it since I put it in 4 years ago. Keith. Call my cell. 319-521-4891 Bob Dunahugh
>
> ________________________________
> From: Keith V
> Sent: Tuesday, June 2, 2020 8:49 AM
> To: gmclist
> Cc: Bob Dunahugh
> Subject: Re: OK . I officially hate carbs
>
> Did you roll your own or buy Jim Ks?
> Ebl or not necessary?
>
> So many choices
> ________________________________
> From: Gmclist on behalf of Bob Dunahugh via Gmclist
> Sent: Tuesday, June 2, 2020 1:21:09 AM
> To: gmclist
> Cc: Bob Dunahugh
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] OK . I officially hate carbs
>
> Been there. Did that. The fuels that are blended now. Are blended to be run thru high pressure injectors. Not a carb. I put a GM Howell in 4
> years ago. The electronic distributor is the key to a good EFI. The GM Howell is simple to install, Never have had to do anything to it. A
> plug/play.
> Bob Dunahugh 78 Royale since 2003
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org

--
Justin Brady
http://www.thegmcrv.com/
1976 Palm Beach 455
 
A spare 1227747 ECU is generally about $25 and can be used without EBL for
backup.

Ken H.

On Tue, Jun 2, 2020 at 12:34 PM Justin Brady via Gmclist <

> Just to play devils advocate the Fitech system uses mostly parts counter
> parts as well.
>
> The 02 sensor is a standard Bosch
> The temp Sensor is a standard delco
> The TPS is a standard camaro TPS sensor
> The IAC valve is a standard camaro part
> Fuel Pressure regulator is a standard bosch regulator
> All available from any parts store and in stock.
>
> The injectors themselves are specific to the fitech but they are always in
> stock and ready to be overnighted from fitech.
>
> The holley sniper is much the same.
>
> The computer itself is the only thing that's not replaceable quickly, but
> neither is the EBL board or the ECU on the Howell.
>
> Not trying to be argumentative but at least give an informed opinion.
> I put my fitech on, re-ran the fuel lines and haven't touched it once
> since. I also run timing control with it.
>
> I just installed a Holley Sniper on my boat much the same, installed it
> let it learn and drive the boat. That's it.
>
>
> On my next GMC I will do the holley sniper, it gives much more control
> than the Fitech using the computer software if you want to tweak it more.
>
>

> > For me. There's one choice. EFI without spark control. Your leaving out
> a BIG part of an EFI system. Spark control is where the mileage, and
> > performance is. With Vitec, and other such systems. We never drive these
> GMC's on trips within 25 miles of home. If you have a problem with the GM
> > Howell system out in some small town. There made up of GM parts. You
> can walk into any small parts store. Plug their scanner in. Then get the
> part
> > that you need NOW. Do that with a Vitec, and others. I just wouldn't
> like the idea of waiting a week or so. For mail order parts. And run the
> risk
> > of not getting where you wanted to go in the first place. Put it in. In
> one day. Drove it about 20 miles. It learned what it needed to do. I've
> > never touched it since I put it in 4 years ago. Keith. Call my cell.
> 319-521-4891 Bob Dunahugh
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: Keith V
> > Sent: Tuesday, June 2, 2020 8:49 AM
> > To: gmclist
> > Cc: Bob Dunahugh
> > Subject: Re: OK . I officially hate carbs
> >
> > Did you roll your own or buy Jim Ks?
> > Ebl or not necessary?
> >
> > So many choices
> > ________________________________
> > From: Gmclist on behalf of Bob Dunahugh via Gmclist
> > Sent: Tuesday, June 2, 2020 1:21:09 AM
> > To: gmclist
> > Cc: Bob Dunahugh
> > Subject: Re: [GMCnet] OK . I officially hate carbs
> >
> > Been there. Did that. The fuels that are blended now. Are blended to be
> run thru high pressure injectors. Not a carb. I put a GM Howell in 4
> > years ago. The electronic distributor is the key to a good EFI. The GM
> Howell is simple to install, Never have had to do anything to it. A
> > plug/play.
> > Bob Dunahugh 78 Royale since 2003
> > _______________________________________________
> > GMCnet mailing list
> > Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> > http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
> > _______________________________________________
> > GMCnet mailing list
> > Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> > http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
>
> --
> Justin Brady
> http://www.thegmcrv.com/
> 1976 Palm Beach 455
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
 
A friend had a bad injector on his Sniper - Holley wouldn'd send a sensor and informed him that he needed to send back the throttle body for repair.
His option to keep using his coach is wait two weeks or buy a spare unit. That's when he started thinking about installing the EBL.
--
Bill Van Vlack
'76 Royale; Guemes Island, Washington; Twin bed, full (DS) side bath, Brazilian Redwood counter and settee tops,455, 6KW generator; new owner a/o mid
November 2015.
 
