Oil Filter Sandwich Plate O-Ring

7

78gmcroyale

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Apr 2, 2015
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Good morning
I need a replacement O-Ring that goes between the engine oil filter housing and the sandwich plate. Does anyone have a part number/source? I've
tried using the rubber seal off of an oil filter but that ends up leaking.
Thanks
Ray Erspamer
 
Ray,
The information that you asked about is within this album by Rob M. and they are available at most autoparts stores. Go look for the Dorman Seal P/N 917-036 seal. They come in a pack of three and are reasonably priced at about $6.

http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/g6677-oil-filter-base-to-oil-cooler-adapter-sealing.html

JR Wright
GMC Great Laker MHC
GMC Eastern States Charter Member
GMCGL Tech Editor
GMCMI
78 GMC Buskirk 30’ Stretch
1975 GMC Avion (Under Reconstruction)
Michigan

>
> Good morning
> I need a replacement O-Ring that goes between the engine oil filter housing and the sandwich plate. Does anyone have a part number/source? I've
> tried using the rubber seal off of an oil filter but that ends up leaking.
> Thanks
> Ray Erspamer
>
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
 
Reading the info on this link is scary. It sounds like the oil will ALWAYS go through the relief and never be filtered or cooled. If this is the
case, what's the solution???

http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/455-403-engine-oil-flow-path/p53706-dorman-oil-filter-o-ri.html

This is what the one picture says....
1) By-pass valve - According to MM X-7525 the valve opens at 5.3 to 6.3 psi and returns uncooled and unfiltered oil to engine block

2) Oil cooler adapter and oil filter attachment fitting - returns cooled and filtered oil to engine.

3) Inlet from engine oil pump

When the by-pass opens the oil flow goes directly from the inlet port 3) to the by-pass valve 1) because it is the path of the least resistance (shown
by the red arrow). The path through the oil cooler adapter, lines, oil cooler; and oil filter has more resistance.
 
That i to 6 pound pressure differential bets ONLY is there is a 5 or 6 pound pressure differential between the inlet and outlet. That should only
occur if there is a clog in the filter, lines, or cooler. That bypass will save your engine from oil starvation. The only time that should occur is
if you have a very dirty filter or very thick oil.
--
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
 
> Good morning
> I need a replacement O-Ring that goes between the engine oil filter housing and the sandwich plate. Does anyone have a part number/source? I've
> tried using the rubber seal off of an oil filter but that ends up leaking.
> Thanks
> Ray Erspamer

Ray,
Buy a cheap Fram oil filter for the Olds 455. Remove the O-ring from it and use it between the filter housing and the sandwich plate. That is what
I've been using for 12 yrs. JWID

--
Larry
78 Royale w/500 Caddy
Menomonie, WI.
 
Ray,

The Toronado never had an engine oil cooler in the radiator; it did have a transmission cooler. Somewhere I have a picture of that
but since it's not relevant to this email I'm not going to take the time to find it and post it to the photo site.

It would be logical that GMC did pressure drop / flow testing of the oil flow loop which determined that the 5.3 to 6.3 was
acceptable. Oil only bypassed the oil cooler and filter when the oil was cold (good idea) or the filter was contaminated badly (also
a good idea). However, our GMC's are now 40 years old and over those forty years contamination has built up in the cooler which
would increase the pressure drop above 5.3 psi and the bypass would open. It is my contention that newly rebuilt engines fail at low
mileage because the crap from the failed engine is in the oil cooler increasing the pressure drop beyond 5.3 to 6.3 and unfiltered
oil from the newly rebuilt engine get fed back into it. I think everyone would agree that a newly rebuilt engine generates a fair
amount of contamination as everything "seats."

I will be spending 4 days at Manny's in December on my way back to Sydney to do some oil system flow / pressure drop testing to see
if my theory is correct.

Stay tuned to this channel!

Regards,
Rob M.
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
USA '77 Kingsley - TZE 267V100808

-----Original Message-----
From: Gmclist [mailto:gmclist-bounces] On Behalf Of Ray Erspamer
Sent: Saturday, October 14, 2017 10:46 AM
To: gmclist
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Oil Filter Sandwich Plate O-Ring

Reading the info on this link is scary. It sounds like the oil will ALWAYS go through the relief and never be filtered or cooled.
If this is the case, what's the solution???

http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/455-403-engine-oil-flow-path/p53706-dorman-oil-filter-o-ri.html

This is what the one picture says....
1) By-pass valve - According to MM X-7525 the valve opens at 5.3 to 6.3 psi and returns uncooled and unfiltered oil to engine block

2) Oil cooler adapter and oil filter attachment fitting - returns cooled and filtered oil to engine.

3) Inlet from engine oil pump

When the by-pass opens the oil flow goes directly from the inlet port 3) to the by-pass valve 1) because it is the path of the least
resistance (shown by the red arrow). The path through the oil cooler adapter, lines, oil cooler; and oil filter has more resistance.

_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
 
Ok, went thru this during the beginning of the summer and re-used a rubber gasket that was there. If I remember right, this gasket was more square and
seemed to fit into a channel in the flange plate. Am I remembering right? So then I guess my question is , do I just add this o-ring between the
flanges and then bolt it together with the filter stem sleeve bolt?
 
