Oil filter

[tmsnyder]

Wix 51061 ? Is this actually the filter they put on these? That seems ridiculously tiny. They are only about 3-5/8" diameter. I was expecting a
truck size filter.

I just bought this a bit over a month ago and am just starting to dig into it. Starter was acting up, so taking that out I laughed out loud when I
saw the oil filter. Is this a joke? Reminds me of the oil filter on my lawnmower!

I may have to put a remote filter with an actual decent size filter on my to-do list.

--
Todd Snyder, Buffalo NY
1976 Eleganza II

 

[Jim Hupy]

Don't do it!
Jim Hupy

On Tue, Jun 4, 2019, 11:28 AM Todd Snyder via Gmclist <

> Wix 51061 ? Is this actually the filter they put on these? That seems
> ridiculously tiny. They are only about 3-5/8" diameter. I was expecting a
> truck size filter.
>
> I just bought this a bit over a month ago and am just starting to dig into
> it. Starter was acting up, so taking that out I laughed out loud when I
> saw the oil filter. Is this a joke? Reminds me of the oil filter on my
> lawnmower!
>
> I may have to put a remote filter with an actual decent size filter on my
> to-do list.
>
>
> --
> Todd Snyder, Buffalo NY
> 1976 Eleganza II
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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>

 

[david h. jarvis]

It only ran for 40 years with those small filters.
Now you are going to re-invent the wheel.

 

[powwerjon]

The only filter that I have been using is the WIX 51049. Note that the NAPA Gold filters are made by WIX for NAPA The 51049 filter is about the longest filter that you can fit in there.

JR Wright

>
> It only ran for 40 years with those small filters.
> Now you are going to re-invent the wheel.
>
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[jim kanomata1]

If you understand how the oil filter works and how the additional media
effect the system, you'll see that the larger filter will not do anything
negative.
It's your engine, do as you like .

On Tue, Jun 4, 2019 at 1:05 PM John Wright via Gmclist <

> The only filter that I have been using is the WIX 51049. Note that the
> NAPA Gold filters are made by WIX for NAPA The 51049 filter is about the
> longest filter that you can fit in there.
>
>
> JR Wright
> > On Jun 4, 2019, at 3:08 PM, David H. Jarvis via Gmclist <

> >
> > It only ran for 40 years with those small filters.
> > Now you are going to re-invent the wheel.
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > GMCnet mailing list
> > Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> > http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
>
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--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Newark,CA
jimk
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502

 

[john r. lebetski]

51258 Wix is all I run. I don't want a looonger filter sticking further down where it can be punctured by thrown truck tire debris shards that seem
to be everywhere. I change mine long before it becomes restricted actually as they get dirtier they filter better, until they start to restrict
flow.
--
John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II

 

[tmsnyder]

Yes, 40 years and 108,000 miles and it's on its 2nd motor at least. Could be its 3rd or 4th, who knows? With a filter like that it wouldn't surprise
me.

Explain to me how more filter area and more oil volume would be a bad thing?

Also considering the drivetrain was a compromise, a pretty good one but still a compromise, using an automobile setup b/c it was available. As an
example, did they take the time/expense to get the final drive ratio correct? The answer is 'no', the gears are too long and they never took the time
or investment to fix it. So why would anyone think that that is the perfect oil filter to go on there, and not just another compromise. It was on the
car, so good enough.

Cars back then were built to last 7 years or so at best, we are now far past their design life. Oils so important to long engine life, and we aren't
limited by the economics of trying to build one that's affordable, so why not put the best filter on that we can?

I had the oil changed when I bought it by some grease monkeys with a pit in the floor, and they've again reminded me why I never go to those places.
They put on a 4006 filter, which seems to be a fuel filter of some sort! And it was so overtightened, I ended up putting a 3/4" ratchet and chain
wrench around the filter to get the darn thing off.

What would be the potential downsides?

--
Todd Snyder, Buffalo NY
1976 Eleganza II

 

[john r. lebetski]

I don't even jack mine to do oil change. I have the front air dam so just inside drivers tire to pull plug. Reach in from behind passeger tire for
filter. Very fast. It's greasing that takes a while to wipe off all the fittings and get under there. Filters only trap particles. If there are more
particles than the filter can handle in 2-3k miles there are bigger issues.
--
John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II

 

[scott nutter1]

I also run the bigger filter. Wix 51049. And Amsoil 10-30 zrod oil. Another good idea is to put a magnet on the outside of the oil filter to hold in
place any metal that might be circulating through the oil system.
Works for me.
Scott.
--
Scott Nutter
1978 Royale Center Kitchen, Patterson 455, switch pitch tranny, 3.21 final drive, Quad bags, tankless water heater, everything Lenzi. Alex Ferrera
installed MSD Atomic EFI
Houston, Texas

 

[les burt]

Todd,
I urge you to do a search on oil filters here in this forum. The subject has previously been discussed in great detail.