> Keith,
>
> I installed Howell about 10 years ago. For several months after that I
> fought an off-idle stumble. Several EPROMS from Howell, plus several from
> GMC friends, I STILL had the same stumble.
>
> I finally ordered the EBL board and soldered in myself (40 pins, IIRC) and
> reinstalled the 1227747 it went in. I cranked the engine to be sure it
> ran; it did, so I shut it off. The next morning we departed for a rally
> 100+ miles away. I've never had a stumble since, on that original 455 nor
> on the current Cad500.
>
> I personally would not consider running without EBL with all its more
> modern enhancements.
>
> Ken H.

Ken,
I could not agree more. I installed my Howell system in August of 2007. You better check your records as I think you did it before I did.

While the engine with the initial Howell install ran much better (no pumping the accelerator to set the choke etc.) than it did with the recently
overhauled by Cinnabar Q-Jet, it did stumble on occasion and sometimes I would get the SES light to come on. I even visited Howell to see if they
could give me a better EPROM to no avail. I ran that way for a few years and ~6,000 miles.

On the GMC EFI site, I learned about EBL and ordered a complete kit with the EBL board already installed on a 1227747. As a soldering novice (only
been doing it for ~40 years at that time), I did not want to take the job of soldering ~40 of those pins, etc. I kept the original from Howell
1227747 as a spare which I've never had to use.

During the Fall 2010 GMCMI rally, George and Randy helped me install and configure the new EBL system. As it turned out, it was simple to install but
it was nice to have someone there with me that knew what they were doing. Later, I installed a knock sensor, a computer-controlled distributor, and
an electronic spark control module. What a positive difference all of that made.

A nice feature of EBL is that if the SES light were to come on, I can use a laptop to see what is causing it to come on, rather than using a paperclip
to cause the light to flash and having to count flashes and then refer to a chart to see what the number of flashes means.

It starts right away, in fact, it starts too fast in my opinion. Consequently, I ended up installing a fuel pump on/off switch so I can run the
starter without fuel until I see oil pressure. Then I turn the pump on and it starts with oil pressure to hopefully save on wear of the engine.

What a difference! Records show that I now have 63,323 miles since. While I have had some issues with distributor wiring, the Howell + EBL has been
trouble-free. It's been years since I ran the software to monitor the engine.

I would never go back to a carburetor or the Howell system without EBL and electronic spark control.

--
Richard
76 Palm Beach
SE Michigan
www.PalmBeachGMC.com


Coop Roller Cam 455, Howell TBI + EBL, 3.42 FD, Quadra Bag, Macerator, Lenzi stuff, Manny Tranny etc.
 
Hey, Richard,

Thanks for the reminder -- I should have probably said more like "15+",
shouldn't I? What the heck -- a LONG time ago I did EBL! :-)

Stay Safe,

Ken H.

On Tue, Jun 2, 2020 at 2:39 PM RJW via Gmclist
wrote:

> > Keith,
> >
> > I installed Howell about 10 years ago. For several months after that I
> > fought an off-idle stumble. Several EPROMS from Howell, plus several
> from
> > GMC friends, I STILL had the same stumble.
> >
> > I finally ordered the EBL board and soldered in myself (40 pins, IIRC)
> and
> > reinstalled the 1227747 it went in. I cranked the engine to be sure it
> > ran; it did, so I shut it off. The next morning we departed for a rally
> > 100+ miles away. I've never had a stumble since, on that original 455
> nor
> > on the current Cad500.
> >
> > I personally would not consider running without EBL with all its more
> > modern enhancements.
> >
> > Ken H.
>
> Ken,
> I could not agree more. I installed my Howell system in August of 2007.
> You better check your records as I think you did it before I did.
> ...
>
 
> The holley sniper is much the same.
>
> The computer itself is the only thing that's not replaceable quickly, but neither is the EBL board or the ECU on the Howell.
>
> I just installed a Holley Sniper on my boat much the same, installed it let it learn and drive the boat. That's it.
>
>
> On my next GMC I will do the holley sniper, it gives much more control than the Fitech using the computer software if you want to tweak it more.

I am pondering a conversion to Holley Sniper on my GMC and I like the idea that it just bolts to a GM Quadrajet intake without adapters. Any quirks
with the Holley Sniper? Where do you mount the fuel pump, filters, regulator and return line to tank?
--
Ed Clerkin | 1974 GMC Canyon Lands 26’
 
I’m still a believer that spark control is the other half of the equation for smooth running. I believe that packaging the Howell + EBL, + electronic distributor add vastly more value than simply replacing the carb.