The oil filer ring works in a pinch to get you home. Pedantic Rob went into great detail to get to the bottom of this urban myth and explain the cold
flow deformation and determine the correct part to use. I'm going with his research.
--
John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II
 
If it isn't leaking, that's good enough. Rob noted long ago that the rings
he shows had taken the shape of the "more square" profile that you (and
everyone else) sees when we take it out.
bdub


-----Original Message-----
From: Gmclist [mailto:gmclist-bounces] On Behalf Of tom
geiger
Sent: Saturday, October 14, 2017 8:28 AM
To: gmclist
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Oil Filter Sandwich Plate O-Ring

Ok, went thru this during the beginning of the summer and re-used a rubber
gasket that was there. If I remember right, this gasket was more square and
seemed to fit into a channel in the flange plate. Am I remembering right? So
then I guess my question is , do I just add this o-ring between the
flanges and then bolt it together with the filter stem sleeve bolt?

_______________________________________________
GMCnet mailing list
Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
http://list.gmcnet.org/mailman/listinfo/gmclist_list.gmcnet.org
 
G'day,

Here's a link to my investigation into this subject:

http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/g6677-oil-filter-base-to-oil-cooler-adapter-sealing.html

The very last photo shows what happens to an oil filter seal over time.

Regards,
Rob M.
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
USA '77 Kingsley - TZE 267V100808

-----Original Message-----
From: Gmclist [mailto:gmclist-bounces] On Behalf Of John R. Lebetski
Sent: Saturday, October 14, 2017 9:46 PM
To: gmclist
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Oil Filter Sandwich Plate O-Ring

The oil filer ring works in a pinch to get you home. Pedantic Rob went into great detail to get to the bottom of this urban myth and
explain the cold flow deformation and determine the correct part to use. I'm going with his research.
--
John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II
 
> The oil filer ring works in a pinch to get you home. Pedantic Rob went into great detail to get to the bottom of this urban myth and explain the
> cold flow deformation and determine the correct part to use. I'm going with his research.

I used the Fram "square" O-ring for a few years and noted that when I changed oil, and took that cooler adaptor off to drain oil in the cooler, that
the "Square" gasket was always slightly deformed at one particular location and leaked just a little at that spot. At one of the Greater Midwest
Classics Rallys, I queried the great late Bob Drews about this. He said..."Well Larry, think about this a second. you've got a gasket from a filter
that is usually coated with a little oil, designed to be spun on. The oil allows that to slide as it makes contact. You are using that gasket on an
adaptor plate that is not being spun on...It is tightened in place straight on by the center bolt holding the adaptor in place, and no need to put oil
on the gasket. So don't lubricate that gasket." So, I stoped putting a thin coat of oil on that gasket and have not had a deformation or leak since.
Essentially treated it as if it were a "round" O-ring.

Just a note, a lot of people move the gasket from the oil filter that they are taking off, to the oil filter adaptor. I have found that the "Square"
O-ring on the WIX 51258 does not fit on my oil cooler adaptor. That is why I buy and use JUST the "square"O-ring from the Fram filter. Put a new
O-ring in about every 3-4 oil changes.

Just my relatively informed, off the cuff, back yard mechanic, gut level, eyeball it up and guestimate, way of doing things....that's all...
--
Larry
78 Royale w/500 Caddy
Menomonie, WI.
 
Larry,

I agree 100% with what Bob said as well as what you've been doing since it works, however, why not just use a round o-ring that is
sized properly for the groove in the first place?

I personally did not come up with the size of the o-ring; I contacted engineers at Parker Hannifin and gave them the dimensions of
the groove and they provided me with that part number.

The red silicone o-ring from Dorman also works just as the dry Fram o-ring but the Parker Hannifin o-ring is sized properly and you
wind up with a metal to metal fit.

Regards,
Rob M.
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
USA '77 Kingsley - TZE 267V100808

-----Original Message-----
From: Gmclist [mailto:gmclist-bounces] On Behalf Of Larry
Sent: Sunday, October 15, 2017 11:27 PM
To: gmclist
Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Oil Filter Sandwich Plate O-Ring

> The oil filer ring works in a pinch to get you home. Pedantic Rob went into great detail to get to the bottom of this urban myth
and explain the > cold flow deformation and determine the correct part to use. I'm going with his research.

I used the Fram "square" O-ring for a few years and noted that when I changed oil, and took that cooler adaptor off to drain oil in
the cooler, that the "Square" gasket was always slightly deformed at one particular location and leaked just a little at that spot.
At one of the Greater Midwest Classics Rallys, I queried the great late Bob Drews about this. He said..."Well Larry, think about
this a second. you've got a gasket from a filter that is usually coated with a little oil, designed to be spun on. The oil allows
that to slide as it makes contact. You are using that gasket on an adaptor plate that is not being spun on...It is tightened in
place straight on by the center bolt holding the adaptor in place, and no need to put oil on the gasket. So don't lubricate that
gasket." So, I stoped putting a thin coat of oil on that gasket and have not had a deformation or leak since.Essentially treated it
as if it were a "round" O-ring.

Just a note, a lot of people move the gasket from the oil filter that they are taking off, to the oil filter adaptor. I have found
that the "Square" O-ring on the WIX 51258 does not fit on my oil cooler adaptor. That is why I buy and use JUST the "square"O-ring
from the Fram filter. Put a new O-ring in about every 3-4 oil changes.

Just my relatively informed, off the cuff, back yard mechanic, gut level, eyeball it up and guestimate, way of doing
things....that's all...
--
Larry
78 Royale w/500 Caddy
Menomonie, WI.
 
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