Olds engines have the filter bypass incorporated into the filter mount. This means that the correct filter does not contain an internal bypass. Choosing the best filter setup for the job MIGHT make a difference. Choosing the wrong filter setup WILL make a difference. If you need more details as to why, do the search.

Les Burt
Montreal
'75 Eleganza 26'

>
> I also run the bigger filter. Wix 51049. And Amsoil 10-30 zrod oil. Another good idea is to put a magnet on the outside of the oil filter to hold in
> place any metal that might be circulating through the oil system.
> Works for me.
> Scott.
> --
> Scott Nutter
> 1978 Royale Center Kitchen, Patterson 455, switch pitch tranny, 3.21 final drive, Quad bags, tankless water heater, everything Lenzi. Alex Ferrera
> installed MSD Atomic EFI
> Houston, Texas
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org

 

[bob heller]

51061 Wix is NOT the proper filter, 51258 Wix is the correct one. If you want a larger filter then use a 51049 Wix, it's a longer version of the
51258.

I've been using the 51049 Wix for years on my original 455, it fits fine and in theory should be better because it holds more oil and has more filter
area. Like I said, "in theory". Who knows if it actually made any real difference.
--
Bob Heller
1974 X-Canyonlands 26ft
Original 455 exc for timing chain, Rockwell intake, valve covers.
Ferrara air bags. 146k miles.
Winter Springs FL

 

[Matt Colie]

Todd,

Let me tell you this secret about vehicle lube oil filters.....
You can add more lube oil filter if you choose, but it will not get you anything of value in the life of an Ols 455.
They almost don't matter after break-in. Even just after break-in, they are only good to see if the new engine is "making metal".
Most of my labs have has a special filter cutter (a very specialized can opener) and cookie sheets to lay the filter out.
Lube oil analysis works better.

So why do big truck engines have big oil filters (or two)?
Two very good reasons:
1 - Big diesel engines blow carbon particulate around the pistons. These are big enough for the filter to trap.
2 - They have a lube oil capacity in gallons (not quarts) and they like to go as long as possible before replacing it.

Then there is the fact that because diesel fuel and combustion is different than it is in a passcar engine, they do not "acidify" the lube oil as
much. That means that there is less corrosion damage from long lube oil change intervals.

I had to learn some things as a ship's engineer and a Detroit lab rat all those years.

Matt
--
Matt & Mary Colie - '73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan
OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Twixt A2 and Detroit

 

[john r. lebetski]

And as to your original question is the "Wix 51061 what they originally put on these" No is the answer because GM used AC Delco. It would have been
an AC PF30. That filter has been superseded by the PF24. The PF24 has the added anti drainback valve from the Buick application where filter sits
horizontal. The wix number that crosses to is the 51258. (Or 51049 for longer body).
--
John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II

 

[tmsnyder]

Is it this thread? http://gmc.mybirdfeeder.net/GMCforum/index.php?t=msg&th=29910&prevloaded=1&rid=0&start=20

The gmc maintenance manual quoted in the thread says that the filter base bypass valve will open at 5.3-6.3 psi. That's the max pressure loss
allowed across the filter media, not the max pressure on the filter, the max pressure drop allowed across its media. They don't want it to collapse
or blow out etc. The rest of the oil is bypassed, no filtration, straight to the bearings. It probably happens frequently when the oil is cold, and
definitely when the media in the tiny stock filter is plugged with solids.

A remote filter installed by an owner could also contain a bypass, as long as the bypass pressure is higher than 5.3-6.3psi. For instance a PH8a
bypass is set at 12psi, therefore it would never get a chance to open unless the filter base bypass fails in a closed position, which is unlikely.
The filter base bypass would open at 5.3-6.3 psi and that's the max pressure drop that the filter would ever see across its media. The filter bypass
would do no harm, actually it would be added insurance in the unlikely event that the stock filter base bypass is somehow stuck closed.