Larry Davick
A Mystery Machine
1976(ish) Palm Beach
Fremont, CA
Howell EFI + EBL + Electronic Distributor

>

>> The holley sniper is much the same.
>>
>> The computer itself is the only thing that's not replaceable quickly, but neither is the EBL board or the ECU on the Howell.
>>
>> I just installed a Holley Sniper on my boat much the same, installed it let it learn and drive the boat. That's it.
>>
>>
>> On my next GMC I will do the holley sniper, it gives much more control than the Fitech using the computer software if you want to tweak it more.
>
> I am pondering a conversion to Holley Sniper on my GMC and I like the idea that it just bolts to a GM Quadrajet intake without adapters. Any quirks
> with the Holley Sniper? Where do you mount the fuel pump, filters, regulator and return line to tank?
> --
> Ed Clerkin | 1974 GMC Canyon Lands 26’
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
 
Absolutely correct. The 747 GM computer has vast engineering behind it,
along with all the sensors that go with it. The EBL circuit board is icing
on the cake. You can tailor the injection to exactly do what is necessary
for your operating parameters. None of the other add on EFI systems even
come close to those capabilities.
Yes, they are easy to install. But, that is where it ends.
Jim Hupy
Salem, Oregon

On Thu, Jun 11, 2020, 4:28 PM Larry Davick via Gmclist <

> I’m still a believer that spark control is the other half of the equation
> for smooth running. I believe that packaging the Howell + EBL, +
> electronic distributor add vastly more value than simply replacing the
> carb.
>
> Larry Davick
> A Mystery Machine
> 1976(ish) Palm Beach
> Fremont, CA
> Howell EFI + EBL + Electronic Distributor
>
> > On Jun 11, 2020, at 3:49 PM, Ed Clerkin via Gmclist <

> >

> >> The holley sniper is much the same.
> >>
> >> The computer itself is the only thing that's not replaceable quickly,
> but neither is the EBL board or the ECU on the Howell.
> >>
> >> I just installed a Holley Sniper on my boat much the same, installed it
> let it learn and drive the boat. That's it.
> >>
> >>
> >> On my next GMC I will do the holley sniper, it gives much more control
> than the Fitech using the computer software if you want to tweak it more.
> >
> > I am pondering a conversion to Holley Sniper on my GMC and I like the
> idea that it just bolts to a GM Quadrajet intake without adapters. Any
> quirks
> > with the Holley Sniper? Where do you mount the fuel pump, filters,
> regulator and return line to tank?
> > --
> > Ed Clerkin | 1974 GMC Canyon Lands 26’
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > GMCnet mailing list
> > Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> > http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
 
If any components on all the throttle body unit fail, you'll not be able to
get parts as there are not enough of them out there.
Our Howell based unit with the EBL ECM uses 90% GM parts.
If you plan on driving in town, then go for it.

On Thu, Jun 11, 2020 at 4:40 PM James Hupy via Gmclist <

> Absolutely correct. The 747 GM computer has vast engineering behind it,
> along with all the sensors that go with it. The EBL circuit board is icing
> on the cake. You can tailor the injection to exactly do what is necessary
> for your operating parameters. None of the other add on EFI systems even
> come close to those capabilities.
> Yes, they are easy to install. But, that is where it ends.
> Jim Hupy
> Salem, Oregon
>
> On Thu, Jun 11, 2020, 4:28 PM Larry Davick via Gmclist <

>
> > I’m still a believer that spark control is the other half of the equation
> > for smooth running. I believe that packaging the Howell + EBL, +
> > electronic distributor add vastly more value than simply replacing the
> > carb.
> >
> > Larry Davick
> > A Mystery Machine
> > 1976(ish) Palm Beach
> > Fremont, CA
> > Howell EFI + EBL + Electronic Distributor
> >
> > > On Jun 11, 2020, at 3:49 PM, Ed Clerkin via Gmclist <

> > >

> > >> The holley sniper is much the same.
> > >>
> > >> The computer itself is the only thing that's not replaceable quickly,
> > but neither is the EBL board or the ECU on the Howell.
> > >>
> > >> I just installed a Holley Sniper on my boat much the same, installed
> it
> > let it learn and drive the boat. That's it.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> On my next GMC I will do the holley sniper, it gives much more control
> > than the Fitech using the computer software if you want to tweak it more.
> > >
> > > I am pondering a conversion to Holley Sniper on my GMC and I like the
> > idea that it just bolts to a GM Quadrajet intake without adapters. Any
> > quirks
> > > with the Holley Sniper? Where do you mount the fuel pump, filters,
> > regulator and return line to tank?
> > > --
> > > Ed Clerkin | 1974 GMC Canyon Lands 26’
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > GMCnet mailing list
> > > Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> > > http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > GMCnet mailing list
> > Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> > http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
> >
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>

--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Newark,CA
jimk
http://www.gmcrvparts.com
1-800-752-7502
 
My MSD setup works well and doesn't vapor lock. There are a couple of hiccups, tech service has been reasonable. Interestingly though, the same tech
service absolutely refuses to support my old ProJection system from another ride. I'd kind of worry they'd 'obsolete' other stuff after some while.
I am badly spoiled on good field service ever since I woke up the head of Field Service at Continental Electronics about 2A once, and apologized for
running him out of bed for what seemed a trivial problem. "You paid me when you bought the transmitter. What do you need?" That's what I want to
hear when I have a problem.

--johnny

--
Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
 
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Applied GMC
GMCMI Fall 2026 Rally

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