The only downside I see is that the oil is being sent outside the engine in braided lines, and it is possible that the oil lines could fail and
quickly dump all the oil on the ground. I've heard of it happening to people I know, from stock Chevy oil lines where they quick connect into stock
oil coolers on their pickup trucks. Result was a ruined engine. And I had a braided line rub against the frame and leak on my personal vehicle,
luckily I caught it in time. But if the lines are quality braided lines, and they are protected from rubbing on sharp edges, and the connections are
quality, and they are inspected periodically, then there should be no problem. Also, with a loss of oil pressure, in the event that it did happen,
it's not guaranteed to be immediately catastrophic. There's most likely going to be some time to shut it down.
--
Todd Snyder, Buffalo NY
1976 Eleganza II

 

[tmsnyder]

Thanks John, That's good info I needed. My shock at the small size filter was based on viewing the one on the coach, after having the oil changed
just before my 2000 mile recovery trip from TX to NY. Again, they have cured me of ever letting anyone else change my oil besides me. The filter
measured 3" tall and 3" in diameter. Tiny.

I picked up a STP S25 from Autozone, it cross references to the Wix 51049, and it's much bigger. Looks like almost 4" in diameter and 5" tall. The
gasket is set way inside the diameter of the can, where the one I took off was right at the outside edge.

It seems like a decent size filter, I was just tripped up by the grease monkeys in the oil change pit.
--
Todd Snyder, Buffalo NY
1976 Eleganza II

 

[CGeils]

> And as to your original question is the "Wix 51061 what they originally put on these" No is the answer because GM used AC Delco. It would have
> been an AC PF30. That filter has been superseded by the PF24. The PF24 has the added anti drainback valve from the Buick application where filter
> sits horizontal. The wix number that crosses to is the 51258. (Or 51049 for longer body).

FYI the PF24 does not supersede the PF30 because the PF24 has the added drainback valve. The PF30 is superseded by the PF61 (smaller diameter). The
PF24 is specified for Buick and Pontiac V8s.

--
Chris Geils - Twin Cities / W Wa
1978 26' Kingsley w/ very few mods; Headers, PD9040, aux trans cooler, one repaint in stock colors, R134a, Al rad, Alcoas, 53k mi

 

[jim kanomata1]

When my rt output shaft mtg plate came off in Texas and the oil filter got
severed , I lost oil.
However my Digi Panel had the oil pressure ignition switch that killed the
engine and saved the engine.
It would have been a long haul to CA.
Oh, I was going 75when it happened

On Sun, Jun 9, 2019 at 6:23 AM Todd Snyder via Gmclist <

> Thanks John, That's good info I needed. My shock at the small size
> filter was based on viewing the one on the coach, after having the oil
> changed
> just before my 2000 mile recovery trip from TX to NY. Again, they have
> cured me of ever letting anyone else change my oil besides me. The filter
> measured 3" tall and 3" in diameter. Tiny.
>
> I picked up a STP S25 from Autozone, it cross references to the Wix 51049,
> and it's much bigger. Looks like almost 4" in diameter and 5" tall. The
> gasket is set way inside the diameter of the can, where the one I took off
> was right at the outside edge.
>
> It seems like a decent size filter, I was just tripped up by the grease
> monkeys in the oil change pit.
> --
> Todd Snyder, Buffalo NY
> 1976 Eleganza II
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>
--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Newark,CA
jimk
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502

 

[jim kanomata1]

> When my rt output shaft mtg plate came off in Texas and the oil filter got
> severed , I lost oil.
> However my Digi Panel had the oil pressure ignition switch that killed the
> engine and saved the engine.
> It would have been a long haul to CA.
> Oh, I was going 75when it happened
>
> On Sun, Jun 9, 2019 at 6:23 AM Todd Snyder via Gmclist <

>
>> Thanks John, That's good info I needed. My shock at the small size
>> filter was based on viewing the one on the coach, after having the oil
>> changed
>> just before my 2000 mile recovery trip from TX to NY. Again, they have
>> cured me of ever letting anyone else change my oil besides me. The filter
>> measured 3" tall and 3" in diameter. Tiny.
>>
>> I picked up a STP S25 from Autozone, it cross references to the Wix
>> 51049, and it's much bigger. Looks like almost 4" in diameter and 5"
>> tall. The
>> gasket is set way inside the diameter of the can, where the one I took
>> off was right at the outside edge.
>>
>> It seems like a decent size filter, I was just tripped up by the grease
>> monkeys in the oil change pit.
>> --
>> Todd Snyder, Buffalo NY
>> 1976 Eleganza II
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> GMCnet mailing list
>> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
>>
> --
> Jim Kanomata
> Applied/GMC, Newark,CA
> jimk
> http://www.appliedgmc.com
> 1-800-752-7502
>
--
Jim Kanomata
Applied/GMC, Newark,CA
jimk
http://www.appliedgmc.com
1-800-752-7502